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Author Topic: MMA Primetime This Weekend: Who's In?  (Read 2235 times)
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ATB
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« on: May 29, 2008, 02:51:38 PM »

I'm about as casual an MMA fan as there is- I know some of the big names but probably couldn't pick most out of a line up- but I'm looking forward to the Kimbo Slice fight on CBS this weekend

From what I can tell he would get smacked around by the top tier talent, but the interviews I've seen of him make him a pretty likable guy.

I'll be tuning in for at least some of it...if I can remember to...Tongue
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 11:22:27 PM »

I didn't konw my girl Gina was ont he card eek AWESOMENESS!

EliteXC are putting perfect opponents up for Kimbo. Thompson is a puncher through and through, he lives and dies by the punch.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J02rPIZcakI&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dG6bkoeJ88Y

Baroni vs Villasenor should actually be good if you like punching again. They'll both be gassed by round 2 but I doubt it'll get there. Same as above.

Add Gina to the card and it's obvious EliteXC is doing their best to have the first major network fightcard be a punchers card. It's shame people aren't knowledgeable enough to know any better BUT at least it might get them inerested to learn more about MMA. I'm looking forward to it to see if it helps in the mainstream. UFC is still top dog but good on Elite for getting this deal.

I still maintain MMA is in the Olympics by 2016 or 2020. At least I hope so.
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2008, 07:32:56 AM »

Spike will also be airing a documentary on Chuck Liddell, followed by Chuck Liddell vs Wanderlei Silva, which was a great fight. So be sure to Tivo it if you haven't seen it yet.
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2008, 12:44:42 PM »

And lets not forget what could be the fight of the year,
Pulver vs Faber for the WECs Featherweight title, this Sunday on Versus.

A great weekend for MMA fans.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 12:49:05 PM by stimpy » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2008, 01:03:37 PM »

I'm so pissed that I won't be able to watch this.  I'm moving, so I no longer have a DVR.  I'll have to see if a friend can record it.  Hopefully this will catch on and more channels than Spike will show MMA.
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dback99
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2008, 01:42:33 PM »

Im MMA addicted, so im in.  The Kimbo fight could be interesting.  He's been training with Bas Rutten, who said he is a great student.  I really hope EliteXC builds up how he started as a streetfighter but has transformed into an MMA guy.

But I agree that the potential fight of the year is on Sunday in the WEC.  I think Faber - Pulver will be fantastic.  Faber really could own that weight class, as I don't see anyone close that can beat him.  Almost like a BJ Penn.   

Should be good times this weekend!

-Dback
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2008, 03:04:13 PM »

Yea, I'm in. It's in the TiVo. 
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2008, 03:58:48 PM »

It's on my Tivo, but I won't get it til Sunday due to the O's and Red Sox playing sunday during prime-time
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2008, 10:02:04 PM »

I will be watching. I have only seen the Kimbo street fights. It would take some serious attachments to stand up and fight Kimbo back in those days. I am interested to see how he does as a MMA fighter. Seeing Gina aka Crush fight will be interesting.
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 10:29:12 PM »

I've never seen an MMA match in my life but I'm in, just to see what Gina Carano can do in a real fight. Will they mention that she's undefeated in Joust before the match? slywink

- Ash
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2008, 10:45:20 PM »

Kimbo is a really good striker.  His last fight he dominated Tank Abbot...Now, granted it was Tank Abbot, so we didn't learn much.  His first fight I believe he submitted his opponent. 

Gina is a monster in the ring.  If you havent seen her fight, she is a real treat.  Great striker and actually been working on her submissions.  Im hoping she can be the next future ex Ms. Me smile 

-dback
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2008, 11:21:08 PM »

Quote from: Asharak on May 30, 2008, 10:29:12 PM

I've never seen an MMA match in my life but I'm in, just to see what Gina Carano can do in a real fight.

- Ash

this should give you some idea...
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2008, 12:23:27 AM »

Good Kimbo Article here
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2008, 03:54:19 AM »

Overall, pretty entertaining and I can see why it's a growing sport.  It was quite riveting.

I thought the women's fight was very solid. The chick who lost had no defense...she never kept her hands up.

I thought the stoppage over the eyeball sucked.  That was definitely the match of the night.

