Microsoft Surface

[Purge]

Cost as a tablet? Without the cover the 32GB model is 100 bux less than the "new" iPad.
If the business world takes notice of this, I can see the RTs moving out the door like crazy (office integration, etc).

I was never interested in the RT, personally. I'm waiting for the Pro model.

[Destructor]

The cover looks neat though.

I'm surprised that no 3rd party manfacturer has made their own version of it for the iPad (which odds are I'd buy).

But the RT Surface (the one listed for preorder above which does NOT run native Windows and native Windows applications (but instead an app-store like Apple/Google) is in a world of hurt. Why? How do you explain to the average (dumb) customer that despite the Microsoft logo all over the device, it doesn't run Windows stuff? I guarantee this will be a problem everywhere.

Also, in the post iPad world, I see this device failing and hard.

[Clanwolfer]

I'm skipping the RT, but the Pro model has the potential to be a really, really nice device for work, since I'll be able to run all my MS-native software on it, and it should be able to work with the online suite I use.

[leo8877]

Surface Pro coming in Jan for $900.  Good luck with that.

http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-surface-pro-arriving-in-january-starting-at-899-29258954/

[CeeKay]

Surface Pro coming in Jan for $900.  Good luck with that.

http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-surface-pro-arriving-in-january-starting-at-899-29258954/

plus you have to buy the keyboard separately.  Facepalm MS, Facepalm.

[Soulchilde]

Surface Pro coming in Jan for $900.  Good luck with that.

http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-surface-pro-arriving-in-january-starting-at-899-29258954/

plus you have to buy the keyboard separately.  Facepalm MS, Facepalm.

If Apple can do it I suppose MS figures they can do it too

[The Grue]

Surface Pro coming in Jan for $900.  Good luck with that.

http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-surface-pro-arriving-in-january-starting-at-899-29258954/

plus you have to buy the keyboard separately.  Facepalm MS, Facepalm.

If Apple can do it I suppose MS figures they can do it too

Apple isn't heavily marketing keyboard usage with their tablet.  MS certainly is and I bet people will get to the store and wonder why they don't get it included.

[Blackjack]

I guess it'll be interesting to see if other hardware makers come up with cheaper keyboards for Surface. $120-$130 keyboards for a $899 device. Does that make sense? You can certainly buy expensive keyboards for iPads but you can also get excellent keyboards or case/integrated keyboards for $50 or less.

The same could happen with Surface. It's just, MS is hawking their pricey keyboards so much in advertising, third party makers (Logitech etc.) might not see any point in offering something else.

fwiw, I did try a few Surface tablet models at a Microsoft store recently. I really want to like it and using Windows 8 on it. Instead, I felt confounded by the gestures system at every turn. On one tablet, the hardware Windows button (presumbly to return you too the main tiles hom screen) simply didn't seem to do anything, maybe it was broken. I'm sure with practice I could figure out simply how to get back to that screen once I'm in a running program, but it never felt intuitive to me. If there's a way to get a simple in-screen tutorial in Windows 8 on how to do things, that would probably help me and maybe others that feel lost when trying these.

[Purge]

I find it funny that a person who's nickname is based on a text-based adventure is concerning himself with peoples' expectations of an included keyboard.

[Purge]

I guess it'll be interesting to see if other hardware makers come up with cheaper keyboards for Surface. $120-$130 keyboards for a $899 device. Does that make sense? You can certainly buy expensive keyboards for iPads but you can also get excellent keyboards or case/integrated keyboards for $50 or less.

The same could happen with Surface. It's just, MS is hawking their pricey keyboards so much in advertising, third party makers (Logitech etc.) might not see any point in offering something else.

fwiw, I did try a few Surface tablet models at a Microsoft store recently. I really want to like it and using Windows 8 on it. Instead, I felt confounded by the gestures system at every turn. On one tablet, the hardware Windows button (presumbly to return you too the main tiles hom screen) simply didn't seem to do anything, maybe it was broken. I'm sure with practice I could figure out simply how to get back to that screen once I'm in a running program, but it never felt intuitive to me. If there's a way to get a simple in-screen tutorial in Windows 8 on how to do things, that would probably help me and maybe others that feel lost when trying these.

Few tips:

The edges are your controls ( generally you should slide-and-hold for a moment in my experience):

Left edge inwards (hold it down) alt-tabs back through your previous app, or lets you close it.

From top-down grabs the app window you're currently in- if your resolution supports it, you can "snap" it to the left or right side. Fantastic for movie/tv watching while browsing, though the built-in video player doesn't have enough options. If you drag the window to the bottom, it closes the app entirely.

