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Author Topic: Let's talk Iphone  (Read 59851 times)
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pr0ner
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« Reply #120 on: June 09, 2009, 04:34:16 AM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on June 09, 2009, 02:00:27 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 09, 2009, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Jimmy the Fish on June 08, 2009, 10:21:42 PM

Well, I was considering upgrading from my 3g iphone to the new one, but apparently for current 3g subscribers, there is no subsidized price. We get to pay the full price which is $399/$499 for the GS. Ouch.

well fuck that noise.  that's a nice little FU from AT&T to it's customers.

This is no different than the policy at every carrier regarding contracts and phones, AFAIK. It sucks, but only because the dynamics of the US cell phone market suck, and there's no public will to regulate the industry to prevent this shit.

You want to regulate the cell phone industry?  Seriously?

Protip: Regulation is not the solution to everything.

 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #121 on: June 09, 2009, 05:54:54 AM »

Quote from: pr0ner on June 09, 2009, 04:34:16 AM

Quote from: Fireball1244 on June 09, 2009, 02:00:27 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 09, 2009, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Jimmy the Fish on June 08, 2009, 10:21:42 PM

Well, I was considering upgrading from my 3g iphone to the new one, but apparently for current 3g subscribers, there is no subsidized price. We get to pay the full price which is $399/$499 for the GS. Ouch.

well fuck that noise.  that's a nice little FU from AT&T to it's customers.

This is no different than the policy at every carrier regarding contracts and phones, AFAIK. It sucks, but only because the dynamics of the US cell phone market suck, and there's no public will to regulate the industry to prevent this shit.

You want to regulate the cell phone industry?  Seriously?

Protip: Regulation is not the solution to everything.

 Roll Eyes

I didn't say that. I said that the dynamics of the market suck, but there's no public will to do anything about it. I didn't express my opinion one way or another.
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« Reply #122 on: June 09, 2009, 02:08:55 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on June 09, 2009, 03:25:11 AM

Guess if I want that TomTom functionality I have to pay for a 3G phone, *sigh*.

Or switch carriers - the Palm Pre has Sprint Navigation (vocal turn by turn directions) built right in (and uses Google Maps for its mapping data), and it has both GPS and A-GPS (cell tower triangulation) to make sure it knows where you are. And it's cheaper per month, too. biggrin

I have to admit, the iPhone 3GS (sounds like my Apple IIGS from back in the decade) sounds like a nice phone, but I'm perfectly happy where I am now with my limited software availability phone, as Apple put it (the Pre).

And anybody who wants to think that the '2 year contract' means nothing to them are a bunch of idiots. How do you think you got the phone so cheap to begin with? Go play by the rules like everybody else does when it comes to cell phones. Why do iDiots think that the rules don't apply to them?
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« Reply #123 on: June 09, 2009, 02:12:55 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 09, 2009, 02:08:55 PM

Why do iDiots think that the rules don't apply to them?

Because buying an Apple product makes them special, unique, and elevates them to a level above mere mortals, just like everyone else who owns an Apple product.  How dare ATT stand in the way of them buying an Apple product!  Of course, you'd think that they'd be used to paying several hundred dollars more for their products by now.
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« Reply #124 on: June 09, 2009, 03:06:39 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on June 09, 2009, 02:12:55 PM

Quote from: Destructor on June 09, 2009, 02:08:55 PM

Why do iDiots think that the rules don't apply to them?

Because buying an Apple product makes them special, unique, and elevates them to a level above mere mortals, just like everyone else who owns an Apple product.  How dare ATT stand in the way of them buying an Apple product!  Of course, you'd think that they'd be used to paying several hundred dollars more for their products by now.

Only hundreds? I'd pay thousands to be flippant and caustic to others for brand-non-compliance. slywink
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #125 on: June 09, 2009, 04:26:08 PM »

Bottom line is that I would pay $300 and sign up for another 2 years of AT&T's crappy service for a 32GB iphone.  For $500, odds are I'll stick it out another year with my 16GB 3G and evaluate my options.  Don't get me wrong, I love my iphone, but the 3GS isn't that much of an improvement, and in a year's time I think there will be something better out.
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« Reply #126 on: June 09, 2009, 04:45:49 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on June 09, 2009, 04:26:08 PM

Bottom line is that I would pay $300 and sign up for another 2 years of AT&T's crappy service for a 32GB iphone.  For $500, odds are I'll stick it out another year with my 16GB 3G and evaluate my options.  Don't get me wrong, I love my iphone, but the 3GS isn't that much of an improvement, and in a year's time I think there will be something better out.