Kimbo needs to learn to use his knees.  There was wide open rib cage almost the whole time he was on the ground.  I thought the stoppage was premature, but upon replay you could tell that guy's lights were going out.  Probably a couple more hits and it would have been over. So a good stoppage but it probably could have gone another 10 seconds or so.
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Haavok1
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2008, 03:58:57 AM »

Thought the Kimbo fight could have been stopped in the previous round when he was on his back taking elbow after elbow with no defense.
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2008, 04:06:37 AM »

i was a little worried after a bit of a disappointing start with the first two fights, but the show really took off when the ladies hit the ring.  i won't spoil how the Carano vs Young fight ended, but i will say that i think it was the highlight of the night.  the middleweight title bout (Lawler vs Smith) started off great but was a serious letdown in the end.  they did redeem themselves a bit with the main event (Slice vs Thompson) though.  overall, i'd say it was a pretty good debut for MMA on primetime tv...started off with some nice striking matches, and ended with some really brutal ground fighting to make for a pretty well-rounded introduction to the sport for anyone who hasn't watched before.  my biggest criticism is that they really need to work on the presentation for next time...took 30 minutes for them to start the first fight, then they ran over their time slot by even more.

i'll save any further comments until i know others have seen it and don't have to worry about spoiling anything...

Quote from: Haavok1 on June 01, 2008, 03:58:57 AM

Thought the Kimbo fight could have been stopped in the previous round when he was on his back taking elbow after elbow with no defense.

i'm a little surprised they let that go on as well, but he was still reacting while taking those hits...didn't have a free arm to block the shots, but he was moving his head and trying to get free.  i think it was extremely close to ending there, but he had just enough activity to indicate a defensive effort.  i don't think the fight would have ended any differently had they not called it when they did though.
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tjg_marantz
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2008, 04:19:50 AM »

Quote from: Haavok1 on June 01, 2008, 03:58:57 AM

Thought the Kimbo fight could have been stopped in the previous round when he was on his back taking elbow after elbow with no defense.

Yes and no. A fighter has to intelligently defend themselves at all times. Granted Kimbo couldn't as he was in a crucifix position BUT he kept giving the thumbs up. Thompson had absolutely no power in those punches. They'll tire a guy out but they won't knock him out. I think it was okay they did not stop the fight then and there.

Spoiler for Hiden:
The stoppage was a little premature but once he popped his ear and then landed 4 brutal punches, he was watching teletubbies in his head. Towards the end of the fight like that, no sense prolonging it. I am annoyed that it'll overshadow what was a great fight(given the fighters in it). Kimbo actually didn't panic while on the bottom and that is something to build on. It was Thompson, not a finisher, but it's easy for a guy to panic nonetheless. Kimbo went three rounds, also a good thing. Maybe Bas has something of a good mid-high card fighter in there.

Too bad for the eye poke frown That was quite the tilt.

My girl Gina(back off suckas) got tested good. Hopefully, this movie/TV stuff won't keep affecting her training. Girl was getting tired.

Baroni/Villa, as expected really. Phil has a big mouth and should stick to commentating.

Apart from the two "controversial stoppages", I think Elite and CBS have to be happy with the card tonight. Those 2 hours and 45 minutes flew by on TV. I am sure it was longer for those atending live and having to go through all those commercial breaks though. Well done to all those involved.
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2008, 05:00:31 AM »

Thompson is wobbly from the second he slaps himself in the head before the staredown. I'm surprised he never went out, but I'm not surprised he completely gassed out after about four minutes and couldn't even finish Kimbo from the crucifix position. Stoppage due to ear explosion was just an embarassment. Thompson was getting schooled on his feet, but hey, he was getting schooled on his feet since the start of the fight. He certainly could have taken Kimbo down again and like...well at least he could have layed on him for the remainder of the fight. Get some ear-funk on him perhaps.

Please don't let Kimbo be the face of MMA. He can be the beard of MMA, maybe, but not the face.

The earlier fights weren't bad, though. Rap intros are stupid. The eye-poke stoppage was garbage. Give the guy his five minutes and then make the decision.

The talking heads are going to pan the hell out of this show.
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2008, 12:57:01 PM »

I think the doctors and the EliteXC people where being overly cautious. I guess I can understand that considereing it being the first MMA fight on major network TV. That was my first EliteXC viewing. I hated the pro wrestling style intros. Baroni was just retarded with the way he came in the arena. Seperate yourselves from that garbage.
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2008, 01:03:51 PM »

On the eye stoppage one I would lay the blame for it on the fighter.  He told the doctor twice that he couldnt see so she stopped the fight.  You cant say "Doc I cant see" and still expect to fight.

