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Author Topic: LOST - 02/09/05 HOLY CRAP!!!  (Read 3517 times)
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whiteboyskim
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« on: February 10, 2005, 02:10:49 AM »

And it finally clicks... LOST is about the redemption or damnation of the characters. It struck me before as a show where the characters were literally lost souls, but after tonight the show is no longer just a collection of lost souls. These are people who will find either redemption or damnation for their lives depending on what happens on this island. Whether that lends credence to the theory that everyone is really dead and the island is purgatory or not is open to interpretation.

I found the island story line to be about 9 times more fascinating than Charlie's continued back story, though the situational parallels were obvious from the get-go. The ending was also predictable, but damn if they're not afraid to get brutal on the show.

Highlights:

-"Dude, that was Scott."

-"Sorry for calling you Steve all the time, man."

-"You've been holding out on us, doc."

-The fact that they're down from 100 bullets to about 94 now. smile

-Ethan Vs. Jack - Round 2

-Boone's admirable guard duty

-Ethan strong-arming Charlie again

-the quickie reference to The Office

-Charlie's increasingly awkward copier "demonstration", proof that Dom is awesome at physical comedy
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2005, 02:20:16 AM »

Well Im getting kore confused and losing interest more each episode. I love the show but I missed the episode where clair gets taken then i missed something else, then this time I missed the first full 20 min then after that I only caught glimpses cause I was uhh..doing something else...so Im getting lost myself. I dont know what happened last time that guy whatever his name was got into it with the doc...dont know why he wanted claire...and I cant figure out why she is prenant not pregnant then pregnant again...or did I miss something else.

Crap im losing what the hell is going on. And now that they did that to that guy who i cant think of whos gonna be the bad guy..argh.  :twisted:
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2005, 02:31:54 AM »

Worst episode of Lost yet. Funny how opinions change. I honestly have little desire to even watch the show anymore. If I had a gun I would've shot the tv the moment they broke tension to insert the copier comedy scene. Horrible hack job editing. Honestly, drop the flashbacks. Everything was treading water, nothing really changed. I don't care if they string us along without answers, but the are NOT doing it well.

Same with Alias. Honestly, just watching these actors(Alias) go through the motions and tread water infuriates me.

Then Arrested Development is basically canceled in favor of American friggin Dad.

I am so pissed off at television right now.
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ElijahPrice
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2005, 02:42:32 AM »

***SPOILERS***

I was not impressed by this episode either.  Back story was ridiculously boring and just stupid.  Its like they invented some scenario that would allow Charlie to be able to shoot Ethan and not look like a looney.

The island story is easily taking over for any of the recent flashbacks and I hope that they will soon really kick that aspect into gear.  Sayed (sp?) and Shannon make me sick.  She is way too hot for that guy.

However, it is nice to see some people die.  Its important.  I think LOST should watcha  few episodes of 24 and then make the rest of the series.  Jack ain't no Bauer.  I have a new favorite show, sorry LOST.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2005, 02:43:32 AM »

Obviously I love it, but here's the caveat: I loved Alias Season 1 like nothing else and praised it to the high heavens. I won't even watch it now. I saw the promos tonight and the wife beat me to it: "VAMPIRES?!?!? WHAT THE HELL?!?!" Exactly. Just jumping the shark wouldn't have been good enough for Alias, oh no. They had to jump an ocean full of them.

While it's obvious they took out Ethan to keep the tension going, I have faith in the next few episodes and here's why: Based on the back stories that are coming up, Hurley in particular, I think it's possible they might delve deeper into the island and really crank the story up. On the other hand, if they keep jacking around avoiding the issue and have a crap cliffhanger of a season finale, then my faith will definitely take a hit. I'm just sayin' the blinders aren't completely on regarding LOST. slywink
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2005, 04:31:51 AM »

Ok here`s the deal. My wife likes the show and I watch it will her from time to time. She fills in the gaps so I know what`s going on. My interest has grown in this show. But...I finally put my finger on what I don`t like about it. They really don`t ever give you any clues about what`s going on. Most shows like this leave alot of questions to be answered but they give you hints, even if they are false. Lost doesn`t really throw any bones. They don`t ever attemp to explain anything so far(IMO). For me, there really isn`t any incentive to watch because I`ll know I`ll be just as clueless at the end of this episode as last. That sums it up for me :wink: .
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2005, 06:11:19 AM »

wow, i thought this was one of the better ones.  That means next week will be slow.  This show has terrible pacing, and the reruns doesn't help it either.

