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Author Topic: Lost: The Final Season (spoilers not tagged)  (Read 22452 times)
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TiLT
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« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2010, 05:35:00 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 01:15:18 AM

Spoiler for Hiden:
How does Non-Locke's wanting to go home fit in with your theory, BTW?

Spoiler for Hiden:
I don't think he means it literally. If it is a robot/AI of some kind, it might just mean returning to its "birthplace", wherever that is, for deactivation and sleep. It could very well be on the Island itself.
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« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2010, 01:41:52 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
I dont recall if I read it here or at OO about a theory of NotLocke being an alien. I don't buy it. I think smokey is pure evil. As I recall the first person to die from it was Mr Eko. Recall he was pretending to be a priest and building a church. Also remember that the guy there in this season's first ep created a circle of ash or something around him to protect himself which Smokey could not enter. they do circles or ash or salt and stuff for evil and demons as I recall. Also the people at the temple were doing the same thing.
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« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2010, 02:03:39 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
I've been mulling over the alien angle for a couple of days myself.  Something in the recent issue of EW made me think of that.  They're shipwrecked. They had the life-sustaining liquid on the ship and transplanted it to the pool, but they can't get too far away from it.  But then Jacob found a way, and the other guy wants that way, too, and to use it to get home.  There's no reason, necessarily, that the ash circle couldn't also work against an alien.

However, the protective circle does feature prominently in supernatural stories.  And Cuse himself said this in EW: [it's] not only a conflict between the two of them as representatives of good and evil, but also a conflict about what is the fundamental nature of man.  Is man good or is man evil?"  Plus, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn-g8OmkEIE (and BTW, was Locke's secret just the wheelchair thing?)

Also, as to how the island could be sunk by the bomb, I don't know how it ties in, but think of the Black Rock.  Perhaps the island has the ability to rise and sink.  Maybe it retreats when wounded.  Or something.

Not sure why I keep coming back to the island being alive.
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« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2010, 02:12:00 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
The alien angle has always been tempting with Lost because it would explain so much. Just like religion, really. slywink I strongly believe they won't pull that one on us.

The fundamental nature of man that you mention was already clearly touched upon in the fifth season finale. Jacob keeps bringing people to the Island for some reason. Nemesis insists that it always ends with them killing each other. Jacob believes that sooner or later this will end, and it only ends once. Everything before that is just progress, as he says.

The Island isn't alive either, unless they're really trying to surprise us with a stupid twist. There's been nothing to indicate that it has a mind of its own. Every time someone says that the Island made this or that happen, they're actually talking in metaphors, whether they know it or not. The best example is when Michael tries to kill himself in season 4. He's completely unable to, despite his best efforts. He's told that the Island won't let him die yet. We get the impression the Island has a mind of its own. Later we realize that he couldn't kill himself because it would cause a paradox. The Island had nothing to do with it except to facilitate the time traveling that makes these paradoxes appear.

Oh, and Daehawk? Nice try, but you're in way over your head here. slywink
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« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2010, 02:43:29 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
I really should be working, but... icon_lol

And I'm probably 100% wrong on all this, but I almost think it's more fun to speculate about the show than it is to watch it.  icon_biggrin

1. smokey is pissed. really, really pissed. That look Locke gave Ben was friggin' awesome.
2. and he's rightfully pissed because he wants to go home and the Others won't let him
3. the Others are keeping smokey from going home
4. smokey is using the Losties to destroy the Others' grip on smokey. The Jacob appearing to Hurley was smokey.
5. who the hell built the technology of the Island? Jacob, Ben, Widmore were all trying to use it, but no Egyptians, Black Rock sailors or dumbass Dharma people built it.
6. The Good vs. Evil is the Others vs. the Losties. The Others have been exploiting smokey for generations for their own selfish purposes. Like my wife said about the Losties after the plane landed: they would have been better off not having things reset.
7. Lost has always been an unapologetically science fiction show.
8. maybe smokey is alien in the sense of the non-humans in "The Abyss"
9. I'm not sold on the congruent time-line stuff. I still think the LA stuff is after the Losties defeat the Others and free smokey.
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« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2010, 03:11:51 PM »

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on February 04, 2010, 02:43:29 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I really should be working, but... icon_lol

And I'm probably 100% wrong on all this, but I almost think it's more fun to speculate about the show than it is to watch it.  icon_biggrin

1. smokey is pissed. really, really pissed. That look Locke gave Ben was friggin' awesome.
2. and he's rightfully pissed because he wants to go home and the Others won't let him
3. the Others are keeping smokey from going home
4. smokey is using the Losties to destroy the Others' grip on smokey. The Jacob appearing to Hurley was smokey.
5. who the hell built the technology of the Island? Jacob, Ben, Widmore were all trying to use it, but no Egyptians, Black Rock sailors or dumbass Dharma people built it.
6. The Good vs. Evil is the Others vs. the Losties. The Others have been exploiting smokey for generations for their own selfish purposes. Like my wife said about the Losties after the plane landed: they would have been better off not having things reset.
7. Lost has always been an unapologetically science fiction show.
8. maybe smokey is alien in the sense of the non-humans in "The Abyss"
9. I'm not sold on the congruent time-line stuff. I still think the LA stuff is after the Losties defeat the Others and free smokey.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Regarding a few of your points:

