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Author Topic: Marriage...is there a point?  (Read 3992 times)
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Moliere
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« on: May 14, 2008, 09:39:08 PM »

Between PeteRock's Anniversary thread and Tokek's "asking permission" thread I thought it might be a good time to introduce the question "What purpose does getting married serve?" Let's start with the comic genius of Doug Stanhope. [NSFW profanity]

Seriously, did you really need the Church or Government to sanction your relationship? Are you plumbers looking to get a license so the government authorizes your continued love? Are you worried about going to hell because the local pedophile hasn't read some Latin in front of you and all your family/friends? Did you do it for the tax breaks? Is marriage a sign of greater commitment? Now that you're married you won't ever cheat on your spouse, because while you were dating for the last 5 years and living together that was always an option?

Check out the Wiki article for some background.
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rickfc
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 09:40:28 PM »

A little bitter, are we?   Roll Eyes
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coopasonic
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 09:44:51 PM »

So I can get half her stuff if she ever screws around.
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leo8877
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 09:46:16 PM »

No
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Moliere
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 09:47:11 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on May 14, 2008, 09:40:28 PM

A little bitter, are we?   Roll Eyes

Not at all. I think its a valid question to ask since its the premise of all these other questions being asked.
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Tokek
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 09:47:38 PM »

I figured it's something new I ought to try at least once

j/k  icon_lol
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SkyLander
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008, 09:54:16 PM »

http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,21557.0.html
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Teggy
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2008, 09:55:33 PM »

It's just a really nice way to show your love and commitment to your significant other, and a signal to others around you how much you love and are committed to your significant other.  It really doesn't matter what marriage meant in the 16th century, it matters what it means to you and your SO in the here and now.

If you want to get into a debate over whether married couples should have tax benefits over non-married couples, that's a completely different thread.
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depward
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2008, 10:02:45 PM »

When you know you want to be with someone the rest of your life, why not make it 'official'?
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The Grue
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2008, 10:12:46 PM »

There's probably a million reasons why marriage is a good thing and a million why it isn't.  However, probably the simplest one is that two people get together and figure its a nice sign of their commitment to each other and want to ceremonialize it.  One of those traditions that lives on, in other words.

I doubt people go into it thinking of the nice tax breaks and binding financials.
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2008, 10:16:05 PM »

Not sure. Let me go check with the wife.  saywhat icon_lol
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chaosraven
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2008, 10:16:07 PM »

Didn't want the kids to be "bastards"

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rickfc
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2008, 10:16:21 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 14, 2008, 09:47:11 PM

Quote from: rickfc on May 14, 2008, 09:40:28 PM

A little bitter, are we?   Roll Eyes

Not at all. I think its a valid question to ask since its the premise of all these other questions being asked.

It certainly seems that way as your OP comes across pretty abrasive, IMHO.

I think the point of marriage is going to differ from couple to couple.  Some may marry for convenience, while others may marry due to pressure from their families and/or partners.  As far as I am concerned, my wife and I wanted to make a lifelong commitment to each other, and to us, the institution of marriage carries a certain value in said commitment. 

Hope that helps.  slywink
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Arnir
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 10:20:15 PM »

Quote from: SkyLander on May 14, 2008, 09:54:16 PM


I think this thread pretty much did a good job on the not getting married front.  To some folks it is important, to others it isn't.  I don't think that either side will or wants to be converted.
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Eel Snave
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2008, 10:26:47 PM »

I've been married for 4 years now.  I'm not entirely qualified to speak on the subject since it hasn't been horribly long, but I see it this way:

Marriage can either be the best thing ever or the worst thing ever, depending on who you pick.  However, how you commit to the relationship makes a huge amount of difference.  If you're married and constantly dashing for the door in your head, your marriage won't work.

Also, love changes.  We always expect the whole butterflies thing to be what love really is, but it's not.  Love isn't butterflies; it's rolling over in bed in the middle of the night and seeing your wife with a mouthguard in so that she won't grind her teeth drooling on the pillow and her hair is a mess and still loving that person anyway, knowing that she feels the same way and will for the rest of her life.  A commitment between two people is one thing.  Marriage adds weight to the commitment.  If it's done the way it should be, e.g. till death do us part, it's a safety net.  It's a beautiful feeling, and if you have never experienced it or are too afraid to do it, I feel sorry for you.
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Moliere
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2008, 10:27:37 PM »

Quote from: Arnir on May 14, 2008, 10:20:15 PM

I don't think that either side will or wants to be converted.

