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The General
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« on: August 01, 2005, 07:33:43 PM »

Me and my wife dont have any children, and as i mention to many people before, i dont think we want to bring any child into this world, so what do yall think:

Is Adoption a better choice then bringing a child into this world?

Its really the same in a matter of speaking, but i figure since its so many children who need homes, why not go the Adoption route instead of going the other route.

Just curious thats all......I could elaborate into a more serious discussion, but its the wrong place and wrong year, so this is all.
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2005, 09:46:46 PM »

As Bob Brker says.."Spay and Neuter"
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2005, 09:56:04 PM »

As there are so many children who need to be adopted I'd say go with adoption. Of course you may want a child to carry on your blood line.
One reason many children don't get adopted is they're not health white babies. Many would be parents wouldn't think of any other kind when the other types are the ones who really need the love and homelife.Not that healthy white babies don't either but I think you get the picture.  :wink:
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2005, 10:02:47 PM »

Yeah, if you're not particularly enamored with passing on your genetic material, adopt.  There are so many kids who need to be adopted - it's a shame it's so hard and expensive to do so (though I understand the need for a rigorous screening process).

Personally,  I hope to adopt as well as have biological children.
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2005, 10:56:19 PM »

Quote from: "The General"
Is Adoption a better choice then bringing a child into this world?


That depends entirely on a rather diverse set of factors.

Do you want to be a parent?  If you're not bringing children into this world because you don't want the responsibility/hassle of children, or because you know you'd be a horrible mother/father, then adoption is certainly not right for you.

Why do you want to be a parent?  If it's to help a child become an adult with the ability to function in this (wonderful/fucked) world we've created, then, by all means, look into adoption.  If it's because you have some burning desire to mold a miniature you, adoption might not be your best choice.  Yes, upbringing can shape a child to some degree, but it's easier to make a rectangle out of a square than it is to make a sphere.

Are you capable of loving the adopted child as if it were your own flesh-and-blood?  If no, please leave the orphaned children be.

My wife and I, through a conflagration of circumstances, will have to turn to surrogacy or adoption if we are to become parents.  It is not a simple decision, nor is it an easy one.  There a multitude of factors to consider, with the above being only a rudimentary gesture in their general vicinity.  It's a shame that those blessed enough to be able to reproduce their own children don't have to put the same kind of planning and forethought into bringing life into this world that others are forced to.
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2005, 12:15:40 AM »

I think it's sad that many people see adoption only as an alternative to fertility problems -- as others have said there are tons of kids growing up in a foster system that aren't able to become the types of people they could be with some good love and a consistent environment.  I wish people who already had a child would consider adopting to help balance the world's load.    I honestly hope to pursue this course myself one day -- it's probably the largest challenge a couple could take on, but the rewards are really immeasurable in terms of how you live your best life, and how you can completely alter the reality of someone who by pure randomness was born into a bad scenario.

Nice thread!
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The General
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2005, 01:31:09 AM »

Quote from: "CrayolaSmoker"
Quote from: "The General"
Is Adoption a better choice then bringing a child into this world?


That depends entirely on a rather diverse set of factors.

Do you want to be a parent?  If you're not bringing children into this world because you don't want the responsibility/hassle of children, or because you know you'd be a horrible mother/father, then adoption is certainly not right for you.

Why do you want to be a parent?  If it's to help a child become an adult with the ability to function in this (wonderful/fucked) world we've created, then, by all means, look into adoption.  If it's because you have some burning desire to mold a miniature you, adoption might not be your best choice.  Yes, upbringing can shape a child to some degree, but it's easier to make a rectangle out of a square than it is to make a sphere.

Are you capable of loving the adopted child as if it were your own flesh-and-blood?  If no, please leave the orphaned children be.

My wife and I, through a conflagration of circumstances, will have to turn to surrogacy or adoption if we are to become parents.  It is not a simple decision, nor is it an easy one.  There a multitude of factors to consider, with the above being only a rudimentary gesture in their general vicinity.  It's a shame that those blessed enough to be able to reproduce their own children don't have to put the same kind of planning and forethought into bringing life into this world that others are forced to.