3. What makes you think they do that? The only conscious interactions we've seen between the Others and Nemesis (the smoke monster) have been Ben summoning the monster from a secret entrance in his house (something that may have been hidden even from Richard for all we know) and Ben going to the smoke monster to be judged (which I think was just something he said in order to give his return to the main island some credibility, but his plans went to hell when Nemesis insisted on coming along, forcing Ben to actually go through with it).
4. What grip? Their only power over it was the sonic fence, and it didn't trap Nemesis. It just kept it away from the Others' homes.
6. How have the Others exploited Nemesis? You're seeing something I don't here.
9. The creators have said that these are flash-sideways (as opposed to flash-forward and flashbacks). That implies that they happen at the same time. I don't think that's entirely the case though. The alternate reality thing started at the point where the plane would have crashed, which is more than 3 years earlier than the point in time where the Losties reappeared after the bomb went off. This makes the LAX-section take place way earlier than the rest, not later. Sawyer's conversation with Juliet also implied a future event in the alternate reality where the timelines cross (for her at least) for a few seconds as she dies in the "real world", again reinforcing that the time difference places the LAX-storyline behind the rest in time.
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« Reply #86 on: February 04, 2010, 03:26:12 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
I never said the island had a mind of its own, just that it could be alive.

As for the flash sideways, I basically agree with LSS.  It's not a flash forward, for sure.  Now, given the time difference, and the likelihood that no one will be better off with the reset, it could be that even those people have to get to the island somehow, and the other people we're seeing (the ones we believe to have come from the 70s) are those same people having gone through a whole other series of insane adventures to get to this point (or are in some kind of loop), but I don't buy that, since it throws everything up to now out the window).

One other thing I've always wondered about:  Where the hell are the kids?  One of the Others' main goal toward the beginning was to get Walt.  And the kid(s) from the Tailies' group.  Why?  There may be nothing to this, of course, but I think it's interesting that the first kids we've seen in forever were at the temple.

For a long time I wondered if the kids were being used to "power" the island.  Maybe they're tied into the pool, somehow (to fuel it or what, I don't know).  Again, this may be nothing, and the reason we don't see the kids is because it's hard to shoot an extended series with them, since they noticeably age.

It's interesting, too, that everyone kind of assumes that the pool is a Fountain of Youth scenario.  It certainly fits.  It explains why Whidmore is so desparate to get back there.
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« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2010, 03:31:41 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 03:26:12 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
One other thing I've always wondered about:  Where the hell are the kids?  One of the Others' main goal toward the beginning was to get Walt.  And the kid(s) from the Tailies' group.  Why?  There may be nothing to this, of course, but I think it's interesting that the first kids we've seen in forever were at the temple.

Spoiler for Hiden:
The kids from the plane supposedly showed up at the temple in episode 2 of this season. I think it's pretty obvious at this point why the Others kidnapped them: They can't breed. No kids can be born on the Island any longer, a development that is reasonably new (kids were healthy during the Dharma period). Their only chance to replenish their ranks is to kidnap young kids and indoctrinate them.
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« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2010, 03:52:35 PM »

For what it's worth I agree with alot of what LoneStarrSpur says.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I think when all is said and done Smokey/man in black/NonLocke will end up being a "goodguy" and siding with the losties against Jacob and the others.  I also think while we think the LAX parts are the results of the nuclear explosion from 1977, they are in reality the result of what happens at the end of what is going on on the Island during what we think is the present day.  And thus we really do not know why the island is at the bottom of the ocean yet.


Of course I could be completely wrong.  That's one of the things I love about this show.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 03:54:06 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2010, 04:11:31 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on February 04, 2010, 03:31:41 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 03:26:12 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
One other thing I've always wondered about:  Where the hell are the kids?  One of the Others' main goal toward the beginning was to get Walt.  And the kid(s) from the Tailies' group.  Why?  There may be nothing to this, of course, but I think it's interesting that the first kids we've seen in forever were at the temple.

Spoiler for Hiden:
The kids from the plane supposedly showed up at the temple in episode 2 of this season. I think it's pretty obvious at this point why the Others kidnapped them: They can't breed. No kids can be born on the Island any longer, a development that is reasonably new (kids were healthy during the Dharma period). Their only chance to replenish their ranks is to kidnap young kids and indoctrinate them.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I don't see that as "obvious."  That's not a strong enough motivating factor, especially given that they were actively researching a way to produce more children.  And it may not have been new.  While there were kids on the island during the Dharma period (and I can't remember if the couple from 24 delivered the 70s baby [did they for sure conceive on the island?]), how many of them were made there?