That's exactly what I'm doing.  If Apple wants to keep me using my iphone next year, they'd better add some more compelling upgrades than a compass and software features that probably should have been there from the beginning.  Their competition is improving at a fairly rapid rate, and I've got my eye on what they're doing with the Android phones.
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« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2009, 04:51:29 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on June 09, 2009, 04:26:08 PM

Bottom line is that I would pay $300 and sign up for another 2 years of AT&T's crappy service for a 32GB iphone.  For $500, odds are I'll stick it out another year with my 16GB 3G and evaluate my options.  Don't get me wrong, I love my iphone, but the 3GS isn't that much of an improvement, and in a year's time I think there will be something better out.

This is why I didn't buy the iPhone 3G -- the year to year upgrades aren't that huge, hardware-wise, and buying the 3G would have put me on a 2-year contract, since the phone was clearly subsidized. Remember, Apple switched to subsidized phones with two-year contracts because people bitched about paying the real cost of the phone for the first iPhone -- I paid $600 for mine.

This is the first phone, aside from maybe the Razr, to really drive people out to buy it -- and then a year later to make them want to go out and buy the new one. If the pressure is great enough, it might change some of the contract/subsidy policies that have dominated the industry. Particularly if this same phenomenon begins to swirl around annual updates to the Pre and the Blackberry Storm.
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« Reply #128 on: June 09, 2009, 04:54:27 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on June 09, 2009, 04:45:49 PM

That's exactly what I'm doing.  If Apple wants to keep me using my iphone next year, they'd better add some more compelling upgrades than a compass and software features that probably should have been there from the beginning.  Their competition is improving at a fairly rapid rate, and I've got my eye on what they're doing with the Android phones.

Without a fairly controlled hardware platform, I don't think Android will ever amount to much. It'll end up like Windows Mobile -- the plethora of incompatible hardware arrangements will present too complicated of a target for many developers. Do you develop your app for a touchscreen? A keyboard? A multi-touch screen? What's the resolution? The orientation? The consistent iPhone design ensures cross-generation and model compatibility, something Android's ecosystem can't offer to developers.

I'd love for something like Android to take off. Particularly to displace Windows Mobile. It just seems somewhat unlikely to me, and it doesn't help that the first Android phone in the US, the G1, was just terrible.
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« Reply #129 on: June 10, 2009, 01:14:21 AM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on June 08, 2009, 08:05:04 PM

June 17 will be a good day. Can't wait to get 3.0.

Just updated my iPhone 3g to the 3.0 GM seed (registered iPhone developer). Everything looks good so far. More impressions later.
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« Reply #130 on: June 10, 2009, 05:06:33 PM »

I finally got to try an iPhone for web browsing today at a Best Buy (I think in WiFi mode). Speed seemed fine. It was cool to view the online newsletter I work on, on a portable device. Since we're strictly text (aside from a few ads), it works really nicely on an iPhone screen. Zooming and scrolling felt intuitive. The onscreen keyboard I was very sloppy with but I imagine like anyone, I could get used to it.

I'm still tempted to get an iPod Touch at this point, thought I might wait to see if they refresh the line a bit with the 3.0 OS already on it (not that $9.95 is going to break my bank, but maybe they might add some new features/programs when they do that as well).
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« Reply #131 on: June 10, 2009, 05:34:18 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on June 09, 2009, 02:12:55 PM

Quote from: Destructor on June 09, 2009, 02:08:55 PM

Why do iDiots think that the rules don't apply to them?

Because buying an Apple product makes them special, unique, and elevates them to a level above mere mortals, just like everyone else who owns an Apple product.  How dare ATT stand in the way of them buying an Apple product!  Of course, you'd think that they'd be used to paying several hundred dollars more for their products by now.

I love how when it comes to bitch-slapping Apple fans, suddenly people are happy to side with and support inane corporate policies that wireless companies have  saywhat   (Side note: wtf is up with $0.15 a text message, that's got to be the most bogus ripoff known to man.)

