NHL Playoff Talk

[Remus West2]

How large does that stolen goal by the officials loom if this goes 7?

About as large as the one the refs took from the Stars in Game 1.

[The Meal]

If you happen to have a wife, she's inferior to mine.

At a random time last week, my wife asked me if my father flew from his Northern Michigan home or drove from his home while attending my sister's then-fiancee's bachelor party last summer.  I informed her that he drove and expressed interest in such a weird question.  "Oh, just curious."  My antennae buzzed.

While watching the closing minutes of Detroit and Dallas' game 6 this week, she hopped on her computer (also in the TV room) and inquired when the NHL would release the schedule for the Finals.  I immediately linked the two questions, despite them being asked days apart.

When she sent me an email yesterday asking if I could get some last-moment time off work, I knew the final details of the plan she was putting together.

A few years ago for my birthday (6/6/06), my wife attempted to throw a "surprise" party.  She did throw a kick-ass party, but she failed at the surprise part.  I erected the tent in the backyard for our guests before I left the house to return a few hours later to a not-quite-unexpected group of friends yelling "SURPRISE!"  I acted surprised.

It's not because she fails at putting together surprises for me that makes her better than your potential wife.  It's because she purchased tickets for the three of us to Game 5 of the Stanley Cup Finals, on Monday June 2nd.  And for good measure she purchased a fourth ticket and phoned my father and invited him to attend with us.  I related these facts to her yesterday evening, to which she at first asked who told me, and then followed up by confirming to me that I had every last detail correct.

My father was there on June 7th, 1997, sitting two rows in front of Brett and Carl Lindros, as the Wings swept Brett's brother and Carl's son in four straight games to bring Detroit it's first Stanley Cup in 41 years.  He was attending with my brother Paul, who at the time announced that he was all set for the next lifetime's worth of father's day presents.  When I phoned him this lunch period Dad said that he thought it'd be pretty cool to be there for *two* Stanley Cup close-out games in his lifetime.  /agreed.

So now I'm not only hoping for no game 7 (the family will be white water rafting the Arkansas River on Saturday June 7th this year), but now I have to root against a sweep as well.  Complicated stuff, fandom.

[Remus West2]

That is the most amazingly awesome thing I have ever heard.  I am so very very jealous.  Hopefully you folks will be in town long enough that we can have a GTG for dinner if nothing else.

[The Meal]

It's too bad that my Red Wings are destined to lose.

2007
Anaheim's total games in rounds 1 & 2: 10
Ottawa - 10
Buffalo - 11
Detroit - 12

2006
Carolina's total games in rounds 1 & 2: 11
Buffalo - 11
Anaheim - 11
Edmonton -12

2004
Tampa Bay's total games in rounds 1 & 2: 9
San Jose - 11
Philadelphia - 11
Calgary - 13

2003
New Jersey's total games in rounds 1 & 2: 10
Anaheim - 10
Ottawa - 11
Minnesota - 14

2002
Detroit's total games in rounds 1 & 2: 11
Carolina - 12
Toronto - 14
Colorado - 14

2001
Colorado's total games in rounds 1 & 2: 11
Pittsburgh - 9
St. Louis - 9
New Jersey - 13

2000
New Jersey's total games in rounds 1 & 2: 10
Dallas - 10
Colorado - 10
Philadelphia - 11

One time, seven years ago, out of the past 7 post-seasons has the Stanley Cup winner not played the fewest number of games combined in the first two rounds of the post-season.  Once.

2008
Pittsburgh's total games in rounds 1 & 2: 9
Detroit - 10
Philadelphia - 12
Dallas - 12

[Remus West2]

It's too bad that my Red Wings are destined to lose.

You are now hated and unworthy of such a spectacular wife.  Inform her that a replacement will be sent ASAP and that we apologize for sending the faulty model in the first place.  If she made any end-user modifications to her current unit please inform us and we will be happy to modify the replacement before sending.  We will also include a complete systems check to be sure this type of mental lapse does not occur again.

