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Author Topic: NHL Season 2011-2012  (Read 20293 times)
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Devil
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« Reply #120 on: November 10, 2011, 10:30:18 PM »

Whaaaaah!

They do something we don't like!!!

Whaaaah!!!!

Try to beat them!
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« Reply #121 on: November 10, 2011, 10:37:45 PM »

It's not like Tampa Bay is 24th in Goals Against this season or anything while the Flyers are 1st in scoring. 

What a bunch of cry-babies supposedly "calling out" their opponent.  Gutless pansies is what the Flyers were.
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« Reply #122 on: November 11, 2011, 12:00:24 PM »

I thought it was funny.  Of course it would have made more sense to do it when they were up a goal, not with the score 0-0.
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« Reply #123 on: November 11, 2011, 04:49:38 PM »

Really entertaining Kings/Canucks game last night.  I thought LALONGO played pretty damn excellent for Vancouver.
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JayDee
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« Reply #124 on: November 14, 2011, 06:39:04 PM »

Will definitely NOT be missing the induction ceremony tonight! Although seeing my favourite player get inducted into the HoF makes me feel old.



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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #125 on: November 14, 2011, 06:44:44 PM »

Lucic is currently in a meeting to discuss repercussions for drilling Ryan Miller in open ice and giving him a concussion. 
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« Reply #126 on: November 14, 2011, 07:00:42 PM »

I hate saying this but a goalie that far out of his crease shouldn't expect the "protect the goalie" type Charging penalty they gave Lucic.  Hell, Miller is at the faceoff dot and plays the puck when Lucic hits him in the shoulder as Miller turns away.  If Lucic gets anything for that hit, it is a joke.

Lucic hitting Miller

I'm still trying to figure out how that is a Charge.  A) he stopped skating and glided into Miller B) he never left his feet.  The video is pretty doggone clear.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 07:03:17 PM by theohall » Logged
gellar
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« Reply #127 on: November 14, 2011, 08:11:17 PM »

Quote from: theohall on November 14, 2011, 07:00:42 PM

I hate saying this but a goalie that far out of his crease shouldn't expect the "protect the goalie" type Charging penalty they gave Lucic.  Hell, Miller is at the faceoff dot and plays the puck when Lucic hits him in the shoulder as Miller turns away.  If Lucic gets anything for that hit, it is a joke.

Lucic hitting Miller

I'm still trying to figure out how that is a Charge.  A) he stopped skating and glided into Miller B) he never left his feet.  The video is pretty doggone clear.

I believe the rule is that the goalie is to be protected, regardless of where he is on the ice. He is never fair game. We can debate the merits of this rule, of course, but it is the rule.


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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #128 on: November 14, 2011, 08:24:53 PM »

USA Today

Quote
According to NHL rules on goaltender interference: "A goalkeeper is not 'fair game' just because he is outside the goal crease. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an attacking player makes unnecessary contact with the goalkeeper. However, incidental contact will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such unnecessary contact."

Knocking him to the ice in a one-on-one open ice situation is everything that "incidental contact" isn't.  And I don't know how you figure he's just gliding into him when he extends both arms at the point of contact.  

That being said, Lucic is saying the right things, whether it's to keep himself out of trouble or because he's got the right mindset, I don't know him well enough.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 08:30:40 PM by Isgrimnur » Logged

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theohall
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« Reply #129 on: November 14, 2011, 08:47:52 PM »

Quote from: gellar on November 14, 2011, 08:11:17 PM

Quote from: theohall on November 14, 2011, 07:00:42 PM

I hate saying this but a goalie that far out of his crease shouldn't expect the "protect the goalie" type Charging penalty they gave Lucic.  Hell, Miller is at the faceoff dot and plays the puck when Lucic hits him in the shoulder as Miller turns away.  If Lucic gets anything for that hit, it is a joke.

Lucic hitting Miller

I'm still trying to figure out how that is a Charge.  A) he stopped skating and glided into Miller B) he never left his feet.  The video is pretty doggone clear.