- - -

Anyway, like Ike, I would gladly pay the same price a new user would and sign up for yet another 2-year contract extension without a second thought.  It has never made sense to me, Apple or no, why any company would choose to punish you for wanting to upgrade your hardware (and continue to pay them for months upon end).  Yes yes yes I realize this is how it's been, but as Fireball said, it's a stupid system that we seem to be stuck with.  Why not offer some sort of trade in or rebate program?  There are plenty of ways a company (in this case 2 companies) can acknowledge that they actually appreciate your ongoing business and support.  Instead, they dare you to pay a termination fee ($175).  How stupid is this?  Keeping someone 2-3 months longer nets them more money than the stupid fee.  For Apple, every customer they retain is a potential for limitless music/movies/Apps purchases, and soon for rentals and mini-transactions.  Why not do whatever it takes to keep these customers happy?  

Ultimately these kinds of policies only hurt the companies that continue them.  I have brought in at least 5 people I know of to the iPhone, and at least 10 more are keenly aware of it because of me.  Insignificant numbers, I realize, but every bit counts in a competitive arena like this.  I am a walking talking posting advertisement/demo for Apple (and by default AT&T) - and one should never underestimate the power of word of mouth.  I am not saying they "owe" me something special, but irritating your most dedicated fanbase seems like a poor strategy for the long haul.  The fact is with a little good will, I'm guessing most customers would choose to remain loyal to both camps (Apple and AT&T) - they'd pay the advertised price and sign up for another 2 years.  That's no longer the case, as you can see by many who would normally have jumped on this choosing to wait or switch to the Pre or plan their exit to another carrier.    

As for me, I'm still at this moment a whore for Apple and AT&T's bitch.  But I will say this, any sense of brand/service loyalty I felt for either of them is gone, and I won't hesitate to jump ship (including early termination or whatever it takes) when something better comes along.  

I guess my question ultimately is whether it is/was really worth it for the combined Apple/AT&T machine to irritate the strongest part of their fanbase for the price of $200 a customer?  Again, compare that measily $200 to a year (or 2) worth of monthly fees and Apple Store purchases.  Stupid business decision if you ask me.
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« Reply #132 on: June 10, 2009, 05:42:25 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 10, 2009, 05:34:18 PM

(Side note: wtf is up with $0.15 a text message, that's got to be the most bogus ripoff known to man.)

Buy a freaking package already.  I pay $5 for 200 a month.  That's $0.025/message when used to its full extent.  If you use 34 sent and received, you've just saved money over the pay-per-use price.

The math kind of breaks down when you get to the Unlimited package for $20.

Quote from: rittchard on June 10, 2009, 05:34:18 PM

Ultimately these kinds of policies only hurt the companies that continue them.  I have brought in at least 5 people I know of to the iPhone, and at least 10 more are keenly aware of it because of me.  Insignificant numbers, I realize, but every bit counts in a competitive arena like this.  I am a walking talking posting advertisement/demo for Apple (and by default AT&T) - and one should never underestimate the power of word of mouth.  I am not saying they "owe" me something special, but irritating your most dedicated fanbase seems like a poor strategy for the long haul.  
...
As for me, I'm still at this moment a whore for Apple and AT&T's bitch.  But I will say this, any sense of brand/service loyalty I felt for either of them is gone, and I won't hesitate to jump ship (including early termination or whatever it takes) when something better comes along.  

Have you heard of the referral program?  $25 a person that you refer for up to 5 people per year.
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« Reply #133 on: June 10, 2009, 05:45:11 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 10, 2009, 05:34:18 PM

Anyway, like Ike, I would gladly pay the same price a new user would and sign up for yet another 2-year contract extension without a second thought.  It has never made sense to me, Apple or no, why any company would choose to punish you for wanting to upgrade your hardware (and continue to pay them for months upon end).  Yes yes yes I realize this is how it's been, but as Fireball said, it's a stupid system that we seem to be stuck with.  Why not offer some sort of trade in or rebate program?  There are plenty of ways a company (in this case 2 companies) can acknowledge that they actually appreciate your ongoing business and support.  Instead, they dare you to pay a termination fee ($175).  How stupid is this?  Keeping someone 2-3 months longer nets them more money than the stupid fee.  For Apple, every customer they retain is a potential for limitless music/movies/Apps purchases, and soon for rentals and mini-transactions.  Why not do whatever it takes to keep these customers happy?  