Once Kimbo made that guys ear explode it was the right call to stop it.  The guy was loopy and Kimbo was going to go right for that ear again if the fight continued.
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2008, 01:31:05 PM »

Quote from: tjg_marantz on June 01, 2008, 04:19:50 AM

Thompson had absolutely no power in those punches.

That was exactly my thought. Kimbo was getting hit but he wasn't getting hurt.  I stil think if he had used his knees more he could have gotten out of it.

Like I said previously, I'm not a big fan of MMA, but I was jumping up and down during the Kimbo fight.  I guess that's what he brings- he's a neat story and whether or not he fights tomato cans he was fun to watch.

But man was he gassed.
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2008, 02:09:52 PM »

Quote from: drifter on June 01, 2008, 01:03:51 PM

On the eye stoppage one I would lay the blame for it on the fighter.  He told the doctor twice that he couldnt see so she stopped the fight.  You cant say "Doc I cant see" and still expect to fight.

Once Kimbo made that guys ear explode it was the right call to stop it.  The guy was loopy and Kimbo was going to go right for that ear again if the fight continued.

I believe he said he couldn't see but requested his 5 minutes. I don't think the doctor should have asked twice in that short a span. Walk up to fighter, ask. Fighter says he can't see. Wait 5 minutes, ask again. Maybe that would have helped. But then, I won't pretend to know the rules that the doctors work under.
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2008, 02:48:01 PM »

As someone who was apparently right in the show's target demographic (24yo male, used to watch pro wrestling until I got tired of its silliness a couple years ago, brought to last night's show by Gina Carano's popularity and very willing to be "hooked" by a good product), I have to say I came away from it very torn.

The fighting itself was excellent. Good pace, good variety and good intensity, all without stooping to the cartoonish excesses that are the hallmark of pro wrestling (in the matches, I mean; as mori said, the out-of-match pyro, etc. was silly). The fact that the fights were real, as opposed to scripted, was readily apparent and it certainly added something to the tension of the matches. There's no question that there's a core product here that I could enjoy and that I can understand others enjoying.

Everything around the fighting, however, was pathetic.

First, one of the main reasons I stopped watching wrestling was the poor content/filler ratio - and last night's show was worse than any wrestling event I've ever watched. In a broadcast that exceeded two and a half hours, I counted a grand total of 33 minutes of action (approximate fight lengths: 1 minute, 1 minute, 6 minutes, 13 minutes, 12 minutes). That's 20% content, 80% filler. At a minimum, that makes this experiment a failure for CBS because it has absolutely guaranteed that I will never again watch a televised MMA event live. At best, I will TiVo the shows and skip over the 80% that is commercials and promos.

Second, the storyline and character elements were no better than wrestling. Assuming you accept the fantasy that is a pro wrestling storyline, the matches are unquestionably more dramatic than what was on display last night. The buildup in wrestling is better - weeks of smaller matches and mutual antagonizing mean there's a lot more to "settle" in the big match - and the fact that even the matches are scripted ensures that they never end in one-minute anticlimaxes. Also, the attempts last night to let us get to know the fighters were shallow and hampered by the athletes own inability to give good interviews. I enjoyed Gina Carano's fight but listening to her talk afterwards - for example, stumbling over almost saying that Kaitlin Young wasn't a very tough opponent - was painful. Yes, the fact that I knew it was the "real" Gina speaking and not some role-played character was appealing but I nonetheless came away wondering where the line is between boring reality and entertaining fantasy.

Third, as someone who was brought to the show by interest in a particular fighter, I was disappointed by the implication that Gina probably won't be fighting again for at least three months (based on the mentioning that she usually trains for nine weeks before a match). That's a horrible time lag for maintaining and increasing the enthusiasm of an interested viewer. Hell, by the time she fights again it's likely that the fall TV season will be starting and I'll have far less time to even consider watching another show. I hate to keep bringing up the wrestling comparisons (sorry, it's what I know) but most of the top performers are on TV every single week. As far as I can tell from Elite's website, there isn't even another show scheduled on CBS at this point, nevermind a promise that the main draws from tonight (for me, Gina and a rematch between Lawler and Smith) will be present.

In short: Good fighting. Bad show. No follow-through. I might watch another show if I happen to hear about it, if the card happens to interest me and if it's on at a convenient time. But I'm far from hooked.

