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Author Topic: MSFT buys Nokia 7.2 bil - Win Phones here to stay  (Read 2168 times)
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Soulchilde
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« on: September 03, 2013, 09:34:46 AM »

MSFT to the rest of the world.. WinPhones not going anywhere.  We're here to stay!   finger
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 02:09:01 PM »

Rest of the world to Microsoft: we will continue to not buy them.

I look forward to the next wave of Windows phones... With mobile Kinect bundled in.
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 02:30:16 PM »

What the actual fuck.
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 03:06:29 PM »

I posted in the Mattrick thread, but the Xbox division will fall under Elop as well.
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 03:13:13 PM »

Zzzzzz
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2013, 03:24:58 PM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on September 03, 2013, 03:06:29 PM

I posted in the Mattrick thread, but the Xbox division will fall under Elop as well.

In a few months (after Balmer retires), it's a safe bet that Elop will run the entire company.

For the lulz.
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 03:29:07 PM »

41 megapixel phone had me intrigued, but the lag in getting CDMA phones out in a timely fashion killed any chance there.  Ultimately it probably had to be done to have any chance of being competitive in the mobile space - there's going to be an opportunity as Apple appears to be struggling a bit.

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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 05:46:15 PM »

I don't think I would want a 41 mp camera. At the max setting the files must be gigantic. Or maybe I just don't understand how that works lol.
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2013, 06:11:19 PM »

The phone industry has certainly shifted over the five years since I left AT&T Wireless.  Motorola owned by Google, Nokia owned by Microsoft.  What's next, LG's phone division being bought by HP to leverage the old Palm lineup back into the market?
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2013, 06:51:44 PM »

I don't see how that's going to change anything. A Nokia phone under Microsoft will still be a Microsoft phone.  Nokia has admitted that they haven't been doing very well since the alliance with MS.  With how much bad luck MS has had with phones, I foresee MS sinking them faster than the Titanic. Read an article and it was very clear they were clueless. They want to catch up to Apple and Android. Good luck, I guess. They're going to need a lot of it. They're going to need more than a buyout of Nokia technology to make Microsoft phones successful. They'll need a change in culture that will let it adapt to oncoming trends rather than a follower that arrives late in the game. Currently they've just been too slow to adapt.
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2013, 07:17:44 PM »

Quote from: JCC on September 03, 2013, 02:09:01 PM

I look forward to the next wave of Windows phones... With mobile Kinect bundled in.

where you talk to it and it responds? slywink

picked up the Nokia 920 for 20 bucks last Black Friday, after 10 months I'm kinda glad I didn't pay more.  Battery life is hit or miss, cookies seem to vanish if I power if off for the night, gave up on finding a good substitute for iTunes for mp3 management.. it has some nifty stuff but I may pay the premium to go back to the iPhone.
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2013, 07:29:19 PM »

I am always amazed at Microsoft's unique ability to never, ever learn from their mistakes.
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2013, 09:41:14 PM »

I actually like my windows phone...
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 11:35:53 PM »

All those Nokia employees better start updating their resumes quick because stuff is going to start going downhill soon.
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 04:26:31 PM »

Quote from: Octavious230 on September 03, 2013, 05:46:15 PM

I don't think I would want a 41 mp camera. At the max setting the files must be gigantic. Or maybe I just don't understand how that works lol.

It takes two pics simultaneously. One is 5MP, one is 36MP. The pixels are not independent, instead the phone creates "pixel cubes" or something like that.

the36MP files are roughly 13MB.\\

Here are some examples (the highres is the "big" shot. This is part of the "Zoom later" idea.

http://press.nokia.com/media/626/photo/list/all/nokia-lumia-1020-2/?tpage=20&prt=2
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 04:53:46 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 03, 2013, 07:17:44 PM

Quote from: JCC on September 03, 2013, 02:09:01 PM

I look forward to the next wave of Windows phones... With mobile Kinect bundled in.

where you talk to it and it responds? slywink

picked up the Nokia 920 for 20 bucks last Black Friday, after 10 months I'm kinda glad I didn't pay more.  Battery life is hit or miss, cookies seem to vanish if I power if off for the night, gave up on finding a good substitute for iTunes for mp3 management.. it has some nifty stuff but I may pay the premium to go back to the iPhone.