This show unlike last nights 24, is unpredictable.  I had no idea Charlie was going go postal on the guy.
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2005, 06:37:27 AM »

Spoilers .... (though I think any one of our Lost threads should automatically be considered spoiler-filled)...





Liked the ep on the whole, but had two complaints. First, I think this was the first time where I really didn't dig the flashback portion. I can't put my finger on it, but I think it may have been because I didn't "buy" it as being important to the present situation. Didn't really think it was relevant, though the writer would have you believe it was. Didn't see how Charlie really needed to make amends for that. Didn't buy that he actually grew to care about the girl. But after this show, and after whiteboy's comment, I'm starting to see that what happened before the island is just as important as, if not more than, what's going on on the island. That means that anyone who doesn't like the dual plots in each ep is going to have a problem with the show on the whole.

Second, I was really pissed off that Charlie killed off Ethan, because it seems convenient, not believable. I would have found it more reasonable if Charlie shit-kicked the guy, beat him to a pulp, but not kill him. How Charlie could waste the potential of interrogating Ethan is beyond me. Then to have Charlie say - because Ethan had to be killed off - that he though Ethan wouldn't have said a thing just reeks of reaching a necessary plot point. I'd rather have had Ethan killed in a struggle, and have Charlie pissed off that he didn't get a chance to "talk" to Ethan. I do not think Charlie would have killed Ethan, and I did not like the ending. Not exactly a first strike or anything, but probably the first time where the island setup is conflicting with the natural way things would unfold, as far as I would see. And if Ethan really needed to die, I wish it had been done in another fashion. But that’s me.
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2005, 07:01:01 AM »

Charlie must die.  He is an annoying character.  Besides Claire is mine.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2005, 07:03:58 AM »

This show jumped the shark for me tonight. I'm done with it.

First, Ethan threatened EVERYONE, so I really got pissed off seeing them still play their 'only us cool people will know what's going on, everyone else won't know' game. LAME!  Maybe, just maybe, before someone could make the argument that the majority of the survivors have no need to know that the pilot says help isn't coming.

But when someone threatens everyone's life, AND has already kicked the shit out of a couple of people AND kidnapped two full grown adults(proving he's a real threat)- you IMMEDIATELY tell everyone, anything else is just being stupid for stupid's sake. Especially you tell Claire, she's the target after all.

Then the gun thing. Oh yeah, that stupid bags of trash idea beats guns every time.  :roll:

Last but not least, we have the convenient loss of (selective) memory of a character...again. Twice in the same season! And that's just so far, who knows how many more times they are going to do it.  

Repetition, which brings us to the flashbacks. It sucks enough that some characters get more flashback episodes when some GOOD characters(Hurley) haven't even got one, but damn it, why make the extra flashbacks redundant too? Seriously, we didn't learn anything about Charlie we didn't already know, or could guess for ourselves. If that 'you'll never take care of anyone' was supposed to be some kind of punchline to explain him shooting Ethan, that was the worst writing I've seen on TV this year. (and that's counting the one episode of Seventh Heaven I saw).

Ethan kicks so much ass but somehow a very pregnant young woman escapes from him and outruns him in a jungle?  Okay, so maybe there could be some interesting twist to this, something that would explain it, but this is Lost so we the audience aren't told crap, not even a hint, about how she did it. And judging by the way this season has gone, they won't even mention this plot point again for a good four or five episodes, if ever.

And the hobbit shoots their prisoner, the guy who could explain why he was hung, why Claire was such a target...there's possibly others out there right? So that info would be of extreme importance to him and Claire, if not everyone else. And what's his retort?  He wouldn't have talked anyways, uh Hello! Ever heard of torture?  If someone tried to hang me and I survived to take him prisoner, I'd get him to tell me anything I want to know.

Last but not least, who the f*ck is Jack to decide when or IF they get weapons to defend themselves(against the bear that almost ate Walt for one). It boggles my mind that Michael at least didn't kick Jack's ass for hiding those guns.

