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Author Topic: Lost: The Final Season (spoilers not tagged)  (Read 21865 times)
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CeeKay
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« Reply #240 on: March 11, 2010, 06:36:54 AM »

I hear the principal at Ben's school has no dick.
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« Reply #241 on: March 11, 2010, 06:46:42 AM »

also, did anyone notice Mario van Peebles directed this episode?
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« Reply #242 on: March 11, 2010, 12:18:21 PM »

I love the fact that Jack has basically pulled a 180 and become the Man of Faith. It feels right for what seems to be a season where we seeing a sort of mirror image of the events of Season 1.

In some respects, that makes sense since Jacob is the representative of faith and destiny and Flocke (MiB) of free will and decisions based on information.
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« Reply #243 on: March 11, 2010, 02:26:24 PM »

Considering Jack's previous leaps of faith have mostly blown up in his face, and the people around him, I was fully expecting the dynamite to literally...blow up in his face.  I liked the nutty look he had as he stared down a hopeless Richard. 
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« Reply #244 on: March 11, 2010, 04:16:49 PM »

Man, I hate to be turning into the Nattering Nabob of Negativity of the thread, but...  icon_biggrin

Seeing Ben turned into a sniveling, whining, begging groveling-for-acceptance shell of his former self was just disgusting.

I know I need figure out how to just go with the flow and let the writers do their thing, but I'm really starting to hate this season.
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« Reply #245 on: March 11, 2010, 04:35:40 PM »

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on March 11, 2010, 04:16:49 PM

Seeing Ben turned into a sniveling, whining, begging groveling-for-acceptance shell of his former self was just disgusting.

I wouldn't put it past him to be faking it.  right now I'm expecting both him and Sayid to do a 180 when it's convenient for them.
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« Reply #246 on: March 11, 2010, 06:16:24 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 11, 2010, 04:35:40 PM

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on March 11, 2010, 04:16:49 PM

Seeing Ben turned into a sniveling, whining, begging groveling-for-acceptance shell of his former self was just disgusting.

I wouldn't put it past him to be faking it.  right now I'm expecting both him and Sayid to do a 180 when it's convenient for them.

Ben is broken, most of the people I've talked to think his core story arc is just about done and really the character is not much more than a tool at this point.  Likely he will end up sacrificing himself to save one of the real "heroes" to gain some redemption.  I was on the fence, I loved his performance in general but the last scene of him just wanting to be included with the "cool kids" was too over the top for me.  Still I'd say this wasn't too much of a surprise, the entire last season broke Ben down, he has pretty much been heading down this path ever since he let Alex die, so this last episode you could say served as some sort of closure for that plotline.  There's still some of the old Ben left in him but Jacob and Smokey and now Jordin Sparks seem like they've pretty much beat it out of him. 

Let's face it, the Ben character was *always* a "groveling for acceptance" type, it's just now that he's out of power it's manifesting differently.  As a child, he tried to win his dad's acceptance to no avail, and then at Dharma betrays them for the Others trying to get Richard and the Others' acceptance.  As leader of the Others, he tries to get Jacob's approval, also to no avail.  He falls for Juliet and tries to get her to love him, even killing off (literally) his competition, but always to no avail.  Just because he could be tough and ruthless, cool and calculating, and lied like no other, it doesn't mean he wasn't always the ultimate pathetic character wanting to be accepted. 
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« Reply #247 on: March 11, 2010, 06:47:36 PM »

You make some good points, rittchard.

Hell, I should be happy that he finally got what was coming to him, but there was just something unseemly about it, something almost cruel. He's now little more than a pet.

Unless he's faking it.  icon_biggrin

Of course (tbh) I really haven't liked what they've done with any of the characters so far.

Oh, well...not my story to tell. Maybe this upcoming 'merger' will be interesting.
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« Reply #248 on: March 11, 2010, 09:16:04 PM »

Being off the island had a weird effect on Alex...she became super hot! 

