Lost: The Final Season (spoilers not tagged)

[MahaROGa]

"There is no Sayid!"
"I wish you wouldn't have believed me." (ncl-Locke to ncl-Jack)
I'm pretty sure the "dentist" that Jack went to see knows what's up with NCL (no crash land).
Even as stupid as ncl-Jack is I think he's finally getting a clue that something's not quite right in NCL.
Poor Jin and Sun. That wasn't very nice of the writers.

The whole plane/attack the sub stuff didn't feel right. Uber-paranoid Widmore had only two guards at the plane? The sub was unguarded? Didn't make any sense to me. Maybe smokey did more damage than was shown when he freed the prisoners? Piss poor writing? 

I'm still holding out hope that smokey is not the bad guy simply because the idea of Widmore being the good guy is repugnant. 

There are no good guys.

Yeah...  I see Widmore as a third party to this whole conflict, not with Smokey or Jacob.  I think he wants everything to stay as it is (don't let Smokey leave) so that the island continues to exist and he can setup Dharma-esque projects for financial (or whatever) personal gains.

[LoneStarSpur]

"There is no Sayid!"
"I wish you wouldn't have believed me." (ncl-Locke to ncl-Jack)
I'm pretty sure the "dentist" that Jack went to see knows what's up with NCL (no crash land).
Even as stupid as ncl-Jack is I think he's finally getting a clue that something's not quite right in NCL.
Poor Jin and Sun. That wasn't very nice of the writers.

The whole plane/attack the sub stuff didn't feel right. Uber-paranoid Widmore had only two guards at the plane? The sub was unguarded? Didn't make any sense to me. Maybe smokey did more damage than was shown when he freed the prisoners? Piss poor writing? 

I'm still holding out hope that smokey is not the bad guy simply because the idea of Widmore being the good guy is repugnant. 

There are no good guys.

Yeah...  I see Widmore as a third party to this whole conflict, not with Smokey or Jacob.  I think he wants everything to stay as it is (don't let Smokey leave) so that the island continues to exist and he can setup Dharma-esque projects for financial (or whatever) personal gains.

No good guys? What's the black/white rock stuff then? Someone thinks he's a good guy.  But I agree...none of them are guys in White Hats.

Except that Widmore seems more worried about them 'ceasing to exist' than anything else if smokey gets free.

Of course, I am incredibly confused so all my speculation is pretty much worthless. I can't even understand just where this current Island timeline stems from.

Maybe  next week we'll get some answers, but I'm not betting on it.

4 more hours

Oh, and Sawyer is taking Jacob's place. If it ends with MIB and Sawyer sitting on a beach with MIB telling Sawyer how much he wants to kill him I'm going to throw something at my TV. 

[CeeKay]

4 more hours

4 and a half hours.  don't cut it short!

[rittchard]

It is hard for me to feel too sad about Jin and Sun knowing that they are still alive in the other timeline.  I don't think the Island timeline will end up being the base timeline, or real timeline.  

Next week's episode is titled "Across the Sea" but the one following is, more ominously, "What They Died For" - which does seem to give the implication the alternate timeline will be "saved" or preserved or folded/merged into.

You should be careful with mentioning the names of upcoming episodes. You'd get banned from Lostpedia for this post, because it's considered a spoiler.

luckily our thread has "spoilers not tagged" in the title!

[Scraper]

"There is no Sayid!"
"I wish you wouldn't have believed me." (ncl-Locke to ncl-Jack)
I'm pretty sure the "dentist" that Jack went to see knows what's up with NCL (no crash land).
Even as stupid as ncl-Jack is I think he's finally getting a clue that something's not quite right in NCL.
Poor Jin and Sun. That wasn't very nice of the writers.

The whole plane/attack the sub stuff didn't feel right. Uber-paranoid Widmore had only two guards at the plane? The sub was unguarded? Didn't make any sense to me. Maybe smokey did more damage than was shown when he freed the prisoners? Piss poor writing?  