The music management thing is totally right. You *can* manage the files via explorer, but the music app is lacking and is less than intuitive.

As for the cookies loss and battery life, I'd suggest turning off some of the advanced features (NFC tap). A big one is making sure you don't connect to hidden WiFi networks.

Personally I'd tell you to back up your stuff and reset it entirely. Do you have the GDR2 and Amber updates?

Also, if you can unlock it, I'd GLADLY give you $20, no, $30 for the phone. biggrin biggrin Even the 920's camera is fantastic.

Quick shot, dusk with the sun behind me. The full size pic you can read the license plate ahead of me.

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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 07:51:20 PM »

Preach on, brotha, we are few, but we are MIGHTY!
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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 07:59:45 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 04, 2013, 04:53:46 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on September 03, 2013, 07:17:44 PM

Quote from: JCC on September 03, 2013, 02:09:01 PM

I look forward to the next wave of Windows phones... With mobile Kinect bundled in.

where you talk to it and it responds? slywink

picked up the Nokia 920 for 20 bucks last Black Friday, after 10 months I'm kinda glad I didn't pay more.  Battery life is hit or miss, cookies seem to vanish if I power if off for the night, gave up on finding a good substitute for iTunes for mp3 management.. it has some nifty stuff but I may pay the premium to go back to the iPhone.

The music management thing is totally right. You *can* manage the files via explorer, but the music app is lacking and is less than intuitive.

As for the cookies loss and battery life, I'd suggest turning off some of the advanced features (NFC tap). A big one is making sure you don't connect to hidden WiFi networks.

Personally I'd tell you to back up your stuff and reset it entirely. Do you have the GDR2 and Amber updates?

Also, if you can unlock it, I'd GLADLY give you $20, no, $30 for the phone. biggrin biggrin Even the 920's camera is fantastic.

Quick shot, dusk with the sun behind me. The full size pic you can read the license plate ahead of me.

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« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 08:07:15 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 10:37:34 PM »

A small follow up from the MS/Ballmer perspective:
Quote
Translating from this business-speak, buying Nokia’s phone business gives Microsoft a greater business opportunity, if it can succeed. Microsoft noted in its case for why the deal makes sense that it currently gets less than $10 in revenue from each Nokia Windows Phone sold, as compared to the $40 or so in profit margins Nokia stands to make.
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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 11:11:45 PM »

For more comparison of other phone industry purchase over the last decade:

In 2004, AT&T Wireless was purchased for >$41 billion.
In 2005, SBC purchased AT&T for $16 billion.
In 2011, Google acquired Motorola Mobility for $12.5 billion (Motorola Solutions exists as a separate company).
In 2011, AT&T attempted to purchase T-Mobile USA for $39 billion.  This failed, and they eventually merged with MetroPCS.   Deutsche Telekom's 72% stake in the merged company is valued at around $14.2 billion, yielding a $19.37 billion total value.
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« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2013, 11:23:25 PM »

It's a reasonable purchase, however, this assumes their product is good.

Windows phones are just unpopular, for various reasons, doesn't really matter if those reasons are real or not, but that it's a huge hurdle to overcome.

With so much computing, media, and network infrastructure going to mobile devices (including tablets), it's a very good idea for MS to get in heavy and try to extend the same dominance that's dwindling on PCs over to other platforms.

However, they're hitting a problem where that dominance isn't easily transformed into a desirable product in other markets, as we've seen time and time again when MS goes after another market.
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« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2013, 11:48:56 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on September 04, 2013, 11:23:25 PM

It's a reasonable purchase, however, this assumes their product is good.

Windows phones are just unpopular, for various reasons, doesn't really matter if those reasons are real or not, but that it's a huge hurdle to overcome.

