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Author Topic: LOST - 11/10/04  (Read 3245 times)
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whiteboyskim
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« on: November 11, 2004, 02:13:15 AM »

Title: CONFIDENCE MAN

Okay then, who saw the twists in that one coming? I figured Sawyer was the result of a con gone wrong, but the way that one ended where he just walked out knocked me out. What didn't surprise me was who wrote the letter, but what DID get me was how well Charlie and Pregnant Chick are getting along. But I also started thinking: Which of the major characters won't make it to next season?

Also, the two guys who popped in last week will have speaking parts in the future and that's cool, but how about Sayeed? Did he kick ass or what? I'm really digging Sayeed, and him torturing the hell out of Sawyer was really nice. Then he started bleeding and I lost my appetite while the wife and I were eating, but what are you gonna do? smile

But the big one comes next week.... biggrin
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2004, 03:18:35 AM »

I was surprised that sawyer let Jack just punch him twice. If I was Sawyer Id want to use my axe to kill Sayid when I was well.
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2004, 03:21:18 AM »

Sawyer feels such guilt from everything he's become and what he almost did that he just wanted to be killed so he wouldn't have to deal with it anymore. Which leads me to believe he's being either set up for redemption and heroic status should they go so far as to kill Jack, or he'll go completely the other way and spiral into complete villainy.
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2004, 04:01:07 AM »

Based on the previews for next week, whoever called the french girl being the one who knocked Sayeed out looks to be correct.  Looks likes there's some type of lab facility as well, complete with meds of some type based on the injection he was about to receive.
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2004, 04:09:39 AM »

Very impressive episode.  Really am loving it, so how much longer before the korean woman lets it out to her husband that she speaks english.
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2004, 04:16:42 AM »

Man, if this starts to turn into "Far Cry" and the French chick is some mad scientist, then this may wind up being pretty cool. biggrin
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2004, 04:21:14 AM »

I think those scenes you are referring to about the meds and the stuff is Sayid's flashback to his Iraq war days. They show the main character's history and next week seems to be Sayid's.

Im just wondering why Locke was pushing Sayid against Sawyer like he was. Surprised me.

And come on...really..who would miss Shannon if she died a horrible death but her lame brother?
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2004, 04:36:35 AM »

Maybe I'm just not as fanatical as I was when Angel was on, but I have a hard time doing a highlight reel of each episode. The conversation between Hurley and Charlie was great. "I've dropped a size." I liked the peanut butter part. Maybe Sayeed going on walk-about is his way of getting past his personal ghosts. I'm happy that next week will focus on him though as he's just too cool. smile
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2004, 06:56:51 AM »

If it wasn't the french girl that dropped Sayeed then my vote is on Locke.  He seemed pretty quick to plant the suspicions on Sawyer here particularly the "slow fuse" bit which seemed a bit forced.
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2004, 09:14:02 AM »

Eh, I thought this was one of the weaker episodes. The potential was great, the execution was lacking.

spoilers:

My main beefs: Who would believe Sawyer when he said he didn't have the meds? I'd have tortured him till I was satisfied that he didn't have them.  Which brings me to my next point- once you torture someone, you CANNOT let them go free when they have easy access to you for revenge. Once they went the torture route, they HAD to kill him, if only out of self preservation. They're stuck on that island and they have to sleep sometime, Sawyer can pounce on them when they're vulnerable. Also Sawyer has f'd with them from the beginning, this time by making them waste time and effort while a girl was DYING for all Sawyer knew, I don't buy the mercy they show him. The doc even saves his life for crying out loud!  So Sayid stabs him, then runs for the doc's kit so they can save him?!?! Okay, whatever.

