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Author Topic: NHL Season 2011-2012  (Read 21468 times)
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theohall
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« Reply #480 on: February 15, 2012, 03:08:26 AM »

Quote from: gellar on February 15, 2012, 02:48:03 AM

Quote from: theohall on February 15, 2012, 02:45:01 AM

I'm just sayin'

Without the created wins via shootouts - the Wings home win streak ended at 12 games.   Not even close to the 3 70s Bruins streaks or the Flyers actual 20-game streak.

Individual scoring stats, goaltending stats - yes, they very by era - but they vary by era usually based upon skill levels, not the league inflating wins and point totals by creating wins via a glorified skills competition.

IMO, shootout wins should not count in "win" streaks.  They don't count when determining playoff standing.  They don't exist in the playoffs.  So if they don't count for those two things, why should they count as in "official" win streaks??  The league set those rules and is picking and choosing when they should and should not apply.  If more important things don't count, why should "streaks" count when a shootout is involved?

1)  OK terrific.
2)  Shootout wins award an extra point, so they certainly count when determining playoff standing.  Non shootout wins are a tiebreaker when the point totals are the same, but that's the only time they 'don't count'.
3)  Using your logic, you could argue that any goals or assists recorded in OT shouldn't count towards a players total because it would be unfair to the players whose records you are comparing them against from the previous era when there was no OT whatsoever.
4)  OK, terrific.

Wins vs individual stats are different - at least they are to me.  There was this same debate raised about "most points in a season" when they added games to the schedule and altered it to artificially inflate point totals with SO wins eliminating ties.

The Wings supposed accomplishment is crap and anyone with a reasonable knowledge of hockey history and what the 70s Bruins and Flyers accomplished compared to this current BS streak actually agrees.  Heck, most of you posting about this probably weren't even alive when those streaks happened and have no idea of their significance compared to the BS the Red Wings are doing now.
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gellar
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« Reply #481 on: February 15, 2012, 03:14:44 AM »

Most of us actually just don't give a fuck regardless, TBH.
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Devil
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« Reply #482 on: February 15, 2012, 03:26:51 AM »

I see what theo is saying, but what about the the league at those times.

If you were the best team out of 6 like the Bruins probably were, you could possibly go undefeated. You only played 5 other teams over and over again.

Expansion plays a role in this too. Teams are thinner. One or two guys can make a huge difference.

Gells - Is Helene Elliott at the airport waiting for Nash with flowers and a box of chocolates?
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gellar
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« Reply #483 on: February 15, 2012, 03:27:55 AM »

Quote from: Devil on February 15, 2012, 03:26:51 AM

Gells - Is Helene Elliott at the airport waiting for Nash with flowers and a box of chocolates?

Probably.  I genuinely cannot stand her so I don't read any of her articles or follow her on Twitter.
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pr0ner
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« Reply #484 on: February 15, 2012, 03:59:56 AM »

It's nice to see Theo bring his hilarious, irrational Red Wings hate here, too.
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Devil
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« Reply #485 on: February 15, 2012, 04:13:05 AM »

I like that about him/everyone in here. All different points of view makes it fun.

The collective hate for the Bruins and Rangers is our one common bond.

 icon_biggrin
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ScubaV
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« Reply #486 on: February 15, 2012, 04:38:25 AM »

The arguments supporting the significance of the Wings' streak involve the restrictions of the salary cap and the general increase in league-wide parity.  But I think it just boils down to theohall being jelly.   Tongue icon_smile
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theohall
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« Reply #487 on: February 15, 2012, 04:48:34 AM »

I enjoy my hatred of the Red Wings and will continue to point out that no Red Wings has been suspended or fined this regular season, in spite of several Red Wings doing things which other players have been suspended and fined for committing.  Of course, the former Red Wing Brendan Shanahan is showing absolutely no bias by not even reviewing tapes teams send to him to review of Red Wings possible infractions.   Roll Eyes  And that no Red Wings fan will even bother to admit the Wings ever seem to do anything suspension or fine worthy.   Missing calls on the ice is one thing.  Refusing to review tapes of incidents involving charging and hits to the head is something else.

It's not like Shanahan left St Louis in disgrace after screwing Craig Janney's wife or anything.  Of course, he won't have any bias in regards to St Louis.  Roll Eyes

There should be more than a single individual determining whether or not incidents should be reviewed and whether or not fines and suspensions are necessary.  Having a single individual performing this task will always lead to claims of bias - just like it did with Colin Campbell last season.