With so much computing, media, and network infrastructure going to mobile devices (including tablets), it's a very good idea for MS to get in heavy and try to extend the same dominance that's dwindling on PCs over to other platforms.

However, they're hitting a problem where that dominance isn't easily transformed into a desirable product in other markets, as we've seen time and time again when MS goes after another market.

Sums up my feelings perfectly.  PC's as we know/knew them are going away and Microsoft can't just sit by and watch.  Having a windows 8 lenovo hybrid ultrabook/tablet for work I will say that their biggest issue now is Apps.  Their store sucks; both selection and pricing compared to other platforms.  Granted the other players had a head start but damn their apps suck.  They are going to have to invest in these greatly somehow or give away these new phones to build up a user base to make app creation more attractive.  At the end of the day if you don't have apps nobody wants the device even if it is cheaper than the competition.
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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2013, 02:24:30 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on September 04, 2013, 11:23:25 PM

It's a reasonable purchase, however, this assumes their product is good.

Windows phones are just unpopular, for various reasons, doesn't really matter if those reasons are real or not, but that it's a huge hurdle to overcome.

With so much computing, media, and network infrastructure going to mobile devices (including tablets), it's a very good idea for MS to get in heavy and try to extend the same dominance that's dwindling on PCs over to other platforms.

However, they're hitting a problem where that dominance isn't easily transformed into a desirable product in other markets, as we've seen time and time again when MS goes after another market.

People said this with the first Xbox too.

For every case you put up, the fact is, MS has also produced results - and while not every venture has succeeded in the way you might expect, you'd be surprised at how Redmond moves the ball forward.

You know the quadrants on the Xbox 360, and the four chat channels? That is almost DIRECTLY from the Microsoft GameVoice, a PC chat device sold years before the Xbox and XBL,  right down to the green lights in a ring.

The Windows Phone needs some help in the audio department, and they need to crack the corporate world - full, seamless integration with RDP, Exchange and Sharepoint would be huge. Not because everyone uses those things, but MS is one of the major backbones. IF they can convince corporations that their phones are more secure, better integrated and help business move forward, they'll be sending them home with employees regardless of the individuals desires.

My dad now has a "little girl phone" aka iPhone 5 (his words, not mine). He's a blackberry user and can't stand the onscreen keyboard or screen size. He grumbles "less" about my Nokia 920, though he'd still rather have a keyboard on his phone. It's interesting that analysts are still talking (even after the Nokia purchase) that BB may be next on the MSFT acquisition train.

Unlike the Nokia deal, MSFT would be looking at owning all those lovely RIM/BB patents, as well as the corporate connector server side software built to bring connectivity across devices. It wouldn't surprise me the least if we saw an announcement before years' end on BB being purchased by Microsoft.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 02:31:28 AM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2013, 04:49:02 AM »

Produced results is not the same as doing well in the short or long term. A bear crapping in the woods has produced a result.

Sure, MS has had a lot of tech to reuse, but for every success, there's often a major failure to offset it. For the success of the 360 as a software gaming platform, it was a failure hardware wise.

Nothing you said here goes against anything I said in my post honestly. Again, buying Nokia, and maybe BB in the future still doesn't mean they'll be able to cobble together a product that's as good, concise, and well featured like its competitors.

It's still a good decision in the long run to go after this market heavily. However, traditionally MS has had nothing but problems stemming from their own corporate culture when facing determined competition in a market where they weren't grandfathered in.

But there are some benefits to MS getting in on this game, not just by stupid patent shenanigans. They can leverage their software expertise to get some features into phones that have been missing, probably doing a better job of making the tablet a better all around computing device. However, I just get the feeling that Windows is actually holding them back, rather than being a good platform to base it from.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:58:56 AM by Turtle » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2013, 11:52:11 AM »

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 02:24:30 AM

Quote from: Turtle on September 04, 2013, 11:23:25 PM

It's a reasonable purchase, however, this assumes their product is good.

Windows phones are just unpopular, for various reasons, doesn't really matter if those reasons are real or not, but that it's a huge hurdle to overcome.