Ah....I feel so much better now.   Cool
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2005, 12:59:15 PM »

[At the risk of being "Captain Obvious" here...]

I don't know if some of you are missing the main premise of this show or not, but don't you understand....?   Charlie said it himself:

"Ethan had to be killed."

Period.  End of story.

Ethan was not on that island to offer these "great answers of what's going on" or whatever some of you think.  He was not there to be "interrogated" or to explain why he wanted Claire.  It had nothing to do with Claire, nothing to do with the baby.

It had to do with Charlie... period.  

You are missing what WhiteboySkim said in the beginning of this thread.  

If Charlie had feelings for Kate, "Ethan" would have taken Kate.  If Charlie had feelings for Jack, "Ethan" would have taken Jack.  Why do you think Claire forgets everything?  Because it has nothing to do with Claire.  Claire's involvement was secondary, and she needed to be involved due to Charlies' feelings for her.

Charlie:  "Do you really think he would have told you anything?"

Answer:  No.  There is nothing to tell.

Ethan was on that island to help Charlie deal... period.

Why will noone but Sayed (probably) ever meet this French chick?  Why did the French chick force Sayed to relive his memories of the woman in the picture?  Because she was there to help Sayed deal... period.  

Why did noone see Jack's dad except for Jack?  Because he was there to help Jack deal... period.

Why did noone but Boone see Shannon die?  Because she "died" to help Boone deal... period.

Why was Jack able to bring Charlie back from death when it was obvious to Kate he was dead?  Because he HAD to come back if Jack didn't give up.... to help Jack deal... period.

So far, only Locke has any sort of clue whatsoever how this whole thing seems to work,  and even he doesn't fully get it.

The trick of the show is figuring out who/what is going on for specific characters, and what is going on for everyone.  It's obvious the island is not above using multiple people to get it's point across to the one individual it is trying to "teach".

In case it isn't obvious, the above is all my theory...
...but it makes more sense than anything else I've heard so far.    :wink:

Peace.

LD
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2005, 01:17:45 PM »

You know, if someone hung me from the end of a rope and I somehow managed to live... I wouldn't beat them, I wouldn't interrogate them, I would kill them, no questions asked.  Ethan killed/nearly killed charlie, and took away the one thing that charlie loved on the island.  I don't see charlies actions as being irrational.
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2005, 02:22:07 PM »

My cable messed up for about 5 seconds during the show and I think I missed something. Can anyone tell me how Charlie got a gun? Did it fall from Jack when he was fighting or something? I missed the beginning of that fight.
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2005, 02:28:05 PM »

Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
My cable messed up for about 5 seconds during the show and I think I missed something. Can anyone tell me how Charlie got a gun? Did it fall from Jack when he was fighting or something? I missed the beginning of that fight.


Yep, Jack dropped it.
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2005, 02:33:11 PM »

Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
My cable messed up for about 5 seconds during the show and I think I missed something. Can anyone tell me how Charlie got a gun? Did it fall from Jack when he was fighting or something? I missed the beginning of that fight.


Yeah that's exactly what happened.

Hmm.  Wasn't Duke UNC on at that time?  For Shame, Carolina "fan", for shame!
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2005, 02:33:43 PM »

Yea, Jack dropped it when he was fighting Ethan.

Great episode, great show.

I actually think LD's explanation sounds pretty darn good.  You snobs over-analyze everything.
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2005, 02:47:13 PM »

I have to agree with Gameoverman.  I like the show still, but it's getting kinda annoying to watch.  Certain things just don't make sense to me.

And the trailer for next week looks absolutely terrible.  "Oh no, the Kate/Sawyer/Jack triangle comes to a head".  I do not watch Lost for soap opera like romances.  I'm already dreading it.  Plus, I'm not sure if they realize it or not, but the writers are really making Kate out to be a tramp.  "I've never had a one night stand."  Please.
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ElijahPrice
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2005, 03:03:08 PM »

LockDown...I think you nailed it on the head.

That makes perfect sense and I guess with more thought I would have agreed, I just didn't think of it right away because Ethan was one of the first charaters to actually interact with multiple people on the island.  But dang, you are right.  Adds a little extra purpose ot the episode.