I'm still holding out hope that smokey is not the bad guy simply because the idea of Widmore being the good guy is repugnant.  

As for Widmore, after this weeks episode I'm starting to think Widmore is actually in league with Smokey. Why in the heck would he attack smokey and not have the stupid fencing ready. He knows Smokey is going to retaliate, but he attacks without having his defenses ready? It doesn't make sense and it was out of character. Plus he didn't show his face at all once smokey was on the attack. The whole thing seemed weird to me.

[CeeKay]

It is hard for me to feel too sad about Jin and Sun knowing that they are still alive in the other timeline.  I don't think the Island timeline will end up being the base timeline, or real timeline.  

Next week's episode is titled "Across the Sea" but the one following is, more ominously, "What They Died For" - which does seem to give the implication the alternate timeline will be "saved" or preserved or folded/merged into.

You should be careful with mentioning the names of upcoming episodes. You'd get banned from Lostpedia for this post, because it's considered a spoiler.

luckily our thread has "spoilers not tagged" in the title!

would it be evil if I changed it to 'no spoilers' for the unsuspecting?

[TiLT]

It is hard for me to feel too sad about Jin and Sun knowing that they are still alive in the other timeline.  I don't think the Island timeline will end up being the base timeline, or real timeline.  

Next week's episode is titled "Across the Sea" but the one following is, more ominously, "What They Died For" - which does seem to give the implication the alternate timeline will be "saved" or preserved or folded/merged into.

You should be careful with mentioning the names of upcoming episodes. You'd get banned from Lostpedia for this post, because it's considered a spoiler.

luckily our thread has "spoilers not tagged" in the title!

That's for spoilers about episodes that have aired. I'm sure you wouldn't have been very happy if I came across spoilers for the final episode and shared them openly in here.

Not that it matters much at this point. Thanks to this week's episode, these episode titles are no longer as spoilerific as they used to be. And for the record, I was already familiar with them.

[rittchard]

"There is no Sayid!"
"I wish you wouldn't have believed me." (ncl-Locke to ncl-Jack)
I'm pretty sure the "dentist" that Jack went to see knows what's up with NCL (no crash land).
Even as stupid as ncl-Jack is I think he's finally getting a clue that something's not quite right in NCL.
Poor Jin and Sun. That wasn't very nice of the writers.

The whole plane/attack the sub stuff didn't feel right. Uber-paranoid Widmore had only two guards at the plane? The sub was unguarded? Didn't make any sense to me. Maybe smokey did more damage than was shown when he freed the prisoners? Piss poor writing?  

I'm still holding out hope that smokey is not the bad guy simply because the idea of Widmore being the good guy is repugnant.  

As for Widmore, after this weeks episode I'm starting to think Widmore is actually in league with Smokey. Why in the heck would he attack smokey and not have the stupid fencing ready. He knows Smokey is going to retaliate, but he attacks without having his defenses ready? It doesn't make sense and it was out of character. Plus he didn't show his face at all once smokey was on the attack. The whole thing seemed weird to me.

I think Widmore has his own agenda, though I can't figure it out.  We know his present plan involves Desmond and some sort of time/reality travel(?) using a special EM patch.  It seems to me like he would want to preserve the alternate reality, one in which his son was not shot in cold blood by his own mother.  So perhaps he needs to send Desmond's consciousness back to a point where Desmond can have an effect on making the present "reality" cease to exist?  An obvious turning point would be where Desmond chooses not to push the buttons and brings down Oceanic 815.  That would seem to negate Juliet's sacrifice, but I think you might argue her blowing up of the nuke set off a new branch, a completely different set of circumstances leading to what's happening in the alternate reality (where presumably the island has sunk).  Whereas Desmond's alteration in the present timeline would specifically only keep 815 from falling out of the sky with the island left intact.  The problem with this is that in the first case, it seems like the implication is that the cork is off and Smokey is free where in the latter, the island stays and Smokey is kept in check.  So you have a "good" reality where Smokey is out and about but all our heroes are doing more or less OK.  Or a "bad" reality where all our heroes (except maybe one) are dead but Smokey is still held at the island.  Maybe it's some hidden message that "evil"/dark/bad comes in different shapes and sizes, and you have to be able to recognize the distinction between surface good and real good.