Minor beef: Kate's outfit this episode did her no favors, especially the pants.  They can do better than that,  I expect her to be at maximum hotness at all times.
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2004, 01:07:05 PM »

Mrs. Gratch and I watched Lost for the first time last night.  Even coming in mid-show, I must admit I'm very impressed.  It had me glued to the set for the entire episode, and I'm even considering watching it next week.  That's pretty huge for me, as I have never in my life watched a TV drama regularly.  If it can actually get me hooked, it's gotta be a pretty good show.
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2004, 03:21:23 PM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"
Eh, I thought this was one of the weaker episodes. The potential was great, the execution was lacking.

spoilers:

My main beefs: Who would believe Sawyer when he said he didn't have the meds? I'd have tortured him till I was satisfied that he didn't have them.  Which brings me to my next point- once you torture someone, you CANNOT let them go free when they have easy access to you for revenge. Once they went the torture route, they HAD to kill him, if only out of self preservation. They're stuck on that island and they have to sleep sometime, Sawyer can pounce on them when they're vulnerable. Also Sawyer has f'd with them from the beginning, this time by making them waste time and effort while a girl was DYING for all Sawyer knew, I don't buy the mercy they show him. The doc even saves his life for crying out loud!  So Sayid stabs him, then runs for the doc's kit so they can save him?!?! Okay, whatever.



Agreed.  Jack needs some balls.  "Okay, Sayeed, torture him, oh but don't hurt him."  Come on!!  

Sawyer is a thorn that needs to be removed.  I'm totally against pack mentality, but Sawyer is an obvious rabid dog.  Sayeed of all people should have known this and finished the job.
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2004, 03:41:35 PM »

I think the torture was a little over the top.
Think it showed alot about Sawyer that should have changed people's minds about him. I know it changed mine.

Don't know how I feel about Sayid. I thought it was admirable that he walked away at the end, but we will see what happens when he turns the corner and finds a nudist resort, will he come back for the others ?  biggrin

I liked the story between hot preg chick and Charlie....and thought that the Korean wife was going to give away her secret when she helped the selfish blond. Wonder if her tune will change?

Regardless of what is "on" the island, I am really enjoying the character stories and backgrounds, it adds depth to the show.
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2004, 03:55:25 PM »

How long before the Korean and Michael make sweet sweet sweaty love?
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2004, 05:14:02 PM »

Quote from: "Easily Satisfied"
I think the torture was a little over the top.
Think it showed alot about Sawyer that should have changed people's minds about him. I know it changed mine.

Don't know how I feel about Sayid. I thought it was admirable that he walked away at the end, but we will see what happens when he turns the corner and finds a nudist resort, will he come back for the others ?  biggrin



ES,

He was leaving so Sawyer wouldn't slash his throat in the middle of the night.  However much I think Sayeed/Sayid is honorable in the warrior's sense, I don't think his action dictates a noble attitude toward his fellow islanders.

Now the nudist resort.  We ALL know that he'd only come back for the prego, hot-con, and the beautiful asian lady  biggrin
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2004, 05:39:06 PM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"
My main beefs: Who would believe Sawyer when he said he didn't have the meds? I'd have tortured him till I was satisfied that he didn't have them. Which brings me to my next point- once you torture someone, you CANNOT let them go free when they have easy access to you for revenge. Once they went the torture route, they HAD to kill him, if only out of self preservation. They're stuck on that island and they have to sleep sometime, Sawyer can pounce on them when they're vulnerable. Also Sawyer has f'd with them from the beginning, this time by making them waste time and effort while a girl was DYING for all Sawyer knew, I don't buy the mercy they show him. The doc even saves his life for crying out loud! So Sayid stabs him, then runs for the doc's kit so they can save him?!?! Okay, whatever.


You're acting like the decision to murder someone comes lightly.  Remember they've been on the island less than two weeks- this episode certain shows some primal instincts coming to the fore but I think there is a pretty big difference between pushing Sawyer to find the meds and killing him.  You're absolutely right that Sawyer is a threat now but I don't think it would be an easy decision for Jack (and to a less extend Sayid) to kill him.  They made the decision to torture Sawyer on anger fueled impulse and now they have to live with the consequences of that act.  

