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Author Topic: Oakland A's Season Tickets...no more  (Read 1721 times)
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jessie
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« on: December 09, 2004, 09:09:09 AM »

I was in line to get season tickets this year.  It was going to be my wife's birthday/christmas present to me.  I was all pumped.  22 games of Zito, Mulder, Hudson (maybe),  Chavez, Byrnes et al.  No more.  No thanks.  

My A's rep, Chris, called and left a message on my voice mail at work today asking me to call and place my order soon as they're running an early bird special and it's about to fly the coop.  I decided that what I had to say was better said in an email.

"Chris,

I won't be purchasing season tickets from the Oakland A's this year, nor will I be going to any baseball games or watching baseball on TV until I feel that there's an agreement between the owners and players that will level the playing field.

Jessie"

He replied with something like "did you feel, before the testimony of bonds and giambi was released that the players were clean? what would it take to win you back as a potential season ticket holder?"

My response was simple...

"What might change my mind?  More testing, harsher penalties.  That's it.  You couldn't give me season tickets right now for free and have me accept them.  Until Selig and Fehr sign a deal with harsher penalties, I won't be watching.  Sorry, I'm not interested in watching cheaters. "

I feel very passionate about baseball.  I cried when Cal Ripken Jr. broke Gehrig's streak.  I missed  a date with a girl to watch McGwire hit 62.  I have a baseball tatoo on my right arm.  It kept me out of trouble when I was a kid growing up in a house with just my mom who was working two jobs.  It's made me the man I am today.  I have respect for baseball.  And to see men who get paid obscene amounts of money destroy it burns me to the core.  So I've put my foot down.  I'm going to turn my back on the game I love until things are right.  Until I feel confident that the sport is clean.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 09:39:53 AM »

I like when people stick to their principles even if it means giving up something meaningful to them(I gave up tuna long ago cause of the whole netting dolphins issue).  With Sosa's corked bat questions and Bond's steroid use among others, the home run, baseball's most iconic stat, has become a joke. This MUST be addressed immediately and decisively or all baseball will have is wrestling fans- people who don't care if it's real, only that it entertains them.
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Clanwolfer
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2004, 12:15:20 PM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"
This MUST be addressed immediately and decisively or all baseball will have is wrestling fans- people who don't care if it's real, only that it entertains them.


IMO, you've hit the nail on the head better than I could.  This is what's wrong with sports today, and pandering to these people is why I can't stand most TV sports now.
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Zarkon
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2004, 12:37:57 PM »

One thing that must be noted, and Hank Aaron hit it right on the head.

Steroids do NOT help you hit home runs.  They don't help your head figure out where the pitch is and when to swing it.  All they do is make you stronger.  It makes the ball go 450 feet instead of 425.  

The thing Hank said that might impact the HR issues, though, especially with Bonds, Caminiti, et al is that it might make -recovery- time quicker, in essence making you feel younger and have higher stamina which in turn would lead to being able to swing the bat just as hard for a much longer stretch of time.

That being said, I view this to be as bad as what happened with Detroit and Indiana in basketball.
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naednek
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 01:49:39 PM »

how is it cheating, when there were no rules set in place for it, at the time of said steroids were taken.  If they done it now, yes it would be cheating.  But before that it wasn't an illegal substance yet.
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Lewpats
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2004, 03:09:00 PM »

I'm sorry when did they make steroids legal again???
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Scott
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2004, 03:54:06 PM »

Quote
So I've put my foot down. I'm going to turn my back on the game I love until things are right. Until I feel confident that the sport is clean.

Why did you wait this long?  It has been obvious for a while.  People choose to see what they want to, so why not ignore it this year too?  Not as many players will be juiced this year because of the media attention, so it'll be a much cleaner game then in years.
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Spiff
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2004, 04:16:19 PM »

Quote from: "naednek"
how is it cheating, when there were no rules set in place for it, at the time of said steroids were taken.  If they done it now, yes it would be cheating.  But before that it wasn't an illegal substance yet.


