NFL 2011 Offseason Discussion -2012 Draft Edition

[Doopri]

and wow the big name wideouts are NOT waiting around, are they?

[naednek]

ya Reggie Wayne just resigned

Flynn is looking like he's going to Miami or Cleveland

[gellar]

I don't really understand the hardon for Flynn given the extremely small sample size and what he's possibly going to cost in terms of contract.

I'm somewhat bummed about two things today: Josh Morgan didn't resign with the 49ers and Vincent Jackson didn't sign with the 49ers.  Both of these things suck.

[Devil]

Talkin, talkin, talkin Niners talk... 

I agree with gellsy. Why can't Flynn be Scott Mitchell?

[Eightball]

I don't really understand the hardon for Flynn given the extremely small sample size and what he's possibly going to cost in terms of contract.

I'm somewhat bummed about two things today: Josh Morgan didn't resign with the 49ers and Vincent Jackson didn't sign with the 49ers.  Both of these things suck.

Don't know much about Morgan.  What do you guys think of him?

[gellar]

I don't really understand the hardon for Flynn given the extremely small sample size and what he's possibly going to cost in terms of contract.

I'm somewhat bummed about two things today: Josh Morgan didn't resign with the 49ers and Vincent Jackson didn't sign with the 49ers.  Both of these things suck.

Don't know much about Morgan.  What do you guys think of him?

Underrated.  Was probably the best 49er receiver when healthy.

[naednek]

sweet Carlos Rogers signed a 4 year deal with the niners. 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/carlos-rogers-stays-put-in-san-fran/

Defense is now shored up.  Now we just need some weapons on offense.

[leo8877]

sweet Carlos Rogers signed a 4 year deal with the niners. 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/carlos-rogers-stays-put-in-san-fran/

Defense is now shored up.  Now we just need some weapons on offense.

Nice. I thought he was gone for sure.

[naednek]

sweet Carlos Rogers signed a 4 year deal with the niners. 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/carlos-rogers-stays-put-in-san-fran/

Defense is now shored up.  Now we just need some weapons on offense.

Nice. I thought he was gone for sure.

me too, after seeing all the CB's they signed.

[Doopri]

i know i always liked flynn because during the few times he stepped in for one of the top 3 quarterbacks in the league, i didnt see much a difference in the performance of the offense.  he didnt force anything, he checks down and he has more nfl experience than any of the qbs coming out of the draft (not a big deal for the colts but were i the 'skins, who are going to pay big money AND a lot of draft picks i would have tried my hands at flynn).  he just seems much more "proven" than either of the draft qbs - and historically those top draft qbs are feast or famine.  a big deal in a day and age when 1) teams have to pay them a TON and 2) teams have to trade up bigtime to get them (or suck - colts! )

also in the field of backup qbs - pats qb hoyer is on the market.  after a few very nice preseasons he looked bad this past year, but i blame that on mallett getting more reps behind the scenes (speculation on my part) so the pats could see if he was really what they expected him to be.  and hoyer would come on the cheap $-wise, plus a second round pick (right?)

[Suitably Ironic Moniker]

Yeah, well ask the Cards how Kolb, aka the last backup-turned-savior, worked out for them. At least the 'Skins won't be paying RG3 too much.

[naednek]

Brandon Lloyd visiting the niners tomorrow!  That would be nice.

[rshetts2]

Sorry to interrupt the 9'ers love in here  but heres some real news:   The Lions just signed Megatron to a 7 year extension!  By doing so they also opened up another 9 mil in cap room.  CJ in detroit for another 7 years, yeah I like that alot!

[Eightball]

i know i always liked flynn because during the few times he stepped in for one of the top 3 quarterbacks in the league, i didnt see much a difference in the performance of the offense.  he didnt force anything, he checks down and he has more nfl experience than any of the qbs coming out of the draft (not a big deal for the colts but were i the 'skins, who are going to pay big money AND a lot of draft picks i would have tried my hands at flynn).  he just seems much more "proven" than either of the draft qbs - and historically those top draft qbs are feast or famine.  a big deal in a day and age when 1) teams have to pay them a TON and 2) teams have to trade up bigtime to get them (or suck - colts! )

Actually, under the new CBA, high draft picks aren't paid a ton anymore.  For example, Cam Newton signed a 4 year, 22 million contract last year.