- Ash
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2008, 03:52:02 PM »

Quote from: Asharak on June 01, 2008, 02:48:01 PM

First, one of the main reasons I stopped watching wrestling was the poor content/filler ratio - and last night's show was worse than any wrestling event I've ever watched. In a broadcast that exceeded two and a half hours, I counted a grand total of 33 minutes of action (approximate fight lengths: 1 minute, 1 minute, 6 minutes, 13 minutes, 12 minutes). That's 20% content, 80% filler. At a minimum, that makes this experiment a failure for CBS because it has absolutely guaranteed that I will never again watch a televised MMA event live. At best, I will TiVo the shows and skip over the 80% that is commercials and promos.

that's one of the problems inherent to televising MMA...you never know how long a match will last.  unlike fake wrestling, an MMA match can last anywhere from five seconds to roughly 25 minutes (depending on length and number of rounds).  if a match is over in less than a minute, you're left filling time...match goes to judge's decision and you're hoping the next one is short to stay on schedule.  that's the big failing that CBS had last night...wasted 30 minutes before starting the first fight, then ended the whole thing 45 minutes late due to a couple good matches.  i don't think the network is really the one to blame though.  it's just the nature of MMA and one of the reasons it's not really suited for live network tv.  as for "storylines," that's not what MMA is about, despite their efforts to make it look that way last night.  it's all about the fighting, and that's all most fans really care to see.

i did think it was funny that Gina almost let it slip that she didn't have a tough opponent.  she was a bit winded at the end, but it was pretty clear that she had control of that fight from the start and wasn't too challenged.  although Gina took a few good hits, i think comparing her face to Young's at the end of the match speaks for itself.
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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2008, 04:51:01 AM »

Tonight, the WEC showed a much better product (granted, they are owned by the UFC owners).  The two title fights were freaking fantastic!! I wish THAT was what would have been shown on CBS.  It would have given folks more of a true MMA feel..

-dback
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2008, 09:08:32 AM »

Quote from: dback99 on June 02, 2008, 04:51:01 AM

Tonight, the WEC showed a much better product (granted, they are owned by the UFC owners).  The two title fights were freaking fantastic!! I wish THAT was what would have been shown on CBS.  It would have given folks more of a true MMA feel..

-dback

i was just about to post about the WEC fights tonight...some really great matchups.  the bantamweight title fight was fantastic to watch.  the stand-up fighting was a great display of talent from both fighters, and the ground work was impressive as well.  i've never seen both guys go to the ground and put toeholds on each other at the same time...and both of them refused to tap out.  both of those fighters took incredible beatings and refused to give up.  i think the final call was appropriate and the right man won though.  if they could have shown something like that on CBS last night, i think they would have impressed a lot more people.

update...found a great picture of the simulataneous submission attempt...
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2008, 05:52:56 PM »

Quote from: dback99 on June 02, 2008, 04:51:01 AM

Tonight, the WEC showed a much better product (granted, they are owned by the UFC owners).  The two title fights were freaking fantastic!! I wish THAT was what would have been shown on CBS.  It would have given folks more of a true MMA feel..

-dback

Absolutely.  The EliteXC event was embarrassing for the sport. 

Kimbo is an AWFUL fighter, and I now believe Dana White's assertion that BJ Penn at 155 lbs could wipe the floor with Kimbo.  I don't understand how the fight was stopped when it was, when Slice was clearly on the ground, in worse shape, with no defense at the end of the 2nd round.  Lots of inexplicable calls on a godawful fight.

The Carano fight was decent, as she at least shows some technical skills and good accuracy with her punches, but the COMPLETE AND TOTAL lack of any sort of defense from her opponent was incredibly disappointing.  That and Carano was clearly gassed at the end.

The overall production quality was embarrassing as well.  They looked as if they were trying to market it as pro wrestling.  None of the 'athletes' on this card showcase what the sport is about.  Overall, terrible.

The WEC event on the other hand, showcased 2 fight of the year candidates and some excellent striking and submissions.  THAT was the event that should have been shown on CBS.

gellar
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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2008, 11:34:48 PM »

Quote from: gellar on June 02, 2008, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: dback99 on June 02, 2008, 04:51:01 AM

Tonight, the WEC showed a much better product (granted, they are owned by the UFC owners).  The two title fights were freaking fantastic!! I wish THAT was what would have been shown on CBS.  It would have given folks more of a true MMA feel..

-dback

Absolutely.  The EliteXC event was embarrassing for the sport. 