With so much computing, media, and network infrastructure going to mobile devices (including tablets), it's a very good idea for MS to get in heavy and try to extend the same dominance that's dwindling on PCs over to other platforms.

However, they're hitting a problem where that dominance isn't easily transformed into a desirable product in other markets, as we've seen time and time again when MS goes after another market.

People said this with the first Xbox too.

Yes but basically everyone gets a "do-over" after every generation. That doesn't happen with smartphones where new hardware gets introduced yearly and the OS gets tweaked every year. The Xbox got smashed by the PS2 but then with the next gen everyone started at zero again. That is NOT going to happen with smartphones.
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« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2013, 12:00:35 PM »

My point is that the *exact* same thing was said of the original Xbox. MS had GFW out already, and never took hold. As was mentioned earlier - a common dev platform for PC, Tablet (both win8.1, and win8.1 RT), console and phone platforms? It's a pretty juicy market.

You'll also note (turtle) that you didn't speak to the corporate push. That is *huge* ... it's how Office dominated the 80's and 90's, and is still relevant *today*. It's the same reason WinXP just went off support a year or two ago, even though it was ancient by computing standards.
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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 01:25:41 PM »

You need to realize that the reason why MS dominated in those areas is because that corporate push was led by windows domination of the is market, with no one that could complete.

They can't leverage and bully with that windows dominance in these markets. It means squat to these consumers and devs. Nor will people put up with any deficiencies that come from getting lazy in its dominance. One look at the crap they tried to shovel on us during those between years of dominance in office and windows, and now the xb1 too.

A common Dev platform is still only worth it if it's managed well and people even want to use it in the first place.
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« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2013, 02:13:21 PM »

How could you possibly say the xb1 is crap? I mean seriously we haven't even seen it yet. Showing some serious bias there with that comment. It looks to be a great system. Maybe not your system of choice but it almost certainly won't be a failure or crap.
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2013, 03:03:23 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 02:24:30 AM

The Windows Phone needs some help in the audio department, and they need to crack the corporate world - full, seamless integration with RDP, Exchange and Sharepoint would be huge. Not because everyone uses those things, but MS is one of the major backbones. IF they can convince corporations that their phones are more secure, better integrated and help business move forward, they'll be sending them home with employees regardless of the individuals desires.

Yep, that's pretty much what they should do and need to do.  Whether they can do it, we'll see.
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« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2013, 03:22:03 PM »

Quote from: Freezer-TPF- on September 05, 2013, 03:03:23 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 02:24:30 AM

The Windows Phone needs some help in the audio department, and they need to crack the corporate world - full, seamless integration with RDP, Exchange and Sharepoint would be huge. Not because everyone uses those things, but MS is one of the major backbones. IF they can convince corporations that their phones are more secure, better integrated and help business move forward, they'll be sending them home with employees regardless of the individuals desires.

Yep, that's pretty much what they should do and need to do.  Whether they can do it, we'll see.

I'm not sold on this.  Blackberry made that play to some degree, and the iPhone just swept through.  iPhone has gotten a lot better in regards to business integration, but in its early years it was a mess yet it was still the device for sales folks and executives to own.  We had to jump through a lot of hoops at my company to support it when it first came out.  In the end, cool and fun was more important than business functional.  Now times are different and the shine has worn off the iphone a bit, but just having really good business tools wont be enough. 
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« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 04:31:32 PM »

Quote from: Blackhawk on September 03, 2013, 07:29:19 PM

I am always amazed at Microsoft's unique ability to never, ever learn from their mistakes.

Yep.  How in the blue fuck do they expect to recoup that investment?
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« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 04:45:58 PM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on September 05, 2013, 03:22:03 PM

Quote from: Freezer-TPF- on September 05, 2013, 03:03:23 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 02:24:30 AM

The Windows Phone needs some help in the audio department, and they need to crack the corporate world - full, seamless integration with RDP, Exchange and Sharepoint would be huge. Not because everyone uses those things, but MS is one of the major backbones. IF they can convince corporations that their phones are more secure, better integrated and help business move forward, they'll be sending them home with employees regardless of the individuals desires.