[The Meal]

It struck me yesterday evening that the last time I attended a Stanley Cup Finals game was in 2001, and that year was the exception to the trend my investigations had turned up.  So maybe I can save the Wings this year.

[rshetts2]

All that your trend implies to me, Meal is that teams that are winning tend to win the finals.  There is a 1 game difference between Pitt and Detroit.  I'm not willing to bury a Wings team that is both hot and winning over this trend of yours.  In fact I feel the Wings will once again be the exception to the rule and provide Finals symmetry by winning it all giving us the perfect bookend set to your obviously misguided trend analysis.   

Yeah Im just filing time until the frakkin finals actually start.

[Rowdy]

After that blowout by the Pens, I'm almost ready to bump my prediction to Pens in 5... but we'll give the Detroit Geezers some credit and still say Pens in 6.   

[rshetts2]

The Wings could have just as easily run up the score in the last game vs Dallas but called off the dogs in the 2nd period unlike Pitt.  If youre going to base your prediction on that performance thats cool but dont be suprised when you find yourself thinking about how close the Pens came while Detroit hoists the cup once again.

[CSL]

Penguins in 6

[Arkon]

Pens in 6...

[ScubaV]

Exciting first period, although no question Wings should be up 1-0 now.  After that Dallas call, you have to wonder about the abilities/intelligence of some of these refs.  First of all, Fleury was partially out of his crease, negating any right to free movement.  Second, even if he was completely in his crease, Holmstrom's stick had no impact on his (in)ability to make the save.  Bullshit no goal call, and doubly bullshit with the penalty added.  People on the Detroit Free Press boards are suspicious that Bettman is favoring the Pens and that some of that will filter down.  I generally don't subscribe to conspiracy theories, but if calls like this continue... well, let's just see.

[ScubaV]

After a close first period, the Wings utterly dominated the next two.  Solid win and awesome shutout for Ozzie.  Should be interesting to see how Game 2 goes.  Detroit is the first real competition that Pittsburgh has faced so far, so their ability to respond to adversity is going to be tested.

Go Wings!

[Remus West2]

Woot!!!!!

Although I agree the call against Holmstrom was bullshit I was really happy about the way the team responded to it.  They completely dominated the game from that moment on.

[the Nightbreeze]

Red Wings played the better game tonight, no doubt.  And it would be stupid to say that the Wings are not the best team the Penguins have played in the playoffs.

I would be very surprised if the Penguins serve that many penalties in a game again.  The long break waiting for the series and nerves showed in the youngsters.  I suspect that the Penguins will pick up their game and make a series of it now that the first game is out of the way. I can't see them laying down just because Detroit Fans may tell them they have no shot.  The second goal was a passing error that ought to not even be a choice in Ruttu's mind in those circumstances.  Youthful misake, and it knocked the train of the tracks for the rest of the night.  They'll adjust.

[rshetts2]

The Wings played great and were very focused.  They also sent a message to the Pens.  That being we can shut down your vaunted offense.
Still its just one game and the loss is of minimal importance to the Pens.  Even if this series goes to Pittsburgh with the Wings up 2-0  not much will have been established.  The series hinges on road wins and the first team to get one will be in the drivers seat.  Obviously if no one gets a road win the cup goes to Detroit but that would make it a dream 7 game series for the NHL. 

[Kagath]

2-0 before the Pens even had a registered shot.


WINGS!

 

[Kagath]

Spoiler for Hiden:

WINGS!
 

[Remus West2]

The number of blatant shots to Frazen's head says some very very poor things about the Pens as a team and, if that does not change, as a franchise.  You want to play physical and take the body that is all fine but to blatantly punch a guy in the head every chance you get when he is coming back from a concussion (or period really) is just slimey and should not be part of the game.  I'd like to see them go back to trying to win at hockey rather than street alley muggings.  Adding Roberts to the line-up was a poor choice as he merely tried to be a thug rather than play hockey.  To bad really as he used to be a great hockey player.

