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Author Topic: NRA Blames Video Games For School Shootings  (Read 2204 times)
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DarkEL
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« on: December 22, 2012, 04:19:12 AM »

http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/the-nra-blames-video-games-for-school-shootings-sigh/

So apparently we're all ticking time bombs and of course they propose that the only solution is more guns
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2012, 04:25:39 AM »

I am shocked and surprised that they would even suggest such a thing!
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2012, 10:20:04 AM »

I was reading about this earlier(and i had the TV on when they made the speech,but was half and half paying attention)

Video Games,Movies and Media they are blaming...i was actually glad that video games were not on their own for once


The world really has ended if i find myself agreeing with Michael Moore
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Michael Moore called it the "most deranged, delusional 'press conference' I've ever seen."


I am actually more surprised that he did not mention Call of Duty in his list of games,that's usually the first one they round up on when video games keep getting bad press

I can see it now,law will be passed where you can own as many guns as you like,but only one violent video game Tongue
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2012, 10:27:21 AM »

The NRA are really scared this time, eh?
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2012, 03:23:03 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on December 22, 2012, 10:27:21 AM

The NRA are really scared this time, eh?

That was my take, too.  They really seem to be scrambling.
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2012, 07:11:52 PM »

The ironic thing is, if they were really for responsible gun ownership, that they'd be open to compromise for anything new to be drawn up. Instead, their finger pointing feels childish and desperate. A good compromise doesn't need to feel like a punishment for those who own guns.
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2012, 08:32:34 PM »

I think they were hoping the world would really end and they wouldn't have to actually hold the press conference biggrin
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2012, 02:20:17 AM »

On the day when memorials and moments of silence were being held across the nation, the ringing of the bells for the children and teachers, the NRA chose to break their silence with an insane press conference.  Their message was so f'ng crazy, I think it actually may have helped the efforts for more responsible gun laws.  I just can't believe that someone ok'd that speech.  It makes the NRA leadership seem like they are fringe nutjobs.

I served in the military and have owned guns for all of my adult life, but even I know that something needs to change.
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2012, 03:13:00 AM »

Moments like these are exactly why I am no longer an NRA member.  I am so far out of touch with what they believe in already, and this just confirms that they are out of touch with my beliefs. 
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 03:51:01 AM »

Message understood: Guns don't kill people. Videogames make people kill people with guns.
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2012, 05:34:57 AM »

How come no one is talking about mental health and the steady decline in the numbers of folks institutionalized who actually should be institutionalized.  This kid is one of them and he is not the one who owned the guns.  Why not the discussion about responsible parenting???  Leaving a mentally unstable individual home alone with access to guns????  Yet somehow it is the gun's fault.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 08:57:44 AM »

Quote from: theohall on December 23, 2012, 05:34:57 AM

How come no one is talking about mental health and the steady decline in the numbers of folks institutionalized who actually should be institutionalized.  This kid is one of them and he is not the one who owned the guns.  Why not the discussion about responsible parenting???  Leaving a mentally unstable individual home alone with access to guns????  Yet somehow it is the gun's fault.   Roll Eyes

Because most people are smart enough to spot a derail when they see one. Mental health is important, but in this case it's mostly an attempt by the gun wing to steer attention away from the real problem.

Someone made a nifty little image that illustrates the problem rather nicely:

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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2012, 10:13:26 AM »

No doubt mental health is an important issue and it doesn't surprise me in the least that theohall thinks institutionalization is the solution. Better health care for those who can't afford it, access to proper drugs and paid for counselling would go a lot further than locking up thousands in insane asylums.
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2012, 11:55:40 AM »

I actually kinda like the phrase someone I should remember who is said "An armed society is a polite society", but I think guns are perhaps a bit too efficient for it to work. Why not allow people to wear swords instead, and ban guns?

You would have your personal weapon freedom (although restricted), can defend yourself, but the ability to cause others harm have been minimized.

I also think it would look immensely cool...
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2012, 12:02:12 PM »

Quote from: theohall on December 23, 2012, 05:34:57 AM

How come no one is talking about mental health and the steady decline in the numbers of folks institutionalized who actually should be institutionalized.  This kid is one of them.....


I just spent a good ten minutes trying to find a source for your assertion and failed.  Can you please link us to evidence of the medical diagnosis you're talking about?

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2012, 03:40:34 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on December 23, 2012, 12:02:12 PM

Quote from: theohall on December 23, 2012, 05:34:57 AM

How come no one is talking about mental health and the steady decline in the numbers of folks institutionalized who actually should be institutionalized.  This kid is one of them.....


