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Author Topic: New Laptop: Apple or Windows  (Read 1645 times)
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ATB
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« on: February 14, 2012, 09:27:03 PM »

We're looking at getting a new laptop.  Our first in 6 years.  Do I finally buy into the cult of Apple or should I stick with a windows based platform.

Machine will not be used for gaming.  Price points are a concern for an Apple (as it would be almost 2x of what we want to spend) , but if it can last as long as our current windows based system and is as awesome as everyone seems to say they are, it might be worth eating the costs.

Thoughts/Advice?
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 09:51:37 PM »

We've done this a few times before.  Here's a recent link to a good discussion:  http://gamingtrend.com/forums/hardware-software-hell/mac-or-pc/

You've stated what you're not going to be using the machine for... but what are you going to be using the machine for?  Just general browsing of the internet and light word processing?  Get a Windows machine then, the benefit of a Mac goes away for basic tasks.
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 10:18:46 PM »

Quote from: ATB on February 14, 2012, 09:27:03 PM

We're looking at getting a new laptop.  Our first in 6 years.  Do I finally buy into the cult of Apple or should I stick with a windows based platform.

Machine will not be used for gaming.  Price points are a concern for an Apple (as it would be almost 2x of what we want to spend) , but if it can last as long as our current windows based system and is as awesome as everyone seems to say they are, it might be worth eating the costs.

Thoughts/Advice?

Long story short, if you're invested in the Apple world (e.g., you use iTunes a lot, you've got a couple of iPods and an AppleTV, etc) a Mac is a good option. If you plan on reselling your box down the road, Mac is a good option. If these don't apply and you're good with Windows 7, go Windows. If you want to save a ton of scratch and hate Windows, install Ubuntu.  icon_wink
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rittchard
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 10:19:38 PM »

Quote from: ATB on February 14, 2012, 09:27:03 PM

We're looking at getting a new laptop.  Our first in 6 years.  Do I finally buy into the cult of Apple or should I stick with a windows based platform.

Machine will not be used for gaming.  Price points are a concern for an Apple (as it would be almost 2x of what we want to spend) , but if it can last as long as our current windows based system and is as awesome as everyone seems to say they are, it might be worth eating the costs.

Thoughts/Advice?

What Gellar said.  Need a little more detail as to what the machine is for, what your desired price point is, etc.  Since it's a laptop do you need it for travel?  Is screen size a concern?  Do you need a lot of storage and/or RAM?  Do you need a CD/DVD (or Blu-Ray) drive?

I've never owned a Macbook Pro but have always been intrigued.  However I have owned a version of nearly every Macbook Air release, and I absolutely love the MBA line.  Lowest end model is at $999 which is a nice price point for a so-called "ultrabook".

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_air

You give up some power and a built-in DVD drive, but you gain an incredibly light and slick machine that is very powerful relatively speaking.  I've run the latest and greatest games on mine (at lowest settings of course).  

And always keep in mind it's very easy to set up a dual boot to Windows if you need it for some reason.
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 10:33:12 PM »

whooops, after further consideration, we discuss other electronic items in everything but gaming, so there's really no reason for this to be there too.  Sorry for the merry go round

Hope you enjoyed the ride.
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 12:11:30 AM »

Quote from: naednek on February 14, 2012, 10:33:12 PM

whooops, after further consideration, we discuss other electronic items in everything but gaming, so there's really no reason for this to be there too.  Sorry for the merry go round

Hope you enjoyed the ride.

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Devil
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 02:04:32 AM »

I'm the opposite of the guys above - I don't care what you are using it for...

6 years ago I switched to Mac after a lifetime of hating and I couldn't imagine going back.

Use Windows and Linux at work every day, so I'm still involved with other OSes but would never use them if I had a choice.

Unless you like boot screens, bios changes, driver upgrades and hardware swapping, go with a Mac.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 02:06:07 AM by Devil » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 02:33:49 AM »

Quote from: Devil on February 15, 2012, 02:04:32 AM

I'm the opposite of the guys above - I don't care what you are using it for...

6 years ago I switched to Mac after a lifetime of hating and I couldn't imagine going back.

Use Windows and Linux at work every day, so I'm still involved with other OSes but would never use them if I had a choice.

Unless you like boot screens, bios changes, driver upgrades and hardware swapping, go with a Mac.

Don't get me wrong, I'm never personally buying a Windows machine again in my life... but that's more of a personal choice than anything else.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 02:42:06 AM »

Absolutely, but if your looking for personal advice, that's all I've got.