Quote from: denoginizer on February 04, 2010, 03:52:35 PM

For what it's worth I agree with alot of what LoneStarrSpur says.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I think when all is said and done Smokey/man in black/NonLocke will end up being a "goodguy" and siding with the losties against Jacob and the others.  I also think while we think the LAX parts are the results of the nuclear explosion from 1977, they are in reality the result of what happens at the end of what is going on on the Island during what we think is the present day.  And thus we really do not know why the island is at the bottom of the ocean yet.


Of course I could be completely wrong.  That's one of the things I love about this show.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Every thing that happens on the plane (and off of it) in the LAX scenes show that it is a direct continuation of the flight that crashed at the beginning.  Jack and Rose's conversation, Kate being handcuffed to the same fed, Charlie in the bathroom, Jack's father in the coffin, Locke returning from an attempted walkabout, et al.  It's definitely not a different flight.  It just stretches believability.  They even reference the flight number somewhere in the episode.  Now, there could be a reason that the bomb didn't cause that continuation to happen, and they have to do something else entirely to make it so, but it's still a continuation of that first flight.
Probably.  I agree that it's fun to make theories and see them thrown out the window as new layers come off.  It drives me nuts when people get cocky with their theories and dismiss others.  Sorry if it seemed like I was doing that.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 04:13:59 PM by Bullwinkle » Logged

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« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2010, 04:25:53 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 04:11:31 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I don't see that as "obvious."  That's not a strong enough motivating factor, especially given that they were actively researching a way to produce more children.  And it may not have been new.  While there were kids on the island during the Dharma period (and I can't remember if the couple from 24 delivered the 70s baby [did they for sure conceive on the island?]), how many of them were made there?

Spoiler for Hiden:
I completely disagree with you. The Others are willing to die to protect the Island, and they also know that eventually they will die from old age and will need younger blood to replace them. If they don't get kids from other people somehow, the Others will cease to exist. The show has made it very clear that children can no longer be born from someone who has spent their last two trimesters or so on the Island (they never figured out the exact number), and only a select few Others are ever allowed to leave for short periods (we've only seen Richard and Tom do that so far. Ben, Widmore and Eloise left but couldn't return (directly, at least). That the Others actively recruited Juliet, an outsider, in order to help them give birth on the Island again, shows just how desperate they are.

We also saw a birth among the Dharma people in season 5. They made a big point out of it, making it clear that whatever made births impossible later hadn't happened yet (Juliet points this out herself).
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« Reply #91 on: February 04, 2010, 04:27:08 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
Have never seen 1 single episode of this show. Just found it funny as hell to open a page and see nothing but spoiler tags.
Figured I'd join in!!
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« Reply #92 on: February 04, 2010, 04:29:54 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
I'm entirely confident that the bomb split a parallel universe off at the moment of the explosion.  Frankly, the fact that time travel/ displacement figures so prominently since last season pretty I would have been shocked if the concept hadn't entered the show.

I'm thinking the bomb discharged that energy that necessitated the hatch that Desmond manned.  The physical effect of the bomb was sinking the island. The chronal effect was fragmenting the timestream. Since Jack, Sawyer, etc. were already charged with chronal energy and had experienced the timeslips previously, the bomb set them back to their present.  I'm hoping the two timelines start interacting with each other, to be honest. That would be pretty cool.
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« Reply #93 on: February 04, 2010, 04:32:01 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 04, 2010, 04:29:54 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I'm entirely confident that the bomb split a parallel universe off at the moment of the explosion.  Frankly, the fact that time travel/ displacement figures so prominently since last season pretty I would have been shocked if the concept hadn't entered the show.

I'm thinking the bomb discharged that energy that necessitated the hatch that Desmond manned.  The physical effect of the bomb was sinking the island. The chronal effect was fragmenting the timestream. Since Jack, Sawyer, etc. were already charged with chronal energy and had experienced the timeslips previously, the bomb set them back to their present.  I'm hoping the two timelines start interacting with each other, to be honest. That would be pretty cool.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Jack never experienced the time slips. Nor did Kate, Hurley, Sun, Sayid, Ben or Desmond (well, Desmond had his own variant earlier).
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« Reply #94 on: February 04, 2010, 04:47:06 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on February 04, 2010, 04:32:01 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 04, 2010, 04:29:54 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I'm entirely confident that the bomb split a parallel universe off at the moment of the explosion.  Frankly, the fact that time travel/ displacement figures so prominently since last season pretty I would have been shocked if the concept hadn't entered the show.