For most of the series I've thought of Ben as just a pawn, albeit, an important one, because he was so impressionable due to his need to be important and wanted.  He was simple to manipulate with a few tweaks to his ego, and off he would go.  The alt reality was the first time I saw Ben rise up above that need to help someone...Alex.  I've always thought of him as an intelligent and calculating character, but not particularly strong of character or will.     
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« Reply #249 on: March 11, 2010, 11:56:05 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on March 11, 2010, 06:16:24 PM

Ben is broken, most of the people I've talked to think his core story arc is just about done and really the character is not much more than a tool at this point. 

A tool that's been used, broken, and thrown away. I thought his pathos was in character.
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« Reply #250 on: March 15, 2010, 05:58:42 AM »

Series finale Spoiler:

Spoiler for Hiden:
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« Reply #251 on: March 15, 2010, 04:23:21 PM »

Quote from: Malificent on March 11, 2010, 12:18:21 PM

Jacob is the representative of faith and destiny and Flocke (MiB) of free will and decisions based on information.

I think you have this backwards. Remember, it was Jacob who said there is always a choice, right before Ben stabs him.
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« Reply #252 on: March 16, 2010, 02:28:35 AM »

When is the series finale? I'm still waiting for this to end with answers before I start watching it...
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« Reply #253 on: March 16, 2010, 03:44:24 AM »

Quote from: Punisher on March 16, 2010, 02:28:35 AM

When is the series finale? I'm still waiting for this to end with answers before I start watching it...


Sunday, May 23.
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« Reply #254 on: March 16, 2010, 12:54:26 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 16, 2010, 03:44:24 AM

Quote from: Punisher on March 16, 2010, 02:28:35 AM

When is the series finale? I'm still waiting for this to end with answers before I start watching it...


Sunday, May 23.
Thanks... 2 more months, then probably another month or 2 to hit DVD.... Still have a wait then...
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« Reply #255 on: March 17, 2010, 02:04:59 PM »

Hello. It's me again. Your resident NNoN.  icon_biggrin

So Sawyer (Ford) is a cop in no-crash land.  Roll Eyes Going, ah, undercover looks to be a damn good gig. nod I'm guessing Kate will know who bad Sawyer is and good Sawyer will bust Kate out of jail and they will go hunting for bad Sawyer together.

Good episode, though. "I had a crazy mother." I bet that's a big hint about who smokey really is.

 Looking forward to next week. I wonder if they really will answer questions about Richard? (we need a cynical smilie)

I'm still not getting how these two time/reality lines are going to merge.
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« Reply #256 on: March 17, 2010, 02:37:58 PM »

I think there's one thing we can all agree on, though:  Claire should never have left Australia without at least a 10 year supply of makeup and a brush.
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« Reply #257 on: March 17, 2010, 06:31:20 PM »

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on March 17, 2010, 02:04:59 PM

Good episode, though. "I had a crazy mother." I bet that's a big hint about who smokey really is.

For some reason I was kind of bored this episode and I did not enjoy the way it ended with Sawyer's plots unresolved and Kate popping up (my friend calls her the D and D roll - you rolled a 6, Kate appears!!!) out of the blue.  I'm guessing they intend to follow up but with so few episodes there's no guarantee.

The best part of the episode for me was what you referred to - the crazy mother.  Anyone good with Egyptian mythology or Christian stories know who this might be referring to?
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« Reply #258 on: March 17, 2010, 07:32:09 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on March 17, 2010, 06:31:20 PM

The best part of the episode for me was what you referred to - the crazy mother.  Anyone good with Egyptian mythology or Christian stories know who this might be referring to?

Isis? Though I don't think she was crazy. Cleopatra (who thought she was Isis)?