I believe the rule is that the goalie is to be protected, regardless of where he is on the ice. He is never fair game. We can debate the merits of this rule, of course, but it is the rule.


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It sucks as a rule which is why they had to add the trapezoid things behind the goal to prevent goalies from over-playing the puck.  Something Patrick Roy did a ridiculous amount and would get "interference" calls when he was clearly just holding the damn puck.  A goalie at the faceoff dot should NOT get special consideration.

Quote
42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner.
Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A “charge” may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.
A minor, major or a major and a game misconduct shall be imposed on a player who charges a goalkeeper while the goalkeeper is within his goal crease.
A goalkeeper is not “fair game” just because he is outside the goal crease area. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an opposing player makes unnecessary contact with a goalkeeper. However, incidental contact, at the discretion of the Referee, will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact.

That last paragraph is wherein the issue lies.  Why shouldn't Lucic be able to challenge the puck at the faceoff dot?  Extending protection to goaltender's that far away from the crease is just plain dumb.  Lucic was going to the puck.  Miller skated to the puck.  Is Lucic supposed to contort himself and possibly get hurt instead of going to the puck in that situation?  What if Miller had mis-played it and Lucic actually had the chance to shoot and score, but wasn't there because he had to "avoid a goaltender" at the dad-gum faceoff dot?

I am not a Boston or Buffalo fan, but hate it when goalies do shit like this then complain.  He is at the frigging face-off dot for crying out loud.  Just like I hated it when Roy, Brodeur and others would literally hold the puck behind the net, then draw interference calls when the other team actually had the gall to try and get the puck from the goaltender.
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Devil
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« Reply #130 on: November 14, 2011, 09:07:52 PM »

Quote
Just like I hated it when Roy, Brodeur and others would literally hold the puck behind the net, then draw interference calls when the other team actually had the gall to try and get the puck from the goaltender.

Whoa - Whoa - Whoa!

Didn't think I'd let that go without a challenge, did you? Unlike most other dopes, Marty would get the puck to actually start the rush (especially on the PP) which is EXACTLY why they need to get rid of the stupid trapezoid.

He was never out there to draw penalties, could handle the puck pretty well, and start offense.

Don't lump him in with the other clowns out there!
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theohall
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« Reply #131 on: November 14, 2011, 09:09:27 PM »

Quote from: Devil on November 14, 2011, 09:07:52 PM

Quote
Just like I hated it when Roy, Brodeur and others would literally hold the puck behind the net, then draw interference calls when the other team actually had the gall to try and get the puck from the goaltender.

Whoa - Whoa - Whoa!

Didn't think I'd let that go without a challenge, did you? Unlike most other dopes, Marty would get the puck to actually start the rush (especially on the PP) which is EXACTLY why they need to get rid of the stupid trapezoid.

He was never out there to draw penalties, could handle the puck pretty well, and start offense.

Don't lump him in with the other clowns out there!

Well - he did the same crap back in the day before the trapezoid and he is one of the many goalies who helped create it.  Goalies holding the puck to start the rush is the reason the trapezoid came into play.  Those guys doing that basically created an extra defenseman on the ice who was "uncheckable."  Thus, the trapezoid to knock that crap off.
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Devil
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« Reply #132 on: November 14, 2011, 09:13:16 PM »

No. No he didn't.

He was out to move the puck, and did it pretty well.

He never really came out like Miller did.

His thing was to stop a dump in that was going around the boards as it got to the corner and pass the puck up to start the break. It had nothing to do with making stops, but was more for puck control.

Miller came out to prevent Lucic from scoring on that play. Marty would go into the corner to make a pass with nobody near him.

Very different.

It was this type of stuff - Not defensive at all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzgIl8gQ0r8
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 09:14:58 PM by Devil » Logged

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theohall
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« Reply #133 on: November 14, 2011, 09:22:24 PM »

Quote from: Devil on November 14, 2011, 09:13:16 PM

No. No he didn't.

He was out to move the puck, and did it pretty well.

He never really came out like Miller did.

His thing was to stop a dump in that was going around the boards as it got to the corner and pass the puck up to start the break. It had nothing to do with making stops, but was more for puck control.