Jesus
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Remus West2
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2008, 10:29:26 PM »

Quote from: chaosraven on May 14, 2008, 10:16:07 PM

Didn't want the kids to be "bastards"


If they already have kids then it is to late for that.
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2008, 10:29:36 PM »

Just a couple of kids who like to fuck, trying to make it honest... I get it...
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Arnir
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2008, 10:31:08 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 14, 2008, 10:27:37 PM

Quote from: Arnir on May 14, 2008, 10:20:15 PM

I don't think that either side will or wants to be converted.

Jesus
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Just stirthepot ?
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2008, 10:42:42 PM »

Marriage makes it harder for her to leave me when I get fat and/or lose my job/hair/mind.
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2008, 10:53:37 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 14, 2008, 10:27:37 PM

Quote from: Arnir on May 14, 2008, 10:20:15 PM

I don't think that either side will or wants to be converted.

Jesus
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Passes to Moses, goooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!
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PeteRock
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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2008, 11:03:25 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 14, 2008, 09:39:08 PM

Between PeteRock's Anniversary thread and Tokek's "asking permission" thread I thought it might be a good time to introduce the question "What purpose does getting married serve?"

Why does it need a "purpose".  You make it sound like a screwdriver.  Marriage is a formal union.  I don't look at it as having anything to do with the government or a particular religion.  I entered a union with my wife in order to make a lifelong commitment because that was the choice I wanted to make.

Quote
Seriously, did you really need the Church or Government to sanction your relationship? Are you plumbers looking to get a license so the government authorizes your continued love? Are you worried about going to hell because the local pedophile hasn't read some Latin in front of you and all your family/friends? Did you do it for the tax breaks? Is marriage a sign of greater commitment? Now that you're married you won't ever cheat on your spouse, because while you were dating for the last 5 years and living together that was always an option?

I don't need anyone to sanction my relationship.  However, I chose to enter into a formal union with my wife because we felt it was an important step in our lives.  Not to mention the ability to have a kick-ass party, stockpile a bunch of sweet loot, and get drunk while celebrating "us." 

Marriage is personal.  We did it for us.  It has nothing to do with tax breaks, church/government sanctioning, or pedophile Latin.  We felt the need to enter into a formal union.  It was important to us.  What's the point of a tattoo, a professional title or affiliation, or a dog?  They all have very personal meanings.  Marriage provided a method for us to recognize the importance and "official" nature of our relationship.  We look at it as a form of greater commitment.  Plus we now get to call each other "husband" and "wife" instead of "girlfriend" and "asshole."
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Calvin
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2008, 12:39:42 AM »

OP are you new? Because goddamn your attitude sucks.
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rshetts2
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 12:59:18 AM »

Yeow  this is a hot button topic!   Still considering the failure rate of marriage these days I figure the origonal question is valid.  Just remember, marriage is a fine institution, if youre looking to be institutionalized  icon_wink
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2008, 01:01:28 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on May 15, 2008, 12:39:42 AM

OP are you new? Because goddamn your attitude sucks.

Now, now.  He asked a loaded question, sure, but the answer to his question was very well put by PeteRock.

Of course, it's also even more succinctly stated in the Wikipedia article so conveniently linked to in the original post:
Quote
Marriage is a personal union between individuals

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Moliere
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2008, 01:03:31 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on May 15, 2008, 12:39:42 AM

OP are you new? Because goddamn your attitude sucks.

"New" is a relative term. I'm sorry that you think my attitude sucks. It is curious how serious everyone is about their marriage. Its like the children/no children thread that everyone gets all emotionally worked up about. Is it not possible to objectively ask "Why did I get married?" or "Should I get married?" without getting emotionally bent out of shape? I think its a reasonable question. What does marriage accomplish that you didn't have before? You can still throw a big party, have a commitment ceremony dedicating the rest of your life to that person, exchange rings (my mom and step father got matching tattoos on the palm of their hands) and do all those other things that people have mentioned without getting a license from the government. Is your relationship that much different after marriage? Having been through it myself, I suppose it did feel more "official" for whatever that was worth.