Kimbo is an AWFUL fighter, and I now believe Dana White's assertion that BJ Penn at 155 lbs could wipe the floor with Kimbo.  I don't understand how the fight was stopped when it was, when Slice was clearly on the ground, in worse shape, with no defense at the end of the 2nd round.  Lots of inexplicable calls on a godawful fight.

The Carano fight was decent, as she at least shows some technical skills and good accuracy with her punches, but the COMPLETE AND TOTAL lack of any sort of defense from her opponent was incredibly disappointing.  That and Carano was clearly gassed at the end.

The overall production quality was embarrassing as well.  They looked as if they were trying to market it as pro wrestling.  None of the 'athletes' on this card showcase what the sport is about.  Overall, terrible.

The WEC event on the other hand, showcased 2 fight of the year candidates and some excellent striking and submissions.  THAT was the event that should have been shown on CBS.

gellar

I agree, although I missed the WEC matches and now wished I had caught them. 

Both Kimbo and Thompson looked bad.  If Kimbo had any endurance at all he could have finished Thompson many times over.  And if Thompson had any jujitsu skills at all he could have submitted Kimbo 10 times.  The whole fight I was saying to the tv, "hes open hit him, knee him"  "god his arm is right there do a kimura"

Carano did well but she also needs lots of endurance work. 
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« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2008, 12:21:33 AM »

Well us non-purists had a great time.
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« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2008, 12:25:36 AM »

Asharak, helpful and friendly piece of advice: stop watching right now.  Reading your post made it clear to me that even if you see good MMA fights, you'll never be a fan of the sport.  The absolute dead tell-tale:

Quote
I was disappointed by the implication that Gina probably won't be fighting again for at least three months (based on the mentioning that she usually trains for nine weeks before a match). That's a horrible time lag for maintaining and increasing the enthusiasm of an interested viewer. Hell, by the time she fights again it's likely that the fall TV season will be starting and I'll have far less time to even consider watching another show. I hate to keep bringing up the wrestling comparisons (sorry, it's what I know) but most of the top performers are on TV every single week.

Pro wrestlers are executing a script.  While the physical acumen is tremendous, and they do deal with a superhuman amount of pain, it is still a scripted event where one can prepare before the match for the worst falls, hits, etc.  Real pugilistic endeavors involve no such niceties.  As a matter of fact, they draw on the exact opposite - you can expect your opponent to try and savage any wound you have, at whim and opportunity.  You cannot compare any sport with wrestling, as one is a real event centered on what the individual opposite you is trying to do, and the other, however physical and dangerous, is still acting.  Sorry, but this is fact.  Entertainment and pugilistic sports cannot be compared, no matter how physical the entertainment is.

That having been said, it is only EXTREMELY rare people that can engage on a regular basis in competitive pugilism (ie Mike Tyson in 85-86, and many of those admittedly were soup cans)*.  At the top level?  Almost none except Greatest of All Time Candidates (ie Sugar Ray Leonard in 80-81) can repeatedly get in the ring with top end competition on less than three months work.  It just takes too much mental focus and physical work.  Remember, unlike wrestlers, these people get tested for painkillers, roids, supplements, etc. 

* This reality is what makes the multi-fights in one night tournaments like K-1 tourney's so physical grueling- the winner isn't necessarily the best, just the one who avoided injury in the earlier rounds.  Watching Ernesto Hoost Shin kick Bob Sapp into near-oblivion, only too suddenly lose on a foolish exchange close-in with the 400lb Beast, but still advance because he broke a wrist and ribs on Sapp (who then couldn't continue in the tourney) isn't always fun.
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« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2008, 12:32:02 PM »

Good post.

I've never had it happen to me, but I assume having someone pound on you while you attempt to pound on them is quite exhausting.  I'd probably take a year between fights... paranoid
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« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2008, 02:42:04 PM »

At the end of the Slice fight, Thompson's asploded ear reminded me of this guy:
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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2008, 10:17:19 PM »

If you thought Thompson's ear was bad, Check out Lujan's ear in the second round (Pic#2)  vs Antonio Margarito...and then the then the Tenth (#14).  Thompson clearly had a bad ear coming into that fight.  Lujan just couldn't defend against right hooks from Margarito.

http://www.boxing-pics.com/view_gallery.cfm?gallery_id=148

Uh, might not be for the squeamish.  This is basically what CBS was trying to avoid last saturday.
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The price of great bacon is eternal vigilance.
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