I was saying if we do, but as this one drunk man told me(i meet alot of drunks who seem to know alot of things), things can change in the future. So if we decide to want children in the futue, i think adoption would be the right choice, i can handle any type of responsibility.

The only thing i am worried about is trying to rise him or her up right, you know how things go with some children as they get older.
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2005, 02:23:25 AM »

We're kicking around this dilemma right now.  The only way for us to have kids is either in vitro (around $14,000) or adoption (slightly less at 10 - 12k).  I wouldn't mind adopting, but Mrs. Gratch really wants to have kids of 'our own'.  I'd prefer the adoption route as I have a feeling her multiple health issues are going to make for a very tough pregnancy.

We'll see what happens, but since women usually get their way, we're probably going to try for our own first.
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2005, 02:24:41 AM »

I just want to say that anyone who will seriously consider whether or not to have a child based on a drunk's advice is probably not fit for parenthood.

In all seriousness though, I know I want kids U2K, very badly, but I need to find the right lady and I am nowhere near that point in my life, so it will wait, probably another decade or so.
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2005, 02:47:37 AM »

There's a lot to be said for the whole pregnancy experience, from seeing the child in the ultrasound to being in the delivery room as your baby is born. The memory of my two-minute-old daughter grabbing hold of my finger is something that I'll keep with me always. Adopting a child is a wonderful thing, but bringing a new baby into the world and giving it a good home and a good life is just as wonderful.
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2005, 02:56:33 AM »

I would never adopt.  I've seen way too many examples of adopted kids becoming, well, screwed up later on in life.  And if there are any adopted people on the forum - I apologize for the comments - but it's just the way I've seen things from my perspective.
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2005, 07:09:48 AM »

I would never have kids. I seen to many parents raise kids that turned into rapist, murders, carrot top.  And if there are any people raised by their biological parents on this forum, I apologize for my comment you sick sons of...I mean you fellow members. Sorry its just the way I see things
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2005, 01:04:01 PM »

depward, birth is so completely random in terms of those born into stability and those born out of it that I don't think you can stereotype an entire group.  Your birth status has nothing to say about the type of individual you grow up to bet as much as what people do with you for the next ten years.  You can fault the foster system, but at the very least the best foster parents sign up for the challenge of helping someone out, not avoiding the problem because of misinformed prejudice.
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2005, 02:11:30 PM »

Quote from: "depward"
I would never adopt.  I've seen way too many examples of adopted kids becoming, well, screwed up later on in life.  And if there are any adopted people on the forum - I apologize for the comments - but it's just the way I've seen things from my perspective.


*shrug*

Three of my family members were adopted, and they are the nicest, most thoughtful, kindest people you would ever hope to meet.  They were all adopted at a relatively young age (2 and under).  You do have a case for those who are older and were raised in abusive environments, but simply being an adopted child does not make them more prone to being screwed up later on.
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2005, 04:30:39 PM »

Well sure, some adopted kids are messed up later in life.  I've known a couple who were, many more who were not.  The ratio of messed up to not was no different than kids raised by their bilogicial parents...

But the two people I've met in my life who were the most messed up without any doubt?  Both were raised by their biological parents.
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2005, 07:56:46 PM »

If you don't have kids, you can't have grandkids.

Kids are worth it if for only that reason.

And I'm not sure why anyone would be hesitant to bring a child into the world.

-Randy
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The General
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2005, 10:29:37 PM »

Quote from: "LoneStarSpur"

And I'm not sure why anyone would be hesitant to bring a child into the world.

-Randy


http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/02-99/02-02-99/a01lo008.htm

One example, should i continue?