 
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Kagath
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« Reply #488 on: February 15, 2012, 05:02:28 AM »

I believe Brendan Smith got suspended at the beginning of the season.

You'll have to look it up for me.

They aren't saints. But they also don't play dirty like a few other teams.
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kratz
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« Reply #489 on: February 15, 2012, 05:29:27 AM »

On what are you basing saying that player safety doesn't review the tapes?  I'm curious if you have examples of instances where you thought suspensions were warranted for hits by Red Wings (and I'm not saying they don't exist, I may just not be aware of them.)  Like them or not, they are a REALLY clean team.  They don't fight much, they don't take a lot of penalties... it's just not part of their game.  I can think of a recent instance of Zetterberg getting a game misconduct for a boarding call... I'm sure that was reviewed, but if you watch the tape it's 1. obviously not a heavy, malicious action, and 2. it's a guy who has no reputation for dirty play whatsoever.  You think that should've been a suspension?  There are other teams that have had similar situations and no suspension as well.

They are not the only team with no regular season suspensions (and technically Brendan Smith's 8 game suspension included 5 regular season games).  The Blues have had a whopping TWO suspensions of 3 games each, so it's hard to claim some big anti-blues conspiracy.

Are you going to tell me that the two suspension hits by the Blues (both on Red Wings, which I'm sure in your mind reinforces the conspiracy) were not suspendable violations?  If you are, you are guilty of what you say no Red Wings fan will 'even bother to admit.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SX0NLOPFhI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZAF3R_j-lU

Anyway... find some instances that you think should've resulted in Red Wing suspensions and post them - let people who have no bias one way or the other evaluate them (as well as the two hits I linked above).

I won't say that the Wings never get away with anything - because every team gets away with things here and there.  It's all just hockey - it's not like the Red Wings need extra help from the officials to perform...

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gellar
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« Reply #490 on: February 15, 2012, 05:36:22 AM »

Quote from: Devil on February 15, 2012, 04:13:05 AM

The collective hate for the Bruins and Rangers is our one common bond.

Uhh... I don't mind either of those teams very much.  I have a preference for them over most EC teams.

Quote from: theohall on February 15, 2012, 04:48:34 AM

I enjoy my hatred of the Red Wings and will continue to point out that no Red Wings has been suspended or fined this regular season, in spite of several Red Wings doing things which other players have been suspended and fined for committing.

I'm pretty sure no Los Angeles King has been suspended (that I can recall) but I'm pretty sure there is no vast conspiracy to keep us at the top of the standings, because if so, whoever is working on that particular conspiracy sucks balls at it.

Quote from: Kagath on February 15, 2012, 05:02:28 AM

I believe Brendan Smith got suspended at the beginning of the season.

I believe you are correct.  For trying to decapitate a Chicago Blackhawk, if I remember correctly.
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gellar
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« Reply #491 on: February 15, 2012, 05:36:41 AM »

By the way, I fuckin hate the Red Wings and hate you for being so irrational that I actually have to defend them.
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Kagath
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« Reply #492 on: February 15, 2012, 05:46:03 AM »

Quote from: kratz on February 15, 2012, 05:29:27 AM

On what are you basing saying that player safety doesn't review the tapes?  I'm curious if you have examples of instances where you thought suspensions were warranted for hits by Red Wings (and I'm not saying they don't exist, I may just not be aware of them.)  Like them or not, they are a REALLY clean team.  They don't fight much, they don't take a lot of penalties... it's just not part of their game.  I can think of a recent instance of Zetterberg getting a game misconduct for a boarding call... I'm sure that was reviewed, but if you watch the tape it's 1. obviously not a heavy, malicious action, and 2. it's a guy who has no reputation for dirty play whatsoever.  You think that should've been a suspension?  There are other teams that have had similar situations and no suspension as well.
That Misconduct on Zetterberg was his first. Ever. In over 630 games. So yeah, he doesn't really have a dirty playing style.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/red-wings-henrik-zetterberg-gets-1st-career-major-penalty-ejected-for-boarding-nikita-nikitin-video?urn=nhl,wp23175
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kratz
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« Reply #493 on: February 15, 2012, 05:46:46 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P2wTEidNEE

Totally a suspension worth hit in my mind (he got 8 for it, 5 of them regular season).  It's actually very similar to the hit on Abdelkader by Cole (for which Cole got 3 games).  The result was quite different (Abedelkader came back and played in the same game after being hit by Cole).
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Devil
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« Reply #494 on: February 15, 2012, 12:50:22 PM »

Quote from: theohall on February 15, 2012, 04:48:34 AM


It's not like Shanahan left St Louis in disgrace after screwing Craig Janney's wife or anything.  Of course, he won't have any bias in regards to St Louis.  Roll Eyes


Did that really happen?
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kratz
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« Reply #495 on: February 15, 2012, 12:56:21 PM »

Yeah.  Shanahan is married to Janney's ex.
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Devil
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« Reply #496 on: February 15, 2012, 01:56:55 PM »

Well, I blame Blues management for that.