I can't think of any New Testament stories about crazy mothers. There probably are some in the Old Testament, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
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« Reply #259 on: March 17, 2010, 09:32:46 PM »

The thing that kills me is that we're seeing all sorts of things that would make great shows on their own:  Locke and Linus together, or Sawyer and Miles as cops in LA.  I mean, seriously, I would watch that.
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« Reply #260 on: March 17, 2010, 09:46:48 PM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on March 17, 2010, 09:32:46 PM

or Sawyer and Miles as cops in LA.  I mean, seriously, I would watch that.

it was good up until the scene with 3 foot nothin' miles shoving 6 and a half foot Sawyer up against the lockers. 
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« Reply #261 on: March 24, 2010, 04:34:16 AM »

Someone please assure me that the hell/devil aspect isn't literal.
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« Reply #262 on: March 24, 2010, 08:30:09 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on March 24, 2010, 04:34:16 AM

Someone please assure me that the hell/devil aspect isn't literal.

I'm sure it's not as simple as that.  Jacob/MIB were simply putting things in terms that Richard would be familiar with.
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« Reply #263 on: March 24, 2010, 02:01:43 PM »

Great episode, but a textbook example of Retcon 101. They did a good job though.
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« Reply #264 on: March 24, 2010, 02:47:05 PM »

The producers have repeatedly said "They're not dead, and they're not in heaven or hell."  So there's that.
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« Reply #265 on: March 24, 2010, 06:20:30 PM »

Quote from: JayDee on March 24, 2010, 02:01:43 PM

Great episode, but a textbook example of Retcon 101. They did a good job though.

I was about to ask why the episode was a retcon, but then I looked up the definition and realized you are right. It's just that the word "retcon" these days is usually used to describe a situation in which the writers of a story go back and change something because they regret how the original story ended up. I seriously don't think that's the case here.

Also, awesome episode! Very unusual style for Lost, but it's been a long time coming. smile
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« Reply #266 on: March 24, 2010, 06:22:12 PM »

I was hoping that Richard would have been from ancient Egypt, somewhere around 4,000-6,000 years old.  I mean, he has the cool black eye liner to go with that motif.  I guess I was just hoping for more dramatic mystery than what was revealed in the episode.  Even something like he was a feared and ruthless pirate captain would have been cool, rather than a prisoner.

They played enough dialogue games in this episode that I'm still not sure who is good/evil, if there is such a neatly defined concept on the island.  The producers definitely use the imagery for good/evil.  The white rock.  Jacob wears a white shirt, Smoke Monster wears a black shirt.  Jacob even uses words like evil and dark to describe the Smoke Monster.  All of that seems too much like a convenient setup by the writers though.  

I do think that Richard was royally messed with by both sides, for their own personal agendas.  It also supports the theory that both sides need people to do their dirty work.  Most of their energy is spent recruiting.  
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« Reply #267 on: March 24, 2010, 10:39:52 PM »

I suddenly realized why it's so important that Nemesis doesn't leave the Island. It may have been obvious to the rest of you, but I didn't catch it until I rewatched this episode. Jacob says during his wine analogy that if the darkness gets out of the bottle, it will spread. I didn't really catch what he meant at the time, but thinking more about it he's probably talking about the Infection. If Nemesis gets to the mainland he can start infecting everyone, turning them into mindless thralls in the same way as Sayid. It doesn't matter if he's good or evil, because this outcome is bad no matter how you twist and turn it.
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« Reply #268 on: March 24, 2010, 10:58:28 PM »

I loved the episode.  After watching it, I don't think either Jacob or the MIB is necessarily good or evil. 

If you believe Jacob's story, he brings "candidates" to the island just to prove to MIB that people are inherently good and not all corruptible.  They just play this morality game to pass the time while Jacob contains the MIB on the island.  Obviously, the people that accompany the candidates to the island are fair game for the MIB to kill or use as he sees fit.   Jacob doesn't show any remorse or concern for those people, which makes him hypocritical and immoral as well.  He preaches free will but the slaves and crew of the Black Rock didn't choose to be part of their game.