Anyway, the Wings dominated again tonight obviously.  They have completely shut down the Pens and the frustration grows more evident every shift.  I'll be interested to see if going home helps them make a series of this.  If they are not at least competitive in game 3 then the Wings will sweep them easy in game 4.

Go Wings!!!!!

[rshetts2]

Yep the Wings are looking unbeatable right now.  Back to back shut outs for Ozzie!  I am happy for the guy.  If the Wings win this he should be series  MVP.  I heard about the Pens taking cheap shots in prior series and hoped it was just hard hockey but what I saw tonite was just plain dirty.  I was hoping for a good long tough series but now I hope the Wings spank them hard!   Games 3 will be life or death for the Pens, if the Wings take that one this series is over.  I cant possibly believe any team can take the Wings 4 in a row.

[ScubaV]

Absolutely.  There were a number of words I could have used to describe the Pens before this series, but I didn't think dirty was one of them.  Making a hard check is one thing, deliberately punching someone's head when not in a fair fight, no matter how lightly is another.

I bet all the people who picked the Pens are looking mighty silly right now.  Even if they raise their play several notches, there's no way they can take 4 of 5 games.  I could see this maybe going to 6 games, but I think 5 is most likely and a sweep is a very real possibility.  I bet the NHL is pretty peeved right now, considering all the hype about this being the greatest Finals ever, and the chance for an extended series with high ratings.

[Kagath]

The ref OHallaran was trying his best to extend the series before. This one and the Dallas one. See if he disallows anymore goals on Holmstrom. Heh, his tonight on the side of the crease was a nice change.

[Arkon]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game, so can't comment about any cheap shots from the pens, but props to the wings for being incredibly dominant.

[Mithridates]

I bet all the people who picked the Pens are looking mighty silly right now.  Even if they raise their play several notches, there's no way they can take 4 of 5 games.  I could see this maybe going to 6 games, but I think 5 is most likely and a sweep is a very real possibility.  I bet the NHL is pretty peeved right now, considering all the hype about this being the greatest Finals ever, and the chance for an extended series with high ratings.

I think its unsafe to jump to conclusions like "there's no way they can take 4 of 5 games".  That kind of stuff happens in sports.  It's not likely that the Pens are going to win the series, but things happen.

[msteelers]

Terrible first couple of games, for several reasons. The Pens are getting completely dominated, and so far have had no answer at all for it. It seems the only two players that are even trying are Crosby and Staal. The good thing though is I feel Game 2 was a hell of a lot closer than what the final score showed. The Pens probably had more quality chances to score than the Red Wings did, and they whiffed every single time at the puck, or the puck would take a nasty bounce over their stick. I have a feeling that once the Pens do score, it's going to be a floodgate for them, at least in one game. They have had their chances, and just haven't converted.

As for the Roberts hit, if the league punishes him then they MUST go after Cromwell as well. He has done nothing but head hunt in both games, and it is getting ridiculous. I hate watching players take cheap shots, but after two full games of it happening to the Pens, part of me was glad the tables were turned a little bit. The refs need to do a better job of keeping that crap under control, on both sides, so that this doesn't happen.

And is it too hard to ask for the refs to be consistent? I don't mind if the refs are letting calls go, but in the first two games I have watched the Red Wings commit blatant penalties where the ref literally turns and looks the other way, while the Pens breathe wrong and they go in to the sin bin. These calls might not directly affect the outcome of the game (Detroit was still the better team in both games), but it would at least be fair.

[Remus West2]

Means nothing but this is a funny little blurb from the NHL.com

180:29 – Elapsed time since the Penguins have scored a goal against the Red Wings. Detroit has won the last three meetings via shutout. The last goal scored by Pittsburgh against the Wings was by Mark Recchi at 19:31 of the third period in Detroit's 3-1 victory Dec. 12, 2005.

[The Meal]

Terrible first couple of games, for several reasons. The Pens are getting completely dominated, and so far have had no answer at all for it.

That's the opposite of "terrible," actually.  

