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Author Topic: Mel Gibson.....idiot  (Read 2792 times)
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Daehawk
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« on: October 30, 2004, 03:53:58 PM »

I used to think this guy was cool. He's done some of my favorite movies like Road Warrior and Leathal Weapon and stuff. But now that he's getting old he's becomecrazy with his religion and eithics. He now is opposing  the Govenator(who is himself a person i used to like but now cant stand) on stim cell research.

These has been actors are really getting annoying.
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Calvin
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2004, 04:30:46 PM »

I believe Gibson is opposing stem cell research that comes from fetuses, not adults, since he specifically said that in the interview. For what its worth-if a celebrity has something meaningful to say, I see no reason not to listen. If (its more a question of when) they say something stupid, ignore them, just as you would anybody else you ran into on the street offering an unsolicited opinion.

In my defense, I am a huge mel gibson fanboi, and personally, while I DO NOT agree with the position, I find it easy to at least conceptually understand a massively devout catholic who opposes embryonic stem cell research. Everything in perspective, hmmkay?
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\/\/olverine
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2004, 06:26:05 PM »

Yeah I was going to say I read that interview, its best you know the full story before you comment... Mel Gibson isn't crazy in my opinion, I just think he's coming out of the closet with a lot of his beliefs lately. And so far, it's gained him a commercially and critically acclaimed movie about Jesus and loads of cash in his pocket. I think he's far from crazy.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2004, 06:41:48 PM »

Im not religious so I dont care for his views. As for the Passion movie I dont care to watch it but my wife is and did try..she said it was just too violent and turned it off. To each his own.

I think they should allow stim cell research and cloning. Does'nt bother me in the least especially if it helps cures come about.Never know when you're going to get something you'll need one of those cures for.

I think Mel is like most others Ive seen in my life. Old ex druggies and older people in general come to fear death more and go super religious.Cant stand them. Its like when we've tried to have any passing of drinking laws here. They turn up and put them down. Hey buddy, if ya dont wanna drink then mind your own business and let us. Same with cloning. So they dont agree with it, then dont use cloned stuff smile Let laws be passed that allows it.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2004, 08:15:39 PM »

Daehawk, it's STEM cell research.  That's twice you've made the mistake.  smile
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RobbieD
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2004, 08:52:36 PM »

You know what bugs me the most is him thinking that the Govenor of California should call him back. Why does he have his number to begin with? I don't...as a resident of California I should have the same access as Mel Gibson. Dont'cha think?
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Daehawk
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2004, 09:26:58 PM »

lol I said Stim did'nt I...dangit..Stem...STEM!
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Lee
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2004, 09:43:58 PM »

Just tried to watch the Passion myself. Turned it off when the Romans were getting people to help carry the cross. If there was a plot, I missed it. Violence doesn't bother me, but watching a man get beat is not entertaining or enlightening. Not to say the movie wasn't well done, but if that is the best Mel can do, I truly thing he has lost it.

I am pretty tired of actors using their fame to express personal beliefs. They are people just like you and I and are no more deserving to a soap box than any of us. Entertain me, screw off if you want to express your religious or political beliefs to me.
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2004, 10:35:47 PM »

Quote from: "Lee"

I am pretty tired of actors using their fame to express personal beliefs. They are people just like you and I and are no more deserving to a soap box than any of us.

Two things:

1) You are correct in that they are no more deserving of a soap box than any of us.  But are they less deserving of a soap box just because they are famous?

2) Be sure you are consistent.  You may not like Mel Gibson's political beliefs.  But if your beef is against actors using their fame to express personal beliefs does that apply to all actors or only the ones you disagree with?  I'm not wild about either Mel Gibson or Michael Moore (to take two pretty polarizing examples).  But I believe they both have the right to express their views/beliefs.
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Jaddison
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2004, 01:09:28 AM »

The thing he has said that, to me, is the saddest comment on religion as a whole, is that his wife is going to hell because she is not a Catholic.  He said she is a saint, a good person, much better than he is, yet because she is nto a Catholic she is going to hell.
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wankerjr
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2004, 04:02:14 AM »

Quote from: "Jaddison"
The thing he has said that, to me, is the saddest comment on religion as a whole, is that his wife is going to hell because she is not a Catholic.  He said she is a saint, a good person, much better than he is, yet because she is nto a Catholic she is going to hell.


How is that a sad comment on religion as a whole?

You either believe or you don't. If one compromises one's religious beliefs how can a person profess to be a practitioner of said religion? He would be a hypocrite.

As long as he stays consistent in his beliefs then more power to him.
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Lee
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2004, 04:08:43 AM »

Because it's not up to man, it's up to God if there is one. And to be so sure you are right over someone you care about, at least keep it to yourself instead of announcing it to the world.

Anyway even if you are 100% sure in your head about god and the afterlife, there are billions of people who are equally sure about their beliefs. None of us know for sure, it's that simple. To imply that you know it all is idiotic.
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wankerjr
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2004, 04:22:33 AM »

Quote from: "Lee"
Because it's not up to man, it's up to God if there is one. And to be so sure you are right over someone you care about, at least keep it to yourself instead of announcing it to the world.

To imply that you know it all is idiotic.


I don't think Mel claimed to know it all. Maybe all in relation to his beliefs but then again I don't know about his religious doctrine.

His choice of using his wife as an example would seem tactless but then again expressing that aspect of his beliefs would have come across as mean spirited any which way.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2004, 07:05:29 AM »

Quote from: "Lee"
Because it's not up to man, it's up to God if there is one. And to be so sure you are right over someone you care about, at least keep it to yourself instead of announcing it to the world.