Quote from: PeteRock on May 15, 2008, 12:39:42 AM

Why does it need a "purpose".  You make it sound like a screwdriver.

By "accomplish" I don't mean "purpose" like some kind of utility of function. I am asking what the trade off is to get married. What do you have after the marriage that you didn't have before. Do you love your spouse more after being married? But I get it, you wanted to formalize the relationship and marriage is the most common way to do that.
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2008, 01:03:44 AM »

Then there's the marital privileges.  She doesn't have to testify against me, if I can convince her not to.  And she can't testify about what I told her in confidence.
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2008, 01:04:48 AM »

Why marriage?

Because it's awesome. That's why.
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rickfc
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Why so serious?


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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2008, 01:11:13 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 15, 2008, 01:03:31 AM

Quote from: Calvin on May 15, 2008, 12:39:42 AM

OP are you new? Because goddamn your attitude sucks.

"New" is a relative term. I'm sorry that you think my attitude sucks. It is curious how serious everyone is about their marriage. Its like the children/no children thread that everyone gets all emotionally worked up about. Is it not possible to objectively ask "Why did I get married?" or "Should I get married?" without getting emotionally bent out of shape? I think its a reasonable question. What does marriage accomplish that you didn't have before? You can still throw a big party, have a commitment ceremony dedicating the rest of your life to that person, exchange rings (my mom and step father got matching tattoos on the palm of their hands) and do all those other things that people have mentioned without getting a license from the government. Is your relationship that much different after marriage? Having been through it myself, I suppose it did feel more "official" for whatever that was worth.


Not to put words in Calvin's mouth, but I think his post has a little to do with this:

Quote from: rickfc on May 14, 2008, 10:16:21 PM


your OP comes across pretty abrasive, IMHO.


I know, I quoted myself.  Sue me.
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Lee
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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2008, 01:11:55 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on May 15, 2008, 12:39:42 AM

OP are you new? Because goddamn your attitude sucks.

So what is your excuse? slywink
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2008, 01:59:14 AM »

Two reasons: First, we were sure that we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. We wanted to say that formally in front of everyone we knew, and throw an epic party.

Second, we wanted the tax and legal benefits. 

We agreed that ours was a trial marriage. On every anniversary, we would decide whether to re-up for another year. We'll be doing that for the 25th time in August. Right now I'm leaning toward keeping her again.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2008, 03:09:59 AM »

That piece of crap Doug Stanhope is right: marriage should have absolutely nothing to do with the government. I'm against then sanctioning love in any respect. It's a religious institution that started from some backwards traditions, and we need to move on as a world from state-sanctioned marriage. It'll mean a lot of laws have to change, but that's fine.

The idea of monogamy and commitment, though, that's fine.
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« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2008, 03:20:36 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on May 15, 2008, 01:03:44 AM

Then there's the marital privileges.  She doesn't have to testify against me, if I can convince her not to.  And she can't testify about what I told her in confidence.

I always forget that benefit.  I am totally going to leverage that.
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« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2008, 03:58:06 AM »

Dontcha wanna get married so you can be in the in-laws will?  icon_biggrin
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Moliere
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« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2008, 06:02:56 AM »

Quote from: PaulBot on May 15, 2008, 03:58:06 AM

Dontcha wanna get married so you can be in the in-laws will?  icon_biggrin

If that were the case then I chose poorly.
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« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2008, 09:12:03 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 14, 2008, 09:39:08 PM

the local pedophile hasn't read some Latin in front of you and all your family/friends?

Although I take issue with the characterization, if I understand your meaning, then yes, this is an important part for those of us who think there is more happening there than just words. 


Quote
Did you do it for the tax breaks?