There's not math for this one.

 icon_biggrin
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 02:43:06 AM »

Quote from: Devil on February 15, 2012, 02:42:06 AM

Absolutely, but if your looking for personal advice, that's all I've got.

There's not math for this one.

 icon_biggrin

If Windows 7 hadn't released, I'd tell anyone who buys a Windows machine over OSX they were a total idiot.  Win7 is pretty good though.
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 03:57:28 AM »

I've had a 15" MacBook Pro for almost three years now and love it, but that's not because I'm an Apple fanatic or because MacOS is vastly better than Windows (I don't think it is).  I like my Mac because there was no other laptop on the market with the same combination of performance and compact form factor.  I think there is more competition for form factor now, but it's still hard to beat the sleek design of a MacBook when you want something that's easily portable.  
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 01:42:19 AM by disarm » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 05:01:46 AM »

Save yourself some money, windows all the way!

 
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 05:32:33 AM »

Quote from: disarm on February 15, 2012, 03:57:28 AM

I've had a 15" MacBook Pro for almost three years now and love it, but that's not because I'm an Apple fanatic or because MacOS is vastly better than Windows (I don't think it is).  I like my Mac because there was no other laptop on the market with the same combination of performance and compact form factor.  I think there is more competition for form factor now, but it's still hard to beat the sleek design of a MacBook when you want some that's easily portable. 

The new HP Envys are pretty fuckin' snazzy.  They are a pretty blatant rip off the MBP design, but it's still a nice box.
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 05:33:28 AM »

Get Apple, but wait until the MBP refresh here "soon"!
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 07:16:37 AM »

Quote from: Devil on February 15, 2012, 02:04:32 AM


Unless you like boot screens, bios changes, driver upgrades and hardware swapping, go with a Mac.

Boot screens- are you referring to the thing that flashes on my screen for a fraction of a second and then is gone? Yeah I hate it. (roll eyes)

And I've never done bios upgrades or hardware swapping with the exception of throwing in some extra RAM which was so easy that even a nincompoop like myself could do it.
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2012, 11:44:25 AM »

I've been really happy with the 15" Lenovo I picked up for $300 last August.  If it's going to be a non-primary, couch browsing kind of computer, I don't see any way to justify the price of a Mac.  If you're looking for one as a more primary machine, then yeah, you might want the extra power, but man, Mac laptops are expensive.
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2012, 01:40:05 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 14, 2012, 10:19:38 PM

And always keep in mind it's very easy to set up a dual boot to Windows if you need it for some reason.

That goes both ways - you could also dual-boot or run a VM of a Hackintosh.

I don't think Adam is looking for complexity in this though - I'd suggest waiting until the new Macs and Windows 8 (beta, at the very least) is out before deciding. The new W8 lenovo tablet / laptop looks fantastic.
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2012, 01:55:54 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on February 15, 2012, 07:16:37 AM

Quote from: Devil on February 15, 2012, 02:04:32 AM


Unless you like boot screens, bios changes, driver upgrades and hardware swapping, go with a Mac.

Boot screens- are you referring to the thing that flashes on my screen for a fraction of a second and then is gone? Yeah I hate it. (roll eyes)

And I've never done bios upgrades or hardware swapping with the exception of throwing in some extra RAM which was so easy that even a nincompoop like myself could do it.

Cool
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 03:50:55 PM »

Another vote for Mac here. I've had my MBP for two years and have been nothing but pleased with it. Size, battery life, gorgeous screen, mouse pad, and an amazing keyboard make this the best laptop I've ever owned.

Before the MBP I had never owned an apple product with the exception of an ipod. Now I'm fully vested in the cult. iphone, ipad 2, and we just replaced our Windows 7 clunker with a shiny imac 27.
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 04:01:49 PM »

Full disclosure:

I work for a place that sells PCs only.

I choose Windows. We service Macs all the time though; people come in wanting to BootCamp their Macs (dual boot iOS/Windows) and the Apple store won't help them as they don't support Windows. Even if you want your iPod/iPhone to sync with your PC? Sorry, out of luck. You want to use your 10 year old Hotmail account with your iPhone? No support at the Apple store.