I think Gibson would agree with the first part.  Its not *his* decision that his wife would go to hell but a tenet of the faith that Gibson believes in.  I have no doubt that he would be happier than anyone to have her in Heaven with him no matter what his beliefs are.  

As far as announcing it to the world- when he decided to make "Passion" he opened up his religious beliefs to the scrutiny of the whole world.  In the process people asked him tough questions about his faith and he answered with what he honestly believed in.  To do any different would be hypocritical.

While I certainly don't agree with much of Gibson's ideals I admire him immensely as an actor and as a man who sticks by those ideals.
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karapcik
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2004, 10:32:50 AM »

Quote from: "Jaddison"
The thing he has said that, to me, is the saddest comment on religion as a whole, is that his wife is going to hell because she is not a Catholic.  He said she is a saint, a good person, much better than he is, yet because she is nto a Catholic she is going to hell.


I thought, since at least Vatican II, this wasn't a prevelant or even supported Catholic belief. At least it isn't what I hear (or heard) in church. But then again, maybe I'm not a good enough Catholic for old Mel.

Great that the man has the courage of his convictions (and the millions to back them up). To be honest his beliefs leave me more than a little cold and do effect my judgement of his works. Is it to be taken as entertainment, art, or ideology?  

I have more thoughts on this, but I'd further derail the thread. To see where I was going, consider this extra credit ponderer :

"When does orthodoxy stop being orthodoxy and start becoming fundamentalism or extremisim?"
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Jaddison
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2004, 02:29:18 PM »

Ah but there is the rub, Gibson doesn't adhere to Vatican II but is part of a group that does not believe in Vatican II...they are the hardcore Catholics.  Somehow that Pope I guess wasn't Pope enough for them.

As for his beliefs, the sad part again, is how religion is and has been used to to be exclusive instead of inclusive.  A God of love...but love only if you believe a certain way.  I don't admire what he said anymore than i admire the fanatical statements of any person who is sure their way is the only way and the rest of us are lost.  This is the same sort of dogma also used by despots and totalitarian regimes to ensure there is an us and a them.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2004, 02:41:34 PM »

Quote from: "Lee"
I am pretty tired of actors using their fame to express personal beliefs. They are people just like you and I and are no more deserving to a soap box than any of us. Entertain me, screw off if you want to express your religious or political beliefs to me.


I don't understand that idea at all.  If thereis an audience for your personal beliefs than why shouldn't you create something that audience will embrace?    There is no reason he shouldn't have made the movie.  He financed it himself...  I personally hope he makes more Christian movies, such as Job, The Gospels etc.
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2004, 03:02:22 PM »

Quote from: "Jaddison"
The thing he has said that, to me, is the saddest comment on religion as a whole, is that his wife is going to hell because she is not a Catholic.  He said she is a saint, a good person, much better than he is, yet because she is nto a Catholic she is going to hell.


According to the RC faith, you only need to repent your sins to secure your salvation. Regardless of faith, your sins dictate your path in the afterlife. link

I'm not Catholic, but my wife is. Frankly, I think she'll end up in purgatory longer than me.  :twisted:

As to the passion of christ, it's all about justifying the faith. Christ, whether you believe him to be the son of god or not, was used as a martyr for the christian beliefs.

The sheer violence and stark nature of the movie is meant to convey that suffering. It's like being able to watch the suffering of your god, in full pain-o-vision, from the comfort of your own couch. The problem with this is that we've become so accustomed to seeing violence on the screens we watch that people will take it for being just another movie. It kind of cheapens the whole martyrdom, in my mind.

I dunno, just my ideas on the subject.
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Jaddison
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2004, 03:30:54 PM »

Those were Mel's words about his wife not mine.

Only a very human God with very human emotions requires belief in said deity in order to gain admission to some special place called heaven...IMO.  Why God needs us to validate God has never made sense to me.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2004, 03:52:59 PM »

Without trying to sound like a jerk.....but I could care less what ANY celebrity thinks, good or bad.
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Lee
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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2004, 04:29:04 PM »

Quote from: "Eco-Logic"
Quote from: "Lee"
I am pretty tired of actors using their fame to express personal beliefs. They are people just like you and I and are no more deserving to a soap box than any of us. Entertain me, screw off if you want to express your religious or political beliefs to me.


I don't understand that idea at all.  If thereis an audience for your personal beliefs than why shouldn't you create something that audience will embrace?    There is no reason he shouldn't have made the movie.  He financed it himself...  I personally hope he makes more Christian movies, such as Job, The Gospels etc.


I have no problem with him making the movie. No one made me see it, I paid money to see it, so I opened myself up to it by choice.

My point more is that these people are just that, people. They are not anymore intelligent than your neighbor. I find it scary that Sean Penn can get up and give a speech about politics and anyone cares. It shouldn't be a news item that Mel thinks his wife is going to hell or that M&M thinks people should vote. I wish the press would stop reporting entertainers political beliefs, because if what they think matters to you, maybe you shouldn't be voting?
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Jaddison
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« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2004, 04:36:16 PM »

Quote
My point more is that these people are just that, people. They are not anymore intelligent than your neighbor. I find it scary that Sean Penn can get up and give a speech about politics and anyone cares. It shouldn't be a news item that Mel thinks his wife is going to hell or that M&M thinks people should vote. I wish the press would stop reporting entertainers political beliefs, because if what they think matters to you, maybe you shouldn't be voting?


I agree with but society is what it is right now and these people have a platform to speak.  In that light they have chosen to have a rather public discourse with the "audience", that is why I feel I can criticize or comment on what he said publicly.

His movie and the talk surrounding it pointed what I never really understood before.

Catholicism focuses more on the pain and suffering of Christ, this is why Catholics have christ on the cross as a symbol while most other christian faiths have an empty cross focusing more on the resuurection.
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