But do you think that Charllie actually new that.  He didn't seem to have the revelation that others had?
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2005, 03:30:50 PM »

Quote from: "Eightball"
Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
My cable messed up for about 5 seconds during the show and I think I missed something. Can anyone tell me how Charlie got a gun? Did it fall from Jack when he was fighting or something? I missed the beginning of that fight.


Yeah that's exactly what happened.

Hmm.  Wasn't Duke UNC on at that time?  For Shame, Carolina "fan", for shame!


The game started 5 minutes later.  :mrgreen: But don't get me started on that.... (or just check OO)  crybaby
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2005, 03:54:09 PM »

I thought it was a great Ep.  I agree with everything LD just said.  Furthermore i dont think ethan would have talked.  if he was or was not gonna talk there is only 1 person on the island that could decide that and it was charlie.  dont forget he spent 2 days with this jerk off before being hung from a tree by his freaking neck.  

He is the only person on the island that had any meaningful interaction with ethan besides clair who remembers nothing about it at all.    I also gotta say that charlie shooting the bastard made perfect sense to me.  im an antiviolence anti gun tree hugging hippy, but if you hang me from a freaking tree im thinking im gonna try damn hard to kill ya.  That goes double if you kidnapped my girlie girl in the process.

About the first guy to die, scott, was he the dude who had a stress induced rash?  the one that played golf with jack and the guys later in the same Ep?

Anyway i also thought killing ethan was brilliant as a plot device.  They did cool stuff here.  By killing ethan and scott they where able to substantialy raise the tension on the island and do it with out pissing of thier viewers.  No one cares about scott and most would love to see ethan die.  This is a good way to light a fire under the castaway's asses and get them to act like they are actualy in some mortal danger.  I Also think it was good to kill ethan because he was never ment to tell them anything.  Assume for a second that ethan was actualy one of the things/people tthat built the hatch in the ground, and the french woman is scared of.  That would mean ethan is a grunt, infact when examining the facts ethan acted like a grunt in almost all ways.  He would not have told them anything because i doubt he would have known it anyway.  no one gives grunts important info because they might get capptured and made to tell what they know.  Killing ethan brings a sence of reality to this shadow group / entity but at the same time keeps them just as mysterious as they ever where.


Lastly just as a reminder for those that are mad becuase ethan wes not questioned.  Remember sayeed?   He was a republican guard member whos job was interrogation.   He could not make sawyer talk, and could not make the woman in the flashback talk.  What makes you guys think he could have made ethan talk?  no i agree with charlie he would never have told them a thing.
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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2005, 04:27:20 PM »

EP -  I don't know if Charlie "knew" it.  From what I can gather, the only person to have a clue at all is Locke.

Locke to Boone:  "What did it make YOU see?"
Boone:  "I saw Shannon die."
Locke:  "How did it make you feel?"
Boone"  "Relieved!"

DING DING DING.   -  Boone has dealt... next person please.
- - - - -
Charlie had (has) a bunch of issues.  The island has spent a good deal of time on him.  His story however has now become intertwined with Claire's at least a bit.  It will be interesting to see if the island involves him when Claire has to truly face her issues with taking care of that baby of hers.  Rest assured, that is coming down the line in a big way.

To Charlie, Ethan "had to die".  But I don't think he had to die because Charlie is clued in.... I think he had to die for Charlie to come to terms with his past (and his potential future).

I'll take it a step further....

I think Ethan was simply a "tool" the island used to work it's magic on Charlie.  Outside of Charlie (and a little bit Jack and Claire), Ethan was meaningless.  Ethan waits until Charlie has definitive feelings for Claire before taking her.  He could have taken her anytime.  He doesn't take Claire any of the countless times she is own her own, he waits until Claire is with Charlie (just the two of them) to take her.  Later, Claire "escapes" Ethan?  Please!  Not gonna happen.  Rather, the island "released" her when Charlie was ready to deal.  
He dealt.  
Next!
- - - -

I can't say my views on the show are shared by many.  There are certainly potential holes in my theory of what is going on, but compared to some of the ludicrous ideas out there in internet-land, I'm sticking with it.

