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Author Topic: Keeping it ALL in the family  (Read 2343 times)
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Isgrimnur
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« on: December 16, 2010, 10:08:13 PM »

Columbia Spectator

Quote
Political science professor David Epstein, 46, was charged Thursday with having a sexual relationship with his daughter, 24.  He was arrested Wednesday morning and charged with one count of incest in the third degree at an arraignment hearing on Thursday. According to police, the relationship appears to have been consensual.
...
His wife, Sharyn O’Halloran, chair of the executive committee of the University Senate and a tenured professor, also declined to comment when reached by phone.

According to a University spokesman, Epstein is now on administrative leave and is no longer teaching students.

His defense attorney, Matthew Galluzzo, said the public should remember that Epstein has not yet been convicted.

“David is a respected member of the Columbia University and national academic communities, and we think he deserves privacy and respect while the investigators are investigating. We are asking people to remember that these allegations are nothing more than allegations,” he said.

I guess what goes on behind those ivy walls doesn't stay behind those ivy walls. 
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Moliere
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2010, 11:54:39 PM »

Is only the man being arrested? I didn't read the article so I guess it depends how long the relationship has been going on.

This does bring up an interesting question about incest laws. If they were both consenting adults should the government be able to decide that relationship deserves jail time? Setting aside the potential genetic mutants if they produce offspring and the psychological trauma of a father daughter sexual relationship these are still two consenting adults.
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 12:23:17 AM »

Pfftt,and not even a picture of the daughter icon_lol
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 01:47:41 AM »

If there was one, I would have posted it.
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The Grue
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 05:09:02 AM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on December 17, 2010, 12:23:17 AM

Pfftt,and not even a picture of the daughter icon_lol

So we can see if she was hot enough to be worth her father having sex with her?
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 05:29:41 AM »

Quote from: The Grue on December 17, 2010, 05:09:02 AM

Quote from: metallicorphan on December 17, 2010, 12:23:17 AM

Pfftt,and not even a picture of the daughter icon_lol

So we can see if she was hot enough to be worth her father having sex with her?


well,there has to be some reason he risks it all...i mean if he is a Professor,surely he could of just made a play for one of his students,but it was his daughter that turned his head,instead

Reminds me of the guy from the Mama's and Papa's when that story broke a year or two ago,I'm betting he could of had his pick as well,but out of doors 1 to 3,he chose what was behind his own door icon_wink
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Sarkus
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 09:21:36 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on December 16, 2010, 11:54:39 PM

Is only the man being arrested? I didn't read the article so I guess it depends how long the relationship has been going on.

While the linked article doesn't really cover that, other articles I've seen on the case indicate the relationship began after the daughter became an adult.  Others have raised some questions about why she's not in legal trouble but supposedly the argument is that the parent has an influence over the child regardless of age and thus the parent is held responsible here.  It's similar to the argument that teachers can't have sex with students even if the student is "of age" or why bosses can get in trouble for having affairs with underlings.  It's all about the relative power difference making it hard to determine what was "consensual" and what wasn't.

This article discusses that issue plus notes that consensual incest is legal in a number of western countries, including France and the Netherlands.

To be honest, seeing Russia on that list makes me wonder if those Russian porn incest videos are legit.  icon_eek
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 09:27:13 AM by Sarkus » Logged

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Razgon
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2010, 10:11:17 AM »

The government does not police whether "bosses" have affairs with their employees - They do so in schools, since schools are public.

As Moliere said, there's reason to look at those laws again. Why should the government interfere if two people who are related are in love? Currently, we allow drugaddicts, felons, rapists and other scum of the earth to choose whoever they want to make love to, passing on their genes and environment issues to their offspring without any issues.

The only negative I see here (besides the risk of mutation of course), is the power implied in one being a parent, the other a child, but then again, the issue of power is always there in some form.
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hepcat
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2010, 02:08:52 PM »

Quote from: Sarkus on December 17, 2010, 09:21:36 AM



This article discusses that issue plus notes that consensual incest is legal in a number of western countries, including France and the Netherlands.


this actually explains a lot...
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2010, 05:42:20 PM »

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As for the Swiss bill to lift the legal ban, it will not only have to pass Parliament, but a nationwide popular vote.

