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Author Topic: [TV] Game of Thrones - Season 4 is coming (please mark spoilers)  (Read 56604 times)
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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #920 on: June 15, 2015, 12:03:52 PM »

Quote from: Lee on June 15, 2015, 06:43:08 AM

Quote from: leo8877 on June 15, 2015, 06:24:24 AM

So.......


Spoiler for Hiden:
according to the show runners, Jon Snow is really dead. Kit Harrington says he's not coming back next season. The perfect fuckery ending to a terrible season.

I liked the season, very entertaining. What didn't you like? Can't wait for next season since it is set up for a lot of stuff to happen. I do wish the good guys would stop dying, but then again, I love a story which isn't all roses and where good doesn't always triumph.

I read the book spoilers, so tonight's ending was no surprise. Thought they made it pretty obvious he was dead, not sure why anyone would think he wasn't.

The book is full of foreshadowing of two ways for him to come back.   The opening chapter of the book is specifically about a wildling warg body jacking on death, as well as all the stuff with Stoneheart etc.  Also, in the books Jon has a bunch of dreams that seem to match old prophesies and he is an active important participant in his dreams.  So in the books there's reasons to question that are essentially absent from the show, note I called this out  up thread.

I also really didn't like this season much at all.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 12:20:00 PM by forgeforsaken » Logged
Exodor
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« Reply #921 on: June 15, 2015, 01:32:40 PM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on June 15, 2015, 12:03:52 PM

The book is full of foreshadowing of two ways for him to come back.   The opening chapter of the book is specifically about a wildling warg body jacking on death, as well as all the stuff with Stoneheart etc.  Also, in the books Jon has a bunch of dreams that seem to match old prophesies and he is an active important participant in his dreams.  So in the books there's reasons to question that are essentially absent from the show, note I called this out  up thread.

If only someone with the power to return the dead to life had just traveled to the wall...
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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #922 on: June 15, 2015, 01:46:39 PM »

Quote from: Exodor on June 15, 2015, 01:32:40 PM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on June 15, 2015, 12:03:52 PM

The book is full of foreshadowing of two ways for him to come back.   The opening chapter of the book is specifically about a wildling warg body jacking on death, as well as all the stuff with Stoneheart etc.  Also, in the books Jon has a bunch of dreams that seem to match old prophesies and he is an active important participant in his dreams.  So in the books there's reasons to question that are essentially absent from the show, note I called this out  up thread.

If only someone with the power to return the dead to life had just traveled to the wall...


Sure that's a way for them to do it, but that's not foreshadowing.  I mean do show exclusive watchers even really remember Thoros doing that, what 2 seasons ago?  We've never seen Melisandre do it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 01:55:54 PM by forgeforsaken » Logged
Lee
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« Reply #923 on: June 15, 2015, 02:48:03 PM »

Quote from: Exodor on June 15, 2015, 01:32:40 PM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on June 15, 2015, 12:03:52 PM

The book is full of foreshadowing of two ways for him to come back.   The opening chapter of the book is specifically about a wildling warg body jacking on death, as well as all the stuff with Stoneheart etc.  Also, in the books Jon has a bunch of dreams that seem to match old prophesies and he is an active important participant in his dreams.  So in the books there's reasons to question that are essentially absent from the show, note I called this out  up thread.

If only someone with the power to return the dead to life had just traveled to the wall...


Ha, yeah I kind of forgot it is set in a fantasy world. Melisandre hasn't done much magic in the show, and outside of the baby thing when she was introduced, I started to think she was a fraud. I noticed when she arrived at the wall she was all wrapped up as well, as if she lost her god. I guess anything is possible.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #924 on: June 15, 2015, 08:50:41 PM »

This season was good, to me, the ending is shocking and he was one of my favorite characters, but of course I knew it was coming.  To say this season wasn't good is a stretch, to me at least.
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rittchard
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« Reply #925 on: June 15, 2015, 08:56:56 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on June 15, 2015, 06:24:24 AM

So.......


Spoiler for Hiden:
according to the show runners, Jon Snow is really dead. Kit Harrington says he's not coming back next season. The perfect fuckery ending to a terrible season.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I think they are purposely saying "Jon Snow" is dead, but that still leaves room for Jon Stark to return, or maybe some super resurrected champion that has been mentioned before with a different name.  And although Kit was originally quoted as saying he was told it was over, there have also been reports he's already back filming.  So they may just be having trouble covering things up.  