LD  :wink:
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2005, 05:11:04 PM »

I get the feeling when Lost returns next year that it will go to the single run format like 24 and Alias.  I am still enjoying the show but the momentum gets blown when they toss in the reruns.
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2005, 05:39:34 PM »

LD, your thoughts make a lot of sense, but I still don't think that Charlie would have offed the guy. At least, I don't yet. As I type, I remind myself that we have no idea what happened after Charlie was kidnapped up until he was hung. Maybe the moment reveals more about myself than the actual show - maybe I find it hard to believe that Charlie wouldn't just pummel Ethan into a bloody pulp instead of shoot him right off the bat, because I think that's what I'd do. (Weird situation to imagine yourself in though, I must admit).

I don't care if Ethan is a "grunt" of the island, that doesn't mean you can't try to get him to talk, then whack him when tea time is over.


By the way, did anyone else notice Doctor Jack wake Claire up through his persistence, just like he brought Charlie back to life?

Oh yeah, Boone sucks by the way. He's becoming more useless than Shannon - at least she doesn't pretend that she can get the job done.
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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2005, 05:40:51 PM »

Maybe the hobbit killed Ethan to keep Ethan from saying something damning about hobbit.  Hobbit must die. Hobbit will probably become the new Ethan.
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2005, 06:09:50 PM »

Quote from: "Lockdown"


To Charlie, Ethan "had to die".  But I don't think he had to die because Charlie is clued in.... I think he had to die for Charlie to come to terms with his past (and his potential future).



This i agree with whole heartedly.  What i ment is if you ignore this for a few and take it at face value, a person kidnapping another person for some group of bad people on the island, the events of last night still make sence.  i dont think charlie is clued into the island. i ment that he was clued in to ethan, being the only person who both spent any ammount of time with the guy and remembers it.  im saying Charlie would be the only person on the island with any experiance to help him determine if ethan would have said anything or not.
charlie has more first hand evidence to help him determine if ethan would talk or not.  The other guys know nothing about it first and and are basicly guessing.
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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2005, 07:37:01 PM »

Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
The game started 5 minutes later.  :mrgreen: But don't get me started on that.... (or just check OO)  crybaby


Ah don't worry about it, we'll get 'em for you on Saturday.
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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2005, 07:37:54 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
LD, your thoughts make a lot of sense, but I still don't think that Charlie would have offed the guy. At least, I don't yet.


D -

This is the part of the show I think many people found "weak".  The story behind Ethan getting offed.  And I can certainly understand why.  It wasn't the strongest story in the world.

However, this is the way I choose to see it:   Throughout the episode, and previous episodes, Charlie had made mention how important it is to him to have people believe he can "take care of them."  Remember when Claire was taken.  Charlie was absolutely devestated.  He mentioned numerous times (and again to Jack last night) that it was HIS fault she was taken.  It was his inability to take care of her that caused Claire's capture.  No matter what anyone said to him (Black Woman, Jack, Kate...), that is how he felt.  The only way he knew to absolutely ensure the "Ethan problem" would go away was to kill him.  And in turn, he could look at himself in the mirror and feel like he was able to take care of Claire, because he whacked Ethan.  Not Jack, not Locke, not Sayed... it was he, Charlie, who had dealt with Ethan, therefore taking care of Claire.  He had accomplished something he felt he had failed at at least 3 times in his life (taking care of his brother, taking care of his old girlfriend, taking care of Claire).  He is now over that hurdle.

Jack:  "Why'd you do it Charlie?"
Charlie: "Cause it was my fault she was taken."  (or whatever he said).

Weak?  Maybe.  Reaching a bit?  Maybe.  

But to me it makes sense.  So I'm good to go for the next episode.  :wink:

LD

(and as a PS - Could you even imagine having something "mystical" like this happen to you, that would FORCE you to deal with the things in your life that hold you back?   A scary but cool thought, no?)
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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2005, 08:06:11 PM »

MAbey they are trying to follow in the footsteps of David lynch.  If so then what they are doing is making a TV show that is total nonsense in the first viewing, but after substantial conversation and debate amoung friends as well as multiple viewsings it starts to make a sick type of sense.

[rant]REALSE TWIN PEEKS ON DVD DAMN IT[/rant]
Sorry dont know where that came from.....
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« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2005, 09:08:10 PM »

Those are some interesting theories about how the island is using people, like Ethan, to work on the survivors in some way. Maybe it's even true. The point still stands, however, that maybe it's aliens running the whole thing, maybe they're in purgatory, maybe....  