Bottom-up sliding is your right-click (esp from the start menu).

Right-edge is your charms bar (Winkey+C is the keyboard shortcut). This is where search, devices (aka where you can tell your app to "print" or share, etc). The Start is there, so is the settings button. The bottom lets you access control panel-lite.

On the start screen, you can "select" tiles by touching them and flicking them up or down. You can also pinch in-or-out, and also (if supported) rotate two fingers to rotate images etc.

That's the crash course. Remember that the charms bar is context sensitive. If you're on the start screen you can start typing an app name, and it will filter it for you, and on the right show the other areas that you can apply that search to.

If you're in the Store, your "search" on charms will look for apps. You can be more specific by going into the app classification first, and then even filter further after performing a search.

[Purge]

I also agree that they should have a "This is Windows 8, here's how to use it" option. It makes it far more approachable. It should also include "Mouse and Keyboard" use as well, since I find it JUST AS FUNCTIONAL as Windows 7. The complaints about W8 not being mouse/keyboard friendly are grouchy people who happen to NEED to see an icon to click on it. The mouse use is simple, though I wish the scrollwheel behaviour would allow more customization rather than being tied to the speed of standard 1,2,3 line type config. (eg: being able to use the lean functions available on a fair number of mice).

You know, I've not tried out middle-click enough. I think I'm going to experiment.

Lastly, if you have a Win8 PC, I highly recommend the MS Touch mouse. Fan-freakin-tastic.

[Isgrimnur]

Who should they get this time around?  Who has the draw that 1/3 of the cast of Friends had back in the day?

[Purge]

Perhaps Ferb is available.

[The Grue]

I find it funny that a person who's nickname is based on a text-based adventure is concerning himself with peoples' expectations of an included keyboard.

>look

You are in an abandoned warehouse.  Over in the corner, you see a strange man.

>talk to strange man

The strange man babbles incoherently, but the one thing you can make out is "Purge".

>inventory

Your lone possession is a knife.

>stab strange man in the face over and over and over

A winner is you!

[CeeKay]

Who should they get this time around?  Who has the draw that 1/3 of the cast of Friends had back in the day?

maybe they can get one of the missing thirds.

[CeeKay]

I find it funny that a person who's nickname is based on a text-based adventure is concerning himself with peoples' expectations of an included keyboard.

>look

You are in an abandoned warehouse.  Over in the corner, you see a strange man.

>talk to strange man

The strange man babbles incoherently, but the one thing you can make out is "Purge".

>inventory

Your lone possession is a knife.

>stab strange man in the face over and over and over

A winner is you!

 

[CeeKay]

Surface Pro coming in Jan for $900.  Good luck with that.

http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-surface-pro-arriving-in-january-starting-at-899-29258954/

plus you have to buy the keyboard separately.  Facepalm MS, Facepalm.

If Apple can do it I suppose MS figures they can do it too

Apple isn't heavily marketing keyboard usage with their tablet.  MS certainly is and I bet people will get to the store and wonder why they don't get it included.

this.  it's like their big gimmick for the tablet; they should just eat the cost and give the keyboard away for free.

[CeeKay]

fwiw, I did try a few Surface tablet models at a Microsoft store recently. I really want to like it and using Windows 8 on it. Instead, I felt confounded by the gestures system at every turn. On one tablet, the hardware Windows button (presumbly to return you too the main tiles hom screen) simply didn't seem to do anything, maybe it was broken. I'm sure with practice I could figure out simply how to get back to that screen once I'm in a running program, but it never felt intuitive to me. If there's a way to get a simple in-screen tutorial in Windows 8 on how to do things, that would probably help me and maybe others that feel lost when trying these.

there's probably a talking paper clip somewhere.

[EngineNo9]

Wow, a $900 tablet without a keyboard.  I could do that... or just buy a $700 laptop and a $300 tablet. 

[Caine]

fwiw, I did try a few Surface tablet models at a Microsoft store recently. I really want to like it and using Windows 8 on it. Instead, I felt confounded by the gestures system at every turn. On one tablet, the hardware Windows button (presumbly to return you too the main tiles hom screen) simply didn't seem to do anything, maybe it was broken. I'm sure with practice I could figure out simply how to get back to that screen once I'm in a running program, but it never felt intuitive to me. If there's a way to get a simple in-screen tutorial in Windows 8 on how to do things, that would probably help me and maybe others that feel lost when trying these.

there's probably a talking paper clip somewhere.

Paper clip+tablet+high % of users who surf in the bathroom+front facing camera


"Hi.  It looks like you are wiping your ass.   I suggest a back to front motion.  Would you like me to post this to your Facebook wall?"