Anyway, there are lots of sweet, sweet options (Samsung 9, Acer UX series, HP Folio 13, Toshiba Portege) that may not be AS slick as the MBP (which, admittedly is a gorgeous piece of hardware), but come close. Plus, they're waaaay less expensive.
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2012, 04:15:26 PM »

The last laptop I bought for myself was a Mac. At the time there wasn't much else out there that was as portable yet powerful enough, and it was stupidly easy to get windows on it so I can bounce around multiple systems easier than using GRUB or something else. My few issues with it which I'm sure at least one thing has probably been fixed is that:

It's a block of aluminum, so certain parts got uncomfortably hot for me. Never enough to burn but if I was doing a heavy compile or I wanted to game a bit the thing just got hot.
The edges are sharp which would cut into my wrists after typing for a long time.
Without having a proper delete key it made programming a bit more of a pain. Older versions of VI don't like backspace....

Those were my main beefs with it. But in general it took my beating the shit out of it through college and kept running.

Now some of my issues with MacOS, I hate the trend they are going towards if you have to actually use it to work on things going to a "task centric" model over a "windows centric" model is the wrong fucking move. I program so I need multiple things open at the same time, it takes longer for me to swipe or move to another app then if I just move the mouse over and write out something in a terminal window. Doing these full screen apps and so forth is the wrong direction. And it's not just Mac I know, Windows 8, Gnome 3, Ubuntu's Unity they are all going this direction.

Anyway, I would do what I did with my wife and get a good Sager or Asus or something laptop. They are just as powerful and are now just as sleek and portable as Macs are for a lot cheaper. I bought hers from XoticPC. The only thing that nobody has really caught up to mac is with the trackpad. I have yet to find another laptop that has as nice a trackpad as macs new glass one. And there are no bios changes/hardware changes with Windows laptops, they've been using UEFI just as Mac has for the past few years. And a good chunk them you can still change out the friggin battery if you need to. Unlike the new macs.

Or you can always go insane and get one of these: http://www.razerzone.com/blade
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2012, 05:11:35 PM »

Quote from: SkyLander on February 15, 2012, 04:15:26 PM


Or you can always go insane and get one of these: http://www.razerzone.com/blade

A laptop that comes with buttons for Rift? That's a little odd.
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2012, 05:52:40 PM »

It doesn't come with buttons for rift - Rift is supported by the Synapse 2.0 software. Other games are also supported, including SWTOR (IIRC), and others.

http://www.razerzone.com/switchblade-ui/what
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2012, 05:58:09 PM »

I use Macs at work at Windows at home, which is round the other way from most, and would have a hard time giving up one or the other. I do django/python work on my Mac; Lightroom and games on my PC. Photoshop on the Mac because that's where the license is. Coding on the PC because Microsoft hasn't seen fit to release a Visual Studio for OS X. Etcetera.

I don't think the "Macs are more expensive" line holds water anymore, and hasn't for years. Yes, you can buy a Windows laptop for $600. Just because Apple doesn't have an offering at that price point doesn't mean that (pound-for-pound) they're more expensive. When you factor in the software suite that Macs come with, the build quality and specs, the after-market service and the vasty superior resale value, I'm pretty sure the TCO is comparable.
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2012, 06:41:19 PM »

Top 8 laptops under $500
By David Eitelbach, Laptop

The price of Windows laptops continues to decline, with the average system costing just $456 in December 2011. However, you donít have to settle for something thatís underpowered or poorly made when you opt for a bargain notebook. You can get a second-generation Core i3 processor, 4GB of RAM, and 500GB hard drive in this price range, which is plenty of power for everyday computing

http://gadgetbox.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/07/10345693-top-8-laptops-under-500
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2012, 07:16:27 PM »

One other minor (or major depending on your POV) thing to note.  I've tried and owned far too many different notebooks and netbooks over the years, and the one thing no one has matched Apple on is the touchpad.  Even the guys who have pretty much stolen/cloned everything piece by piece haven't seemed to get the pad as nice as Apple's, maybe it's their patents or something.
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2012, 07:27:19 PM »

I enjoy my Microsoft Touch Mouse. biggrin
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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2012, 07:38:49 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 15, 2012, 01:40:05 PM

Quote from: rittchard on February 14, 2012, 10:19:38 PM

And always keep in mind it's very easy to set up a dual boot to Windows if you need it for some reason.

That goes both ways - you could also dual-boot or run a VM of a Hackintosh.