 :lol:
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2005, 10:32:33 PM »

I've trained kids in martial arts for most of my life.  It fills the void for my wife and I as we get all the proud moments without disrupting our schitzo schedule.  Might consider becoming big bro/sister to a kid and 'try it on' without all the commitment?  I dunno...
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2005, 01:19:22 AM »

Many foster parents take on 5 or 6 kids just for the money. It is quite disgusting. There are also plenty of illegal adoptions that take place, where children are kidnapped, ill, or seriously abused. That is the negative side of things. On the positive side, the world is what we make of it.

  Children are direct representaions of their parents. My daughter is two years old but she is my wife and I. Everything we do with or to her is reflected in her behavior. She has my temper, but also my out going friendly nature. She is loving and sensitive like my wife. Parenting is THE most important job that anyone can ever have. In order for the human species to survive people have to bare children, so anyone arguing that it would be cruel to bring a child in to this world is not only wrong, but the reason that the world has so many problems.

  Not wanting children is your choice, not wanting to do it because the world is "a bad place" is ludicrous. Keep sitting on the sidelines, i'll take a moment to notice your gone when natural selection scoops you up.
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2005, 02:53:54 AM »

Quote from: "The General"
Quote from: "LoneStarSpur"

And I'm not sure why anyone would be hesitant to bring a child into the world.

-Randy


http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/02-99/02-02-99/a01lo008.htm

One example, should i continue?

 :lol:


If bad news is the top criteria for deciding wether or not to have a child, there would have been no births after 9-11. The world's not always a good place, but that shouldn't stop you from adding some joy into the world by having a baby.
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2005, 08:16:01 AM »

Quote from: "LoneStarSpur"
If you don't have kids, you can't have grandkids.

Kids are worth it if for only that reason.

And I'm not sure why anyone would be hesitant to bring a child into the world.

-Randy

If one doesn't want kids why would they want grankids?

Call crazy but I hope people that can't afford to have kids shouldn't be having any. I wish the hookers that have their kids in the next room while doing guys would have taken a wiser option. People on crack really shouldn't be having kids. 13 year olds should not be having kids. People that are not willing to spend time with their children shouldn't have had them.  

There is a major problem with people having kids but lacking the ability to raise the kids. Single parents households are become the norm and the fact that most people in prison are from single parent household should tell us something.

Sure have a hundred kids. Who the hell cares if you have a few crack babies. Who the hell cares if some of them will become child prostitutes. Who the hell cares if they will grow up not knowing how to be good a husband or a good wife. As long as they are cranking out more little criminals who hell cares.
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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2005, 09:14:15 AM »

We want no kids. I like some of my friends WELL BEHAVED kids, but I certainly don`t want that ALL OF THE TIME!!!
I`m not sure why people think they "need" to have children. Just my opinion I guess.
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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2005, 12:58:14 PM »

Quote from: "Harpua3"
We want no kids. I like some of my friends WELL BEHAVED kids, but I certainly don`t want that ALL OF THE TIME!!!
I`m not sure why people think they "need" to have children. Just my opinion I guess.


Dont have children. If you dont want kids around, DONT DO IT.

I will say this, I have two kids and I HATE when other kids are around, always did.. before my children I hated being around kids. But I love my kids to death.. and they are totally worth all the hardship, I hope to never live without them.

I had trouble concieving initially and we had fertility problems, but I never decided if I would adopt given my circumstances..

Tough decision.
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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2005, 09:43:03 PM »

Quote from: "The General"
Quote from: "LoneStarSpur"

And I'm not sure why anyone would be hesitant to bring a child into the world.

-Randy


http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/02-99/02-02-99/a01lo008.htm

One example, should i continue?

 :lol:

/shrug

The world has never been perfect. Never will be. Back in about 1920 my long-dead great grandfather pistol whipped a man half to death for molesting his own daughter. There have always been monsters in the world and always will be.

I refuse to let them win.

-Randy
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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2005, 09:53:41 PM »

Quote from: "Baron Of Hell"

If one doesn't want kids why would they want grankids?

