NHL 2010 Season is off and running! (Except for Devil, where it is already over)

[theohall]

Fighting Majors, not penalty minutes.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/leaders/teams/

I know.  Who is 3rd on that list and didn't have 10 fighting majors in one game recently?

[gellar]

Fighting Majors, not penalty minutes.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/leaders/teams/

I know.  Who is 3rd on that list and didn't have 10 fighting majors in one game recently?

OK, terrific?

[Koz]

According to the main Bruins board, the worst trade in the history of the NHL was just made: a 2nd round pick for Chris Kelly! ZOMG!!!!!

Christ, I'm starting to see where Devil is coming from.

[JayDee]

Enjoy Kaberle Koz.

[Devil]

According to the main Bruins board, the worst trade in the history of the NHL was just made: a 2nd round pick for Chris Kelly! ZOMG!!!!!

Christ, I'm starting to see where Devil is coming from.

See!

At the press conference Kaberle said he looks forward to shaking hands at center ice after the loss in the second round. "It will be nice to test free agancy with a round of playoff experience under my belt this year"

[Koz]

Enjoy Kaberle Koz.

Most Bruins fans are very happy, Kaberle is the exact kind of player we need. That being said, unlike past Boston/Toronto trades, I think the Leafs got very good value out of him. Colborne is a Joe Thornton-like player who hasn't developed as quickly as projected (though Thornton didn't either) and probably a low 20's first rounder. Good deal for a pending UFA.

[JayDee]

Enjoy Kaberle Koz.

Most Bruins fans are very happy, Kaberle is the exact kind of player we need. That being said, unlike past Boston/Toronto trades, I think the Leafs got very good value out of him. Colborne is a Joe Thornton-like player who hasn't developed as quickly as projected (though Thornton didn't either) and probably a low 20's first rounder. Good deal for a pending UFA.

And if you make the finals or re-sign Kaberle apparently the Leafs also get your 2nd rounder.

[gellar]

I think the Leafs got a lot more than most expected for Kaberle.  Good on them.

[theohall]

Enjoy Kaberle Koz.

Damn!  That means the Blues are still suck with Brewer. 

[gellar]

Enjoy Kaberle Koz.

Damn!  That means the Blues are still suck with Brewer. 

Uh, they traded him to Tampa Bay for a 3rd round pick and Brock Beukeboom earlier today.

[ScubaV]

Enjoy Kaberle Koz.

Damn!  That means the Blues are still suck with Brewer. 

Uh, they traded him to Tampa Bay for a 3rd round pick and Brock Beukeboom earlier today.

That is an f'ing awesome name.  I wonder how it's pronounced.  Beeewwk-eh-boom or Boohk-eh-boom?  Something else?  Add Brock in front and this kid better be 6'5" 250 lbs to live up to the hype.

[theohall]

Enjoy Kaberle Koz.

Damn!  That means the Blues are still suck with Brewer. 

Uh, they traded him to Tampa Bay for a 3rd round pick and Brock Beukeboom earlier today.

  Had no idea.  Was stuck at work until about 6 pm...

[gellar]

My favorite of trade of the (surprisingly busy) day was Ottawa and Colorado swapping goalies.  Colorado gets a consistently mediocre goalie in exchange for their once all-star but now all-suck Anderson.

[Koz]

Oh man, it is amazing how much better the Bruins powerplay looked just by having Kaberle on it. Granted, they were playing Ottawa, more than half of whose players I don't even recognize, but Boston finally has that guy that can play the point. Most recently they had Recchi () playing it.

[Devil]

Yeah - It's kinda like the Bruins getting Gonchar in his prime for the final push for The Cup then not getting out of the first round by blowing a big series lead against the 7th seed in the east.

...or like picking up Al Iafrate for a final push to the The Cup and then not getting out of  the second round after being up 2 games to none against a far superior organization.

I love it!

This is my favorite time of year. The weather starts to get a little warmer in Boston and the cries of "I don't see anyone who can beat them" are heard around North Station, and yet, some team always manages to do it.
 

[Koz]

Says the person convinced Boston was going to win the Cup last year.

[gellar]

I really can't see anyone in the east getting past Philly.  They are too deep to fail, it's really remarkable.  That is unless their goalie starts playing like the unheard of rookie that he actually is.