I'm sorry. You can't be serious. When did taking illegal substances not become cheating?

I say illegal, in the sense they weren't prescribed by a physician, or obtained from a pharmacy. They were given to the athletes by their "trainers" and other "associates". They cheated, and knew it. Period.

They can all kiss my ass. I lost faith in baseball when Selig became commissioner. Then, to even further sour me on the game, he actually listened to that low-life, scum sucking, lying, cheating, piece of shit Pete Rose's attempt to be reinstated. You have got to be kidding me. Shoeless Joe is still banned (there's no proof he actually tried to throw the Series, it looks like he just took the money) after almost 80 years, and someone is considering letting Pete Rose in after 15 years. Riiiiiight. Good call idiot. Selig and the current ilk in the game can bite me.

The latest news is that Donald Fehr and the players union are attempting to implement very strict anti-steroid language in the current collective bargaining agreement, with penalties for a 1st offense. That's nice, but the only reason they're doing it is because John McCain is threatening Federal Legislation on Baseball if they don't do something internally. I don't care how it's done, just do it. Get these bombers off the 'roids, and let's see what 162+ games actually does to a power hitter like Bonds. The 'roids don't help him hit more, but they do enable him to heal faster, and be healthier at the end of the year.

I am absolutely fascinated by the game of baseball. Have been since I was 4 years old. Alot of people don't really like it, but it's one of my favorite memories when I was a kid. I still remember the Major League Game of the Week. It was the ONLY game on. No WTBS, WGN and the like. If you wanted to see baseball, you had 1 game on the weekend, and the rest on radio. Great times.
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McBa1n
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2004, 04:17:54 PM »

What an admirable thing to do. Welcome to the boycott.:>

I took a TON of flack for boycotting ALL MLB properties and avoiding the Mets like the plague. My friends/family oblidged me well by allowing us to watch something other than baseball last season.

I DID break down to watch the playoffs, but you'd have to be a moron to miss a sox/yanks series.

I love Hank Aaron - he's my idol, but Hank is 100% wrong in saying steroids do not help you hit home runs.
That's a load of horsepucky... If you can maintain your swing and add force - hitting the ball farther WILL help you get some dingers when it should've been a can of corn.

The confidence and hormone rush are a HUGE part of that, also. Remember - "90% of the game is half mental".

I knew about the roids - how could you not - when Big Mac was hitting them out back when...
He was big - but NEVER like that. NEVER.
Seeing him in person with Oakland then later in St Louis was a shocker. Bonds is waaaay too obvious, as is Giambi (aka "Clay Aiken").

I don't pay to watch cheaters cheat. I pay to watch legit competition... Until that is fixed - I have no sympathy for the business that MLB has lost over the issue.

I'm just glad someone else is joining the boycott... We can show those greedy stupid sons of bitches with our wallets.
And I hope they listen. Baseball is a beautiful game that is beyond tainted now -- it's a f00kin joke.:/
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slackerjoe
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2004, 04:18:49 PM »

Hey Spiff,
You need a new handle around here. How about Grumpy Old Man?
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Yossarian
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2004, 05:05:20 PM »

Quote from: "Zarkon"

Steroids do NOT help you hit home runs.  They don't help your head figure out where the pitch is and when to swing it.  All they do is make you stronger.  It makes the ball go 450 feet instead of 425.  


wouldn't they also turn a warning track flyball into a homer?
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Spiff
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2004, 05:07:19 PM »

Quote from: "slackerjoe"
Hey Spiff,
You need a new handle around here. How about Grumpy Old Man?


Damn, am I really that bad?

I don't mean to be, it's just I see baseball going downhill, and I get aggravated. I love the game, and after watching Pete Rose lie for years about betting on the game, then come clean before he has to go to the Veterans Committee for election in the BBall HoF, I get riled up.

I'm really not grumpy at all. Just passionate. :wink:
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mb737
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2004, 05:24:47 PM »

I have a question for the bb fans that has nothing to do with steroids.