I honestly never thought Jon Snow was dead or done when I read the book.  I read that part over a bunch of times and for whatever reason I never felt like it was the end for him.  Maybe it was just wishful thinking, but as others have noted there are plenty of theories on how he could come back.  Of course the simplest is just that he didn't 100% die, it's not like other characters on TV haven't been stabbed more than 4 times and survive lol.  But given that they keep saying "Jon Snow is dead" it's probably more likely that they have a more special come back prepared for him.  I read one article saying that that could be a reason for omitting ZomCatelyn out, since a similar ZomJon return would then have less impact.  Either way there's been enough resurrection talk in the series that I highly doubt we've seen the last of Kit Harrington.
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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #926 on: June 15, 2015, 09:06:44 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on June 15, 2015, 08:50:41 PM

This season was good, to me, the ending is shocking and he was one of my favorite characters, but of course I knew it was coming.  To say this season wasn't good is a stretch, to me at least.

The season had a lot of problems.  Heavy handed at times, fight choreography the wost it's been, some pretty dumb and kind of gross changes from the books i.e. Sansa/Ramsay or Stannis/Shireen, some really bad writing (all that Dorne stuff, ugh).   There were a few bright spots, the battle with the white walkers, and accelerating/condensing of Tyrion's plot was actually smart for the show, but I feel all the bad stuff this season outweighed the good.


Dorne
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Lee
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« Reply #927 on: June 15, 2015, 09:47:59 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 15, 2015, 08:56:56 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
 Of course the simplest is just that he didn't 100% die, it's not like other characters on TV haven't been stabbed more than 4 times and survive lol.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I don't know, laying face up, with your eyes wide open, in a pool of blood looks very dead to me.
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rittchard
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« Reply #928 on: June 15, 2015, 11:46:24 PM »

Quote from: Lee on June 15, 2015, 09:47:59 PM

Quote from: rittchard on June 15, 2015, 08:56:56 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
 Of course the simplest is just that he didn't 100% die, it's not like other characters on TV haven't been stabbed more than 4 times and survive lol.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I don't know, laying face up, with your eyes wide open, in a pool of blood looks very dead to me.

Check out Hannibal lol.  Or The Following.  Or even Arrow. 
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leo8877
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« Reply #929 on: June 16, 2015, 01:56:04 AM »

Jon Snow and Stannis


Spoiler for Hiden:
What was the point of all the "real lineage" of jon snow stuff if he just bites it?  Also, what's with the Stannis death scene?  Why the cut away.  Is he or isn't he?  I thought he was dead and they showed what they needed to.  What about you guys?
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Turtle
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« Reply #930 on: June 16, 2015, 05:03:07 AM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
I think he's really dead. However, even being really, really dead doesn't mean too much in this setting. They establish that early with Beric Dondarrian. Beric was nearly cleaved in half, and still came back almost instantly with a little murmuring from a former red priest.

Him being dead is important because being dead means he (probably) is free of his oath to the Night's Watch, which then frees him to pursue other matters, like bringing his family back together. Most likely, with the watch in tatters due to treason, he'll have to go South and rally whomever he can to both retake Winterfell, but also prepare for the white walkers when they get past the wall.

I will actually be very surprised that he stays dead because even Martin has said he's loathe to kill any more main characters.
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TiLT
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« Reply #931 on: June 16, 2015, 05:16:15 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on June 16, 2015, 05:03:07 AM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I will actually be very surprised that he stays dead because even Martin has said he's loathe to kill any more main characters.

Spoiler for Hiden:
You've been dreaming. Tongue

GRRM has specifically said that he's about to trim the roster of POV characters to prepare for the end of the story. He's warned us that we should expect to see some of our favorite characters die soon.
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leo8877
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« Reply #932 on: June 16, 2015, 05:30:44 AM »

I was asking about Stannis not Jon
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Zinfan
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« Reply #933 on: June 16, 2015, 06:10:11 AM »

Well whichever way the spoiler stuff goes I just hope we continue to get some decent series moving forwards.  5 seasons in and thre doesn't seem to be any indication that the forces of good are moving towards each other, how many seasons do we have left, have they ever said?  I have enjoyed each season so far.
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Zinfan
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« Reply #934 on: June 16, 2015, 06:13:25 AM »

Quote from: leo8877 on June 16, 2015, 01:56:04 AM

Jon Snow and Stannis


Spoiler for Hiden:
What was the point of all the "real lineage" of jon snow stuff if he just bites it?  Also, what's with the Stannis death scene?  Why the cut away.  Is he or isn't he?  I thought he was dead and they showed what they needed to.  What about you guys?

Spoiler for Hiden:
if nothing else we may get hot Kingslayer on Kingslayer action if Jamie and Brieanna get together.  Stannis is dead, at least that is my opinion.  Jon? No clue.
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leo8877
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« Reply #935 on: June 16, 2015, 02:16:36 PM »

Quote from: Zinfan on June 16, 2015, 06:10:11 AM

Well whichever way the spoiler stuff goes I just hope we continue to get some decent series moving forwards.  5 seasons in and thre doesn't seem to be any indication that the forces of good are moving towards each other, how many seasons do we have left, have they ever said?  I have enjoyed each season so far.