Ultimately these kinds of policies only hurt the companies that continue them.  I have brought in at least 5 people I know of to the iPhone, and at least 10 more are keenly aware of it because of me.  Insignificant numbers, I realize, but every bit counts in a competitive arena like this.  I am a walking talking posting advertisement/demo for Apple (and by default AT&T) - and one should never underestimate the power of word of mouth.  I am not saying they "owe" me something special, but irritating your most dedicated fanbase seems like a poor strategy for the long haul.  The fact is with a little good will, I'm guessing most customers would choose to remain loyal to both camps (Apple and AT&T) - they'd pay the advertised price and sign up for another 2 years.  That's no longer the case, as you can see by many who would normally have jumped on this choosing to wait or switch to the Pre or plan their exit to another carrier.    

As for me, I'm still at this moment a whore for Apple and AT&T's bitch.  But I will say this, any sense of brand/service loyalty I felt for either of them is gone, and I won't hesitate to jump ship (including early termination or whatever it takes) when something better comes along.  

I guess my question ultimately is whether it is/was really worth it for the combined Apple/AT&T machine to irritate the strongest part of their fanbase for the price of $200 a customer?  Again, compare that measily $200 to a year (or 2) worth of monthly fees and Apple Store purchases.  Stupid business decision if you ask me.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I read the above as: I'll gladly pay off half the price of my phone over two years as long as you let me stop paying it off after one year, at which point I'll ask you to give me another two year loan I plan on also cancelling early.
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« Reply #134 on: June 10, 2009, 06:17:12 PM »

If they sell you a phone at a reduced cost on condition that you pay their monthly fee for 2 years, how are they punishing you by expecting you to abide by that contract?  What's in it for them to let you break that contract?  I'm not a fanboy of AT&T or Apple, but I don't understand that. 
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #135 on: June 10, 2009, 09:19:42 PM »

T-mobile screwed up and released the specs for the 3GS
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« Reply #136 on: June 10, 2009, 10:31:49 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 10, 2009, 05:45:11 PM

Quote from: rittchard on June 10, 2009, 05:34:18 PM

Anyway, like Ike, I would gladly pay the same price a new user would and sign up for yet another 2-year contract extension without a second thought.  It has never made sense to me, Apple or no, why any company would choose to punish you for wanting to upgrade your hardware (and continue to pay them for months upon end).  Yes yes yes I realize this is how it's been, but as Fireball said, it's a stupid system that we seem to be stuck with.  Why not offer some sort of trade in or rebate program?  There are plenty of ways a company (in this case 2 companies) can acknowledge that they actually appreciate your ongoing business and support.  Instead, they dare you to pay a termination fee ($175).  How stupid is this?  Keeping someone 2-3 months longer nets them more money than the stupid fee.  For Apple, every customer they retain is a potential for limitless music/movies/Apps purchases, and soon for rentals and mini-transactions.  Why not do whatever it takes to keep these customers happy?  

Ultimately these kinds of policies only hurt the companies that continue them.  I have brought in at least 5 people I know of to the iPhone, and at least 10 more are keenly aware of it because of me.  Insignificant numbers, I realize, but every bit counts in a competitive arena like this.  I am a walking talking posting advertisement/demo for Apple (and by default AT&T) - and one should never underestimate the power of word of mouth.  I am not saying they "owe" me something special, but irritating your most dedicated fanbase seems like a poor strategy for the long haul.  The fact is with a little good will, I'm guessing most customers would choose to remain loyal to both camps (Apple and AT&T) - they'd pay the advertised price and sign up for another 2 years.  That's no longer the case, as you can see by many who would normally have jumped on this choosing to wait or switch to the Pre or plan their exit to another carrier.    

As for me, I'm still at this moment a whore for Apple and AT&T's bitch.  But I will say this, any sense of brand/service loyalty I felt for either of them is gone, and I won't hesitate to jump ship (including early termination or whatever it takes) when something better comes along.  

I guess my question ultimately is whether it is/was really worth it for the combined Apple/AT&T machine to irritate the strongest part of their fanbase for the price of $200 a customer?  Again, compare that measily $200 to a year (or 2) worth of monthly fees and Apple Store purchases.  Stupid business decision if you ask me.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I read the above as: I'll gladly pay off half the price of my phone over two years as long as you let me stop paying it off after one year, at which point I'll ask you to give me another two year loan I plan on also cancelling early.