I realize that doesn't make much sense but my brain hurts now from thinking about it lol.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

The whole plane/attack the sub stuff didn't feel right. Uber-paranoid Widmore had only two guards at the plane? The sub was unguarded? Didn't make any sense to me.

The plane was left unguarded so that Locke et al would be blown up (as was explained during the show). The sub was not left unguarded; did you miss all the people in the trees shooting at Locke? They were waiting until people were on the dock to start shooting (i.e. an ambush).

[rittchard]

The whole plane/attack the sub stuff didn't feel right. Uber-paranoid Widmore had only two guards at the plane? The sub was unguarded? Didn't make any sense to me.

The plane was left unguarded so that Locke et al would be blown up (as was explained during the show). The sub was not left unguarded; did you miss all the people in the trees shooting at Locke? They were waiting until people were on the dock to start shooting (i.e. an ambush).

Besides at this point they have limited personnel.  A lot of the people they brought have already died, even Dough Boy went down.  All that's left may be Tina Fey, and she is their chief scientist as well!

[Maggot]

Some idiot spoiled me about this episode in a totally unrelated youtube videos comment section so I really didn't enjoy it as much as I probably would. All the 4 dying was still sad though. I'm pretty confident that Vincent will replace Jacob now in a silent hill 2 dog kind of ending. 

[LoneStarSpur]

The whole plane/attack the sub stuff didn't feel right. Uber-paranoid Widmore had only two guards at the plane? The sub was unguarded? Didn't make any sense to me.

The plane was left unguarded so that Locke et al would be blown up (as was explained during the show). The sub was not left unguarded; did you miss all the people in the trees shooting at Locke? They were waiting until people were on the dock to start shooting (i.e. an ambush).

I know I'm over-thinking this. 

Surely Widmore knows something as trivial as a bomb (well, maybe a nuke is smokey is dead in NCL LOL) isn't going to harm smokey. And it sure looked to me like smokey knew that C4 was on the plane (getting that dead guys watch). And it sure looked like smokey was genuinely pissed about getting on the sub (would have manipulated them into killing themselves, but they did it for him).

I just didn't like that the sub was unguarded but 30 seconds after Sawyer's group boarded it the calvary arrived when they had plenty of time to be there to actually try and keep people off the thing. Maybe it was just the best way the writers could come up with to keep smokey off the sub. Who knows. I'm over-thinking it.

And I just don't get the island timeline.

Bomb goes off we get NCL.

Bomb doesn't go off and we get a continuation with Juliette, but we didn't. We instead got her later that day with no Dharma people around and no exploded bomb.

Oh, forget it. My head hurts. I'm just watch the last 4 (and 1/2) hours and hope it all somehow makes sense in the end. 

[JayDee]

It is hard for me to feel too sad about Jin and Sun knowing that they are still alive in the other timeline.  I don't think the Island timeline will end up being the base timeline, or real timeline.  

Next week's episode is titled "Across the Sea" but the one following is, more ominously, "What They Died For" - which does seem to give the implication the alternate timeline will be "saved" or preserved or folded/merged into.

is the finale going to be called '..and Found'?

Even more basic than that. It's called "The End".

[morlac]

The Sun/Jin ending was nice and all but no mention of their child?  If that was me and my wife I would be telling her to get the F out and go raise our child.  My wife would do the same.   


On the timeline merge thingie...

I think the birth of Arron will have something to do with it.  No idea how or why but just a feeling.

[LoneStarSpur]

“There is no ambiguity,” says Cuse. “He (smokey) is evil and he has to be stopped.”

I think I'm still rooting for him. 