I just spent a good ten minutes trying to find a source for your assertion and failed.  Can you please link us to evidence of the medical diagnosis you're talking about?

-Autistic Angel

I don't know about on a national level, but locally for me it has declined significantly. There used to be several "homes" that while not technically insane asylums, did act as institutions where people could live who had mental health problems. Now all of those homes are gone, due to a cut in funding. And all we have left are Mental health facilities that are very limited in what they can do for people who don't fall into the severely mentally disabled label. This also means that a mentally unsound person is much less likely to be properly diagnosed, much less treated. It's a real problem where I live, and one that I deal with through my work.

Again this is locally, I can't say what is happening on a national level.
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2012, 04:41:41 PM »

Just pointing out that the kid wasn't left home alone. He killed his mother with her guns then went to school.

I don't think bad parenting enters into it.  Also, read this article.

And many people are in fact talking about mental health instead of guns.  As Tilt pointed ut, though, this thread is about the NRA, so of course the talk is about guns.
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« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2012, 04:47:23 PM »

Sorry for the confusion: I was referring specifically to theohall's claim that Adam Lanza should have been institutionalized at some point prior to the shooting.  I cannot find any evidence to back him up on that, and according to this article dated just three days ago:

Quote from: Slate.com
And even if we could know all the disturbing details of a killer’s psychiatric history—as we know some of the details about James Holmes, who killed 12 people in an Aurora, Colo. movie theater—it still wouldn’t likely help anyone prevent a future crime from happening. These cases are outliers, hardly typical. Unless a psych patient literally tells you of a homicidal plan that he intends to act on, it is often impossible to predict who is actually a threat and who isn’t. Many psychiatric experts have said that this shooting represents a deficiency in our mental health care system, but though we certainly have such deficiencies, it hasn’t been shown that Lanza was resisting treatment or even that if he was being treated properly, he wouldn’t have committed the murders.


This means one of the following:

a) theohall knows something about the case that I do not, which is very possible;

b) he knows something about Adam Lanza which has not yet come to light; or,

c) he has some interesting ideas about the relationship between psychiatrists and psychics.

I have responses teed up for all three, mostly centering on how the NRA's strident opposition to closing the "Gun Show Loophole" makes mental status a non-issue in obtaining a firearm, but I'm curious to see if he's arguing in good faith first.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 11:36:25 PM »

If videogames cause violence, half of this forum would be in the NFL.  Children without active parents are the ones setting pets on fire and bullying children into killing themselves.  Who can we blame for that?
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2012, 11:07:57 AM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 23, 2012, 11:36:25 PM

If videogames cause violence, half of this forum would be in the NFL.


Am i missing something or does NFL stand for something else now in the U.S.?

(Or has there been a lot of violence in the National Football League recently?)


EDIT: I am seeing on the news that Piers Morgan has some 30,000 signatures to deport him after his views on gun control(Apparently these  petitions take 25,000 signatures to get a response from The White House),which made me smile

But,yeah,please keep him as we don't want him back!!



EDIT 2: I am hearing that there has been another shooting in Webster,New York State,two fire fighters have been killed by an automatic weapon after being called to a house fire(Gunman may still be at large) and two are injured

It's obviously very early so i am sure details will change but devastating for the Fire Fighters who lost their lives this way
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2012, 09:50:20 PM »

BBC is saying that two firefighters are dead and another two are injured. Gunman appears to have shot himself. He has a sister that is unaccounted for and feared to have been in the fire. No mention of anyone else being injured or killed in the fire.
They also state that there were two officers killed on Monday, one inTexas and the other in Wisconsin, while on patrol.
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2012, 10:54:51 PM »

Which raises the number of law enforcement killed by gunfire this year to 47.
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2012, 11:57:13 PM »

If only those firefighters had carried automatic rifles, this tragedy could have been averted.

Roll Eyes
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« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2012, 12:29:18 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on December 24, 2012, 11:57:13 PM

If only those firefighters had carried automatic rifles, this tragedy could have been averted.