I'm thinking the bomb discharged that energy that necessitated the hatch that Desmond manned.  The physical effect of the bomb was sinking the island. The chronal effect was fragmenting the timestream. Since Jack, Sawyer, etc. were already charged with chronal energy and had experienced the timeslips previously, the bomb set them back to their present.  I'm hoping the two timelines start interacting with each other, to be honest. That would be pretty cool.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Jack never experienced the time slips. Nor did Kate, Hurley, Sun, Sayid, Ben or Desmond (well, Desmond had his own variant earlier).
Spoiler for Hiden:
Ummm, yeah they did. They ended up in 1977, remember? (well, not Ben, Sun or Desmond). Sure, they left the island and came back, but they definitely got shifted back in time
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« Reply #95 on: February 04, 2010, 04:57:30 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 04, 2010, 04:47:06 PM

Quote from: TiLT on February 04, 2010, 04:32:01 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 04, 2010, 04:29:54 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I'm entirely confident that the bomb split a parallel universe off at the moment of the explosion.  Frankly, the fact that time travel/ displacement figures so prominently since last season pretty I would have been shocked if the concept hadn't entered the show.

I'm thinking the bomb discharged that energy that necessitated the hatch that Desmond manned.  The physical effect of the bomb was sinking the island. The chronal effect was fragmenting the timestream. Since Jack, Sawyer, etc. were already charged with chronal energy and had experienced the timeslips previously, the bomb set them back to their present.  I'm hoping the two timelines start interacting with each other, to be honest. That would be pretty cool.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Jack never experienced the time slips. Nor did Kate, Hurley, Sun, Sayid, Ben or Desmond (well, Desmond had his own variant earlier).
Spoiler for Hiden:
Ummm, yeah they did. They ended up in 1977, remember? (well, not Ben, Sun or Desmond). Sure, they left the island and came back, but they definitely got shifted back in time


Spoiler for Hiden:
I think TiLT's referring to the Time Slips as being the headache-inducing shifts that one group went through.  You're right, though, even though they only did it once, they still slipped back in time.

Also, I'm guessing it's probably the bomb that made it impossible to give birth on the island.  Radiation?  Or is the bomb a part of that island's past or is that only the sunken island?

The Others were desparate for children, no doubt.  I just don't buy the "legacy" thing.  That's what doesn't seem like a strong enough dramatic reason.
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« Reply #96 on: February 04, 2010, 05:01:17 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 04:11:31 PM

Quote from: TiLT on February 04, 2010, 03:31:41 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 03:26:12 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
One other thing I've always wondered about:  Where the hell are the kids?  One of the Others' main goal toward the beginning was to get Walt.  And the kid(s) from the Tailies' group.  Why?  There may be nothing to this, of course, but I think it's interesting that the first kids we've seen in forever were at the temple.

Spoiler for Hiden:
The kids from the plane supposedly showed up at the temple in episode 2 of this season. I think it's pretty obvious at this point why the Others kidnapped them: They can't breed. No kids can be born on the Island any longer, a development that is reasonably new (kids were healthy during the Dharma period). Their only chance to replenish their ranks is to kidnap young kids and indoctrinate them.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I don't see that as "obvious."  That's not a strong enough motivating factor, especially given that they were actively researching a way to produce more children.  And it may not have been new.  While there were kids on the island during the Dharma period (and I can't remember if the couple from 24 delivered the 70s baby [did they for sure conceive on the island?]), how many of them were made there?

Quote from: denoginizer on February 04, 2010, 03:52:35 PM

For what it's worth I agree with alot of what LoneStarrSpur says.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I think when all is said and done Smokey/man in black/NonLocke will end up being a "goodguy" and siding with the losties against Jacob and the others.  I also think while we think the LAX parts are the results of the nuclear explosion from 1977, they are in reality the result of what happens at the end of what is going on on the Island during what we think is the present day.  And thus we really do not know why the island is at the bottom of the ocean yet.


Of course I could be completely wrong.  That's one of the things I love about this show.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Every thing that happens on the plane (and off of it) in the LAX scenes show that it is a direct continuation of the flight that crashed at the beginning.  Jack and Rose's conversation, Kate being handcuffed to the same fed, Charlie in the bathroom, Jack's father in the coffin, Locke returning from an attempted walkabout, et al.  It's definitely not a different flight.  It just stretches believability.  They even reference the flight number somewhere in the episode.  Now, there could be a reason that the bomb didn't cause that continuation to happen, and they have to do something else entirely to make it so, but it's still a continuation of that first flight.
Probably.  I agree that it's fun to make theories and see them thrown out the window as new layers come off.  It drives me nuts when people get cocky with their theories and dismiss others.  Sorry if it seemed like I was doing that.

Nah, it's all good. I've only been right once in all the years I've been speculatin' about this crazy show. That's not a good batting average.  icon_lol

but...
Spoiler for Hiden:
The current flight isn't really the same as the one that crashed.

Des was there. Locke got to go on his walkabout (at least he says he did). Hugo is the luckiest man alive and owns the chicken corporation. The coffin is lost (heh).