Miller came out to prevent Lucic from scoring on that play. Marty would go into the corner to make a pass with nobody near him.

Very different.

It was this type of stuff - Not defensive at all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzgIl8gQ0r8

I'm not trying to compare Brodeur to the Miller incident.  That was just commentary on that one rules change.  And goalies "controlling the puck" was the reason for the rules change.  Did you not just say it was for "puck control" that Brodeur would handle the puck in the corner?  Again - puck control by an uncheckable player (goaltenders) creates an unfair advantage, which was the reason for the trapezoid.  It took away an opponents ability to effectively forecheck in certain situations.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #134 on: November 14, 2011, 09:22:42 PM »

No Shanaban for Lucic:

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After a thorough review of the play, including a formal disciplinary hearing Monday, Brendan Shanahan, NHL Senior Vice President of Player Safety and Hockey Operations, has decided against any further discipline to Boston forward Milan Lucic for his hit on Buffalo goalie Ryan Miller in Saturday's game at TD Garden.
 
Shanahan held a hearing with Lucic via conference call because he had specific questions he wanted to ask before making a determination on potential supplemental discipline.

"I had the hearing because I did make an initial assessment of the play as I do with all plays, but I did have some questions for Milan and I wanted to hear directly from him," Shanahan told NHL.com. "They were regarding his intent; at what point did he know there was going to be a collision; and whether or not he felt he had the time to avoid the collision. I was satisfied with his answers."
...
"The minor penalty called on the ice was the correct call," Shanahan said. "And, while it's unfortunate that Miller was hurt I saw nothing egregious about this hit that would elevate it to supplemental discipline."
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Devil
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« Reply #135 on: November 14, 2011, 10:09:27 PM »

I'm mostly kidding, theo!

There hasn't been much Devils talks so I had to jump in!

Wait until tomorrow night when the Bruins beat them though...
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« Reply #136 on: November 14, 2011, 10:13:32 PM »

No worries.  It was a boring Monday afternoon anyway.  slywink
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« Reply #137 on: November 15, 2011, 12:20:57 AM »

Most telling about the Lucic hit was the total lack of response by the Sabres. They just kind of shrugged their shoulders and kept playing. Then Boston scored 6 goals on them and they still didn't seem to care.
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theohall
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« Reply #138 on: November 15, 2011, 12:34:31 AM »

No suspension.  Good!
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Devil
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« Reply #139 on: November 15, 2011, 01:08:53 AM »

Quote from: Koz on November 15, 2011, 12:20:57 AM

Most telling about the Lucic hit was the total lack of response by the Sabres. They just kind of shrugged their shoulders and kept playing. Then Boston scored 6 goals on them and they still didn't seem to care.

Cooke. Savard.
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« Reply #140 on: November 15, 2011, 03:26:48 AM »

Quote from: Devil on November 15, 2011, 01:08:53 AM

Quote from: Koz on November 15, 2011, 12:20:57 AM

Most telling about the Lucic hit was the total lack of response by the Sabres. They just kind of shrugged their shoulders and kept playing. Then Boston scored 6 goals on them and they still didn't seem to care.

Cooke. Savard.

Huh?
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kronovan
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« Reply #141 on: November 15, 2011, 04:59:50 AM »

About all this goalie and fair game crap; can't we just  bring back the Ron Hextall days. "Look there's a warrior on the boards attacking a player with a wooden broadsword...no wait...that the Flyer's goalie!" If we had that back we could also have all those wannabe D-man goalies be fair game and pay the price without Shannabam endlessly scouring the replays.  icon_twisted
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 05:01:36 AM by kronovan » Logged
theohall
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« Reply #142 on: November 15, 2011, 12:21:55 PM »

Bring back the Billy Smith like goalies.  smile
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Devil
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« Reply #143 on: November 15, 2011, 01:39:39 PM »

Quote from: Koz on November 15, 2011, 03:26:48 AM

Quote from: Devil on November 15, 2011, 01:08:53 AM

Quote from: Koz on November 15, 2011, 12:20:57 AM

Most telling about the Lucic hit was the total lack of response by the Sabres. They just kind of shrugged their shoulders and kept playing. Then Boston scored 6 goals on them and they still didn't seem to care.