I'm pretty sure they said 7 seasons
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leo8877
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« Reply #936 on: June 16, 2015, 02:18:46 PM »

Quote from: Zinfan on June 16, 2015, 06:13:25 AM

Quote from: leo8877 on June 16, 2015, 01:56:04 AM

Jon Snow and Stannis


Spoiler for Hiden:
What was the point of all the "real lineage" of jon snow stuff if he just bites it?  Also, what's with the Stannis death scene?  Why the cut away.  Is he or isn't he?  I thought he was dead and they showed what they needed to.  What about you guys?

Spoiler for Hiden:
if nothing else we may get hot Kingslayer on Kingslayer action if Jamie and Brieanna get together.  Stannis is dead, at least that is my opinion.  Jon? No clue.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I felt like Stannis was dead too, but then I read quotes from showrunners about how you have to leave no doubts (they were talking about Jon Snow/Ned etc) and I think why cut away.  Was that the artistic way to film that scene or is there something more sinister at play?
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Punisher
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« Reply #937 on: June 16, 2015, 03:48:17 PM »

I believe I read somewhere that Miracle Max shows up in Season 6 Episode 1.
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rittchard
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« Reply #938 on: June 16, 2015, 04:56:46 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on June 16, 2015, 02:18:46 PM

Quote from: Zinfan on June 16, 2015, 06:13:25 AM

Quote from: leo8877 on June 16, 2015, 01:56:04 AM

Jon Snow and Stannis


Spoiler for Hiden:
What was the point of all the "real lineage" of jon snow stuff if he just bites it?  Also, what's with the Stannis death scene?  Why the cut away.  Is he or isn't he?  I thought he was dead and they showed what they needed to.  What about you guys?

Spoiler for Hiden:
if nothing else we may get hot Kingslayer on Kingslayer action if Jamie and Brieanna get together.  Stannis is dead, at least that is my opinion.  Jon? No clue.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I felt like Stannis was dead too, but then I read quotes from showrunners about how you have to leave no doubts (they were talking about Jon Snow/Ned etc) and I think why cut away.  Was that the artistic way to film that scene or is there something more sinister at play?

Spoiler for Hiden:
For conventional TV, if they didn't show it 100% explicitly, then likely he's not dead.  I always say if you want to be sure you should chop the head off and then burn the body to ashes.  If it's a modern show, make sure you get DNA evidence too! 

As for "sinister," Brienne could have just chopped the tree down for all we know, hehe.  Maybe she wanted to bring him to justice in front of more people, or trade him for Sansa.  For this show, it's really hard to say since they don't follow normal TV rules.  Was it more artistic?  I didn't feel like it.  Was it supposed to be a cliffhanger for the finale?  Maybe.  If I had to bet I'd go with him still being alive. 
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TiLT
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« Reply #939 on: June 16, 2015, 05:35:27 PM »

Why use spoilers in this thread right now, unless we're talking about things that are specifically from the books or non-speculative information from next season?

Stannis is definitely dead. The episode's director has confirmed it. They cut away from his decapitation because they didn't want it to be gratuitous.

Other fates he has confirmed: (may be considered spoilers if you'd rather not know)

Spoiler for Hiden:
Myrcella: Dead
Theon: Alive
Sansa: Alive
Jon Snow: Dead (though that's not saying much in this particular case)
Meryn Trant: Dead (OMG!)
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leo8877
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« Reply #940 on: June 16, 2015, 06:30:08 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 16, 2015, 05:35:27 PM

Why use spoilers in this thread right now, unless we're talking about things that are specifically from the books or non-speculative information from next season?

Stannis is definitely dead. The episode's director has confirmed it. They cut away from his decapitation because they didn't want it to be gratuitous.

Other fates he has confirmed: (may be considered spoilers if you'd rather not know)

Spoiler for Hiden:
Myrcella: Dead
Theon: Alive
Sansa: Alive
Jon Snow: Dead (though that's not saying much in this particular case)
Meryn Trant: Dead (OMG!)

What was the point of all the R+L=J stuff and the hints dropped this season that Jon wasn't Ned's bastard after all?
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TiLT
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« Reply #941 on: June 16, 2015, 06:54:23 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on June 16, 2015, 06:30:08 PM

What was the point of all the R+L=J stuff and the hints dropped this season that Jon wasn't Ned's bastard after all?

The fact that Jon is dead doesn't mean he'll remain dead. Everything points to him getting some kind of resurrection or reincarnation.
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