That's how I read it.  Make no mistake, you are paying the entire price for the phone.  AT&T just lets you "finance" it over the life of the plan.
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« Reply #137 on: June 10, 2009, 10:37:54 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on June 09, 2009, 04:45:49 PM

That's exactly what I'm doing.  If Apple wants to keep me using my iphone next year, they'd better add some more compelling upgrades than a compass and software features that probably should have been there from the beginning.  Their competition is improving at a fairly rapid rate, and I've got my eye on what they're doing with the Android phones.

What are they doing with the Android phones that will make them anywhere near competitive with the iPhone in the next several years? I can't imagine that switching from the iPhone to an Android phone would be anything other than a complete step backwards.
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« Reply #138 on: June 10, 2009, 10:50:58 PM »

There's also the Pre, which seems to cover the business market a lot better.

Apple has good products, but they also inflate their worth a bit via the mystique.

And newer versions of android are coming out, not to mention new devices that all build up the android platform.  It may have had a bit of a poor launch, but the system is still supported.
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« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2009, 11:56:08 PM »

Quote from: McNutt on June 10, 2009, 06:17:12 PM

If they sell you a phone at a reduced cost on condition that you pay their monthly fee for 2 years, how are they punishing you by expecting you to abide by that contract?  What's in it for them to let you break that contract?  I'm not a fanboy of AT&T or Apple, but I don't understand that. 

What's in it for them?  My undying devotion and dedication to them lol.

Seriously though, I look at it like this.  Apple and AT&T "invest" an extra $200 in me, and I am giving them a minimum of 1 year (when the next "upgrade" comes out) of fees ($70 x 12 = $840) + who knows how much money spent at the Apple Store (estimate $600 /yr) + free pimpage from me.  This is operating under the presumption that they are *actually* losing $200 per phone to give me this price, don't forget I am still nominally paying $399.  If they keep me happy the entire 2 years, double the amount the 2 companies make on me to close to $3000.  If they lose me, that's 1400% profit they collectively threw away.  I'm pretty sure anyone who wants to make money would invest $200 today to make $3000 in 2 years.  This is not even mentioning the "good will" or "word of mouth" factor which they could potentially generate.


Irony of this post: yesterday I helped one friend of mine complete his purchase of a new iPhone, an hour ago I convinced a co-worker to upgrade, and then even as I was typing this another friend/co-worker came by (longtime Blackberry user) and asked me about Apple Care and such for his new iPhone purchase.  So that's 3 new sales I helped to influence, even when I wasn't pimping lol. 
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« Reply #140 on: June 11, 2009, 12:06:36 AM »

Back to Pimp Mode, here's an article on the 3GS processor improvements:

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579&p=1

Makes it comparable to the Pre, and sounds like game graphics are going to jump up a huge notch.  Considering how good the present graphics already are, this seems pretty incredible.

More importantly, all of this added power somehow comes with *better* battery performance, the conjecture being that more efficiency in starting and running instructions expends more instantaneous power but less over time.  Very cool.
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« Reply #141 on: June 11, 2009, 08:17:24 PM »

I've got a 16GB preordered. I have the original iPhone, so this will be a huge speed upgrade and I get it for the cheaper price. I'm really looking forward to faster web browsing and playing Pinball Dreams without the hitches. You guys do know that 3G owners can get the lower price if they wait a while, yes?
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« Reply #142 on: June 11, 2009, 08:21:02 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on June 11, 2009, 08:17:24 PM

You guys do know that 3G owners can get the lower price if they wait a while, yes?

Or simply wait another year until to buy the new new version which will be shiny and alluring and have all the 3GS owners complaining about being punished for their loyalty.
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« Reply #143 on: June 11, 2009, 08:25:42 PM »

Yeah I've got a 16gb on reserve at the store, but I'm not going in to try and grab it until lunch.  It sounds nice, but not something I need to absolutely guarantee myself on Day 1. 
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« Reply #144 on: June 11, 2009, 08:31:53 PM »

rittchard, I think you answered your own question.  Apple's not doing anything in good faith and risking that you'll stick around because they don't have to.  Even with their current policy they have you doing their bidding.  It's win/win for them.  You're weak, brother!  WEAK!
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« Reply #145 on: June 11, 2009, 08:43:52 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 11, 2009, 08:21:02 PM

Quote from: Misguided on June 11, 2009, 08:17:24 PM

You guys do know that 3G owners can get the lower price if they wait a while, yes?

Or simply wait another year until to buy the new new version which will be shiny and alluring and have all the 3GS owners complaining about being punished for their loyalty.