In other words, after 15 episodes none of us knows jackshit about what is really going on in this show- it's ALL speculation.  That just equals a huge waste of time to me. By now we should have had a decent idea(not all the answers, that's not what I'm saying) of what we are watching.  

For instance, alot of you are assuming that Ethan wouldn't have talked. That's fine from YOUR perspective as a viewer of this show, however a person stuck on that island(like Charlie) would have no reason to believe Ethan wouldn't talk. Until after they had a chance to interrogate him that is.  

I also remind you that Sawyer DID talk, albeit to Kate, but he did 'crack', he just didn't actually have the goods they were looking for. So their torture of him DID get results.  If I was in Charlie's position, before I'd kill Ethan I'd want to know how he wiped my memory AND Claire's memory at the very least. Also how he managed to kidnap both me AND Claire singlehandly AND drag us through the jungle AND hang me high up in a tree singlehandly. Charlie is still stuck on the island, so the answers to those questions are very pertinent to him.

As to Charlie's story specifically, I recall that Charlie could not tell them anything about his time with Ethan. Beyond a vague "they only wanted her", that is(in keeping with the tradition of all info being vague on this show).  For all we know, he doesn't even remember being hung up.  So how is he supposed to be so pissed off at Ethan, so worked up over the danger Ethan poses, if he doesn't even remember any of it?  It's very contrived.

As to the not taking care of anyone, they also covered that in Charlie's previous flashback episode. The one where he saw the moth and led Jack out of the collapsed cave.  

So what's the relevance of this episode?  Jack brought out the guns, and Charlie murdered someone(Ethan was not a threat nor attacking anyone at the time Charlie shot him).  Too bad it made more sense for Jack to bring out the guns after Walt got attacked by the bear, since that proved that they needed a better way to defend themselves than Locke's knives. But that's using logic, this show's characters don't need that.

I figure the writers must want Charlie's killing of Ethan to be a grey area because otherwise they could have done this in a more justified way.   But since they have not given me any reason to be interested in what's going on(I can't be interested if I don't know what's going on),  what impact Charlie's murder of Ethan has on the survivors is not something that I'll be around to find out.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2005, 09:50:18 PM »

I have realized why this show is not for me:  I object to the basic mentality of this show. Here's what I mean:

I understand that it is a creative decision by the show's producers to not tell the audience anything. Take it or leave it, it's their decision.

Okay, but that mentality has trickled down to the characters themselves.  When they get a piece of info(the pilot's final words, the radio message, the first polar bear, the metal hatch, the case of guns, etc), their first inclination is "Let's not tell anyone".  Their mentality is to always assume the others are incapable of behaving as adults.

One example is Jack and the guns. He immediately assumes bringing guns to the group will result in survivors killing survivors, nothing positive only negatives.

In earlier episodes, they decided not to share info because people will 'panic', whatever that means.  I mean, they all just survived a plane crash, have dead bodies laying around everywhere, no shelter, no rescuers in sight....I think they are as panicked as they are going to get, but oh well.

This makes me lose empathy with any of these characters.  No one is behaving like anyone I've ever met, except maybe Sawyer.

But you'll notice Sawyer isn't a proactive character, at least so far. The closest he's come is with the case, but even he didn't know what was in the case so you can't say he hid anything from anyone.  The inhaler thing was part of his role as the island's merchant. They came to him, as always, looking for an item.  He reacted to their demands.

Too bad they haven't done anything with his character beyond that. He only other notable trait is his thing for Kate, which I can totally understand.  But that self-hate they have saddled him with just ruins everything.  There's nothing worse than having to watch a TV character mope around.
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dmd
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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2005, 10:04:34 PM »

Quote from: "AttAdude"


[rant]REALSE TWIN PEEKS ON DVD DAMN IT[/rant]
Sorry dont know where that came from.....

Twin peaks has been out for a couple of years or so.
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AttAdude
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« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2005, 10:05:19 PM »

Gameoverman

those 2 posts are way too long for me to respond to point by point (unless you really want that)  I agree however this show is not for you.  Based on those last 2 posts it seems to me you are looking for a narrative story ordered in a nice logical and systamatic way.  Lost has never been that nor has it claimed too.  This is like an Adventure mystery, and that does not seem to be your cup of tea.   I think because of this you are missing some very pertinant info on each character.   For instance i thought your comments on Sawyer where a gross oversimplification of a very complex guy.    