Anyway...all in good fun!
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« Reply #97 on: February 04, 2010, 05:02:55 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 04:57:30 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 04, 2010, 04:47:06 PM

Quote from: TiLT on February 04, 2010, 04:32:01 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 04, 2010, 04:29:54 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I'm entirely confident that the bomb split a parallel universe off at the moment of the explosion.  Frankly, the fact that time travel/ displacement figures so prominently since last season pretty I would have been shocked if the concept hadn't entered the show.

I'm thinking the bomb discharged that energy that necessitated the hatch that Desmond manned.  The physical effect of the bomb was sinking the island. The chronal effect was fragmenting the timestream. Since Jack, Sawyer, etc. were already charged with chronal energy and had experienced the timeslips previously, the bomb set them back to their present.  I'm hoping the two timelines start interacting with each other, to be honest. That would be pretty cool.
Spoiler for Hiden:
Jack never experienced the time slips. Nor did Kate, Hurley, Sun, Sayid, Ben or Desmond (well, Desmond had his own variant earlier).
Spoiler for Hiden:
Ummm, yeah they did. They ended up in 1977, remember? (well, not Ben, Sun or Desmond). Sure, they left the island and came back, but they definitely got shifted back in time


Spoiler for Hiden:
I think TiLT's referring to the Time Slips as being the headache-inducing shifts that one group went through.  You're right, though, even though they only did it once, they still slipped back in time.

Also, I'm guessing it's probably the bomb that made it impossible to give birth on the island.  Radiation?  Or is the bomb a part of that island's past or is that only the sunken island?

The Others were desparate for children, no doubt.  I just don't buy the "legacy" thing.  That's what doesn't seem like a strong enough dramatic reason.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Yeah, I forgot that they did slip back that one time.

I don't think the bomb detonated in the previous reality we're used to, as this was the catalyst that split the timelines. We now have one reality where the bomb detonated (sunken Island) and one where it didn't (normal Island).

It's likely that the Incident caused the fertility problems, if I were to venture a guess. The Incident happened in both timelines, though it was more dramatic in the detonation version.
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« Reply #98 on: February 04, 2010, 05:04:08 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 04:11:31 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
Every thing that happens on the plane (and off of it) in the LAX scenes show that it is a direct continuation of the flight that crashed at the beginning.  Jack and Rose's conversation, Kate being handcuffed to the same fed, Charlie in the bathroom, Jack's father in the coffin, Locke returning from an attempted walkabout, et al.  It's definitely not a different flight.

Spoiler for Hiden:
What about Desmond being on the plane?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 05:06:22 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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« Reply #99 on: February 04, 2010, 05:08:51 PM »

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on February 04, 2010, 05:01:17 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
The current flight isn't really the same as the one that crashed.

Des was there. Locke got to go on his walkabout (at least he says he did). Hugo is the luckiest man alive and owns the chicken corporation. The coffin is lost (heh).

Anyway...all in good fun!

Not so fast, cowboy!

Spoiler for Hiden:
Was Desmond really there? He suddenly appeared, then suddenly disappeared. Jack was the only one who saw him.

Locke just said he was on the walkabout, yet he was restricted to a wheelchair. We have no indication that his past history that lead to his broken back had anything to do with the Island, which means that it's unlikely this changed because the Island sunk.

Hurley is interesting here. His fate is closely tied to the Island, and something changed there. We'll have to wait for the details, but my initial guess is this: The Numbers are parameters in an equation that predicts the end of the world (that wasn't my guess. This is established canon already). This is what makes them "cursed". In the new reality, the end of the world might have been changed, thus invalidating the Numbers' negative presence. This could be an extremely important factor to the end of the season.

The coffin is indeed gone, and this is the biggest change between the two realities. The implications are unclear. Did Christian Shepard's involvement with the Island begin long before Flight 815? Was this what lead to his drinking problem? I guess we'll know soon enough. smile
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« Reply #100 on: February 04, 2010, 05:14:48 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was asking my wife about the coffin, and we couldn't remember.  Did they find Jack's father's coffin on the island?  With Jack's father in it?

Desmond could still have been on the plane, as his timeline (being trapped on the island) had changed as well.  Though he wasn't on the original flight, he could be on the rebooted one.  It would still be the same flight, just with different parameters (this applies to Hurley, too).  Pretty sure I remember Locke telling someone he'd been on Walkabout earlier in the show's run, too, but then we found out he didn't actually get to do it.
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« Reply #101 on: February 04, 2010, 05:35:15 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 04, 2010, 05:14:48 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was asking my wife about the coffin, and we couldn't remember.  Did they find Jack's father's coffin on the island?  With Jack's father in it?