This is my likely tack.  Either that, or getting the phone that makes your puny little iPhones and Pre-s cry for their mommies.

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Casio tested the Exilim Mobile using the Revision F test series, one revision behind the G series currently in use. Casio lists eight tests to which the Exilim was subjected. The Water Resistance test aims to replicate the effect of being stuck in a 4"-per-hour rainstorm with 30mph winds. The Immersion test dunks the handset in a meter of water for half an hour. The Humidity test replicates 95% humidity for ten days with temperatures ranging from 86 to 149 degrees. [They tested in Nebraska in July, you say?]

Salt Fog tests keep the handset in a 48-hour mist of saline and water. The Drop test, from four feet up, involves concrete, plywood, steel and 26 gravity-facilitated introductions to same. The Vibration test straps the handset to an electrodynamic shaker and lets loose along the x axis, then y, then z. (The new Revision G tests do all three axes at once.) Dust Resistance testing took place at 95 degrees and within a cloud of "silica flour," which many servicemen will claim comes directly from the mess hall. And Solar Radiation testing involves shooting the handset into the sun blasting the handset with three days of temperatures between 90 and 120 degrees and solar intensities of 1120 watts per square meter.
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For civilian purposes, from what we can tell from the product information the phone's got plenty of charm (albeit a rather, well, camera-shaped form factor) -- browser, GPS, a 2.3" LCD, and of course the 5 Mpx camera with 3x optical zoom. The camera also does video and visual voice mail -- and just in case, you can do all that in the middle of a desert sandstorm, or from within a bank of salt fog.
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wonderpug
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« Reply #146 on: June 11, 2009, 08:57:15 PM »

Getting close to biting on a preorder.  This would be my first iPhone.  I see just about everyone who's planning to get the 3GS is opting for the 16GB version.  Is the extra 8GB really worth $100? 

Is music storage the primary need for the extra space?  I'm used to using a low capacity Shuffle as my only mp3 player so it's not that big a deal for me to occasionally juggle my stored song selection. 
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #147 on: June 11, 2009, 08:58:46 PM »

It depends.  How much music do you have?  Now how many apps do you see yourself downloading?  Will your music collection grow to exceed your storage in the next two years?
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« Reply #148 on: June 11, 2009, 09:37:23 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 11, 2009, 08:57:15 PM

Getting close to biting on a preorder.  This would be my first iPhone.  I see just about everyone who's planning to get the 3GS is opting for the 16GB version.  Is the extra 8GB really worth $100? 

Is music storage the primary need for the extra space?  I'm used to using a low capacity Shuffle as my only mp3 player so it's not that big a deal for me to occasionally juggle my stored song selection. 

The smallest 3GS is 16GB, the 8G iPhone for $99 is the regular 3G.  The 3GS comes in 16GB and 32GB.  If you're going to upgrade to the iPhone, my suggestion is to go for the 3GS instead of the 3G model.
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« Reply #149 on: June 11, 2009, 09:52:35 PM »

Quote from: McNutt on June 10, 2009, 06:17:12 PM

If they sell you a phone at a reduced cost on condition that you pay their monthly fee for 2 years, how are they punishing you by expecting you to abide by that contract?  What's in it for them to let you break that contract?  I'm not a fanboy of AT&T or Apple, but I don't understand that. 

I don't get it either.  For some reason iPhone owners seem to believe that they don't need to abide by contracts.  You get a cheap phone for the promise that you will use a service for 2 years.  Suddenly 10 months later they want another cheap phone thrown into the deal.  Honestly I've never ever heard any other group of people  complain so much-not RIM owners, not Nokia owners, nobody.
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« Reply #150 on: June 11, 2009, 10:04:11 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 11, 2009, 08:21:02 PM

Quote from: Misguided on June 11, 2009, 08:17:24 PM

You guys do know that 3G owners can get the lower price if they wait a while, yes?

Or simply wait another year until to buy the new new version which will be shiny and alluring and have all the 3GS owners complaining about being punished for their loyalty.

I don't happen to think the next update will be a major one. I think the next big step is going to be in 2011 or 2012.
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« Reply #151 on: June 11, 2009, 10:05:31 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 11, 2009, 08:57:15 PM

Is music storage the primary need for the extra space? 