  What exactly is so bad about Pete Rose betting on games?  If he was betting on himself and then throwing them or point shaving or whatever to win money I could understand, but why exactly is it so bad for him to bet on other teams' games?  Is it like insider trading?
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Spiff
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2004, 07:36:33 PM »

Quote from: "mb737"
I have a question for the bb fans that has nothing to do with steroids.

  What exactly is so bad about Pete Rose betting on games?  If he was betting on himself and then throwing them or point shaving or whatever to win money I could understand, but why exactly is it so bad for him to bet on other teams' games?  Is it like insider trading?


mb,

In every baseball clubhouse, there is a sign that says, “If you bet on baseball, you will be banned for life”. Every clubhouse, from Rookie League to the Major leagues. There is no question regarding the penalty for breaking the rule.

The reason it’s so bad is that players have inside knowledge of the game. Injuries, who may be sitting out a day or two, pitching rotations, etc.. In Rose’s case, whose to say when he was betting on his team, he didn’t yank a starter too early, or pinch hit in situations that he normally wouldn’t, or that he didn’t have inside information about the other team’s injuries/who’s sitting/who’s playing, etc..? He had access to information (and from all accounts, he used all his sources) that noone else had. By betting on games, he brought the very integrity of baseball into question. Is he managing to win a pennant by adjusting his pitching rotation, or is he trying to win money from the bookies? Did he manage to win all the games he could, or was he really trying to ensure he won the games he had money riding on?

My biggest problem with Pete Rose is that he played all baseball fans for fools. He showed no remorse for what he had done until it was in his best interest. He says he did it because he didn’t think he’d get caught. The rub is, he did get caught. Knowing the penalty for gambling on the game, he did it anyway. Why is he any different than Shoeless Joe? Because he has more hits? That’s ridiculous. There is no evidence that supports the theory Shoeless Joe helped throw the 1919 World Series. His batting average, fielding average, and all other accounts show he was playing great. He took money, and that he admitted to. So he’s banned for life. Why not Rose? He admits he broke the “Cardinal Rule” in baseball – Don’t bet on Baseball. He should NEVER be allowed back in. Ever.

The only reason he admitted betting on the game, is because this next year is his last year to be included on the regular Hall of Fame ballot sent to the writers. If he isn’t eligible now, then his next hope of getting in the HoF is the veterans committee. The veteran’s committee has basically said that if it’s up to them, he’ll never get in. They all agree he broke a rule that should never be broken, and if the Commissioner’s office won’t enforce the ban, they’re going to be sure he never gets in the HoF. I say good for them. They’re showing more integrity than the commissioner. Add in the fact that Rose would schedule autograph signings across the street from the Hall during the induction ceremonies for other players, and I have even less sympathy for him. As far as I’m concerned, let him get into the HoF the same way other people do: with an admission ticket.


Before someone brings it up, I know that a lot of Rose memorabilia (bats, uniforms, etc) is in the Hall. I don’t have a problem with it. The Hall should acknowledge who has the most hits in the game. It’s part of history, but the person making history doesn’t have to be inducted. The two are mutually exclusive in my opinion. If Rose doesn’t like that fact, then he can remove the items he donated that commemorate the all-time hit record, and put them elsewhere. I guarantee you he’ll never do it, his ego is too big.

Sorry for the long response, but this issue is very personal to me. He sacrificed the integrity of a game that almost every little kid grows up dreaming about playing, for his own personal gain. I can’t ever forget that.
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naednek
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2004, 03:59:46 AM »

Quote from: "Spiff"
Quote from: "naednek"
how is it cheating, when there were no rules set in place for it, at the time of said steroids were taken.  If they done it now, yes it would be cheating.  But before that it wasn't an illegal substance yet.


I'm sorry. You can't be serious. When did taking illegal substances not become cheating?

I say illegal, in the sense they weren't prescribed by a physician, or obtained from a pharmacy. They were given to the athletes by their "trainers" and other "associates". They cheated, and knew it. Period.