Desmond could still have been on the plane, as his timeline (being trapped on the island) had changed as well.  Though he wasn't on the original flight, he could be on the rebooted one.  It would still be the same flight, just with different parameters (this applies to Hurley, too).  Pretty sure I remember Locke telling someone he'd been on Walkabout earlier in the show's run, too, but then we found out he didn't actually get to do it.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Jack found the coffin early in season 1, but it was empty (yet still closed). Christian's body was never found.

Desmond not being on the plane seems almost too obvious when you consider the hints they dropped, unless they are deliberately trying to mislead us. Desmond suddenly appeared, and just as suddenly disappeared. Nobody else interacted with him. Jack leans over to Rose and asks where the guy next to him went. She says she doesn't know who Jack's talking about, since she was sleeping.

Yes, Desmond could indeed have been on that plane by random chance, and that was my first thought too. With hindsight however, I no longer believe this is the case. This could be a hint of something to come in a later episode. Desmond is quite likely somehow "unhinged" again, and may be an important key to merging the two realities.
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« Reply #102 on: February 04, 2010, 06:09:36 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on February 04, 2010, 05:08:51 PM

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on February 04, 2010, 05:01:17 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
The current flight isn't really the same as the one that crashed.

Des was there. Locke got to go on his walkabout (at least he says he did). Hugo is the luckiest man alive and owns the chicken corporation. The coffin is lost (heh).

Anyway...all in good fun!

Not so fast, cowboy!

Spoiler for Hiden:
Was Desmond really there? He suddenly appeared, then suddenly disappeared. Jack was the only one who saw him.

Locke just said he was on the walkabout, yet he was restricted to a wheelchair. We have no indication that his past history that lead to his broken back had anything to do with the Island, which means that it's unlikely this changed because the Island sunk.

Hurley is interesting here. His fate is closely tied to the Island, and something changed there. We'll have to wait for the details, but my initial guess is this: The Numbers are parameters in an equation that predicts the end of the world (that wasn't my guess. This is established canon already). This is what makes them "cursed". In the new reality, the end of the world might have been changed, thus invalidating the Numbers' negative presence. This could be an extremely important factor to the end of the season.

The coffin is indeed gone, and this is the biggest change between the two realities. The implications are unclear. Did Christian Shepard's involvement with the Island begin long before Flight 815? Was this what lead to his drinking problem? I guess we'll know soon enough. smile

Spoiler for Hiden:
You make some very good points. I can't remember if the airline lost the body or the coffin. If it was just the body, that would explain why the body was missing after the crash. Your Hurley theory sounds good, too.

Damn you for making me re-think my speculations!  icon_lol
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« Reply #103 on: February 04, 2010, 07:32:09 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
Just to confirm something a friend mentioned, the bomb goes off in 1977 - does this mean Widmore and/or the Others on the island at that time (including Finola) all would have died?  In which case both Daniel and Penny would never have existed?

Also I haven't re-watched yet, but I did read in an interview that there are clues as to when in the timeline the island actually sank in the underwater pan.  So I guess it's plausible that the bomb going off doesn't sink it, as some of you have already discussed.

I don't have any specific theories right now, but I do think Jack is at the heart of everything, as he seems to be the only one who is suspicious of things in LAX and also is the one who tells Locke that "nothing's irreversible" - loved that as a kind of throwaway (but not really) line.
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« Reply #104 on: February 04, 2010, 07:37:00 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 04, 2010, 07:32:09 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
Just to confirm something a friend mentioned, the bomb goes off in 1977 - does this mean Widmore and/or the Others on the island at that time (including Finola) all would have died?  In which case both Daniel and Penny would never have existed?

Spoiler for Hiden:
Very likely. This would have larger ramifications too. When Desmond got kicked out of the monastery he was in, for example, he immediately met Penny, an event that gave him new purpose in life. What would happen if Penny never showed up that day? Would Desmond even want to go on living?
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« Reply #105 on: February 04, 2010, 09:18:54 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 04, 2010, 07:32:09 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
Just to confirm something a friend mentioned, the bomb goes off in 1977 - does this mean Widmore and/or the Others on the island at that time (including Finola) all would have died?  In which case both Daniel and Penny would never have existed?

Also I haven't re-watched yet, but I did read in an interview that there are clues as to when in the timeline the island actually sank in the underwater pan.  So I guess it's plausible that the bomb going off doesn't sink it, as some of you have already discussed.

I don't have any specific theories right now, but I do think Jack is at the heart of everything, as he seems to be the only one who is suspicious of things in LAX and also is the one who tells Locke that "nothing's irreversible" - loved that as a kind of throwaway (but not really) line.

Spoiler for Hiden:
The one clue I noticed for sure is that the shark still has the Darhma logo on his tail, but he could have existed before the bomb, I think.