This is not equivalent. I have a hackintosh desktop, and it was a pain in the ass to setup. It's also a pain to maintain. It's even harder on a laptop to get it working correctly. Installing Bootcamp is trivial.
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2012, 07:49:54 PM »

Quote from: ∆nima on February 15, 2012, 07:38:49 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 15, 2012, 01:40:05 PM

Quote from: rittchard on February 14, 2012, 10:19:38 PM

And always keep in mind it's very easy to set up a dual boot to Windows if you need it for some reason.

That goes both ways - you could also dual-boot or run a VM of a Hackintosh.

This is not equivalent. I have a hackintosh desktop, and it was a pain in the ass to setup. It's also a pain to maintain. It's even harder on a laptop to get it working correctly. Installing Bootcamp is trivial.

And legal.
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2012, 07:59:29 PM »

Quote from: zinckiwi on February 15, 2012, 05:58:09 PM

I use Macs at work at Windows at home, which is round the other way from most, and would have a hard time giving up one or the other. I do django/python work on my Mac; Lightroom and games on my PC. Photoshop on the Mac because that's where the license is. Coding on the PC because Microsoft hasn't seen fit to release a Visual Studio for OS X. Etcetera.

I don't think the "Macs are more expensive" line holds water anymore, and hasn't for years. Yes, you can buy a Windows laptop for $600. Just because Apple doesn't have an offering at that price point doesn't mean that (pound-for-pound) they're more expensive. When you factor in the software suite that Macs come with, the build quality and specs, the after-market service and the vasty superior resale value, I'm pretty sure the TCO is comparable.

I too use Mac at work and PC at home.

I have tried Mac off and on over the years, and I do think OSX (without Lion) is just fine. But being a very long time Windows user I don't see much if anything that "beats" Windows. So IMO on the software side I would consider it a wash (although for myself I find doing things in Win quick and easy, but I chalk that up to familiarity).

On the hardware side, I will say that MBPs are light. My 17" HP is way too heavy and I hate traveling with it. The 15" MBP on the other hand is super light (although the SSD is probably a big part of the lightness).

So I would have to say if you don't want to spend the money for a Mac, don't. You really won't be missing out on much.
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« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2012, 08:59:22 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 15, 2012, 07:49:54 PM

Quote from: ∆nima on February 15, 2012, 07:38:49 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 15, 2012, 01:40:05 PM

Quote from: rittchard on February 14, 2012, 10:19:38 PM

And always keep in mind it's very easy to set up a dual boot to Windows if you need it for some reason.

That goes both ways - you could also dual-boot or run a VM of a Hackintosh.

This is not equivalent. I have a hackintosh desktop, and it was a pain in the ass to setup. It's also a pain to maintain. It's even harder on a laptop to get it working correctly. Installing Bootcamp is trivial.

And legal.

I said could - as in, not impossible (aka before they moved to an x86 compatible platform).

Bang for the buck, there is no way Apple stacks up to a PC. The TCO mentioned above is speculative at best.

I assisted my uncle in purchasing a laptop a few months ago, and he managed to get an ASUS i7 ~15" laptop with an NVIDIA G 550 for $615. It was a great deal, where the laptops MSRP was $1049. IT has 6-8GB of RAM with a multi-touch pad. The touchpad is functional, but it really isn't at the same level as the Mac touch interface.

Two important points here:

1) It was FAR cheaper than its Apple product comparison. Hell, it was far cheaper than the entry models.
2) Good luck finding discounted Apple products, even if you ARE interested in getting something older.

The argument goes "well they hold their value" - sure, and you pay that premium UP FRONT, even if they decide next year to drop price by 15% and then ALL existing market products are devalued.

I'd like to bring up, and squash, the "oo virus" argument - it's pretty thin considering a legit W7 is entitled to MS Security Essentials, so antivirus license shouldn't even factor into TCO.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Windows laptop. One of the nice things about it is that there are so many different ones out there, you can find exactly what meets your needs and preferences. The flexibility is there, and unless you have a mac-wired house (apple TV, etc) there really isn't a big need to go that route.

Since ATB already has Windows available on his other PC, there may also be networking benefits (eg: Homegroup) that would help him keep his stuff connected and available across the board.

I don't hate Apple, I don't love MSFT. I look at bang-for-buck, and Apple is a must-have product for the sake of being Apple. It still does the same thing that Windows does, except more expensive, less flexible, and has less market penetration when it comes to available software.