It seems the only two players that are even trying are Crosby and Staal. The good thing though is I feel Game 2 was a hell of a lot closer than what the final score showed. The Pens probably had more quality chances to score than the Red Wings did, and they whiffed every single time at the puck, or the puck would take a nasty bounce over their stick.

Agreed about the whiffs, but disagree about quality scoring chances.  I will acknowledge some "funny" statskeeping by the Detroit home statskeepers (there's a reason they lead the league in shots this year, while giving up the fewest: the 41-home games with those statskeepers...).

I have a feeling that once the Pens do score, it's going to be a floodgate for them, at least in one game. They have had their chances, and just haven't converted.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to keep tuning into the games...

As for the Roberts hit, if the league punishes him then they MUST go after Cromwell as well.

#55 for Detroit is named Kronwall.

He has done nothing but head hunt in both games, and it is getting ridiculous.

I agree that he's not a clean hitter, but I disagree that his hits are head-hunters.  His issue is that he leaves his skates on 80-90% of his hits.  He tries to make up for his diminutive size by "exploding" into the opposition, and in doing so, he jumps at the opposition.  This isn't so much a specific intent to injure (such as Roberts' sucker-punch on Franzen from behind when the score was 3-0 with 3 minutes left in the game and the team down 2-0 in the series), but is definitely something which could be penalized.  Roberts should be suspended.

I hate watching players take cheap shots, but after two full games of it happening to the Pens, part of me was glad the tables were turned a little bit.

Ouch.  That stuff has no place in the game, IMO, and the retaliatory stuff (such as Datsyuk going after Roberts after it happened) should also be penalized within the ruleset of the game.  But intent to injure needs to be suspended, not (just) penalized.

And is it too hard to ask for the refs to be consistent? I don't mind if the refs are letting calls go, but in the first two games I have watched the Red Wings commit blatant penalties where the ref literally turns and looks the other way, while the Pens breathe wrong and they go in to the sin bin. These calls might not directly affect the outcome of the game (Detroit was still the better team in both games), but it would at least be fair.

I think the refereeing has been pretty fair, if not much to my liking.  The mysterious crackdown on Holmstrom's play near the crease has become *silly* and if it's the direction the league wants to go with players who make their living in front of the goaltender, I'm disappointed that the crackdown happened after teams had played 82 regular season games, and roughly 10 playoff games.  That is *not* the time to start changing the rules enforcement, IMO.

I'm not surprised at how the tone of the series has been, nor with the outcome of the games.  I am surprised that Pittsburgh's vaunted offense hasn't been able to get a puck by Detroit's worthless goaltender.  I mean, come ON, this is Chris freaking Osgood -- he's barely better than a bag of pucks, isn't he?

[Remus West2]

I am surprised that Pittsburgh's vaunted offense hasn't been able to get a puck by Detroit's worthless goaltender.  I mean, come ON, this is Chris freaking Osgood -- he's barely better than a bag of pucks, isn't he?

:mad:You had better add a winky there Bub.























 

[kratz]

Yeah, I don't think Kronwall is a headhunter at all.  He goes all out to lay down hard hits, but he's almost always playing the game when he does it.

I was really impressed that they actually got Datsyuk to throw a punch.  If you can get that guy to throw down then you probably need to admit that you are playing dirty.

The punches on Franzen were totally, totally out of line.

[msteelers]

Terrible first couple of games, for several reasons. The Pens are getting completely dominated, and so far have had no answer at all for it.

That's the opposite of "terrible," actually.   

I thought you wanted the Pens to win at least one? 

He has done nothing but head hunt in both games, and it is getting ridiculous.

I agree that he's not a clean hitter, but I disagree that his hits are head-hunters.  His issue is that he leaves his skates on 80-90% of his hits.  He tries to make up for his diminutive size by "exploding" into the opposition, and in doing so, he jumps at the opposition.  This isn't so much a specific intent to injure (such as Roberts' sucker-punch on Franzen from behind when the score was 3-0 with 3 minutes left in the game and the team down 2-0 in the series), but is definitely something which could be penalized.  Roberts should be suspended.