I didn't think twice about that line from Jack.  Cool!
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« Reply #106 on: February 05, 2010, 05:18:35 AM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
If Juliet was able to see both realities just before she died, then Sayid will be the character who links them -- he died and lived to tell about it. Assuming, of course, that he's really still Sayid.
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« Reply #107 on: February 05, 2010, 03:43:56 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 04, 2010, 07:32:09 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I don't have any specific theories right now, but I do think Jack is at the heart of everything, as he seems to be the only one who is suspicious of things in LAX and also is the one who tells Locke that "nothing's irreversible" - loved that as a kind of throwaway (but not really) line.

Jack and Neo...
Spoiler for Hiden:
I was definitely getting a Neo vibe watching alt-Jack struggle with his version of the matrix.  I think he will start seeing lines of code soon, so to speak, and when that happens...convergence is right around the corner.
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« Reply #108 on: February 05, 2010, 08:06:21 PM »

Going back to the Maggie Grace question about why she wasn't on the episode, I've heard that a few of the actors that have been killed off (Libby) were asked to come back but refused.  The creators said that some actors hold a grudge when their characters are killed off and just won't agree to come back for a guest shot here and there, I haven't heard if this was the case with Shannon or not. 
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« Reply #109 on: February 05, 2010, 09:26:45 PM »

Quote from: Rich on February 05, 2010, 08:06:21 PM

Going back to the Maggie Grace question about why she wasn't on the episode, I've heard that a few of the actors that have been killed off (Libby) were asked to come back but refused.  The creators said that some actors hold a grudge when their characters are killed off and just won't agree to come back for a guest shot here and there, I haven't heard if this was the case with Shannon or not. 

Libby is coming back (along with Michael as well).  I can see that happening with some of the actors.  Still, whatever the reason for the actor/actress not showing up, the writers have definitely integrated this into the plotline.  Damon Lindelof specifically mentions Shannon, Eko and Michelle Rodriguez (I think some others) as being people we specifically did *not* see on the plane for particular reasons, indicating that the Jughead explosion clearly has a "Butterfly Effect" on the entire reality/macroverse.
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« Reply #110 on: February 05, 2010, 09:31:00 PM »

Quote from: Rich on February 05, 2010, 08:06:21 PM

Going back to the Maggie Grace question about why she wasn't on the episode, I've heard that a few of the actors that have been killed off (Libby) were asked to come back but refused.  The creators said that some actors hold a grudge when their characters are killed off and just won't agree to come back for a guest shot here and there, I haven't heard if this was the case with Shannon or not. 

Maggie Grace had a scheduling conflict and didn't have time to appear, so they wrote her out of the season opener. I don't think she'll be back, but we'll see.

The only person who I've heard refused to reappear was the actress who played Rousseau, for reasons unknown. The guy who played Eko originally requested to be written out of the show, also for reasons unknown, which is why Eko was so suddenly killed (though that ended up being a really important scene and the first time we were shown that the smoke monster was able to take on human shapes).
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« Reply #111 on: February 05, 2010, 11:33:28 PM »

okay i just watched the two opening episodes(its Friday nights here in the UK),i also watched the recap episode before hand which was quite helpful as i couldn't remember a thing

Spoiler for Hiden:
in the recap episode it showed Jack and Rose on the plane as the plane began to shudder(from the past season),and it was Jack who said to Rose not to worry(happens all the time)..and the plane went down,however when it happened again in this alternate timeline thing,it was Rose who said not to worry to Jack(you can let go now)..and the plane made it safely...so some things are a little off 

Desmond however i can't explain at all...but that kind of stuff has been done in films alot where you have an adventure,can't remember it,and then the person near you or a person they meet straight after was part of that adventure,even if they can't remember it...as lame of a similarity it is,i immediately thought of Cocoon 2 with Steve Guttenberg noticing Courtney Cox at the end,even though they don't remember each other,LOL...i also thought of The Wizard of Oz,but Dorothy remembered her adventure,but everyone in the adventure was her uncle,auntie etc


anyway,it is good for it to be back,and i am happy slipping back into the comfortable role of the viewer confused and wanting  answers icon_biggrin
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« Reply #112 on: February 06, 2010, 09:47:58 PM »

I can imagine Rousseau not wanting to come back after being obliterated so unceremoniously; I thought that was a disservice to her the way she was eliminated, considering she was a character introduced in season 1 and seemed to be an important/integral part of the storyline.

- - -
Spoiler for Hiden:
The Jack/Rose thing is interesting, I thought I imagined the reversal but I guess not.  Maybe the AltJack is now not so much the "hero" or confident take charge guy we are used to.  Possibly in this reality he never saved his wife, or never got over his fears in surgery?

AltDesmond is definitely a more intriguing prospect.  If you think that Penny possibly never existed, his entire life would be completely different.  So it's possible he never met Jack on the steps that day.  And of course if that never happened, maybe that's what affected Jack's life (I forgot the ramifications of Desmond's pep talk to Jack), and thus influenced what I mentioned above as well.