[Purge]

Wow, a $900 tablet without a keyboard.  I could do that... or just buy a $700 laptop and a $300 tablet. 

I think the point is that the Surface Pro isn't a tablet - with an i5, it's not restricted to only W8 native apps. Also, 900 != 700+300. Adding the surface keyboard however...

Personally, I'm interested, but at that price it'll have to wait till mid-next-year. The good thing is that MS is licensing the W8 platform out. If the Surface gains significant market share other mfgrs will be putting their own products out and having a marketplace where you have options, rather than the Apple-let-me-tell-you-what-you-want M.O.

I want a tablet-style PC with USB3, and allows me to run my desktop apps on it if I so choose. Right now, it's slim pickin's. No, I don't want a 2500 laptop.

[lildrgn]

Staples and Best Buy, here we come!

[CeeKay]

Pro gets bumped to February 9th.

[Soulchilde]

The more I research these tablet the more I am thinking of picking one up.  While the surface is powerful I am looking at the Lenovo Thinkpad tablet 2 which starts at 649.00 for the Win 8 Pro model, but utilizes the Intel Atom processor instead of the i3 or i5

[leo8877]

A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929110/surface-pro-disk-space-windows-8

[CeeKay]

A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929110/surface-pro-disk-space-windows-8

damn that's dumb.  at least some of it can be reclaimed but still....

[rittchard]

A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929110/surface-pro-disk-space-windows-8

damn that's dumb.  at least some of it can be reclaimed but still....

Not that I think it's a good idea, but it's not that different from any of the recent ultrabook designs, or for that matter from netbooks.  Same thing for Macbook Air, etc as well.

[Soulchilde]

A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929110/surface-pro-disk-space-windows-8

damn that's dumb.  at least some of it can be reclaimed but still....

Not that I think it's a good idea, but it's not that different from any of the recent ultrabook designs, or for that matter from netbooks.  Same thing for Macbook Air, etc as well.

Agree with Rittch here.  I'm still interested in a Win8 Tablet,so I've been researching the Acer W700 and the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2.  I think the knock on these 1st gen full Win8 tablets is that they are new and better refinement will come later down the line

[Caine]

A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929110/surface-pro-disk-space-windows-8

damn that's dumb.  at least some of it can be reclaimed but still....

Not that I think it's a good idea, but it's not that different from any of the recent ultrabook designs, or for that matter from netbooks.  Same thing for Macbook Air, etc as well.

Agree with Rittch here.  I'm still interested in a Win8 Tablet,so I've been researching the Acer W700 and the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2.  I think the knock on these 1st gen full Win8 tablets is that they are new and better refinement will come later down the line

We've got a few of the W700 tablets in our other office and they are solid machines.  We are actually considering getting these for testing.  We have one, but only for compatibility testing.

[Crusis]

A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929110/surface-pro-disk-space-windows-8

damn that's dumb.  at least some of it can be reclaimed but still....

Not that I think it's a good idea, but it's not that different from any of the recent ultrabook designs, or for that matter from netbooks.  Same thing for Macbook Air, etc as well.

I picked up a new macbook air last weekend and the 128 gig hard drive had 105 gigs free. The windows 8 ultrabook I returned and exchanged for the air? It had 40 gigs free when I fired it up. It is (as always) a symptom of windows.

[Purge]

A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929110/surface-pro-disk-space-windows-8

damn that's dumb.  at least some of it can be reclaimed but still....

Not that I think it's a good idea, but it's not that different from any of the recent ultrabook designs, or for that matter from netbooks.  Same thing for Macbook Air, etc as well.

I picked up a new macbook air last weekend and the 128 gig hard drive had 105 gigs free. The windows 8 ultrabook I returned and exchanged for the air? It had 40 gigs free when I fired it up. It is (as always) a symptom of windows.

Funny, but apparently there is some discrepancy then.

[Crusis]

A Microsoft spokesman told The Verge on Tuesday that when the Surface Pro ships on Feb. 9, a large portion of the unit's flash storage will be allocated to Windows 8, pre-installed apps and a recovery partition, leaving users a meager 36 to 65 percent of space to work with.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929110/surface-pro-disk-space-windows-8

damn that's dumb.  at least some of it can be reclaimed but still....

Not that I think it's a good idea, but it's not that different from any of the recent ultrabook designs, or for that matter from netbooks.  Same thing for Macbook Air, etc as well.

I picked up a new macbook air last weekend and the 128 gig hard drive had 105 gigs free. The windows 8 ultrabook I returned and exchanged for the air? It had 40 gigs free when I fired it up. It is (as always) a symptom of windows.