Cooke. Savard.

Huh?

Isn't that exactly what the Bruins did in the game where Cooke hit Savard?
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Koz
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« Reply #144 on: November 15, 2011, 11:06:35 PM »

Quote from: Devil on November 15, 2011, 01:39:39 PM

Quote from: Koz on November 15, 2011, 03:26:48 AM

Quote from: Devil on November 15, 2011, 01:08:53 AM

Quote from: Koz on November 15, 2011, 12:20:57 AM

Most telling about the Lucic hit was the total lack of response by the Sabres. They just kind of shrugged their shoulders and kept playing. Then Boston scored 6 goals on them and they still didn't seem to care.

Cooke. Savard.

Huh?

Isn't that exactly what the Bruins did in the game where Cooke hit Savard?

Yes?
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Devil
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« Reply #145 on: November 16, 2011, 04:02:50 AM »

Nice game, Kozzy. Couple of cheapies, no Kovy, on the road, greatest team in the history of the league? Not a bad effort.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #146 on: November 16, 2011, 09:55:46 PM »

Blues' Christ Stewart gets three games for boarding Niklas Kronwall.

Oh, and:

Quote
After learning Tuesday that roughly two-thirds of GMs would have preferred to see a suspension in the [Lucic/Miller] case, Shanahan acknowledged that his mandate had been altered.

"I think there's certainly a very heightened sensitivity to the goalies and the future of all the goalies in this league," he said. "Certainly they're not fair game. I think that players have to understand that. The general managers expressed to me the importance of all the players on the ice but also the extreme importance of the goaltender in that position.

"So I do think that's something as a message to the players around the league, if anybody does think that it's a tactic and a tactic that is a smart gamble on their part, it won't be."
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« Reply #147 on: November 16, 2011, 10:02:04 PM »

Quote from: theohall on November 15, 2011, 12:21:55 PM

Bring back the Billy Smith like goalies.  smile

Smitty was my favorite. I had season tix during the Isles dynasty years. What a great team that was!   thumbsup

Quote
His single most famous game may be his 2–0 victory in the first game of the 1983 Stanley Cup finals against the Edmonton Oilers, shutting out the likes of Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Paul Coffey, and Jari Kurri. The Islanders went on to sweep the Oilers in 4 games, with Smith allowing the Oilers only 6 goals and winning the Conn Smythe Trophy as Most Valuable Player in the Playoffs. A year later, Smith broke the record for the most Playoff victories: he led all goaltenders in playoff victories in total and in every individual year between 1980 and 1984. Then in 1985, Smith led the Islanders to win 3 straight games after being down 0–2 to the Washington Capitals, the first time such a comeback occurred in the NHL
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 10:07:42 PM by Jag » Logged
theohall
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« Reply #148 on: November 16, 2011, 11:06:02 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 16, 2011, 09:55:46 PM

Blues' Christ Stewart gets three games for boarding Niklas Kronwall.

Oh, and:

Quote
After learning Tuesday that roughly two-thirds of GMs would have preferred to see a suspension in the [Lucic/Miller] case, Shanahan acknowledged that his mandate had been altered.

"I think there's certainly a very heightened sensitivity to the goalies and the future of all the goalies in this league," he said. "Certainly they're not fair game. I think that players have to understand that. The general managers expressed to me the importance of all the players on the ice but also the extreme importance of the goaltender in that position.

"So I do think that's something as a message to the players around the league, if anybody does think that it's a tactic and a tactic that is a smart gamble on their part, it won't be."

I still think it is idiotic for a goaltender playing a puck at a faceoff dot with an attacker bearing down on the puck to expect the same protection applied around the goal, crease, and trapezoid.  I know how the rule reads, but it's stupid.  Should a goalie be able to go to the blueline and play a puck with an attacker coming at him and not expect contact???  See.  It is stupid.