Yep, that's pretty much what they should do and need to do.  Whether they can do it, we'll see.

I'm not sold on this.  Blackberry made that play to some degree, and the iPhone just swept through.  iPhone has gotten a lot better in regards to business integration, but in its early years it was a mess yet it was still the device for sales folks and executives to own.  We had to jump through a lot of hoops at my company to support it when it first came out.  In the end, cool and fun was more important than business functional.  Now times are different and the shine has worn off the iphone a bit, but just having really good business tools wont be enough. 

Security (or the illusion of it) trumps all. Don't ask why - it simply does.
To get a better market foothold, MS should be rebranding the Nokia Lumia line to the MS Lumia line, and giving 521's to carriers as an exclusive contract to act as temp replacement phones - this exposes existing Android/iPhone users to what its actually like to have a simple and elegant phone OS (music app and notification centre are their obvious weakpoints from the product level, and while their store has significantly increased, it needs far more visible apps like Instagram on-board).
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« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 04:58:34 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 04:45:58 PM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on September 05, 2013, 03:22:03 PM

Quote from: Freezer-TPF- on September 05, 2013, 03:03:23 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 02:24:30 AM

The Windows Phone needs some help in the audio department, and they need to crack the corporate world - full, seamless integration with RDP, Exchange and Sharepoint would be huge. Not because everyone uses those things, but MS is one of the major backbones. IF they can convince corporations that their phones are more secure, better integrated and help business move forward, they'll be sending them home with employees regardless of the individuals desires.

Yep, that's pretty much what they should do and need to do.  Whether they can do it, we'll see.

I'm not sold on this.  Blackberry made that play to some degree, and the iPhone just swept through.  iPhone has gotten a lot better in regards to business integration, but in its early years it was a mess yet it was still the device for sales folks and executives to own.  We had to jump through a lot of hoops at my company to support it when it first came out.  In the end, cool and fun was more important than business functional.  Now times are different and the shine has worn off the iphone a bit, but just having really good business tools wont be enough. 

Security (or the illusion of it) trumps all. Don't ask why - it simply does.

And that's why the iPhone beat Blackberry in corporations....oh wait the iPhone was an insecure mess when it came out.
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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 06:41:18 PM »

No, RIM failed to keep relevant. That has nothing to do with corporations. BTW, we still have BB here - while the rest of us use crappy cell phones (which we then use our own devies with their sim card), managers get Blackberry devices.
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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2013, 07:18:20 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on September 05, 2013, 01:25:41 PM

You need to realize that the reason why MS dominated in those areas is because that corporate push was led by windows domination of the is market, with no one that could complete.

They can't leverage and bully with that windows dominance in these markets. It means squat to these consumers and devs. Nor will people put up with any deficiencies that come from getting lazy in its dominance. One look at the crap they tried to shovel on us during those between years of dominance in office and windows, and now the xb1 too.

A common Dev platform is still only worth it if it's managed well and people even want to use it in the first place.

This. They don't have any dominance in this specific market. After all these years trying to get in the market, they're still considered a new kid on the block, struggling to gain a foothold, and mostly because they've come in late in the game, every single time. They need to build a better brand and culture that will allow them to anticipate upcoming trends. They might as well hire a trend analyst. 

They've gotta work on rebuilding their reputation in the market. One thing that they could do is spin off the phones into a new company with a name unrelated to MS, which would help both in creating a distinctive image and brand not associated with MS's mobile reputation, otherwise, if it continues as is, they could just end up in the same situation as their past efforts, which would be a negative association.
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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2013, 07:19:58 PM »

Quote from: Chrisoc13 on September 05, 2013, 02:13:21 PM

How could you possibly say the xb1 is crap? I mean seriously we haven't even seen it yet. Showing some serious bias there with that comment. It looks to be a great system. Maybe not your system of choice but it almost certainly won't be a failure or crap.