Even so, being small is no excuse to break the rule. The refs need to realize that this is something that continually happens, and start to penalize him for it.

Did Roberts throw two sucker punches in the game? I remember one, but it was more of an open palm to the face, and I thought it was earlier than 3 minutes left. I didn't really watch the end of the game, so if there was a second punch I missed it, which might explain why I'm not of the same opinion that Roberts should be suspended.

I hate watching players take cheap shots, but after two full games of it happening to the Pens, part of me was glad the tables were turned a little bit.

Ouch.  That stuff has no place in the game, IMO, and the retaliatory stuff (such as Datsyuk going after Roberts after it happened) should also be penalized within the ruleset of the game.  But intent to injure needs to be suspended, not (just) penalized.

I agree, it just needs to be equal on both sides.

And is it too hard to ask for the refs to be consistent? I don't mind if the refs are letting calls go, but in the first two games I have watched the Red Wings commit blatant penalties where the ref literally turns and looks the other way, while the Pens breathe wrong and they go in to the sin bin. These calls might not directly affect the outcome of the game (Detroit was still the better team in both games), but it would at least be fair.

I think the refereeing has been pretty fair, if not much to my liking.  The mysterious crackdown on Holmstrom's play near the crease has become *silly* and if it's the direction the league wants to go with players who make their living in front of the goaltender, I'm disappointed that the crackdown happened after teams had played 82 regular season games, and roughly 10 playoff games.  That is *not* the time to start changing the rules enforcement, IMO.

I agree, and to be honest I wasn't really talking about goalie interference or anything dealing with that. I can see both sides for the call in game 1. Fleury was just outside of the crease, and even though the defender did get his stick between the legs of Fleury, was it enough to stop him from moving to his side? I don't think so, but they only showed the replay in slow motion, and something like that is hard to tell. At least this call is going both ways though, or at least Osgood is doing his best to draw the penalty.

My beef with the refs is that I feel the Red Wings are doing a lot of holding, tripping, and interference, and the refs aren't calling anything, while the Pens are doing it to a lesser extent and get called for it repeatedly. Of course, I have an admitted bias which could make me see things that aren't there.

[The Meal]

I thought you wanted the Pens to win at least one? 

Good point!  And hopefully it's game 3.  We leave for Motown on Saturday morning, and if Pittsburgh drops Wednesday night's game, we won't even know if there'll be a game going on for us to attend on Monday.

Even so, being small is no excuse to break the rule. The refs need to realize that this is something that continually happens, and start to penalize him for it.

No disagreement here.  Each time he leaves the ice to make one of his hits, I end up sucking on my teeth expecting to hear the whistle.

Did Roberts throw two sucker punches in the game? I remember one, but it was more of an open palm to the face, and I thought it was earlier than 3 minutes left. I didn't really watch the end of the game, so if there was a second punch I missed it, which might explain why I'm not of the same opinion that Roberts should be suspended.

Nope, it happened with eleven minutes left.  Though one Pittsburgh scribe saw things a bit differently than you:

Marc-Andre Fleury looks as though he could jump out of his skin, at least the portion of it he didn't leave on the ice with that memorable entrance in Game 1.

It's not just that the Penguins are losing badly in the Stanley Cup final, reputations are being lost as well. Unless they want to be remembered for nothing more accomplished than Gary Roberts' awful, chicken-scat cheap shot left hook to the temple of concussion-recovering Johan Franzen, some kind of magical adjustment that currently seems beyond their capability is needed before 8 p.m. tomorrow.

If all that weren't embarrassing enough, Penguins coach Michel Therrien was intent on blaming the officials, who are about the 82nd most impactful architects of this 2-0 well the Penguins find themselves in.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08148/885120-61.stm

My beef with the refs is that I feel the Red Wings are doing a lot of holding, tripping, and interference, and the refs aren't calling anything, while the Pens are doing it to a lesser extent and get called for it repeatedly. Of course, I have an admitted bias which could make me see things that aren't there.