Butterfly effect!!! - will drive you crazy thinking about it, but I love it!!!
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« Reply #113 on: February 06, 2010, 11:17:50 PM »

Do we really need to keep using spoilers now? The episodes are several days old already.

Quote from: rittchard on February 06, 2010, 09:47:58 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
The Jack/Rose thing is interesting, I thought I imagined the reversal but I guess not.  Maybe the AltJack is now not so much the "hero" or confident take charge guy we are used to.  Possibly in this reality he never saved his wife, or never got over his fears in surgery?

Spoiler for Hiden:
Jack seemed plenty confident to me. His line about "nothing is irreversible" shows that pretty clearly. From what we saw in these two episodes, there doesn't appear to be anything different about Jack.
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« Reply #114 on: February 06, 2010, 11:28:22 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 06, 2010, 09:47:58 PM

I can imagine Rousseau not wanting to come back after being obliterated so unceremoniously; I thought that was a disservice to her the way she was eliminated, considering she was a character introduced in season 1 and seemed to be an important/integral part of the storyline.

Maybe she just didn't want to make the journey from Minbar for a cameo part. 25 light years is a long way.

They did end her story arc pretty unceremoniously, didn't they? I'm glad they wrote her out -- having an ex-wife running around the island unduly humanized Ben's character, and weakened it. Once the Alex angle was wrapped up there was not much left for Rousseau to do. Still, they might have given her a grander exit.
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« Reply #115 on: February 07, 2010, 12:10:58 AM »

I hated her exit. But I read she just didn't want to come to Hawaii to shoot more stuff. I miss B5 frown

Anyways since I still haven't caught up on season 5 yet I just want to say John Locke best be there at the end. Thats my favorite character..well along with Jack, Sayeed, Kate, Sawyer and the rest smile I even like the quantum physic  guy .
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« Reply #116 on: February 07, 2010, 12:41:10 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on February 06, 2010, 11:28:22 PM

They did end her story arc pretty unceremoniously, didn't they? I'm glad they wrote her out -- having an ex-wife running around the island unduly humanized Ben's character, and weakened it. Once the Alex angle was wrapped up there was not much left for Rousseau to do. Still, they might have given her a grander exit.

Not to be picky, but she really wasn't his ex-wife.  He stole her baby (and raised her as his own), and chose to not kill her when he had the chance, that's about the closest they were lol. 

- - -

Spoiler for Hiden:
As for AltJack, it's hard to tell what's up with him.  He kept having odd looks like he knew something wasn't quite right, but maybe that was my interpretation of Matthew Fox's acting.  He had that weird mark on his neck, was it a tattoo or blood?  He was still drinking but it's hard to tell if he was alcoholic or not.  He still saves Charlie in "hero" mode so that's consistent, as was his demanding of a pen to remind us of the original premiere heroics.  His "nothing's irreversible" seems to imply he's a "man of faith" in this reality?  Or just that he has already worked miracles in the past.
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« Reply #117 on: February 07, 2010, 03:14:23 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on February 06, 2010, 11:17:50 PM

Do we really need to keep using spoilers now? The episodes are several days old already.

well,come about Tuesday i avoid this thread until i have seen the latest episode,which runs on Friday,then i come on here and read what everyone has been saying

so its up to you guys if you still want to keep using the spoilers,i for one am fine without them,if they are getting annoyimg...but maybe change the title of the thread so that people know there are spoilers inside.
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« Reply #118 on: February 07, 2010, 08:22:21 AM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on February 07, 2010, 03:14:23 AM

Quote from: TiLT on February 06, 2010, 11:17:50 PM

Do we really need to keep using spoilers now? The episodes are several days old already.

well,come about Tuesday i avoid this thread until i have seen the latest episode,which runs on Friday,then i come on here and read what everyone has been saying

so its up to you guys if you still want to keep using the spoilers,i for one am fine without them,if they are getting annoyimg...but maybe change the title of the thread so that people know there are spoilers inside.

I don't see why we should ever need Spoiler tags in this thread. If you haven't seen that week's episode then don't come into the thread.
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« Reply #119 on: February 07, 2010, 08:55:16 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on February 07, 2010, 08:22:21 AM

Quote from: metallicorphan on February 07, 2010, 03:14:23 AM

Quote from: TiLT on February 06, 2010, 11:17:50 PM

Do we really need to keep using spoilers now? The episodes are several days old already.

well,come about Tuesday i avoid this thread until i have seen the latest episode,which runs on Friday,then i come on here and read what everyone has been saying

so its up to you guys if you still want to keep using the spoilers,i for one am fine without them,if they are getting annoyimg...but maybe change the title of the thread so that people know there are spoilers inside.

I don't see why we should ever need Spoiler tags in this thread. If you haven't seen that week's episode then don't come into the thread.

Yeah, I think we should do this. It's the same policy as Lostpedia. If you've not caught the latest episode yet, you just shouldn't visit until you do.
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