Matt Flynn's probably going to get significantly more than that (see Kevin Kolb, 5 years, 63 million).  And it's not like Flynn has any sort of substantial NFL experience...dude's started a whole 3 whole games in the NFL.

[Doopri]

oh wow yeah i was going under the assumption that flynn would go for less than that

and cam newton signed  4 years, 22 million!  i thought he and his dad held out for a bigger offer than that coming out of hs!

[leo8877]

oh wow yeah i was going under the assumption that flynn would go for less than that

and cam newton signed  4 years, 22 million!  i thought he and his dad held out for a bigger offer than that coming out of hs!

New CBA, nothing he can do.  Rookies get squat now in comparison.

[leo8877]

Former Niners starting R-Guard Adam Snyder signed with the Cards for 5 years.

Also:

- Somehow DeSean Jackson signed with the Eagles again.

- Peyton Hillis signed with KC

[naednek]

Former Niners starting R-Guard Adam Snyder signed with the Cards for 5 years.

Yeah, I was disappointed to hear that and Blake Costanzo leaving

[Devil]

Is Williams really going to sign in Buffalo?

Oh, and Niners!

[ATB]

Bills sign Williams.  Oh, Buffalo.  Such a tease with the glimmer of hopefulness...

[Devil]

7-9

[leo8877]

Kyle Orton to Dallas.  Romo must be scared!  Teggy, too!

[leo8877]

Manning apparently worked out for Niners:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/03/16/report-49ers-emerge-as-darkhorse-to-land-peyton-manning/?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp

[naednek]

I'm not sure how I feel about it.  Manning is an awesome QB, but he's now damaged goods.  I'd love to see Alex leave, but I'd rather get a younger healthier QB to take his place.

I guess this could be good, because you can keep molding Kopernick while Manning does his last stunt here, and then put in him in after.  The only downside is if Manning gets hurt Kopernick is thrown in early and we're back to square one just like Alex

[gellar]

I'm not sure how I feel about it.  Manning is an awesome QB, but he's now damaged goods.  I'd love to see Alex leave, but I'd rather get a younger healthier QB to take his place.

And who is this mythical QB you would prefer?  We can't make one up out of thin air.

If Manning is healthy even if just for one season and the Niners can legitimately have him, you have to take the risk that he holds up.  He's worlds better than anyone else you could get to play the position right now.  Worry about the future later.  Manning = 49ers are the Superbowl FAVORITE, not just a contender.  It's a game changer.

[naednek]

I'm not sure how I feel about it.  Manning is an awesome QB, but he's now damaged goods.  I'd love to see Alex leave, but I'd rather get a younger healthier QB to take his place.

And who is this mythical QB you would prefer?  We can't make one up out of thin air.

If Manning is healthy even if just for one season and the Niners can legitimately have him, you have to take the risk that he holds up.  He's worlds better than anyone else you could get to play the position right now.  Worry about the future later.  Manning = 49ers are the Superbowl FAVORITE, not just a contender.  It's a game changer.

I already know you won't like it, but I like Flynn.  Yeah's he's probably just an unknown just as it's unknown Manning's neck can stay healthy, but I've liked what I've seen of him (Patriots game, Lions game last year)  I'd rather go young, and more importantly, cheaper.

But you make good points as well, if Manning is healthy, what you said is absolutely right.  

[Jimmy the Fish]

Sorry, but Gellar is right. If there is even just one year window of opportunity to win the Super Bowl with Manning, you take it. After 10 years of shit football, with empty promises about the future, I'm ready to go with right here right now, and if Manning puts the Niners over the top, even for one season, it's time to go for it.

[rshetts2]

I have to agree, if  they determine Manning is able to play at even close to his normal skill level, they would be fools not to try and sign him.  They would be a top SB contender the second he signed.  Regardless of his flashes of brilliance, Flynn is an unknown and there are many who believe his occasional success is more due to the system than his particular skills.  Manning is one of those exceptional atheletes who has the ability to make everyone around him a better player. While I dont particularly like the idea of Manning in a Niners uni, I can easily see how good a match this would be both for Manning and the Niners.