It's more like two marooned angels who have a differing opinion on the character of the human race than a God/Devil thing.

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« Reply #269 on: March 24, 2010, 11:13:12 PM »

Quote from: jament on March 24, 2010, 10:58:28 PM

It's more like two marooned angels who have a differing opinion on the character of the human race than a God/Devil thing.

That's a cool interpretation!

One question I have.  If we pre-suppose that Jacob is telling the truth about the island serving as the cork that holds the Smoke Monster in check from leaking out and spreading, what does this mean for the alt-universe where the island has sunk?  Does that mean that he is free to roam/spread in the world, and if so, why does there seem to be no repercussions to our cast?  In fact it looks like our heroes are for the most part doing better in the alt-universe.
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« Reply #270 on: March 25, 2010, 12:44:40 PM »

My current theory is that Lost actually has a similar setup to Fringe (another JJ Abrams show) in that there are two realities in opposition to each other. The twist here is that Nemesis isn't trapped on the Island. He's trapped in our dimension, and the Island is what stands in the way of him returning to his own. This is why things seem so much brighter in the flash-sideways sequences. Nemesis simply isn't present in that dimension, though he is trying really hard to come back.

This would also explain how the two realities will be merged. At some point in one of the next few episodes the cork will pop and the gateway between these two realities will open. The remaining Losties will then have to desperately stop Nemesis in order to protect their alternate selves, though they may die or corrupt themselves in the process. With this in mind we can also assume that the flash-sideways sequences are indeed sort of the epilogue to the show.
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« Reply #271 on: March 25, 2010, 01:38:30 PM »

Sooo...

Good episode...wish they would have spent a little more time with Richard after he became Jacob's ally(?), but that's OK.

I've come to the conclusion that both Jacob and Smokey are lying bastards and utterly amoral.

I don't trust Jacob and his explanations one little tiny bit although I probably should.

It seems to me that Smokey's 'infections' are more about bringing out the dark side (true side?) of people or showing them the outcomes of their bad side (Sayid the killer, Claire the baby abandoner, French chick...hmm...dunno, been too long.

I really don't see how these two realities are going to merge. I know that's a given here, but I've never been able to find where the writers have said this.

I really have no idea what the hell is going on.  icon_lol

Quote
the flash-sideways sequences are indeed sort of the epilogue to the show
Man, I hope not. I really hate the sideways stuff...it's all so Truman Show-like to me. If Lost ends with all the Losties dead except for Jacob's replacement (Hurley?) with everything all hunky-dory in no-crash-land I'll be sorely disappointed.

random crappy thoughts not worth reading in spoiler tags  icon_lol
Spoiler for Hiden:
According to Jacob:
The Island is the cork that keeps the MD2020 from escaping.
Smokey thinks mankind is evil by nature (?)
Jacob can't (won't?) intercede on behalf of the people he brings to the Island.
Thinks people are basically good.

According to Smokey:
He wants off he Island (wants to 'go home')
Can't get off the Island with Jacob alive (reason not explained...yet)
Wants to kill Jacob, but can't do it himself

Is Jacob 'powering' the Island somehow?
Both Jacob and Smokey can only be killed the same way.

Isabella claims she and Ricardo are together (Island is the beginning to after life world?)
Hurley talks to dead people (although I think it's Jacob he's always been talking to)
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« Reply #272 on: March 26, 2010, 12:38:54 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on March 25, 2010, 12:44:40 PM

My current theory is that Lost actually has a similar setup to Fringe (another JJ Abrams show) in that there are two realities in opposition to each other. The twist here is that Nemesis isn't trapped on the Island. He's trapped in our dimension, and the Island is what stands in the way of him returning to his own. This is why things seem so much brighter in the flash-sideways sequences. Nemesis simply isn't present in that dimension, though he is trying really hard to come back.