Roll Eyes

You know I am as liberal as the next man and I strongly support the 2nd Amendment, but saying that restricting some guns is a logical step.
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« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2012, 01:24:44 AM »

Automatic weapons are already highly regulated and restricted. And in most situations, the rate of fire and damage caused between a semi-auto "assault" rifle and a semi auto pistol are negligible.
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« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2012, 01:33:45 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on December 25, 2012, 01:24:44 AM

Automatic weapons are already highly regulated and restricted. And in most situations, the rate of fire and damage caused between a semi-auto "assault" rifle and a semi auto pistol are negligible.

but how hard is it to turn a semi auto into a full auto?  someone once told me it was easy, but I've never researched it so I took it with a grain of salt.
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« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2012, 01:57:06 AM »

Wouldn't know from any accurate sources. But rate of fire is rarely an issue. In a close quarters rampage, it's not the weapon selection that makes a difference.

Watch the same trained shooter operate an AR-15-type weapon and two pistols.

If you can honestly tell me there's a significant amount of damage that can be done in a short period of time based on semi-auto weapon selection, you have a more discerning eye than I do.
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« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2012, 03:12:13 AM »

This fellow was a convicted felon; he did not come by that gun legally. We need to figure out how to suppress the black market without putting onerous burdens on the overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

I'll get back to you the minute I figure out how to do that.
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« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2012, 09:39:10 AM »

I'm curious, guys - I know you take the right to carry guns seriously, but humor me and lets play make-believe for a second

What would happen, if guns were no longer allowed? Both to you personally, and to society?
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« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2012, 10:13:48 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on December 25, 2012, 03:12:13 AM

This fellow was a convicted felon; he did not come by that gun legally. We need to figure out how to suppress the black market without putting onerous burdens on the overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

The basis of your argument is wrong, at least from a non-American's point of view. Get weapons intended for killing humans away from the public. Period. No access to those kinds of weapons will also severely limit the black market, though not immediately. Just look at Europe and how hard it is to find guns in most countries there. Ask a Scandinavian where he'd go to buy a pistol, legal or not, and you'll get a blank stare. Tell him he'll have a pistol for free, legally, and he'll refuse. Guns aren't glorified here, nor are they wanted. It's an attitude thing, and while the US won't be able to change that kind of thing overnight, change always has to begin somewhere.

I keep seeing the same argument pop up in these forums for all kinds of political issues. The argument is always a variant of "this is too ingrained in our culture. It can never be changed". That's just plain ignorant and wrong. As long as there is commitment to change, change will happen. It never happens quickly, but it happens. Unwillingness to even try makes any issue spiral deeper into darkness.
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« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2012, 01:25:50 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on December 25, 2012, 01:57:06 AM

Wouldn't know from any accurate sources. But rate of fire is rarely an issue. In a close quarters rampage, it's not the weapon selection that makes a difference.

Watch the same trained shooter operate an AR-15-type weapon and two pistols.

If you can honestly tell me there's a significant amount of damage that can be done in a short period of time based on semi-auto weapon selection, you have a more discerning eye than I do.


The trained shooter in your videos is identified as Special Agent Bruce Bonsai.  I suspect he has somewhat more expertise in his craft than the perpetrators of these mass shootings, including his ability to line up targets, count his shots, and reload in a heartbeat.

A good friend of mine made a similar point when the Tuscon shooting put extended capacity magazines in the spotlight for a few days.  If an expert shooter has seven targets to hit, he said, it wouldn't much matter if he has nine bullets or thirty.  It makes a world of difference if he has nineteen targets and only hits the mark about half the time. 

Discussing the capabilities of elite marksmen isn't very illuminating when a tiny percentage of these massacres are committed by people with such a degree of training and no one, regardless of how the NRA tries to spin things, is saying that responsible gun owners are monsters.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2012, 04:32:39 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on December 25, 2012, 10:13:48 AM

The argument is always a variant of "this is too ingrained in our culture. It can never be changed". That's just plain ignorant and wrong. As long as there is commitment to change, change will happen. It never happens quickly, but it happens. Unwillingness to even try makes any issue spiral deeper into darkness.

"Ingrained in our culture" is not the same as "enshrined in our Constitution." Americans will never lose our national Wild West mentality as long as gun ownership is (literally) a God-given right.

Now to undercut my own point, we have always drawn lines over what type of guns one may own legally, and I'm not personally averse to moving that line significantly. The 2nd Amendment was a lot simpler when the most advanced personal weapons were muzzle-loading muskets. Plus some states, including my own, already have weak gun cultures and more restrictive laws. Tellingly, though, we do not have appreciably less gun violence than the permissive states do. 
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« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2012, 05:48:25 PM »

I know we are never going to get rid of guns completely, and people are correct that the second amendment provides the right to bear arms, but I have a solution:

Ban all guns, then grandfather in any technology that existed when the 2nd amendment was written. Let's see somebody slaughter 20 kids with a muzzle-loader.
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« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2012, 06:52:02 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on December 25, 2012, 04:32:39 PM

Plus some states, including my own, already have weak gun cultures and more restrictive laws. Tellingly, though, we do not have appreciably less gun violence than the permissive states do. 