I thought Jack's role was very well handled.  He was letting his instincts and anger at Sawyer get the better of him, particularly with the girl's life on the line.  But when Sayid actually puts the screws to Sawyer it becomes pretty clear that Jack hadn't really thought through all of the implications of his act.  As to saving Sawyer's life- I'm not a doctor but from those I've known and read about that Hypocratic oath thing is pretty strong and no matter how much Jack hates Sawyer I don't think he could have let him die.
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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2004, 06:20:02 PM »

I don't think Sawyer has it in him to be a killer, like Sayid was trained to be. Everyone assumes the worst about Sawyer, and maybe thats what draws me to him. Course it could be that he is one of the hottier pieces on the island (and maybe thats why you don't like him Draegun :lol: )... Plus that kiss w/ Kate.. woah.

I just think this guy got a bad wrap for wanting to be by himself. He is obviously dealing w/ some issues, as they all are, but to turn into someone you hated, is pretty tough. He doesn't like himself therefore, can't let anyone else like him.

As far as Sayid is concerned, I am sure he will be fine... catching the teasers, looks like he winds up w/ frenchie :wink:
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2004, 06:42:36 PM »

Poor Sawyer, he turns into the man he hates.  So now he wreaks that hate onto everyone else.

I'll agree the kiss was amazing until you realize that Kate tossed what little dignity she had into the ocean, and that Sawyer truly is a slimeball for even asking for a kiss.  If he wanted to profit, fine.  Ask for somthing mutually valuable that can be redeemed later on.

Kate should have spit in his face when he asked for the kiss the second time, and had Sayid come back in and take his eyes out.

And as for he being attractive.  I thought women looked for more than mere good looks in men.  I recall hearing that over and over and over and over from someone . . . .
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2004, 06:43:29 PM »

I missed the first few minutes.  Did they ever tell how Sayid got knocked out?  Who did it?
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2004, 06:49:43 PM »

They don't know who did it yet.  There were some suspicions, and Locke put a lot of suspicion on Sawyer which makes me think that Locke did it if it doesn't turn out to be French girl.
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2004, 07:27:55 PM »

Quote from: "draegun"
And as for he being attractive.  I thought women looked for more than mere good looks in men.  I recall hearing that over and over and over and over from someone . . . .


Normally that's women trying to be above animal magnetism all the while silently drooling over a hunk of man-flesh. It goes both ways on this. biggrin
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2004, 07:53:49 PM »

Quote from: "Roguetad"
Based on the previews for next week, whoever called the french girl being the one who knocked Sayeed out looks to be correct.  Looks likes there's some type of lab facility as well, complete with meds of some type based on the injection he was about to receive.


That was me.  I rule.

Although, I am a little bit thrown off by Locke's behavior.  And also the fact that if it was the French chic, why didn't she drug him when she clocked him over the head?

No one knows what Locke gained on the island, and he definately has an interest in staying there.
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draegun
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2004, 07:59:14 PM »

Quote

Although, I am a little bit thrown off by Locke's behavior.  And also the fact that if it was the French chic, why didn't she drug him when she clocked him over the head?

No one knows what Locke gained on the island, and he definately has an interest in staying there.


I thought he gained the ability to walk?
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2004, 08:02:28 PM »

Quote from: "draegun"
Quote

Although, I am a little bit thrown off by Locke's behavior.  And also the fact that if it was the French chic, why didn't she drug him when she clocked him over the head?

No one knows what Locke gained on the island, and he definately has an interest in staying there.


I thought he gained the ability to walk?


Yup, and live out his dream of being in the wild.
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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2004, 08:04:00 PM »

Yeah, but what does Locke care if they get rescued?

He can simply say,  "No thanks.  I'll stay."  Can't he?


LD
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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2004, 08:07:11 PM »

Quote from: "RunningMn9"
Quote from: "Roguetad"
Based on the previews for next week, whoever called the french girl being the one who knocked Sayeed out looks to be correct.  Looks likes there's some type of lab facility as well, complete with meds of some type based on the injection he was about to receive.


That was me.  I rule.



no it wasn't biggrin
http://www.consolegold.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26858#26858

maybe you did on the "other" forum, but he's referring to last week's thread on this forum smile
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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2004, 11:47:35 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"


You're acting like the decision to murder someone comes lightly.  