[metallicorphan]

late to the party again,good episode

i wonder if this will be a (shaky)truce between Sawyer and Jack...jack getting it wrong leading to Juliette's death,and Sawyer getting it wrong leading to half the sodding casts death


so,who's left?
Jack
Sawyer
Kate
Hurley

and actually i am not crossing out Jin yet,they said they didn't know which of the Kwon candidates it was between Sun and Jin,and i know this TV show it throws up some weird shit...and Suns hand looked more like dying in the water than Jins did


anyone else after Kate got shot and Jack started to inspect her start shouting at the TV 'TAKE HER TOP OFF!!!' ?

[Kyosho]

No, but I did say, "Hah!" Because earlier in the show I'd been thinking, "They keep saying she's not a candidate! Oh, I hope she dies and everyone else lives!" My reaction when she was shot made me think I was correct in that line of thinking. But, not so. Damn you, Lost.

[rittchard]

The Sun/Jin ending was nice and all but no mention of their child?  If that was me and my wife I would be telling her to get the F out and go raise our child.  My wife would do the same.   

We were discussing this at work.  While everyone agreed it should have been mentioned, we differed on how we felt about the ultimate result.  My feeling was they went for the "tragic romantic" ending, i.e. with that last look of fear in Sun's eyes, Jin just couldn't bear to leave her to die/drown alone, even knowing what he "should" do.  Now of course the fact is Sun already made the decision to leave her daughter with her mom/parents when she decided to search for Jin, and Jin never even met his daughter, so there may be some cultural differences to consider as well.  Asian cultures can be remarkably cold (or what Americans would consider cold) when it comes to practicality of children.  Just a thought.  One of my colleagues offered the theory that upon dying or near death they are able to see or have a conscious merge with the alt-reality, and so they were willing to "die" in this one.

[Kevin Grey]

No mention of the child *was* bizarre.  I kind of feel like Ji-On wasn't necessary at all.  Maybe I'm missing something but I don't feel like their daughter ever contributed anything to the plot and the character arc of Jin and Sun finding each other only to die shortly thereafter would have played better if there was no child elsewhere. 

[CeeKay]

anyone else after Kate got shot and Jack started to inspect her start shouting at the TV 'TAKE HER TOP OFF!!!' ?

Spoiler for Hiden:

[EddieA]

No mention of the child *was* bizarre.  I kind of feel like Ji-On wasn't necessary at all.  Maybe I'm missing something but I don't feel like their daughter ever contributed anything to the plot and the character arc of Jin and Sun finding each other only to die shortly thereafter would have played better if there was no child elsewhere. 

The child didn't play much of a part, but Sun's pregnancy played a large role in the characters' stories.  The revelation of Sun's affair and Jin's paternity of the baby led to their forgiving each other and reconnecting.  The pregnancy was also the impetus for Sun to leave the island, leading to their separation.

[CeeKay]

wow.. hard to believe that, in two weeks time, it will all be over.

[LoneStarSpur]

Here's a question I read somewhere else:

How does Widmore know who the Candidates are?

[TiLT]

Here's a question I read somewhere else:

How does Widmore know who the Candidates are?

Jacob may have told him back when Widmore was the leader of the Others. Ben didn't really know much, but then again, Jacob may have wanted to keep him at arm's length.

[CeeKay]

well tonight we had Lost the Wonder Years   it's interesting to finally know who the skeletons in the cave belong to; I was leaning towards them belonging to Bernard and Rose but was wrong.

[Maggot]

Terrible episode which could have been amazing. The whole MiB dont have name focus was stupid and the episode just gave us a lot more questions than answers which is not what I want with 2 episodes left. Only thing still really awesome about this show is Desmond, they better not fuck him up in the last 3 ½ hours.

Also the adam and eve thing was just stupid, how long have the been there?

[Bullwinkle]

I liked it.