Should've stayed away from him and kept Stevens.

Oh, and two words: Zid. Licky.
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pr0ner
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« Reply #497 on: February 15, 2012, 03:29:37 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 15, 2012, 05:36:22 AM

I'm pretty sure no Los Angeles King has been suspended (that I can recall) but I'm pretty sure there is no vast conspiracy to keep us at the top of the standings, because if so, whoever is working on that particular conspiracy sucks balls at it.

Well, yeah, especially when your coach is Darryl Sutter (or you just can't score).
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leo8877
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« Reply #498 on: February 15, 2012, 03:35:38 PM »

I hate the red wings too.

Not as much as Vancouver though.
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Rowdy
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« Reply #499 on: February 15, 2012, 04:30:42 PM »

Quote from: Devil on February 15, 2012, 04:13:05 AM

I like that about him/everyone in here. All different points of view makes it fun.

The collective hate for the Bruins and Rangers is our one common bond.

 icon_biggrin

Hey, I kinda like the Bruins.  I'll take the Bruins over the Canucks any day.
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kratz
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« Reply #500 on: February 15, 2012, 04:44:11 PM »

I was looking at old threads, and saw this from Nov 13th, 2009:

Quote from: kratz on November 13, 2009, 04:26:42 PM

Wings finally break into the top 8 in the West... on the back of a pretty impressive performance from Howard... maybe with some more experience he can come together nicely?  Who knows...

OMG AND HE DID!  Just thought that was funny... as was a lot of the Howard talk that season.  I was definitely not sold on the guy.
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kratz
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« Reply #501 on: February 15, 2012, 04:48:28 PM »

Then January 10th, I'd come around!

Quote from: kratz on January 10, 2010, 11:29:19 PM

Man, Jimmy Howard has made me a fan... his rebound control is scary at times, but he can dance, for sure.

That win against the Kings Thursday was all him... 51 of 52 shots stopped... the rest of the team played like garbage (with the exception maybe of Helm, who is just always going flat out... I bet he checks his girlfriend into bed).

And I still think Helm checks his girlfriend into bed.
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Kagath
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« Reply #502 on: February 15, 2012, 05:43:32 PM »

If Helm checks her what does Datsyuk do to his?
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kratz
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« Reply #503 on: February 15, 2012, 05:52:27 PM »

Quote from: Kagath on February 15, 2012, 05:43:32 PM

If Helm checks her what does Datsyuk do to his?

Undresses her. Duh.
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El-Producto
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« Reply #504 on: February 17, 2012, 02:46:45 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IF4mQ-AYY8

This little weasel is going to take someone out for good one of these days.
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« Reply #505 on: February 18, 2012, 01:11:57 AM »

Quote from: El-Producto on February 17, 2012, 02:46:45 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IF4mQ-AYY8

This little weasel is going to take someone out for good one of these days.

That was like 2 days ago. And you call yourself a Canucks fan.

Also nice to see Canucks fans aren't sore losers or anything:

Spoiler for Hiden:

That's on the church in Vancouver that Lucic goes/went to. I will say I was surprised the glass isn't broken, so maybe Canucks fans are improving.
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Devil
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« Reply #506 on: February 18, 2012, 02:36:08 AM »

The NJ/ANA OT was unbelievable.

They should keep the 4 on 4 going and scrap the stupid shootout.
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Kagath
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« Reply #507 on: February 18, 2012, 03:15:05 AM »

Sorry Preds. That was a good game though.
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theohall
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« Reply #508 on: February 18, 2012, 03:55:31 AM »

At least the Wings won in regulation this time.  slywink
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kratz
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« Reply #509 on: February 18, 2012, 05:36:25 AM »

And barely... whoo!
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El-Producto
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« Reply #510 on: February 18, 2012, 01:15:58 PM »

Quote from: Koz on February 18, 2012, 01:11:57 AM

Quote from: El-Producto on February 17, 2012, 02:46:45 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IF4mQ-AYY8

This little weasel is going to take someone out for good one of these days.