It will likely "take years to pass," if at all, according to Swiss journalist Urs Huber. "All the right wing, conservative parties have immediately protested against the idea."

I suppose the modern-day swiss Oedipus cannot simply come back into the hole from whence he sprung. Truthiness!

I agree that there is an ick factor for those of us who have a child/parent relationship with our biological parents. If we jailed people on ick factors though, prison would be a very busy place.

Relationships are known for the "give and take" and coercion exists to get your take. Look at how sex is used by (generally) the female population (and taught through formative years) to establish control of their future relationships.

Lastly, if the "consensual" rule ACTUALLY applied, we'd be punishing both responsible parties for their involvement. Both sides are adults and know "better". Perhaps opening both sides up to aggravated homosexual assaults in our prison systems will help make two people in love better people.

Also, people still go and see Woody Allen flicks.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 05:44:01 PM by Purge » Logged

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PR_GMR
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2010, 05:45:56 PM »

(PR feels a wave of cold, skin crawl all over this body)

Who the fuck does that?.. Ugh.. So creepy.
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2010, 05:47:07 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 17, 2010, 05:42:20 PM

Also, people still go and see Woody Allen flicks.

they do?
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Scuzz
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2010, 05:53:44 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 17, 2010, 05:42:20 PM

Quote
As for the Swiss bill to lift the legal ban, it will not only have to pass Parliament, but a nationwide popular vote.

It will likely "take years to pass," if at all, according to Swiss journalist Urs Huber. "All the right wing, conservative parties have immediately protested against the idea."

I suppose the modern-day swiss Oedipus cannot simply come back into the hole from whence he sprung. Truthiness!

I agree that there is an ick factor for those of us who have a child/parent relationship with our biological parents. If we jailed people on ick factors though, prison would be a very busy place.

Relationships are known for the "give and take" and coercion exists to get your take. Look at how sex is used by (generally) the female population (and taught through formative years) to establish control of their future relationships.

Lastly, if the "consensual" rule ACTUALLY applied, we'd be punishing both responsible parties for their involvement. Both sides are adults and know "better". Perhaps opening both sides up to aggravated homosexual assaults in our prison systems will help make two people in love better people.

Also, people still go and see Woody Allen flicks.


1. With Woody Allan it was an adopted? step-daughter.

2. Nobody see's his movies anymore except Hollywood types.
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Purge
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2010, 06:01:07 PM »

Shamelessly borrowed from This Is Fun.

Spoiler for what about brothers? Also, what is the age of consent for turtles?:

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CeeKay
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2010, 06:02:35 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 17, 2010, 06:01:07 PM

Shamelessly borrowed from This Is Fun.

Spoiler for what about brothers? Also, what is the age of consent for turtles?:


I wonder how many people are going to get odd looks if their co-workers see that one  icon_lol
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2010, 06:05:07 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 17, 2010, 06:01:07 PM

Shamelessly borrowed from This Is Fun.

Spoiler for what about brothers? Also, what is the age of consent for turtles?:


I hate to point this out.. but in the homosexual world, there's also a disturbing incidence of consentual incest between fathers and sons.. and even brothers. There are several porn star twin brothers and even triplets (The Visconti triplets) who all get down with each other.
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 12:53:23 AM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on December 17, 2010, 06:05:07 PM

I hate to point this out.. but in the homosexual world, there's also a disturbing incidence of consentual incest between fathers and sons.. and even brothers. There are several porn star twin brothers and even triplets (The Visconti triplets) who all get down with each other.

I'm not sure that I would use porn as your guide for what's normal in any group.
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rickfc
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 01:10:55 AM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on December 17, 2010, 06:05:07 PM

Quote from: Purge on December 17, 2010, 06:01:07 PM

Shamelessly borrowed from This Is Fun.

Spoiler for what about brothers? Also, what is the age of consent for turtles?:


I hate to point this out.. but in the homosexual world, there's also a disturbing incidence of consentual incest between fathers and sons.. and even brothers. There are several porn star twin brothers and even triplets (The Visconti triplets) who all get down with each other.