If you're trying to impress people, or you have used the OS and want that experience, then pay the money. If that isn't the case, take the cheaper - and more effective - route.
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« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2012, 09:22:19 PM »

"Bang for the buck" is a relative term.  To really evaluate a laptop/tablet/gadget, you have to actually live with it (as well as the alternatives) and use them before you can really understand if it was "worth" it.  That's why Apple products can often be difficult to actually measure.  If you go flat out by the base specifications, more often than not a PC product will seem far cheaper.  But when you get into the true nitty gritty of usage, you'll find it's not so obvious.  Subtle things like how good the keyboard is, how good the screen quality is, the feel and weight and ergonomics of the unit, the "instant on" nature of the MBA (not sure about the pro)... these are things that all attribute to the longterm enjoyment and usage of the laptop that are not specification oriented.  It's not about "impressing people" - it's about giving yourself the best possible user experience.  And for that, if you have the budget, Apple is a no-brainer.  People often think Apple users have some sort of hidden agenda to suck you into a cult, but in actuality, for most of us it's just that we want our friends and family to share the same sort of enjoyment and benefits we are.


- - -


Oh yeah, I looked over what it would take to do a Hackintosh scenario and it just seemed like a big hassle.  Whereas with Bootcamp, it's a builit-in part of the Mac OS, and they take you through it step by step.  If you can get an ISO file and a USB stick, it's a piece of cake process.
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« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2012, 09:51:35 PM »

Quote from: zinckiwi on February 15, 2012, 05:58:09 PM

I use Macs at work at Windows at home, which is round the other way from most, and would have a hard time giving up one or the other. I do django/python work on my Mac; Lightroom and games on my PC. Photoshop on the Mac because that's where the license is. Coding on the PC because Microsoft hasn't seen fit to release a Visual Studio for OS X. Etcetera.

I don't think the "Macs are more expensive" line holds water anymore, and hasn't for years. Yes, you can buy a Windows laptop for $600. Just because Apple doesn't have an offering at that price point doesn't mean that (pound-for-pound) they're more expensive. When you factor in the software suite that Macs come with, the build quality and specs, the after-market service and the vasty superior resale value, I'm pretty sure the TCO is comparable.

No, the TCO is not comparable. Apple is more expensive to own, plain and simple. I also disagree with Build Quality and Specs. The problem is, people buy consumer laptops which are plastic on plastic. If you compare a 15" MacBook Pro to a Dell E6520; the MBP is still going to be $300 more expensive up front and the E6520 is a better configuration and warranty. The E6520 has a magnesium alloy case, a faster i7 quad, three times the warranty (3 yr instead of 1) and a 1920x1080 15.6" screen (instead of 1440x900 15.4"). The weight on the E6520 is even similar at 5.5lbs (upto 6.7, depending on the battery) vs 5.6lbs. Even if you add Office 2010, you're still $200 ahead getting the Dell. Don't get me wrong, I've actively encouraged people to buy Apple in the past and will continue to do so in the future. Apple has a decent product and some people who purchase them are absolutely fanatical about them.

Quote from: rittchard on February 15, 2012, 09:22:19 PM

"Bang for the buck" is a relative term.  To really evaluate a laptop/tablet/gadget, you have to actually live with it (as well as the alternatives) and use them before you can really understand if it was "worth" it.  That's why Apple products can often be difficult to actually measure.  If you go flat out by the base specifications, more often than not a PC product will seem far cheaper.  But when you get into the true nitty gritty of usage, you'll find it's not so obvious.  Subtle things like how good the keyboard is, how good the screen quality is, the feel and weight and ergonomics of the unit, the "instant on" nature of the MBA (not sure about the pro)... these are things that all attribute to the longterm enjoyment and usage of the laptop that are not specification oriented.  It's not about "impressing people" - it's about giving yourself the best possible user experience.  And for that, if you have the budget, Apple is a no-brainer.  People often think Apple users have some sort of hidden agenda to suck you into a cult, but in actuality, for most of us it's just that we want our friends and family to share the same sort of enjoyment and benefits we are.