[pr0ner]

The Blues traded Erik Johnson, Jay McClement and a conditional 1st round pick to the Avalanche for Chris Stewart, Kevin Shattenkirk, and a conditional 2nd round pick.  Apparently, the conditions are that if the Blues pick is in the top 10 this year, they can keep it if they wish and give the Avs their 1st rounder in 2012 (wherever it is).  If the Blues exercise that option, the Avs wouldn't send that 2nd round pick til 2012, as well.

[Devil]

Says the person convinced Boston was going to win the Cup last year.

Yes - And you can tell from my track record, how likely that was!

I still think the year that you have the Norris, Jack Adams and Vezina winners you should at least be a favorite.

Kozzy - Just jokes. They have a good team, but something always happens.

I remember a guy in here who was all giddy about a PP with Greene, Rolston, Parise, Elias and Kovalchuk at the beginning of the year.

Speaking of, Kovy is playing AMAZING in this little run. All over the ice, not just offense!

[leo8877]

That is unless their goalie starts playing like the unheard of rookie that he actually is.

That's how you win in the Playoffs now!

[gellar]

The Blues traded Erik Johnson, Jay McClement and a conditional 1st round pick to the Avalanche for Chris Stewart, Kevin Shattenkirk, and a conditional 2nd round pick.  Apparently, the conditions are that if the Blues pick is in the top 10 this year, they can keep it if they wish and give the Avs their 1st rounder in 2012 (wherever it is).  If the Blues exercise that option, the Avs wouldn't send that 2nd round pick til 2012, as well.

That is a fucking ridiculous trade.  You NEVER see that kind of trade in today's NHL.  It's awesome.  Big risk/reward on both sides.  We definitely won't be able to pick a winner for this one for quite a few years.

It's a very interesting gamble from Colorado's standpoint.  They got the player with by far the highest ceiling.  They basically did the perfect buy low (EJ)/sell high (Stewart and Shat), but it just all depends on if EJ hits his potential.

[theohall]

The Blues traded Erik Johnson, Jay McClement and a conditional 1st round pick to the Avalanche for Chris Stewart, Kevin Shattenkirk, and a conditional 2nd round pick.  Apparently, the conditions are that if the Blues pick is in the top 10 this year, they can keep it if they wish and give the Avs their 1st rounder in 2012 (wherever it is).  If the Blues exercise that option, the Avs wouldn't send that 2nd round pick til 2012, as well.

That is a fucking ridiculous trade.  You NEVER see that kind of trade in today's NHL.  It's awesome.  Big risk/reward on both sides.  We definitely won't be able to pick a winner for this one for quite a few years.

It's a very interesting gamble from Colorado's standpoint.  They got the player with by far the highest ceiling.  They basically did the perfect buy low (EJ)/sell high (Stewart and Shat), but it just all depends on if EJ hits his potential.

Here is the deal.  EJ was regressing badly.  He wouldn't hit. Stopped passing well.  Was supplanted on the power play by Nikita Nikitin and Alex Pietrangelo because EJ wouldn't shoot.  He had to stick handle the puck every time it came to him even when perfectly setup for the one-timer.  Was struggling maintaining possession on the point (unlike every other Blues defenseman).  And apparently was not handling the fact Alex Pietrangelo is already a stud defenseman, while he was stinking up the joint very well. 

The Blues have needed a 30-goal guy and Stewart definitely has that potential.  Being only in his 3rd year in the league, he is about to hit his prime and should become a regular 30-goal a year guy.

Shattenkirk has lots of upside as well.  If one goes back and looks at the drafts, swap the years Shattenkirk and EJ were drafted and it's likely the Blues would have taken Shattenkirk #1 overall - they Blues needed D and that draft wasn't that strong in talent. So they replace EJ with a similar hyped player under a smaller contract.

We shall see how it pans out.  It's essentially the Blues trading 2 first round picks (EJ plus the pick) and a 2nd (McClement) for 2 Avs first round picks (Stewart/Shattenkirk) and a 2nd.

Some Blues fans are upset, while others are getting what the asked for - the missing scoring forward.  I was getting sick of watching Johnson play worse and worse each game.  I'm wondering how long it will be before Avs fans get sick of hearing the phrase "down goes Johnson" as he attempts to block a shot by lieing on the ice then watching the opponent stick-handle around him and set up the goal anyway.  The "down goes Johnson" thing had been happening 2 or more times per game for a long time this season.  Then - see how upset they get when he doesn't hit somebody he should leading to yet more quality scoring chances.  And then, get even more upset when he gives up a glorious point shot opportunity by stick-handling the puck allowing the defense to get in the lanes instead of shooting.  Yes - EJ has been that bad this season.