These things play music too? Who knew? I just play games on mine  icon_lol
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« Reply #152 on: June 11, 2009, 10:14:10 PM »

With the right app, I've been told that storage space for music is a moot point.
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« Reply #153 on: June 11, 2009, 10:35:38 PM »

Quote from: Tokek on June 11, 2009, 09:37:23 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on June 11, 2009, 08:57:15 PM

Getting close to biting on a preorder.  This would be my first iPhone.  I see just about everyone who's planning to get the 3GS is opting for the 16GB version.  Is the extra 8GB really worth $100? 

Is music storage the primary need for the extra space?  I'm used to using a low capacity Shuffle as my only mp3 player so it's not that big a deal for me to occasionally juggle my stored song selection. 

The smallest 3GS is 16GB, the 8G iPhone for $99 is the regular 3G.  The 3GS comes in 16GB and 32GB.  If you're going to upgrade to the iPhone, my suggestion is to go for the 3GS instead of the 3G model.

Ah, thanks.  I mistakenly thought the options were 8GB 3G, 8GB 3GS, and 16GB 3GS. 
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« Reply #154 on: June 11, 2009, 11:26:54 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 11, 2009, 10:35:38 PM

Quote from: Tokek on June 11, 2009, 09:37:23 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on June 11, 2009, 08:57:15 PM

Getting close to biting on a preorder.  This would be my first iPhone.  I see just about everyone who's planning to get the 3GS is opting for the 16GB version.  Is the extra 8GB really worth $100? 

Is music storage the primary need for the extra space?  I'm used to using a low capacity Shuffle as my only mp3 player so it's not that big a deal for me to occasionally juggle my stored song selection. 

The smallest 3GS is 16GB, the 8G iPhone for $99 is the regular 3G.  The 3GS comes in 16GB and 32GB.  If you're going to upgrade to the iPhone, my suggestion is to go for the 3GS instead of the 3G model.
Ah, thanks.  I mistakenly thought the options were 8GB 3G, 8GB 3GS, and 16GB 3GS. 

No worries, my coworker was all excited cause he can finally upgrade his 1st gen iPhone to the 3GS for $99, but once he found out that the $99 is for the regular ole 3G, he was sad, that's how I knew.

I'm also so close to finally switching over from TMo to ATT, just for the 3GS, although my 3G jailbroken iPhone is still working fine with TMo, so I'm hesitating.
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« Reply #155 on: June 12, 2009, 12:03:16 AM »

Quote from: McNutt on June 11, 2009, 08:31:53 PM

rittchard, I think you answered your own question.  Apple's not doing anything in good faith and risking that you'll stick around because they don't have to.  Even with their current policy they have you doing their bidding.  It's win/win for them.  You're weak, brother!  WEAK!

Oh yeah I know I am totally weak  icon_biggrin  And I know that I could wait til next March and get the better pricing.  But I want my goodies NOW.  Not everyone is like me though, so they are taking a risk.  Also I've always been like this, it's not an Apple/iPhone exclusive feeling.  I think the whole 2-year lock thing is ridiculous.  The tech cycle is clearly much faster than this for phones/PDAs so it makes absolutely no sense to me.  There should be some sort of upgrade or trade-in process so that people who are prone to do so can upgrade in a natural cycle.  I mean in how many other product types are you left wanting to spend money on something sooner rather than later, but the companies want to penalize you to do so? 

From a business standpoint, I would think you would always want to do whatever it takes to keep selling hardware, and keep selling more hardware on a regular basis.  The more hardware you sell, the more service/fees and software you sell.  Lock your customers in with your products, not some cheesy contract.  Now if you can convince me they are truly selling all this hardware at a loss, well that might alter my opinion a bit.  But even still I'd be inclined to lose a little money at times to hold onto a customer's loyalty. 

Anyway, that's just me, I guess most people here are content with the 2-year upgrade cycles and service contracts.
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« Reply #156 on: June 12, 2009, 01:58:37 AM »

It's not a penalty.  You want a new phone, pay the full price.  You signed a contract to get a discount.  You honestly don't have to sign a contract (you do have to agree to the terms of service), they just won't discount the phone.  But sweet merciful crap, IT'S NOT A GORRAM PENALTY!

You can go directly to Motorola or Nokia and buy phones directly from them, some that aren't even offered through the carriers.  AT&T stopped extending contracts for price plan changes over two years ago.  A discount on the phone is now the only reason the contract will be extended. 