State-by-state gun laws worked a lot better in, say, the 1930's when people did not have such abundant access to personal vehicles and cross-country freeways.  Today, the difficulty of quietly acquiring a firearm is measured in little more than gas money, while restrictive gun laws only come into play after law enforcement has already been engaged.

Australia had exactly the same problem back in the 90's, with gun enthusiasts simply crossing state lines in search of the fewest restrictions.  It's something they addressed in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre, passing federal legislation requiring fairly uniform gun laws across the county.  Aussies still have guns for hunting and self-defense, but their use in homicides dropped nearly 60% over the following ten years.

Make no mistake: I know America is not going to enact gun control laws similar to those in Australia, Canada, Japan, or Europe.  We are not going to enact any new gun control laws at all -- we're going to sit around chat about this short while longer, watch Republicans in congress demagog, filibuster, and vote down the most milquetoast of reforms, and meet up again the next time a mass shooting captures the national dialogue for a few days.

I'd just like to move past the part where, as TiLT points out, we have to open with a long conversation with Wayne LaPierre-types about whether Americans are simply too primal and violent to benefit from the same strategies we've seen working around the world.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2012, 07:31:19 PM »

AA, my point isn't about the skills of a shooter, trained or otherwise. The point is that there is little difference that the choice of weapon makes regarding whatever ability the shooter does have.

It's more to illustrate why a ban of a certain type of weapon frame is irrelevant to the amount of damage that a shooter can inflict.
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« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2012, 07:53:42 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on December 25, 2012, 07:31:19 PM

AA, my point isn't about the skills of a shooter, trained or otherwise. The point is that there is little difference that the choice of weapon makes regarding whatever ability the shooter does have.

It's more to illustrate why a ban of a certain type of weapon frame is irrelevant to the amount of damage that a shooter can inflict.

I agree with this to a certain extent. For hunting you won't need semi-auto or full-auto for your weapon, which means that such weapons are only suitable for killing humans. Banning automatic rifles is pointless without also banning semi-auto weapons. One makes more brutal wounds than the other, but they both kill equally well in a typical massacre situation. If a shooter has to stop and reload (or swap weapons) every time he fires, he's suddenly far, far more limited in how many people he will kill, and it becomes far less likely that he'll be able to avoid justice by shooting himself in the end.

If banning weapons is going to have any effect, it'll have to be a banning of anything more advanced than a standard hunting rifle.
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« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2012, 07:56:31 PM »

Most modern standard hunting rifles are magazine-fed semi automatics.
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« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2012, 08:23:51 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on December 25, 2012, 07:31:19 PM

AA, my point isn't about the skills of a shooter, trained or otherwise. The point is that there is little difference that the choice of weapon makes regarding whatever ability the shooter does have.

It's more to illustrate why a ban of a certain type of weapon frame is irrelevant to the amount of damage that a shooter can inflict.


Yes, and I'm saying the damage per second curves between a Colt .45 revolver, a Glock 9mm, and an M16 carbine only start to flatten out at the highest tiers of training and natural talent.

I cannot guess as to your level of skill, but if you were to place me in a soccer field with differently-sized mannequins and thirty seconds to plug as many of them as possible, I can assure you that my score would be dramatically improved by a shoulder stock, muzzle break, and a magazine large enough to forgo reloading.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2012, 08:28:47 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on December 25, 2012, 07:56:31 PM

Most modern standard hunting rifles are magazine-fed semi automatics.

That only proves that hunting rifles need to get back to the basics. I can't think of any reason why you'd need something like that for hunting. A hunter who can't fell his target in one shot deserves to get his license withdrawn due to the amount of pain and suffering the animal has to go through.

My dad used to go hunting a lot, and still does. Back in the days he used standard rifles that had to be reloaded for every shot, and he did fine. These days he no longer feels like killing the animals, but still enjoys the sport. His solution was to replace the rifle with a camera and try to snap pictures instead of firing a rifle for the sake of firing a rifle.
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« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2012, 11:41:52 PM »

AA, I'm not concerned about an open field.  Most of these incidents are at close range. Without some sort of citation or evidence, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that the weapon selection would make any difference, especially when the rampages are generally over when the gunman ends himself or law enforcement arrives.
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