The "open season on goalies" and "fair game" comments are completely idiotic.  Of course, it is not open season on goalies.  This was a specific situation that rarely happens and doesn't impact the way most goalies normally play.  I think Shanahan got it right and everyone is over-reacting.  Miller did throw an elbow at Lucic also, which is only mentioned by the Boston media and not mentioned by Miller at all.  So he KNEW the contact was coming when he went to play the puck.
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« Reply #149 on: November 16, 2011, 11:51:31 PM »

Kerry Fraser provides the funnies even in retirement: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380610

Five minute major and two game suspension needed for Lucic! Save the goalies!

Next week's Boston/Buffalo game should be interesting. I hope Thomas gets the start because you know he'll try to punch out the first guy that takes a run at him.
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« Reply #150 on: November 16, 2011, 11:57:27 PM »

My initial thought on that Stewart/Kronwall hit last night was 'Well, there goes Kronwall's season!'

I'm shocked that he wasn't concussed.  He seemed to take it in stride, saying that he didn't think Stewart meant anything malicious.
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« Reply #151 on: November 18, 2011, 04:44:22 PM »

Sharks beat up on the Wings last night.  It was looking like exactly the opposite in the 1st, then the Sharks busted it wide open in the 2nd. 
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« Reply #152 on: November 18, 2011, 05:21:25 PM »

Yeah I shut it off. Wings have been playing pretty terrible as of late. They need to start mixing up their team for next season a little I think. They rely on guys that are a little too streaky at times.
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« Reply #153 on: November 19, 2011, 08:41:28 AM »

Article about league realignment.
Quote
The NHL’s board of governors is to begin meeting on Dec. 4 and it could make a decision about realignment at that time. Change is necessary because of the relocation of the Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg last May. The move came too late to alter the current divisional alignment, meaning the new Jets inherited Atlanta’s spot in the Southeast Division of the Eastern Conference. The league vowed to make changes, but that has created headaches for just about all 30 teams. Any realignment requires approval of 20 clubs.

Talk of 4 division league, all teams playing each other twice home and home with the remaining games being played within the division and Detroit switching to the Eastern Conference with the Jets going to the Western Conference.  That last idea just makes sense.  It would be good for all if the Red Wings got to see more of Boston, Montreal, Toronto and NYR.
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Devil
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« Reply #154 on: November 19, 2011, 06:02:52 PM »

I would enjoy being in the Bruins division, but probably no chance.
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« Reply #155 on: November 19, 2011, 06:29:12 PM »

And how do you make even divisions dividing 30 teams into four divisions?  You end up with the MLB problem. 
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« Reply #156 on: November 19, 2011, 07:05:11 PM »

None of the current talk seems to even care about equal divisions.  Most of what is being said is 1) making travel as even as possible for all teams and 2) ensuring each team sees every team in the league in their building at least once per year.

so 29*2 = 58 games.  One Home, One Away against each team in the league.  Remaining 24 games are divisional play, even if it winds up uneven.

IMO - this still won't work because travel on the East Coast, where the time zone doesn't change at all, is a far cry from travel between the Central and Pacific time zones.  I don't see how they work around that travel issue even if they split the league in half.

The other problem is Phoenix.  How do they do re-alignment without knowing where Phoenix will actually go?  No one believes they will remain in Phoenix.

Will write more on this later after looking over all the teams.
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« Reply #157 on: November 20, 2011, 04:39:58 AM »

Oilers laying the smack down on the 'Hawks tonight!   eek  Picked a crappy night to bench Hall and Eberle on my fantasy team.   mad
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« Reply #158 on: November 20, 2011, 04:44:20 AM »

Really loving watching the Oilers.  If they ever get a #1 D-man, that's going to be a scary, scary team.
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« Reply #159 on: November 20, 2011, 05:03:44 AM »

If Whitney wasn't made of glass, he'd fill the role fine.  Gilbert is looking much improved this year too.  I had lots of doubts about him as even a 3 or 4 D but this year hes been handling heavy minutes, mentoring and covering for AHL players much of the time.

Wonder when Khabibulin is going to turn back into a pumpkin.  This can't last.
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