They can all kiss my ass. I lost faith in baseball when Selig became commissioner. Then, to even further sour me on the game, he actually listened to that low-life, scum sucking, lying, cheating, piece of shit Pete Rose's attempt to be reinstated. You have got to be kidding me. Shoeless Joe is still banned (there's no proof he actually tried to throw the Series, it looks like he just took the money) after almost 80 years, and someone is considering letting Pete Rose in after 15 years. Riiiiiight. Good call idiot. Selig and the current ilk in the game can bite me.

The latest news is that Donald Fehr and the players union are attempting to implement very strict anti-steroid language in the current collective bargaining agreement, with penalties for a 1st offense. That's nice, but the only reason they're doing it is because John McCain is threatening Federal Legislation on Baseball if they don't do something internally. I don't care how it's done, just do it. Get these bombers off the 'roids, and let's see what 162+ games actually does to a power hitter like Bonds. The 'roids don't help him hit more, but they do enable him to heal faster, and be healthier at the end of the year.

I am absolutely fascinated by the game of baseball. Have been since I was 4 years old. Alot of people don't really like it, but it's one of my favorite memories when I was a kid. I still remember the Major League Game of the Week. It was the ONLY game on. No WTBS, WGN and the like. If you wanted to see baseball, you had 1 game on the weekend, and the rest on radio. Great times.


I think I may have heard something incorrectly on the radio.  I thought I heard one of the sports casters say that back when they supposedly used steroids, it wasn't illegal at the time.
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jessie
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2004, 04:37:12 AM »

yes, when giambi started using, back in the 2000 season, the steroids rules weren't in effect.  i think this is around the same time that sheffield bonds and the others started using as well.

mcgwire was using andro back in 1998 and admitted to it, but no one ever said a thing then because there were no rules against it in baseball, even though it was a banned substance in the olympics and other sports.
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Spiff
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2004, 05:49:12 AM »

Quote from: "naednek"
Quote from: "Spiff"
Quote from: "naednek"
how is it cheating, when there were no rules set in place for it, at the time of said steroids were taken.  If they done it now, yes it would be cheating.  But before that it wasn't an illegal substance yet.


I'm sorry. You can't be serious. When did taking illegal substances not become cheating?

I say illegal, in the sense they weren't prescribed by a physician, or obtained from a pharmacy. They were given to the athletes by their "trainers" and other "associates". They cheated, and knew it. Period.

They can all kiss my ass. I lost faith in baseball when Selig became commissioner. Then, to even further sour me on the game, he actually listened to that low-life, scum sucking, lying, cheating, piece of shit Pete Rose's attempt to be reinstated. You have got to be kidding me. Shoeless Joe is still banned (there's no proof he actually tried to throw the Series, it looks like he just took the money) after almost 80 years, and someone is considering letting Pete Rose in after 15 years. Riiiiiight. Good call idiot. Selig and the current ilk in the game can bite me.

The latest news is that Donald Fehr and the players union are attempting to implement very strict anti-steroid language in the current collective bargaining agreement, with penalties for a 1st offense. That's nice, but the only reason they're doing it is because John McCain is threatening Federal Legislation on Baseball if they don't do something internally. I don't care how it's done, just do it. Get these bombers off the 'roids, and let's see what 162+ games actually does to a power hitter like Bonds. The 'roids don't help him hit more, but they do enable him to heal faster, and be healthier at the end of the year.

I am absolutely fascinated by the game of baseball. Have been since I was 4 years old. Alot of people don't really like it, but it's one of my favorite memories when I was a kid. I still remember the Major League Game of the Week. It was the ONLY game on. No WTBS, WGN and the like. If you wanted to see baseball, you had 1 game on the weekend, and the rest on radio. Great times.


I think I may have heard something incorrectly on the radio.  I thought I heard one of the sports casters say that back when they supposedly used steroids, it wasn't illegal at the time.


The rule itself wasn't in place in 2000, but taking steroids the way the players were, via a black market, was against the law. They weren't using them for a legitimate medical problem, they were using them to enhance themselves above what their bodies were naturally capable of.
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