[Devil]

1 Super Bowl win and 5 seasons of 7-9
Or
No Super Bowl wins and 8 seasons of 12-4

I'd take the Super Bowl


...Niners

[Eightball]

I already know you won't like it, but I like Flynn.  Yeah's he's probably just an unknown just as it's unknown Manning's neck can stay healthy, but I've liked what I've seen of him (Patriots game, Lions game last year)  I'd rather go young, and more importantly, cheaper.

But you make good points as well, if Manning is healthy, what you said is absolutely right.  

Flynn cheaper?  Manning will play on an incentive laden deal, likely shorter term (2-3 years).  Flynn is looking for a contract like Kolbs...5 year, 63 million.  That's a heck of a lot more than you'd commit to Manning.

[gellar]

I already know you won't like it, but I like Flynn.  Yeah's he's probably just an unknown just as it's unknown Manning's neck can stay healthy, but I've liked what I've seen of him (Patriots game, Lions game last year)  I'd rather go young, and more importantly, cheaper.

But you make good points as well, if Manning is healthy, what you said is absolutely right. 

Flynn cheaper?  Manning will play on an incentive laden deal, likely shorter term (2-3 years).  Flynn is looking for a contract like Kolbs...5 year, 63 million.  That's a heck of a lot more than you'd commit to Manning.

This.

However, if you've actually talked yourself into Flynn over Manning, there is no logical argument in the world that can save you.

[naednek]

I already know you won't like it, but I like Flynn.  Yeah's he's probably just an unknown just as it's unknown Manning's neck can stay healthy, but I've liked what I've seen of him (Patriots game, Lions game last year)  I'd rather go young, and more importantly, cheaper.

But you make good points as well, if Manning is healthy, what you said is absolutely right.  

Flynn cheaper?  Manning will play on an incentive laden deal, likely shorter term (2-3 years).  Flynn is looking for a contract like Kolbs...5 year, 63 million.  That's a heck of a lot more than you'd commit to Manning.

While if we do sign Manning, I hope you right, but my comments were based on the time of reading various reports that Manning is demanding to be paid the same amount of $$$ that he was going to make with the Colts.  So you can see where my concerns come in.

I do see the upsides, and already mentioned I agree with it, it's just the risk is so big, it's hard to swallow/accept.  And then I think, in today's NFL, there is no building a longterm winning team these days.  It's all about the now.  That's why most teams are only good for a few years and then they get reshuffled.  So looking at Manning for the now is definetely a good move on paper, if he stays healthy.

And Gellar, you realize we can have a conversation without throwing insults everytime we talk?  You should try it.

[gellar]

I may be speaking down to you, but I'm not insulting you (in this particular case).  There's a subtle difference there.

[gellar]

And I still actually can't believe you would be happier betting on Flynn being any good versus Manning being healthy.  Doctor's can show whether someone is healthy.  You can't tell if anyone is any good based on three NFL games, especially when most of them are meaningless and you are on a team that wins a lot to begin with.  Just about every shitty backup QB in the league has had three good games.  Rex Grossman had half a good season, for fuck's sake.

[rshetts2]

Being a Lions fan I can sum up the risks of banking on a back up being the next star quarterback in the league:    Scott Mitchell

'Nuff said!

[naednek]

Just so it's written in word....  I'm fine if we sign Manning.  I'm just voicing my reservations.  Because I'm sure this discussion will be brought up later in the season.

[gellar]

Just so it's written in word....  I'm fine if we sign Manning.  I'm just voicing my reservations.  Because I'm sure this discussion will be brought up later in the season.

I'm pretty sure literally everyone who knows anything about football has reservations about Manning's health.  Everyone knows that as a caveat.

[leo8877]

Rumors are Denver is offering Manning 90 million. Not sure how much is incentives vs base.

[gellar]

Rumors are Denver is offering Manning 90 million. Not sure how much is incentives vs base.

Yeah if it comes down to money, I can't see the 49ers being able to match what Denver offers.

I actually still think he signs in Tennessee.

[Eightball]

Just so it's written in word....  I'm fine if we sign Manning.  I'm just voicing my reservations.  Because I'm sure this discussion will be brought up later in the season.

I'm pretty sure literally everyone who knows anything about football has reservations about Manning's health.  Everyone knows that as a caveat.

That's the primary reason I didn't want the Skins picking him up.  I'm convinced if Peyton was a Redskin, on his first drop back in preaseason, he'd get hit and break in half.  Career over.

Manning deserves better than that.  And deserves better than playing for the Skins, of course...