[theohall]

I also had to share this about Eric Brewer.  This is what a group of Blues fans think about teh Brewer!  It was created just under 3 years and has been a running joke ever since.

Things more intimidating then Eric Brewer

[gellar]

I definitely understand why the Blues traded him, but fact is he absolutely has the highest ceiling of all the players in this trade.  Look at the Olympics for the most recent example, where he was, in my opinion, the best defenseman on the US roster.

He's certainly sucked it up this year, but he's a 22 year old being asked to play #1 d-man minutes against the top lines of the other team.  That's a tall, tall order.  Drew Doughty has had stretches of absolute wretched play this year, but I still wouldn't trade him for 99% of the NHL.  Franchise d-men are hard to find and given that a defenseman is rarely in his prime until his late 20s at the earliest, I think it's too early to give up on EJ bouncing back.  That being said, the Blues certainly got good return for him and if you judge this trade based on the way the players are playing TODAY, clearly STL won.

EJ still has the potential to be 90% of what Chris Pronger is.  Who knows if he gets there - I'm sure the Avs are hoping he does.

[theohall]

He's certainly sucked it up this year, but he's a 22 year old being asked to play #1 d-man minutes against the top lines of the other team.  That's a tall, tall order. 

That's the kicker.  For about 2 months now, ever since Polak returned, he wasn't playing the opponents top forwards if Payne got the matchup he wanted.  Pietrangelo has been the only Blues defenseman playing 20+ minutes per game because he draws PP, PK, and top forward matchups.  EJ was barely playing 15 minutes per game over the past 6 weeks and was still getting worse every game.  Basically, he couldn't handle being outplayed by a teammate for some idiotic reason.  At least that's what's being floated in rumor circles.

Yes, the trade is a gamble.  The Blues are gambling for a playoff run now by adding scoring.  The Avs are gambling for a future betting that EJ finally returns to the form for which he was drafted.  The kicker is the Blues have plenty of defensive depth, so it's not really hurting them to lose Erik Johnson - even if he was a former #1 overall pick.  They still have Ian Cole and Mark Cundari sitting in the minors developing.  And this doesn't include adding Shattenkirk and Beukeboom.  They traded depth for the scoring they lacked.  The crazy part - last time the Blues made a late season playoff run neither Erik Johnson or Eric Brewer were playing.  Both were out with injuries.

[theohall]

The Blues and Ducks think they are playing an all-star game:  4-3 Blues after one.

[Devil]

 

[theohall]

I see what you did there. 

[Xmann]

<-------pissed off Avs fan.

gonna regret they ever traded Stewart.    before his injury, thats all you heard from the team and managment how Stewart was quickly emerging as a real great player.   big man who isn't afraid of anyone.   he's out for 6 weeks with a broken hand and comes back from the injury with a slow start.   so what do they do......hmmm.....trade him!

genius!

thank goodness baseball season is starting soon.   Avs lose 10th straight last night....and shut out none the less.    Stewart has 2 goals for Blues.

[JayDee]

I definitely understand why the Blues traded him, but fact is he absolutely has the highest ceiling of all the players in this trade.  Look at the Olympics for the most recent example, where he was, in my opinion, the best defenseman on the US roster.

He's certainly sucked it up this year, but he's a 22 year old being asked to play #1 d-man minutes against the top lines of the other team.  That's a tall, tall order.  Drew Doughty has had stretches of absolute wretched play this year, but I still wouldn't trade him for 99% of the NHL.  Franchise d-men are hard to find and given that a defenseman is rarely in his prime until his late 20s at the earliest, I think it's too early to give up on EJ bouncing back.  That being said, the Blues certainly got good return for him and if you judge this trade based on the way the players are playing TODAY, clearly STL won.

EJ still has the potential to be 90% of what Chris Pronger is.  Who knows if he gets there - I'm sure the Avs are hoping he does.