Don't know if you've been following anything from the past few months, but remember all the consumer unfriendly programs and features they initially touted for the XB1? That's what I'm talking about. The hardware may be fine, but the functionality was not until the people, and their competitors reacted. All the "positives" from those systems were only revealed after they had canceled it, so I don't count stuff like family sharing as real until they officially announced it.

That's a clear example of the kind of thinking that comes when you've had too much dominance in an area and try to leverage it without providing more positives.

In terms of business and corporate culture, it's valid to bring this up.
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gellar
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« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2013, 07:51:10 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 04:45:58 PM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on September 05, 2013, 03:22:03 PM

Quote from: Freezer-TPF- on September 05, 2013, 03:03:23 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 02:24:30 AM

The Windows Phone needs some help in the audio department, and they need to crack the corporate world - full, seamless integration with RDP, Exchange and Sharepoint would be huge. Not because everyone uses those things, but MS is one of the major backbones. IF they can convince corporations that their phones are more secure, better integrated and help business move forward, they'll be sending them home with employees regardless of the individuals desires.

Yep, that's pretty much what they should do and need to do.  Whether they can do it, we'll see.

I'm not sold on this.  Blackberry made that play to some degree, and the iPhone just swept through.  iPhone has gotten a lot better in regards to business integration, but in its early years it was a mess yet it was still the device for sales folks and executives to own.  We had to jump through a lot of hoops at my company to support it when it first came out.  In the end, cool and fun was more important than business functional.  Now times are different and the shine has worn off the iphone a bit, but just having really good business tools wont be enough. 

Security (or the illusion of it) trumps all. Don't ask why - it simply does.
To get a better market foothold, MS should be rebranding the Nokia Lumia line to the MS Lumia line, and giving 521's to carriers as an exclusive contract to act as temp replacement phones - this exposes existing Android/iPhone users to what its actually like to have a simple and elegant phone OS (music app and notification centre are their obvious weakpoints from the product level, and while their store has significantly increased, it needs far more visible apps like Instagram on-board).


It doesn't anymore.  I've been in Security for a long time.  Things have changed.  Consumerization is key.  There is not a single F500 company that doesn't allow iPhones currently or is not planning to very, very quickly.

If the user doesn't want it, it loses.  Period.  Very different than five+ years ago.

My mantra now when I'm designing product: one user in 100 cares about the IT features.  His vote may count for more than a single person, but it's never going to be enough to get past the other 99.  Design products for the 99.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2013, 11:22:11 PM »

Quote from: gellar on September 05, 2013, 07:51:10 PM



It doesn't anymore.  I've been in Security for a long time.  Things have changed.  Consumerization is key.  There is not a single F500 company that doesn't allow iPhones currently or is not planning to very, very quickly.



True.  I work for a decent sized bank.  We just went all-in on Apple (iPhones and iPads) for mobile because "it is what people are used to."  I tried to make an argument for Android but got the "too unsecured" excuse.  Windows/Surface wasn't even in the running or discussion.
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Purge
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« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2013, 11:53:11 PM »

If that's the case, WinPhone 8 should have already won hands down - its interface and layout is well ahead of Android - and this is coming from Wozniak.

My phone went out for repair on Friday of last week (mic issue when using it as a handset - I suspect sweat while using a neoprene armband caused the problem) - and I'm now using an LG L300 or something like that.

God, it feels like it was built by the Junk-ions - everything works ... but none of it does it classy or consistently. It *feels* free.

Were I interested in dabbling in modding my phone (as I have done in the past with iOS), yeah, maybe. But random reboots are happening on the stock product. And before someone goes waving an ice cream sandwich and getting all up in arms, the fact is that this is the world Google built - a fragmented user base, and everything is android regardless of quality or care or concern of the product it's landing on.

Now, how do I change the effen smileys from the stupid android bot to something that doesn't look like it just shat it's pants?
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2013, 12:04:51 AM »

Quote from: Purge on September 05, 2013, 11:53:11 PM

If that's the case, WinPhone 8 should have already won hands down - its interface and layout is well ahead of Android - and this is coming from Wozniak.



This article is from a year and a half ago.  Android has made some rather major improvements since then.
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