I'm afraid to ask how you know so much about this, amigo.  saywhat

Puerto Ricans don't get offended when you call them 'amigo', do they?   icon_wink
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2010, 04:02:14 AM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on December 18, 2010, 12:53:23 AM

I'm not sure that I would use porn as your guide for what's normal in any group.

WHaaaa??   saywhat
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2010, 06:16:55 AM »

Quote from: rickfc on December 18, 2010, 01:10:55 AM

Quote from: PR_GMR on December 17, 2010, 06:05:07 PM

Quote from: Purge on December 17, 2010, 06:01:07 PM

Shamelessly borrowed from This Is Fun.

Spoiler for what about brothers? Also, what is the age of consent for turtles?:


I hate to point this out.. but in the homosexual world, there's also a disturbing incidence of consentual incest between fathers and sons.. and even brothers. There are several porn star twin brothers and even triplets (The Visconti triplets) who all get down with each other.

I'm afraid to ask how you know so much about this, amigo.  saywhat

Puerto Ricans don't get offended when you call them 'amigo', do they?   icon_wink

That's it! Offended! Ban Rickfc. Better, yet, Lynch himicon_razz
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2010, 06:17:42 AM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on December 18, 2010, 04:02:14 AM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on December 18, 2010, 12:53:23 AM

I'm not sure that I would use porn as your guide for what's normal in any group.

WHaaaa??   saywhat

I don't get the Whaaa...
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2010, 04:58:31 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on December 18, 2010, 06:17:42 AM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on December 18, 2010, 04:02:14 AM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on December 18, 2010, 12:53:23 AM

I'm not sure that I would use porn as your guide for what's normal in any group.

WHaaaa??   saywhat

I don't get the Whaaa...

yeah, not sure what E#9 is going for here either.
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2010, 06:39:15 PM »

Quote from: Caine on December 18, 2010, 04:58:31 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on December 18, 2010, 06:17:42 AM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on December 18, 2010, 04:02:14 AM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on December 18, 2010, 12:53:23 AM

I'm not sure that I would use porn as your guide for what's normal in any group.

WHaaaa??   saywhat

I don't get the Whaaa...

yeah, not sure what E#9 is going for here either.

I agree with E#9.  How can porn not be your guide to what's normal for any group? It covers just about all everyday situations! Service call to a hot woman's house?  Bang her!  The hot secretary wearing a short skirt at the office today?  Bang her! The list is endless!  icon_wink
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2010, 07:46:17 PM »

Quote from: Biyobi on December 18, 2010, 06:39:15 PM

Quote from: Caine on December 18, 2010, 04:58:31 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on December 18, 2010, 06:17:42 AM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on December 18, 2010, 04:02:14 AM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on December 18, 2010, 12:53:23 AM

I'm not sure that I would use porn as your guide for what's normal in any group.

WHaaaa??   saywhat

I don't get the Whaaa...

yeah, not sure what E#9 is going for here either.

I agree with E#9.  How can porn not be your guide to what's normal for any group? It covers just about all everyday situations! Service call to a hot woman's house?  Bang her!  The hot secretary wearing a short skirt at the office today?  Bang her! The list is endless!  icon_wink
from an inverse perspective, sure.  because if porn won't go there...
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2010, 10:01:07 PM »

"regular" porn caters to what general population wants to see, meaning what people enjoy, thus within the norm.
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2010, 11:03:55 PM »

What kind of porn do you like, Raz? icon_biggrin
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Razgon
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2010, 11:47:51 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on December 18, 2010, 11:03:55 PM

What kind of porn do you like, Raz? icon_biggrin

oh, I love shark porn!
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« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2010, 02:46:15 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on December 18, 2010, 10:01:07 PM

"regular" porn caters to what general population wants to see, meaning what people enjoy, thus within the norm.

How do you define "regular porn" though?  There's a lot of incest and rape porn sites out there, for example, so that would indicate a high general population interest in that stuff.  Or "barely legal" porn.  And so on.
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