This. You don't move your #1 overall draft pick when he's only 22 years old after 3/4 of a bad season. This could come back and bite St. Louis pretty bad in a few years. And I'm not sold on Shattenkirk. These flash in the pan defencemen come and go all the time. Anyone remember Del Zotto from the Rangers? 20th overall pick, had a great year last year out of nowhere and has spent much of the season in the AHL this year.

[theohall]

I definitely understand why the Blues traded him, but fact is he absolutely has the highest ceiling of all the players in this trade.  Look at the Olympics for the most recent example, where he was, in my opinion, the best defenseman on the US roster.

He's certainly sucked it up this year, but he's a 22 year old being asked to play #1 d-man minutes against the top lines of the other team.  That's a tall, tall order.  Drew Doughty has had stretches of absolute wretched play this year, but I still wouldn't trade him for 99% of the NHL.  Franchise d-men are hard to find and given that a defenseman is rarely in his prime until his late 20s at the earliest, I think it's too early to give up on EJ bouncing back.  That being said, the Blues certainly got good return for him and if you judge this trade based on the way the players are playing TODAY, clearly STL won.

EJ still has the potential to be 90% of what Chris Pronger is.  Who knows if he gets there - I'm sure the Avs are hoping he does.

This. You don't move your #1 overall draft pick when he's only 22 years old after 3/4 of a bad season. This could come back and bite St. Louis pretty bad in a few years. And I'm not sold on Shattenkirk. These flash in the pan defencemen come and go all the time. Anyone remember Del Zotto from the Rangers? 20th overall pick, had a great year last year out of nowhere and has spent much of the season in the AHL this year.

When you have depth on defense and need a power forward, you do.  Especially when you get a "flash in the pan" defenseman who is playing better right now than EJ has in awhile.  In spite of the Avs color guy fellating Johnson being a #1 overall pick, he played like crap last night again.  Blues playoff push - Avs future.  That's what the trade was about.

What folks aren't realizing is how good Alex Pietrangelo is for the Blues.  He was a major factor in the Blues deciding to move Erik Johnson.

[Xmann]

I didn't watch last night, but the Avs color guy is about as bad as they come.    I watch alot of games now either with mute on or the sound turned down.    Glad i missed the garbage he was throwing out last night.    I'm sure he said how much a disappointment Stewart has been......after he has done nothing but kiss his ass all season.

Whatever.....the Avs have taken such a huge step backwards this year i don't know where to start.   Seems to me that they don't know how to "manage" all this great young talent they have.    Makes me wonder if they gave Josh McDaniels an executive position with the Avs after the Broncos fired him last year.

All we need now here in Denver is for Carmelo to not get traded before the deadline and sign eventually with someone else in the offseason and not have gotten a single thing in return.    What in the hell is going on in Denver?

[theohall]

All we need now here in Denver is for Carmelo to not get traded before the deadline and sign eventually with someone else in the offseason and not have gotten a single thing in return.    What in the hell is going on in Denver?

Thinner air? 

Or Kroenke no longer being the point man since he bought the Rams.

[gellar]

I definitely understand why the Blues traded him, but fact is he absolutely has the highest ceiling of all the players in this trade.  Look at the Olympics for the most recent example, where he was, in my opinion, the best defenseman on the US roster.

He's certainly sucked it up this year, but he's a 22 year old being asked to play #1 d-man minutes against the top lines of the other team.  That's a tall, tall order.  Drew Doughty has had stretches of absolute wretched play this year, but I still wouldn't trade him for 99% of the NHL.  Franchise d-men are hard to find and given that a defenseman is rarely in his prime until his late 20s at the earliest, I think it's too early to give up on EJ bouncing back.  That being said, the Blues certainly got good return for him and if you judge this trade based on the way the players are playing TODAY, clearly STL won.

EJ still has the potential to be 90% of what Chris Pronger is.  Who knows if he gets there - I'm sure the Avs are hoping he does.

This. You don't move your #1 overall draft pick when he's only 22 years old after 3/4 of a bad season. This could come back and bite St. Louis pretty bad in a few years. And I'm not sold on Shattenkirk. These flash in the pan defencemen come and go all the time. Anyone remember Del Zotto from the Rangers? 20th overall pick, had a great year last year out of nowhere and has spent much of the season in the AHL this year.