We're both biased, but I think that you're seeing stuff going on that isn't happening because of your bias.  Detroit plays a game unlike anyone in the rest of the league, and unfortunately for Pittsburgh, it's not the style game they can easily get accustomed to.  Pittsburgh's used to being the team carrying the puck, and if they don't have it, they're not well designed to go out there and get it back.  Game 2 saw them try to make adjustments by dumping the puck in more often and trying to hit the Wings as they went back to retrieve it.  That's not a strategy that works against Detroit -- they've been eating the dump-and-chase teams for lunch all season long.  Will be interesting to see what Therrien has his boys doing in Game 3.  Getting his preferred line matchups should at least lead to them getting a puck or two behind Osgood.  (Or at least one can hope...)

[Remus West2]

Did Roberts throw two sucker punches in the game? I remember one, but it was more of an open palm to the face, and I thought it was earlier than 3 minutes left. I didn't really watch the end of the game, so if there was a second punch I missed it, which might explain why I'm not of the same opinion that Roberts should be suspended.

He hit Franzen in the side of the face with a full on left hook (Roberts is a lefty for those that do not know) from behind.  He should have been given a game misconduct for that as well as a game to sit and think about what it means to try and hurt another player rather than try to win a hockey game.


Regardless of if there was one or two (I only remember the one real bad one) even one should be enough to get him suspended.  There should be no place in the game for sucker punching.  It is blatant attempt to injure rather than play hockey.  I used to think that Anaheim was the dirtiest team in hockey.  The Pens are proving that wrong.  The idea that they are being called for "everything" seems silly to me given the number of replays showing them get away with something outside the rules.  Roberts slashing the stick from Stuart hands (actually happens a lot but it is an infraction),  Rutuu (sp?) slashing Samuelson in game 1 across the arm with a fully horizontal stick then later saying he was trying to play the puck (at least come up with a plausible excuse for breaking your stick over a guy's arm, jackass), hits after the whistle constantly.....

As for comparing Kronwall's checks to sucker punches.  That is just ridiculous.  Leaving your feet while throwing a body check should be a two minute minor and should be called (more so than the "in the crease" BS they have been calling) but it is not nearly as far out of the rules as sucker punching.  If you keep your head up you can easily avoid Kronwall hitting you.  By definition, a sucker punch comes when you are not looking for it and are thus more prone to be hurt by it.

[msteelers]

Did Roberts throw two sucker punches in the game? I remember one, but it was more of an open palm to the face, and I thought it was earlier than 3 minutes left. I didn't really watch the end of the game, so if there was a second punch I missed it, which might explain why I'm not of the same opinion that Roberts should be suspended.

He hit Franzen in the side of the face with a full on left hook (Roberts is a lefty for those that do not know) from behind.  He should have been given a game misconduct for that as well as a game to sit and think about what it means to try and hurt another player rather than try to win a hockey game.

I watched the replay, and it is definitely a closed fist, and not an open palm. You will find no arguments from me if he gets suspended.

[ScubaV]

I've seen Kronwall leave his feet for a hit before, but I've also seen replays where he made contact with his feet on the ice and during the follow through came off the ice, through momentum or being unbalanced from the hit.  So, I wouldn't be so quick to make judgment calls when watching at full speed.  When he does leave his feet, no question that should be a penalty, but there's no comparison between what he does and what Roberts did.

As for penalties, sure the Wings got away with some, but the Pens got away with plenty of their own.  Therrien whined about obstruction in the Game 2 press conference, but that's the act of a desperate man.  Even Pittsburgh's sports writers are saying so.  The Wings are especially good at limiting the opposition's puck control.  Occasionally this happens outside the rules, but mostly it's perfectly legitimate.  It just seems unfair because no other team can replicate this with the same level of skill.

[Arkon]

I've seen Kronwall leave his feet for a hit before, but I've also seen replays where he made contact with his feet on the ice and during the follow through came off the ice, through momentum or being unbalanced from the hit. 