I thought Jack's role was very well handled.  He was letting his instincts and anger at Sawyer get the better of him, particularly with the girl's life on the line.  But when Sayid actually puts the screws to Sawyer it becomes pretty clear that Jack hadn't really thought through all of the implications of his act.  As to saving Sawyer's life- I'm not a doctor but from those I've known and read about that Hypocratic oath thing is pretty strong and no matter how much Jack hates Sawyer I don't think he could have let him die.


You're forgetting about that guy who had the hunk of shrapnel in his chest. Remember how that all went down, with Sawyer coldbloodedly shooting him in a botched attempt at killing him, then Jack mysteriously going in the tent and somehow the guy is dead very quickly?  They had crossed that line way back then. Especially Sawyer, after that there can be NO doubt in those people's minds that Sawyer wouldn't hesitate to kill any one of them if it he thought it was necessary.

I disagree that it was clear that Jack hadn't thought through the implications. What I saw was Jack feeling glad that he wasn't the one doing the actual torturing, that's all. The torture didn't actually stop until AFTER Sawyer agreed to talk, that proves the point, I think.

Plus you are forgetting that Sayid, Jack, and Sawyer are all people who know darn well that they aren't getting rescued anytime soon, maybe not ever.  They of all people know they HAVE to deal with Sawyer.
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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2004, 12:08:13 AM »

That's a pretty big leap to go from talking tough to Sawyer to making the decision to methodically torture him.  Sawyer is a glutton for punishment, and it's clear that his moral struggle has created the feeling that he deserves to be punished and/or hated.  His comfort zone right now is to be hated, mistrusted, and as George said on Seinfeld, "I'm trying to be the bad seed, the chicks love it!"  

"No wait, I'm the bad seed!  I'm the bad seed!"
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« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2004, 12:30:03 AM »

The main reason that I don't see it as such a big leap(them deciding to torture Sawyer) is because a life was at stake.  

This wasn't a case of Sawyer goofing around and wanting to keep someone's personal possessions,  not even I would torture someone over something lame like that. This was a case of  a person seeing the girl practically sufforcating and slowly dying, as he stands by with the meds that can save her and those meds belong to her start with!

Couple this with Sawyer's history of being an ass, Sayid being attacked(possibly by the racist Sawyer), the brother being beaten up definitely by Sawyer, and Sawyer is prime torture bait.  Jack even told Kate that SAWYER wanted it this way, showing that he is well aware of all the implications but Sawyer has forced his hand.

By the way, that was one other beef I had with this episode- that the brother didn't just ask Sawyer for his other stuff(like meds) before trashing his stash, like anyone would do in real life.  I bet the writers didn't go that route because all it would have taken was a "I found the book, but I don't have any of your other crap" response from Sawyer and this whole episode would have been rendered moot.
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« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2004, 02:46:41 AM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"

By the way, that was one other beef I had with this episode- that the brother didn't just ask Sawyer for his other stuff(like meds) before trashing his stash, like anyone would do in real life.  I bet the writers didn't go that route because all it would have taken was a "I found the book, but I don't have any of your other crap" response from Sawyer and this whole episode would have been rendered moot.

Any episode with the hot preggo Aussie chick is worth watching over and over and over....
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2004, 03:49:57 AM »

It must break your heart now that she is going to the caves. No more shots of her lounging on the beach, basking in the sun.
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« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2004, 07:24:07 AM »

Hmmmm after having a day or so to think it over im beginning to think Locke pushing Sayeed into a confrontation with  Sawyer was something he did to help them. It will bring Sawyer out of his self loathing doldrums and help Sayeed confront his past and come to terms with something from it. As for Jack he got to let a little devil out for a minute.
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« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2004, 02:17:08 PM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"
You're forgetting about that guy who had the hunk of shrapnel in his chest. Remember how that all went down, with Sawyer coldbloodedly shooting him in a botched attempt at killing him, then Jack mysteriously going in the tent and somehow the guy is dead very quickly? They had crossed that line way back then. Especially Sawyer, after that there can be NO doubt in those people's minds that Sawyer wouldn't hesitate to kill any one of them if it he thought it was necessary.