And what are the tax breaks people keep referring to?  I could swear we don't make out any better than if we were single and filing separately.  And didn't there use to be a marriage penalty??  Maybe you are referring to some other country than the US?  Or maybe you meant the other automagical benefits one receives when the other kicks the bucket?
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« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2008, 01:08:50 PM »

The standard answer to the original question seems to be something along the lines of "the point is that we wanted to do it to formalize our commitment to each other."

Perfectly fine answer.  However, it raises another question in my mind.

Would your wives have been ok with it if you didn't want to get married? If marriage was simply a formalized showing of commitment then it stands to reason that she would be ok with not going through with that in order to keep the realationship.

But I've seen quite a few cases where not wanting to get married is grounds for breaking the realtionship off in the woman's eyes, even if everything else is 100% perfect.   And that I don't understand.

Hey, I'm all for marriage.   But I would be perfectly happy in a great relationship even if we never formally got married.   It seems like most women wouldn't be... I've always wondered why.
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« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2008, 01:14:46 PM »

Quote from: NetGuy on May 15, 2008, 01:08:50 PM

Hey, I'm all for marriage.   But I would be perfectly happy in a great relationship even if we never formally got married.   It seems like most women wouldn't be... I've always wondered why.

Most women have been dreaming about their big day since they were children.  Then they've had 10-30 years of friends, family, and strangers pressuring them about why they haven't gotten married yet.  On top of that they've got an intense biological desire to bear children, which since birth they've been taught they're only allowed to do while married.
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« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2008, 01:23:03 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 14, 2008, 09:39:08 PM

Seriously, did you really need the Church or Government to sanction your relationship?

Civil unions and marriages are technically exactly all about churches of governments sanctioning your relationships.  When it comes to legal civil unions it sets up implied medical care rights, insurances, social security stuffs, pensions, child care rights, tax sheltering, separation rights, property rights, citizenship etc...  The timing of my marriage was explicitly built around the ex's insurance needs so she could get into grad school.  Even if the marriage itself was because we were in love and believed it would last forever.

And none of this gets into that whole declaration of love and community thing.


For me, I don't see ever doing it again but I'm not a big fan of the concept of never.  It tends to make me eat crow, so I only use it in extreme circumstances.



Quote from: chaosraven on May 14, 2008, 10:16:07 PM

Didn't want the kids to be "bastards"



How's that workin' out for ya'?  (I keed.  I keed.  Jesus fuck, man.  Have a sense of humor already, prick.)

Quote from: PeteRock on May 14, 2008, 11:03:25 PM

Why does it need a "purpose".


If it didn't fulfil a purpose why would go through so much effort to do it?

Quote from: th'FOOL on May 15, 2008, 01:01:28 AM

Quote from: Calvin on May 15, 2008, 12:39:42 AM

OP are you new? Because goddamn your attitude sucks.

Now, now.  He asked a loaded question, sure, but the answer to his question was very well put by PeteRock.

Of course, it's also even more succinctly stated in the Wikipedia article so conveniently linked to in the original post:
Quote
Marriage is a personal union between individuals



Actually marriage is technically a Christian ceremony and a wedding is technically a pagan ceremony.  We just bastardized the terms throughout the years much like chaosraven's children.

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YellowKing
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« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2008, 02:08:38 PM »

I agree that marriage, by and large, is motivated by tradition. But so are funerals. Just because a funeral is filled with ceremony and tradition doesn't mean when somebody I love dies, I want them rolled into a ditch somewhere and forgotten. These traditions exist in society because they fulfill a purpose - you don't necessarily have to agree with that purpose, but sorry, you're outnumbered. You can either accept it for what it is and play along, or you can get all bent out of shape about it and come off looking like a colossal dick.

Marriage is a legal way to show commitment. In that respect, it is stronger than living together, or just saying you're committed. It's binding, with legal ramifications. It's showing that you yourself not only recognize that commitment, but that the government does as well. It's the difference between gambling on the stock market with Monopoly money or real money. The former looks the same on the outside, but doesn't share the risk.

No, marriage won't stop you from cheating on your spouse. But the difference is, it puts legal ramifications in place for doing so (or at least, for getting caught). Getting married says to your spouse, "I'm so committed to you, I'm willing to accept risk should I fail in this committment."



 
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