Or your comment on jack and the guns.  It it so hard for you to belive that an ER doctor from a big city (new york right?) would assume that guns would cause harm?  
Definatly not the show for you my man, but no worries one of the best thing about us humans is our crazy divergent tastes.  its what makes it interesting smile
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AttAdude
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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2005, 10:05:57 PM »

Quote from: "dmd"
Quote from: "AttAdude"


[rant]REALSE TWIN PEEKS ON DVD DAMN IT[/rant]
Sorry dont know where that came from.....

Twin peaks has been out for a couple of years or so.


Only the first season.  they stopped for some reason after that, and i dont know why.  There is however a super hard to find and often expensive VHS collection that i have been looking for.  no luck yet.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000067DNG/qid=1108073443/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-3113114-4273656?v=glance&s=dvd
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dmd
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« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2005, 10:24:01 PM »

Darn.  Didn't realize that.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2005, 10:28:13 PM »

Quote from: "AttAdude"
Gameoverman

those 2 posts are way too long for me to respond to point by point (unless you really want that)


Nah, I don't expect anyone to respond, in detail anyways. It was just that from earlier posts I thought people had the wrong idea why someone like myself is dissatisfied with the show.  I wanted to clarify some things.

Someone mentioned David Lynch.  Well, Lost for me is more like 'Lost Highway' than "Mulholland Drive', if you see the distinction.  I enjoyed Mulholland Drive, I thought there was a detectable method to the madness. Not true with Lost Highway, for me at least.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2005, 11:09:33 PM »

Loved the episode. Lockdown's theory ROCKS.

Best part of the episode by far was The Office reference. NICE! smile
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BigRedCat
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« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2005, 11:35:14 PM »

Sorry, nothing about Lockdown's theory works in my view, the same reason the purgatory theory doesn't. These are finite concepts. It's like you're dreaming up a show written by M. Night Shmayalan. So say they're in purgatory, revealed at the end of the season. Great, now who cares to watch any more? What does any of it matter? Say it's some metaphysical setup to cure 'issues' and 'problems' in these characters. Okay, how do you reveal that EVER except in the last episode of the show? Cause then your show is over, no one cares. I sure hope the writers have thought up something besides a huge GOTCHA!

Networks want a show to last 8+ years. All these ideas sound like a miniseries.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2005, 11:41:35 PM »

In a funny way, they've already dug a deep hole for themselves.

Because by not giving any answers for so long, when the day comes(if ever) where they finally do give the answers, there's no way in hell they can live up to fan expectations, or the wild fan theories.

It'll be like the reaction to the ending of 'The Village'.

Whereas if they had clued us in at the beginning what this was about, we'd be over it and taking it for what it is.  Of course, to do that the creators of the show must have an idea of what their story is all about, something I now really don't believe is true of Lost.
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BigRedCat
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2005, 01:00:12 AM »

There can still be answers, but no one unifying theory except for WHY the castaways are there. They're never going to get off, you realize. So the show will never be able to be explained in a single idea or sentence.

I realized that I really liked the show up until last night, so I consider that it's just that episode that pissed me off. That episode was about the mysteries, but these aren't going to be answered. The mysteries should be included peripherally, with real challenges at the forefront. This episode promised real answers but didn't deliver anything. IMHO it was the pacing/writing that made the episode suck enough to almost derail the show completely in my mind.

Big misstep. Ethan's buildup was great but the result felt tacked on. I don't mind Charlie killing him but it felt like a ploy by the writers with no real reason behind it.
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obb
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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2005, 12:50:00 PM »

Mysteries can break two ways.

Carnivale kept mysteries the whole first season.  They started answering them and boy are those answers interesting and neat.

X-Files kept Mulder's sister a mystery for the longest time.  And personally I think the final resolution to it was kinda lame (I didn't even realize it was resolved for a while).  After you put so many twists and turns into the mix, you have no choice but to go with something crazy.

So I'm willing to give the mysteries of Lost a shot. Maybe they'll be cool.
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