You're not going to have all answers in the next three hours, you know.  It's not like you'll get to the end of that finale and go, "Well, now it all makes sense."  Especially when you're dealing with the metaphysical and science that has barely been touched by scientists yet.  They've got to keep shit like the Source vague.

And how long did you think Adam and Even were in there?  I always assumed it was from the early days of the island.

[denoginizer]

I didn't care for the episode.  I was hoping there would be more to Jacob and man in black than woman of unknown origin protecting unknown source of power kills shipwrecked pregnant mother and takes her two baby boys.  The episode raised more questions than it answered.

I had assumed that every time a dead person appeared on the Island, (unless they were talking to Hurley,) it was the smoke monster taking their form.  But when young boy in black saw his mother that whole theory went out the window.  I guess Allison Janney telling him he is "special" covers all of that?  

I am hoping that the finale shows us more about the relationship between Jacob and the smoke monster and how Jacob set up his rules about choosing the candidates.  Why has Jacob seemingly been able to leave the island and boy in black could not? Why would it be so bad if man in black/smokey gets off the island?  Would it really be bad or does Jacob think it would be bad only because his crazy mother told him so? 

I know the writers won't be able to answer all of the questions. But there sure are alot of loose ends to tie up in just 3 1/2 hours. I will say that this episode has me rooting for smokey.  Jacob comes out of it looking like a sheltered momma's boy doing things only because that's what his crazy mother told him to do.

[Maggot]

I liked it.

You're not going to have all answers in the next three hours, you know.  It's not like you'll get to the end of that finale and go, "Well, now it all makes sense."  Especially when you're dealing with the metaphysical and science that has barely been touched by scientists yet.  They've got to keep shit like the Source vague.

And how long did you think Adam and Even were in there?  I always assumed it was from the early days of the island.

I know I'm not going to get everything explained and fully accept that but them throwing so much more unexplained stuff in there now is just stupid and the child actors... Oh my they completely destroyed so much of that episodes. Richard Alperts episode raped this one. The Adam and Eve thing I always thought had been in there for like 50 years max, surely some animals would have done something to their bodies after such a long time. Then there was their mother, not bad acting but just stupid plot for her and all the conversations she had with Jacob and MiB. How did she kill the whole camp and do all the shit that she did?

Easily in the top 5 worst episodes of lost imo, only some of the kate episodes, Stranger in a Strange land and expose were worse. Really didn't expect a stinker like this so close to the finale.

[Bullwinkle]

I didn't care for the episode.  I was hoping there would be more to Jacob and man in black than woman of unknown origin protecting unknown source of power kills shipwrecked pregnant mother and takes her two baby boys.  The episode raised more questions than it answered.

I had assumed that every time a dead person appeared on the Island, (unless they were talking to Hurley,) it was the smoke monster taking their form.  But when young boy in black saw his mother that whole theory went out the window.  I guess Allison Janney telling him he is "special" covers all of that?  

I am hoping that the finale shows us more about the relationship between Jacob and the smoke monster and how Jacob set up his rules about choosing the candidates.  Why has Jacob seemingly been able to leave the island and boy in black could not? Why would it be so bad if man in black/smokey gets off the island?  Would it really be bad or does Jacob think it would be bad only because his crazy mother told him so? 

I know the writers won't be able to answer all of the questions. But there sure are alot of loose ends to tie up in just 3 1/2 hours. I will say that this episode has me rooting for smokey.  Jacob comes out of it looking like a sheltered momma's boy doing things only because that's what his crazy mother told him to do.

I agree that the episode did no favors for Jacob.  It really weakened him.  That was my big complaint.

I'm not trying to say it's my favorite ep ever, but it doesn't seem worthy of Maggot-level bile to me.  Overall, I enjoyed it, and it gave answers in the traditional Lost manner (ie not comfortably).  I don't expect any of the loose ends left by this episode to be tied up, really (though I'd like to see how much of a liar Allison Janney really was and get just a hair more backstory on her). 