This would also explain how the two realities will be merged. At some point in one of the next few episodes the cork will pop and the gateway between these two realities will open. The remaining Losties will then have to desperately stop Nemesis in order to protect their alternate selves, though they may die or corrupt themselves in the process. With this in mind we can also assume that the flash-sideways sequences are indeed sort of the epilogue to the show.


I find this a very compelling and intriguing theory.  The only thing I wonder about is in the flash-sideways we've seen the island/cork is sunk, which kind of implies the opposite, that Nemesis is free in THAT dimension.  Which could also imply that Jacob was lying all along, and Smokey is a good force that was being held back.  That would be a fun twist if they could pull it off, but it doesn't look like they are going that direction.
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« Reply #273 on: March 31, 2010, 10:03:14 AM »

I guess this means we'll never get an answer to what was up with Walt.
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« Reply #274 on: March 31, 2010, 01:31:28 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on March 31, 2010, 10:03:14 AM

I guess this means we'll never get an answer to what was up with Walt.

What makes you say that? I watched last night's episode and didn't see anything that ruled out any explanation.
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« Reply #275 on: March 31, 2010, 01:57:51 PM »

Well, with only 7 episodes left, one of them being two hours long, the way I saw it was that if Walt wasn't in the locked room in the sub, he wasn't coming at all. We now know that Walt wasn't in that room.
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« Reply #276 on: March 31, 2010, 02:02:48 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on March 31, 2010, 01:57:51 PM

Well, with only 7 episodes left, one of them being two hours long, the way I saw it was that if Walt wasn't in the locked room in the sub, he wasn't coming at all. We now know that Walt wasn't in that room.

Ah, I see.

I think the actor that plays Walt grew up too fast to be used on the show now. He's six years older but the show is only three years further along in their story. That's a big difference for someone Walt's age.
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« Reply #277 on: April 01, 2010, 01:56:23 AM »

You know if Desmond ends up on that island keeping smokey trapped while (almost) everyone gets off the island alive I don't think I'll be very happy.

So smokey needs all the candidates to leave with him or he can't go (makes sense)
If he gets off the island, everyone 'ceases to exist' according to that piece of shit Widmore. No idea what that's all about unless he didn't mean it literally (as in dead), but spiritually as in 'infected'.
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« Reply #278 on: April 01, 2010, 02:01:50 AM »

Quote from: JayDee on March 31, 2010, 02:02:48 PM

Quote from: TiLT on March 31, 2010, 01:57:51 PM

Well, with only 7 episodes left, one of them being two hours long, the way I saw it was that if Walt wasn't in the locked room in the sub, he wasn't coming at all. We now know that Walt wasn't in that room.

Ah, I see.

I think the actor that plays Walt grew up too fast to be used on the show now. He's six years older but the show is only three years further along in their story. That's a big difference for someone Walt's age.

I read somewhere they were going to try to do something to acknowledge or tie up Walt's storyline.  It was vague but it almost sounded like they were considering using CGI or something like that.  Maybe for the finale...

I called Desmond in the submarine to my friends at work so I was pretty happy about that.  Now the question is what are the plans for him?  Given that he is the one who brought down Flight 815 by not pushing the button, plus his time travel ability as "the constant"- is it possible they want to use him to send his consciousness back in time so that he doesn't shoot the plane down?  And thereby creating the alternate universe and/or "merging" the realities?  But what would Widmore possibly gain by doing this, unless he wants to create a reality where the Losties (and Ben) never existed so that he can control the island (an alt-alt reality)?   Ack I think my brain is going to explode.

Either way it was a fun episode, I'm glad they acknowledged some of the new "rules" for what Lockemonster can and cannot do, and what he needs to do to get off the island.  
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« Reply #279 on: April 01, 2010, 01:54:53 PM »

It's no secret that I've been skeptical that the two time-lines are going to merge, but I wonder if Sun's inability to speak English after her bash on the head was the first hint of this actually happening since she doesn't speak English in no-crash land?
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