Apple's rules as to the contract may be different since I've left the company, but every other mfg phone is available at retail.  Hell, my team was responsible for taking the orders from customers over the phone in Customer Care.  Full retail was ALWAYS an option.
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« Reply #157 on: June 14, 2009, 09:20:09 PM »

So I got the final release of the 3.0 software a few days ahead of schedule.  Landscape keyboard on email and text msgs is a godsend...the search function searches your entire phone, including email...let's see, copy and paste is hit or miss...I can't seem to select anything other than editable text to copy, so it kinda sucks, unless I'm just not doing it right...And voice memos...yay...nothing major or new that hasn't been done with apps for over a year...

 mad @ Apple for not giving the 3G video capability...
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« Reply #158 on: June 14, 2009, 10:54:58 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on June 14, 2009, 09:20:09 PM

So I got the final release of the 3.0 software a few days ahead of schedule.  Landscape keyboard on email and text msgs is a godsend...the search function searches your entire phone, including email...let's see, copy and paste is hit or miss...I can't seem to select anything other than editable text to copy, so it kinda sucks, unless I'm just not doing it right...And voice memos...yay...nothing major or new that hasn't been done with apps for over a year...

 mad @ Apple for not giving the 3G video capability...

You can definitely select more than editable text.  The way you do the selection is you hold down near the text to bring up that magnifying glass thing.  Then you let go right before the text you want to select.  You can then hit select and drag the little guide to what you want to copy.

I love the whole iPhone search as well as the email search. The whole iPhone search is awesome because I can look for things like phone numbers or emails without even opening up the app first.  Oh, also love how the recent calls shows which of the contact's phone numbers they used to call you (mobile, home, etc.).  Can't rif the text messages window had a Call button on it or not, but I just noticed it for the first time if it was already there, so it is new to me.
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« Reply #159 on: June 15, 2009, 11:45:57 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 12, 2009, 01:58:37 AM

It's not a penalty.  You want a new phone, pay the full price.  You signed a contract to get a discount.  You honestly don't have to sign a contract (you do have to agree to the terms of service), they just won't discount the phone.  But sweet merciful crap, IT'S NOT A GORRAM PENALTY!

You can go directly to Motorola or Nokia and buy phones directly from them, some that aren't even offered through the carriers.  AT&T stopped extending contracts for price plan changes over two years ago.  A discount on the phone is now the only reason the contract will be extended. 

I understand all of the logistics and the rules and the contracts, but I'm looking for some company to buck the trend and think a bit more progressively.  Maybe "penalty" is the wrong word, but the fact is, ignoring all those details, you are charging New Customer A one price, and charging Old Loyal Customer B a price $200 higher.  However you want to justify what that $200 means, it is costing, in the moment, $200 MORE for the same piece of hardware. 

What I'm saying is if I were running a company, I would want to think further than my bottom line at this one moment in time.  I would think about what it means to generate good will and customer loyalty, and perhaps challenge the standard rules.  I might offer a trade-in deal to my loyal customers, or a rebate, or offer a "warranty" that for a few dollars more per month, they could upgrade to a new version at the new customer price.  My priority would be to keep selling as much new hardware as possible (even at a temporary loss in some instances), keep my customers happy for as long as possible, and generate enough good will and good word of mouth that they would recommend me to other people.  For the long term, more hardware sales = more software sales, and longer contracts = more monthly fees to collect, both companies win.  Good word of mouth = more customers.  It's all win if you ask me, aside from the $200 my company may have to eat in the short term. 

Here's an example of how this sort of thing affects these companies.  This weekend my sister asked me if I'd be willing to take my parents from Verizon over to my AT&T account (she's presently paying for their cel phones) because Verizon limits their family plan to 5 people and she hit the max.  As an aside, I'm also paying my partner's cel on Verizon but that contract is over.  If I was 100% happy with AT&T/Apple and their upgrade policies, I very likely would have converted my partner over to AT&T with my old iPhone, and then moved my parents' accounts to AT&T as well.  Given my feelings now (I'm not mad, I just don't feel any desire or loyalty to dump extra money their way), I'd just as soon move my parents over to the Verizon account, and plan to leave AT&T as soon as Apple leaves them.  So there you go - the short term $200 they got from me today cost them potentially 3 new customers and 1 old customer, an untold thousands of dollars in monthly fees over the long term.

- - -

In 3GS news, got shipping info from UPS saying the unit shipped today from Shenzen, China! 
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