"Bang for the buck" is an economic concept and is measurable. You're setting up a strawman and knocking it down. Some people are going to find a great Windows laptop that just a bit better than an Apple and say the exact same thing you just did above. Don't get me wrong, Apple has done a great job marketing their product, which is why these arguments even exist at this point. The reality of it is, it's a mid-level laptop at a premium price because that's how they've marketed it: as a premium product. It's filled with the exact same Foxconn parts as every other laptop for better or worse.
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« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2012, 12:18:43 AM »

Ritt, I've lived with iOS since the 3G. I've had wp7 for ~6 months. I won't go back, not even for the larger app store. I never thought I'd select MS over apple for mobile.The experience of turning a system with instant on is not foreign to the PC - as Cal said- its all the same hardware. The only reasons I don't own a laptop is:I don't need one - my budget doesn't have room for wants.I don't particularly enjoy the keyboards.And FTR, my own preference would be a MBR, up until I saw that sexy Lenovo tablet/laptop hybrid from CES '12. Win8, based on my experience with Metro on my Focus, has me intrigued. slywink
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« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2012, 03:08:56 AM »

I've used a MBP the last couple of years since my employer has provided me one and I'd hate to go back to a Windows only laptop. Also if I could afford it personally my kids would have a Mac to use as they can royally screw up a windows PC... I had OSX running on thier Dell laptop for a while via the hackintosh community and it ran fine for quite a while and they never infected/screwed it up.It finally got hosed by an update tho.

So short story is if kids will be using it, get a Mac....
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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2012, 08:54:54 PM »

Also,

If I, growing up, didn't have DOS and Windows, I likely wouldn't know nearly as much about PCs as I do today.

Give kids the chance to absorb new things.

In that regard, give em Linux. biggrin
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« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2012, 09:25:43 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 16, 2012, 12:18:43 AM

The experience of turning a system with instant on is not foreign to the PC - as Cal said- its all the same hardware.

That's an interesting statement, because the MBA had this feature in 2008 when it debuted.  When I say instant on, I mean instant on (not the conventional "wake from sleep"), and that means immediate access to internet, etc. and everything as soon as you open the cover.  Over THREE YEARS later, the Asus Zenbook (which I also own, BTW) advertises "2 second resume" - and is the only PC based laptop I've used that has a comparable "instant on" kind of experience. 
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« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2012, 09:42:59 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 16, 2012, 09:25:43 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 16, 2012, 12:18:43 AM

The experience of turning a system with instant on is not foreign to the PC - as Cal said- its all the same hardware.

That's an interesting statement, because the MBA had this feature in 2008 when it debuted.  When I say instant on, I mean instant on (not the conventional "wake from sleep"), and that means immediate access to internet, etc. and everything as soon as you open the cover.  Over THREE YEARS later, the Asus Zenbook (which I also own, BTW) advertises "2 second resume" - and is the only PC based laptop I've used that has a comparable "instant on" kind of experience. 

Asus was shipping an instant-on operating system on their motherboards since around the same time (2008). Asus' version was called Express Gate and would boot into a Linux-derivative in about 5 seconds. Dell has had something similar on their Latitude line called Latitude ON since 2009.
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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2012, 11:22:19 PM »

Quote from: Calavera on February 16, 2012, 09:42:59 PM

Quote from: rittchard on February 16, 2012, 09:25:43 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 16, 2012, 12:18:43 AM

The experience of turning a system with instant on is not foreign to the PC - as Cal said- its all the same hardware.

That's an interesting statement, because the MBA had this feature in 2008 when it debuted.  When I say instant on, I mean instant on (not the conventional "wake from sleep"), and that means immediate access to internet, etc. and everything as soon as you open the cover.  Over THREE YEARS later, the Asus Zenbook (which I also own, BTW) advertises "2 second resume" - and is the only PC based laptop I've used that has a comparable "instant on" kind of experience. 

Asus was shipping an instant-on operating system on their motherboards since around the same time (2008). Asus' version was called Express Gate and would boot into a Linux-derivative in about 5 seconds. Dell has had something similar on their Latitude line called Latitude ON since 2009.

Comparing the sadness that is/was Express Gate with the full operating system of a Mac is just not a fair comparison, and only further emphasizes the problem with your "bang for the buck" argument.  Throwing together a list of features and specs can give you a quantified answer/number for comparison, but rarely tells the true story, and your statement above is a perfect example.  Anyone who has actually used a Macbook Air (again I don't know if this is true for MBP) and compared it to Express Gate will understand equating this two things as the same feature is really a (sad) joke.  In one case you get complete access to your entire system, all your applications, and the full power of your OS - whereas in the other you get access to a gimped shell OS, none of your real apps, and a mediocre browser and media player. 
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« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2012, 12:12:13 AM »

While I'm sure the instant-on feature of the MBA is nice, it's not necessarily a system-selling feature, at least for me, and at least at the cost difference to get the feature.  My laptop takes 10-25 seconds to boot when I open it, but that's well worth the savings.  It's another one of those subjective things that factors into the bang-for-the-buck equation.
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