Because grandkids are about a million times more fun than kids are. biggrin

My nearly three year old grandson, along with his parents, lives with my wife and me and it's been very hard at times. But it's also something I wouldn't have missed for anything. I think the older you get the more you can appreciated the sense of wonder that children have about virtually everything.

Wife and family are everything to me and I would be nothing without that. Every "thing" else is just extranious bullshit and utterly without meaning.

-Randy
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« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2005, 10:57:20 PM »

Quote from: "Baron Of Hell"

Call crazy but I hope people that can't afford to have kids shouldn't be having any. I wish the hookers that have their kids in the next room while doing guys would have taken a wiser option. People on crack really shouldn't be having kids. 13 year olds should not be having kids. People that are not willing to spend time with their children shouldn't have had them.  


I agree with everything except the first statement.  If being able to afford kids was a prerequisite to having them, I'd wager many of us wouldn't be here.  My parents certainly couldn't monetarily "afford" to have me when they did, but it didn't matter - they scrimped and saved and made it work, as do most couples just starting out.
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« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2005, 03:50:24 AM »

Quote from: "HankRaptor"
Quote from: "Harpua3"
We want no kids. I like some of my friends WELL BEHAVED kids, but I certainly don`t want that ALL OF THE TIME!!!
I`m not sure why people think they "need" to have children. Just my opinion I guess.


Dont have children. If you dont want kids around, DONT DO IT.

I will say this, I have two kids and I HATE when other kids are around, always did.. before my children I hated being around kids. But I love my kids to death.. and they are totally worth all the hardship, I hope to never live without them.

I had trouble concieving initially and we had fertility problems, but I never decided if I would adopt given my circumstances..

Tough decision.


 Well, I actually like some of friends kids, but I sure as hell don`t want them 24/7...That`s alot going on, ALL THE TIME with a kid. I struggle to manage my life :wink: , I can only imagine having a kid...
 I`m just suprised SO MANY people have kids. I think that most shouldn`t... :shock: ...I`m running away now :!:
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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2005, 11:51:29 PM »

Quote from: "Gratch"
We'll see what happens, but since women usually get their way, we're probably going to try for our own first.


Heh. Right.... were you just complaining about trying to create your own? slywink

I'm in a single dad life now. I'd have to say that adpoption is a long and difficult road, moreso than child-bearing. The countless scrutinies, the waiting lists, etc etc. That's not to say I disagree with adoption, but really, you almost have a different mentality going into it. Pregnancy changes your chemical balance (for new moms AND dads) and also alters your mental process. There are switches in your mind that are never activated until you become a parent, and I know in my experience the caring for the pregnant mother and then going through (very hands on) with delivery and raising the child from the first time they open their eyes flicked on those for me.

I don't know about the adoption route, it seems so much more ... clinical. Like picking out a dog at the pound. You see what you want, and it seems right at the time, but you'd have to give 200% effort to appreciate the child for who they are and not for whom you want to mold them into. (as preconcieved notions are easier when there is a CHOICE.

Re-reading what I've written, I think that trap exists in both circumstances, but it's predominant in the adoption path. I suppose that explains the exhaustive screening process.
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« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2005, 04:34:53 PM »

Quote from: "Driver"
depward, birth is so completely random in terms of those born into stability and those born out of it that I don't think you can stereotype an entire group.  Your birth status has nothing to say about the type of individual you grow up to bet as much as what people do with you for the next ten years.  You can fault the foster system, but at the very least the best foster parents sign up for the challenge of helping someone out, not avoiding the problem because of misinformed prejudice.


I don't know, I think there's some validity to what depward says. A lot of children who are up for adoption are there due to bad circumstances, and a lot of those bad circumstances may come from bad genetics (the parents are screwed up). So if the kid shares the parents genetics, there's a greater than average chance they might be screwed up. Of course this is just speculation and opinion.

And I think you should refrain from crying out ignorance just because someone's making an empirical observation. The world isn't an idealistic place, give the guy a break; he's being honest.
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