That was like 2 days ago. And you call yourself a Canucks fan.

Also nice to see Canucks fans aren't sore losers or anything:

Spoiler for Hiden:

That's on the church in Vancouver that Lucic goes/went to. I will say I was surprised the glass isn't broken, so maybe Canucks fans are improving.

I'm talking about on the ice stuff for one.

It's very unfortunate that something like that happened, but the fact that you lump all Canucks fans in with one or two sick individuals is pretty sad my friend.
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kronovan
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« Reply #511 on: February 19, 2012, 03:47:40 AM »

Quote from: El-Producto on February 18, 2012, 01:15:58 PM

Quote from: Koz on February 18, 2012, 01:11:57 AM

Quote from: El-Producto on February 17, 2012, 02:46:45 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IF4mQ-AYY8

This little weasel is going to take someone out for good one of these days.

That was like 2 days ago. And you call yourself a Canucks fan.

Also nice to see Canucks fans aren't sore losers or anything:

Spoiler for Hiden:

That's on the church in Vancouver that Lucic goes/went to. I will say I was surprised the glass isn't broken, so maybe Canucks fans are improving.

I'm talking about on the ice stuff for one.

It's very unfortunate that something like that happened, but the fact that you lump all Canucks fans in with one or two sick individuals is pretty sad my friend.

Meh, cheap shots like that don't phase me too much -I live here and know the vast majority of fans are decent, civil and never participate in these shenanigans. That said, I can't deny there's a minority of fans here that are asshats to an unfathonable degree. They're the fans that we locally call the Not-silent Minority.

The Canucks usually do a good job of deflecting the embarassment such assanine fans inflict via their gameplay. Tonight they really delivered by remaining unbeaten against the Leafs since 2003 and handing them  a 6-2 shelacking.  slywink thumbsup
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theohall
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« Reply #512 on: February 19, 2012, 04:57:16 AM »

The oh so brave Minnesota Wild down 3-0 in a game knowing they won't face the Blues again this season unless they hold on and reach the playoffs.

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kronovan
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« Reply #513 on: February 19, 2012, 05:03:45 AM »

lol, what has happened to those Wild - they definitely appear to be digging for rock bottom. And to think on December 12th they were in 1st place in the league.  eek
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« Reply #514 on: February 19, 2012, 05:42:00 AM »

The Kings have just been shut out for the 8th time this year.

I know Darryl Sutter preaches defensive responsibility first, but damn, how can a team with talent like the Kings have be so impotent offensively?
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Kagath
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« Reply #515 on: February 19, 2012, 05:56:42 AM »

Quote from: theohall on February 19, 2012, 04:57:16 AM

The oh so brave Minnesota Wild down 3-0 in a game knowing they won't face the Blues again this season unless they hold on and reach the playoffs.
Did they get anything for that?
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kratz
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« Reply #516 on: February 19, 2012, 02:42:31 PM »

What had Backes done?
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pr0ner
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« Reply #517 on: February 19, 2012, 03:54:20 PM »

Quote from: kratz on February 19, 2012, 02:42:31 PM

What had Backes done?

Hit Jared Spurgeon on a hit that looked a lot worse than it actually was.  The Wild were just retaliating what they thought was a dirty hit (and Peters REALLY overreacted there), but of course Theo couldn't share that bit of information first.
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theohall
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« Reply #518 on: February 19, 2012, 04:45:24 PM »

5 minute major, game misconduct to Peters.  Faces hearing today.

Of course, if hitting people legally was omitted - totally guilty, pr0ner.  The Wild got hit, were getting dominated, and over-reacted.

It was still cowardly by the Wild.  3 guys taking shots at one - with a vicious cross-check to the head involved.
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« Reply #519 on: February 19, 2012, 04:53:02 PM »

Quote from: theohall on February 19, 2012, 04:45:24 PM

5 minute major, game misconduct to Peters.  Faces hearing today.

Of course, if hitting people legally was omitted - totally guilty, pr0ner.  The Wild got hit, were getting dominated, and over-reacted.

It was still cowardly by the Wild.  3 guys taking shots at one - with a vicious cross-check to the head involved.

The homer hypocrisy of you coming here to post this after whining about the injustice of the penalties surrounding Chris Stewart goading Brad Stuart into a fight is striking.  Keep it up!
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