Just to point out... he often is leaving his skates just as he makes contact, in essence he is jumping into the hit, which I believe would be legal, it is only a penalty if he leaves his feet before making contact, but it is a tough judgement call to make and more often than not isn't called.  That said, his hits would be just as devastating if he didn't leave his feet since he regularly catches guys with thier heads down, but by doing so he could really injure a guy by making contact with the other players head.

[Canuck]

Well it looks like the West is going to steamroll over the East again.

[Remus West2]

Did Roberts throw two sucker punches in the game? I remember one, but it was more of an open palm to the face, and I thought it was earlier than 3 minutes left. I didn't really watch the end of the game, so if there was a second punch I missed it, which might explain why I'm not of the same opinion that Roberts should be suspended.

He hit Franzen in the side of the face with a full on left hook (Roberts is a lefty for those that do not know) from behind.  He should have been given a game misconduct for that as well as a game to sit and think about what it means to try and hurt another player rather than try to win a hockey game.

I watched the replay, and it is definitely a closed fist, and not an open palm. You will find no arguments from me if he gets suspended.

It is going to be awfully difficult to remain indignant if you are going to be all reasonable like that.  Jerk.

[LordMortis]

I have to say, I am loving the Wings energy.  They are playing like they always should be.  Pavel getting into like three times during the game.  How cool is that?  And never losing his stride at the same time.  How awesome.  I think Stuart in particular has brought an energy and a physical game which has been lacking and the message has been spread to the entire team.  It's been going on since late March but it's really shining now.

I hate the Kronwell leaves the ice.

I don't know much about the Pens.  The shot on the Mule was shocking, except that I've noticed that my team are flopping more and more and I never know what to make of a fall anymore.  I literally have to watch a replay to have any clue what kind of hit they took.  That particular "style" of play is really beginning to annoy me.  I don't want our team to become the Cavs or the Spurs of the NHL.  It's cry baby tactics and the implications are way more meaningful than they are in basketball.  I don't like it at all and it's in direct opposition to the afore mentioned energy they've developed that I love so much.  I am so conflicted.

[Remus West2]

There is a difference between a flop and over-playing the contact.  What the Spurs do is flop.  They fly backward before contact is made.  What Ozzie does is over-play.  He exaggerates contact made to him.  I have a feeling that this is mostly because of all the seasons they have been through that nothing was called (see last year's Anaheim series) because they fought through it and kept going.  This year they are forcing the issue.  Make the official make the call.  I do not like it but I like it a whole hell of a lot better than watching them take abuse that should be called and not have it called because they kept playing.  When they start going down on plays that should not be called penalties against the other team then I will have issues with it.  Every instance of it this season that I can recall there deserved to be a call made.

[Koz]

There is a difference between a flop and over-playing the contact.  What the Spurs do is flop.  They fly backward before contact is made.  What Ozzie does is over-play. He exaggerates contact made to him.

No, they're the same thing. The Spurs don't just start falling on the ground with no one around them. They flop with at least a semblence of contact. Same thing happens in the NHL. If you feel a stick touch any part of your body, you fall down. It's a penalty 90% of the time.

I have a feeling that this is mostly because of all the seasons they have been through that nothing was called (see last year's Anaheim series) because they fought through it and kept going.

They should, because last time I checked the sport they are playing is hockey. It is a contact sport. It's one thing to constantly hook people from behind or body check them away from the puck. It's entirely another thing to drop to the ground as soon as a stick hits your glove.

This year they are forcing the issue.  Make the official make the call.  I do not like it but I like it a whole hell of a lot better than watching them take abuse that should be called and not have it called because they kept playing.

That's an interesting way to rationalize it.

When they start going down on plays that should not be called penalties against the other team then I will have issues with it.  Every instance of it this season that I can recall there deserved to be a call made.

This makes me question if you do in fact actually watch hockey. It's a rare occurrence when this DOESN'T happen in a game. Flopping/diving is an accepted tactic in today's NHL, especially with more emphasis on the power play. And more often than not, they wouldn't have been penalties had the guy not hit the ice.