Funny, but apparently there is some discrepancy then.

Maybe it was 95ish. I checked with my son and he said it wasn't 105. I removed a few apps that I don't use as soon as I got the air so I'm probably remember the newly freed space. I'd check but I returned the machine (too cramped) and got a macbook 15" retina while they were on sale at BB this weekend.

They had Surfaces on display and they were pretty cool. Loading Word on a tablet was a trip. The little flat keyboard that came with it was really hard to type on. I had to really press down to get keys to register. Overall it was nice and snappy.

[Soulchilde]

Received my Acer Iconia W700 i3 and Seagate Wireless Plus yesterday and I am very happy with my purchases.  I see the potential in Win8 and the Metro interface  and the storage of the Seagate negates any of the negatives of the storage on the tablet. 

Backed up a few episodes of Walking Dead onto the drive and I am good to go without needing a internet connection


My only issue is that the HD screen makes utilizing desktop a pain.  So I brought a stylus pen and I should receive it today

[Purge]

Maybe it was 95ish. I checked with my son and he said it wasn't 105. I removed a few apps that I don't use as soon as I got the air so I'm probably remember the newly freed space. I'd check but I returned the machine (too cramped) and got a macbook 15" retina while they were on sale at BB this weekend.

They had Surfaces on display and they were pretty cool. Loading Word on a tablet was a trip. The little flat keyboard that came with it was really hard to type on. I had to really press down to get keys to register. Overall it was nice and snappy.

I'm not willing to drop a grand sight unseen on one - I was just pointing out the space comparison .

I'd love to have one, but I think I'm going to wait till G2 if at all. I used to be an early adopter - but with a kid in sports and a gf who is on disability, I'm fighting debt with whatever spare money doesn't go to meager living. Hell, I'm about to sell at least one of my consoles and sit on the cash to help with the holiday buy this fall. (720 *or* PS4 - a decade ago it would have been *and*)

[Clanwolfer]

Maybe it was 95ish. I checked with my son and he said it wasn't 105. I removed a few apps that I don't use as soon as I got the air so I'm probably remember the newly freed space. I'd check but I returned the machine (too cramped) and got a macbook 15" retina while they were on sale at BB this weekend.

They had Surfaces on display and they were pretty cool. Loading Word on a tablet was a trip. The little flat keyboard that came with it was really hard to type on. I had to really press down to get keys to register. Overall it was nice and snappy.

I'm not willing to drop a grand sight unseen on one - I was just pointing out the space comparison .

I'd love to have one, but I think I'm going to wait till G2 if at all. I used to be an early adopter - but with a kid in sports and a gf who is on disability, I'm fighting debt with whatever spare money doesn't go to meager living. Hell, I'm about to sell at least one of my consoles and sit on the cash to help with the holiday buy this fall. (720 *or* PS4 - a decade ago it would have been *and*)

Same for me - I like the idea, and I'm trying to be more involved in the MS mobile ecosystem, but I don't think based on what little buzz there is on the Pro plus middling early reviews that this is going to be a runaway success. I took the bullet on the Vita last year, someone else can early-adopt this time around. I'll get the 2nd-gen one that sheds a bit of weight and/or adds some battery life, and doesn't have noisy fan problems.

Which is a damn shame, because I want a mobile device that runs Project Pro and I'd rather have a consumer-focused device from a big name than have to go researching and learning about all the other ultrabook-tablet hybrids. Price is pretty secondary if they can actually build what I want to use, but it has to be best-in-class and it doesn't sound like the Surface is.

[Crusis]

Pretty good review and breakdown of the Surface Pro from Verge.

[Clanwolfer]

It sure sounds like the Pro was only launched in name only this weekend. Places that got them only got low single-digit numbers available, and it sounds like a lot of places didn't get any of the 128GB unit. Consider that plus the delays, and maybe Microsoft is having trouble with yield or supply chain that means that we're only going to see this trickling into the wild.

Which might actually work well for them, as by the time the things are generally available, they may have their 'accessory spine' connector ready to go (or more likely, announced but not released yet). If that includes some Type Cover-type devices with a better trackpad and some built-in battery, then I'll definitely consider picking one up.

[Destructor]

Well, that also means that Microsoft can go say that it sold out everywhere. Which I thought I heard I did.

[EngineNo9]

Well, that also means that Microsoft can go say that it sold out everywhere. Which I thought I heard I did.

Yes, I thought I heard I did, too. 

[Clanwolfer]

Sigh... I am weak... impressions of the 128GB Pro coming soon.