When you have depth on defense and need a power forward, you do.  Especially when you get a "flash in the pan" defenseman who is playing better right now than EJ has in awhile.  In spite of the Avs color guy fellating Johnson being a #1 overall pick, he played like crap last night again.  Blues playoff push - Avs future.  That's what the trade was about.

What folks aren't realizing is how good Alex Pietrangelo is for the Blues.  He was a major factor in the Blues deciding to move Erik Johnson.

1)  I think if the Blues made this trade with the intention of making the playoffs this year, they made a mistake.  It's quite unlikely (though definitely not impossible) that they make it.  Right now they hold a 22.7% chance according to sportsclubstats (which was surprisingly accurate last year).  In terms of % chance, they'd have to jump the Blackhawks, Stars, and Ducks (along with the likelier teams: Nashville, San Jose, Phoenix, LA, Minnesota, and Calgary).  It's not impossible, but its a massive uphill climb.  To have a legitimate (but not guaranteed) chance of making it, they'd have to put up a 15-8-2 mark or better just to get to 95 points.  It's entirely possible making the playoffs out of the West will require 100 points this year.  Put it this way, outside of the two guaranteed OUT teams (Colorado and Edmonton), St Louis is only ahead of Columbus in terms of likelihood.

2)  I don't watch a ton of St Louis games, but I will 100% agree that Alex Pieterangelo is very, very, very good now.  He is absolutely projecting to be a 1-2 defenseman in this league.  Having him and what EJ should be at the blueline would've been a scary 1-2 punch.  Also, if having another defenseman outshine him ruined his confidence, then yes it was absolutely time to get rid of EJ.  Maybe the change of scenery helps both teams.  One other IMPORTANT factor that I think drove a lot of this trade:  EJ's RFA year is the exact same as David Perron's, which is around the same time as Oshie and Pieterangelo.  It was probably prudent to move one of those four as it's unlikely to keep all of them when their contracts hit at the same time.

3)  You can't put any weight on what Shattenkirk will be yet.  He's had a good statistical, though massively inconsistent year.  You also have to remember he's playing with some ridiculously good Colorado fwds, so his #s are going to be slightly inflated.  When that team cooled down from it's start, so did The Shat (I love his name).  He could project anywhere from a #2 D-man to fringe NHLer, depending on how he pans out.  One year doesn't tell us anything yet, per the Del Zotto (who may well still be good) comparison.  What we know as fact:  young NHL defensemen are  inconsistent solely due to the pressures and rigors of that position.  You have no idea what you have until they are in their mid 20s and put together a few seasons of consistent results.

4)  The Avs TV crew is probably in my top 4 hated of the entire league.  Pittsburgh, Boston, and Detroit are the only others that come to mind in terms of their complete suck.

5)  Stewart is a very, very good top six power forward, but he's not a franchise d-man.  Value wise, what EJ could be is still much higher than what the return was.

I guess the bottom line is this: we certainly can't judge the trade now.  I suppose if St Louis does the improbable and makes it into the playoffs, you could consider it a win for them.  If they miss, you still can't call it a loss.  What will determine the value of this trade is if EJ turns into what he's been supposed to turn into.  If he is Colorado's next Rob Blake, the Avs would be elated and there will be much hand wringing in St Louis.  If he's a 3-4 defenseman, then the trade favors St Louis quite a bit, especially if Shattenkirk plays to the high end of his potential.

[theohall]

Blues are up 2-0 on Hawks after one right now and they are dominating the Hawks.  A win, which is likely, puts the Blues 3 points from a playoff spot.  That percentage you referenced is based on the team before the trade.

And the Blues D promptly starts screwing up as soon as i post that. 

[pr0ner]

No, that percentage he referenced is accurate as of today.

[Jiffy]

Blues are up 2-0 on Hawks after one right now and they are dominating the Hawks.  A win, which is likely

 

[theohall]

No, that percentage he referenced is accurate as of today.

A percentage based on 1 game with the current lineup isn't that accurate.  

Back to the game, Blues 2nd period was horrible.  Started standing around watching like the 'Hawks would just quit.  Stupid.  Result - 4 GA.   

[gellar]

No, that percentage he referenced is accurate as of today.

A percentage based on 1 game with the current lineup isn't that accurate. 

What do you think the likelihood of this game going 15-8-2 or better is?

[theohall]

Pretty good, actually.  Way better than 22%.  Without adding Stewart, that 22% number is alot more accurate.