Not forgetting that at all.  The shrapnel thing was a different ethical dilemma.  The marshal was going to die- the issue that Jack had to deal with was whether to go ahead and kill him so that he didn't suffer for a long time.  IIRC, the marshal even requested that he be killed.  The marshal's fate was never in question.  

Sawyer shot the marshal seemingly in an attempt to put him out of his misery-  it could be looked at as a sympathetic action though he did clearly botch it.  Sawyer is a complete prick no doubt but I'm not sure that he's necessarily evil or completely malicious.  



Quote
I disagree that it was clear that Jack hadn't thought through the implications. What I saw was Jack feeling glad that he wasn't the one doing the actual torturing, that's all. The torture didn't actually stop until AFTER Sawyer agreed to talk, that proves the point, I think.


Totallly not what I read on Jack's face.  I think when Sayid told him that he would have him talking in less than 10 minutes Jack believed him and ended up being completely blindsided that Sawyer would prove so resistant.  The expression on Jack's face told me that what he was doing was making him physically ill.  I think the only reason he didn't call Sayid off is that, as you said, the girl's life was on the line.
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« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2004, 07:52:50 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
Hmmmm after having a day or so to think it over im beginning to think Locke pushing Sayeed into a confrontation with  Sawyer was something he did to help them. It will bring Sawyer out of his self loathing doldrums and help Sayeed confront his past and come to terms with something from it. As for Jack he got to let a little devil out for a minute.


Interesting interpretation.  I like it.
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2004, 11:40:21 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Totallly not what I read on Jack's face.  I think when Sayid told him that he would have him talking in less than 10 minutes Jack believed him and ended up being completely blindsided that Sawyer would prove so resistant.  The expression on Jack's face told me that what he was doing was making him physically ill.  I think the only reason he didn't call Sayid off is that, as you said, the girl's life was on the line.


Sawyer hardly proved resistant. Sayid didn't spend anywhere near 10 minutes on him, Sayid only poked at him a couple of times. Even then, Sawyer did wind up talking.

I agree that Jack was green around the gills, but I didn't read that as surprise at what was happening, or an awakening to the nature of what he was doing. It was more of a 'I'm not used to this kinda thing' reaction.  Since he's a civilian and a healer at that, I can totally understand that.  

Remember, he and Sayid were ready to go back to work on Sawyer after allowing him to see Kate(if he didn't talk), but Kate told them it wasn't necessary by saying that he didn't really have the goods after all.
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2004, 06:33:52 PM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"
It must break your heart now that she is going to the caves. No more shots of her lounging on the beach, basking in the sun.


Aren't they supposed to be killing some people off soon?  I think that the Aussie might be the one to go during childbirth.  Then Charlie will take care of the baby.  Not the best idea, but it would seem to fit.  I am curious when the korean guy is going to lay the smack down on Lynk (the guy from the matrix, don't know his name).  Because that little side-plot is definitley headed for trouble...
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2004, 06:53:09 PM »

I came away feeling disappointed by this episode.  I hope the next one is much better.  Anyway, three things bothered me this week:

1) I really don't trust Sawyer, nor do I necessarily believe the story.  On the one hand I assume that the flashbacks are telling the truth, but on the other hand it all seems like a really twisted confidence scam to "reveal" to Kate that he was the victim to begin with.  

2) I would have felt a lot better if they had shown them digging through Sawyer's stash rather than just taking what he told Kate as the truth.

3) I'm suprised no one is talking about the Kate/Sawyer kiss.  There was more there than a forced smooch on her part.  One can only assume that at some level she is attracted to Sawyer.
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« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2004, 02:02:06 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"

3) I'm suprised no one is talking about the Kate/Sawyer kiss.  There was more there than a forced smooch on her part.  One can only assume that at some level she is attracted to Sawyer.


I'm intentionally ignoring that, she's MINE dammit!
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