I was curious about the destruction to the camp and the well, and I kind of assumed that she didn't do it all herself.  Perhaps until Smokey was set free, she was able to control him, somehow.  I don't know.  I don't know that we will know.

As for the dead people all being Smokey, why would Hurley be the only person who can communicate with the real dead?  We already have Miles, as well.  The real question is: Why did she pick that moment to come to him?

I feel like there was some line at some point about Adam & Eve having been there for a very long time (or maybe it was just the nicknames that made me think that).  Whatever the reason, I was in no way surprised that it was someone from that long ago.  If it was going to be Bernard and Rose or any current castaway, I figured there would have been some big-time time travel involved.

[Ironrod]

They've got to keep shit like the Source vague.

True, but depicting it as a Golden Sewer didn't work for me. The origin of the smoke monster was weak (but at least they did finally depict it, if not exactly explaining it).

  Why has Jacob seemingly been able to leave the island and boy in black could not?

(Guess) Because the nameless brother's body is dead and he now exists only in magical form? Maybe Smokey can't get too far from the Golden Sewer?

I didn't like the episode very much, if only because it's kind of late to be doing pure flashback episodes in isolation from the two universes they're already juggling. The exposition could've been achieved more efficiently without neglecting the here-and-now(s).

[CeeKay]

I think the destruction of the camp was from the men there themselves, like they turned on each other.  other than that the only 2 questions I came away with are:

a) who was the woman and how did she know what she seemed to know?
b) what is the deal with the source?

out of those 2 I think we'll most likely get the answer to B.

[Bullwinkle]

They've got to keep shit like the Source vague.

True, but depicting it as a Golden Sewer didn't work for me. The origin of the smoke monster was weak (but at least they did finally depict it, if not exactly explaining it).

  Why has Jacob seemingly been able to leave the island and boy in black could not?

(Guess) Because the nameless brother's body is dead and he now exists only in magical form? Maybe Smokey can't get too far from the Golden Sewer?

I didn't like the episode very much, if only because it's kind of late to be doing pure flashback episodes in isolation from the two universes they're already juggling. The exposition could've been achieved more efficiently without neglecting the here-and-now(s).

Yeah, that's probably true, too.  There maybe wasn't quite enough meat for a full episode flashback, though I understand why they did it that way.

[tgb]

At least now we know what was in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase.

[CeeKay]

At least now we know what was in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase.

I always thought that was a Willie Wonka Golden Ticket.....

[Isgrimnur]

And how long did you think Adam and Even were in there?  I always assumed it was from the early days of the island.

The Adam and Eve thing I always thought had been in there for like 50 years max, surely some animals would have done something to their bodies after such a long time.

I'm thinking Iron Age, lots of years in the past, as MiB hanging out with the tribe isn't familiar with the concept of magnetism after spending 30 years with them.

[Bullwinkle]

At least now we know what was in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase.

 

[hepcat]

I was pretty unsatisfied with last night's attempt to explain Smokey and Jacob's history.

Am I to believe that smokey grew up without a name?  Was he "Hey you!" around the island?  

The MacGuffin that is "magical golden sewer" is just annoying, imho.  Unless they explain it in a more in-depth manner at some point before the show ends, I'm going to view it in the same manner as Marcellus Wallace's briefcase (thanks tgb)...but in this case, it's a sign of lazy writing and not a whimsical plot item that isn't meant to be explained.  I expect more from Lost due to my time investment.

I didn't understand why he jumped to the conclusion that digging up magnetic sites would get him access to magic golden sewer.  Although to be fair, I may very well have missed something as I was eating dinner at the same time.

This isn't Twin Peaks.  We were told early in the show's run that all things would be explained.  I had hoped they would be explained satisfactorily and not in the same way Twin Peaks tried (surprising renewal equals scrambling to rewrite show using vague spiritual references that allow non-answers to be used).

[Maggot]

 

[McBa1n]

At least now we know what was in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase.

Haha - that's what went through my head every time they referenced it or showed it.