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Author Topic: Marvel: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.  (Read 11745 times)
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rshetts2
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« Reply #200 on: November 13, 2013, 11:37:36 PM »

It probably wasnt smart to put AOS up against the highest rated show on TV, NCIS.   NCIS had over 19 million viewers, last night.  In fact the whole CBS tuesday line up is kicking everybody's butt right now.  Shield has no lead in to help support it and just cant hang with the powerhouses of CBS.  I do believe that AOS will get better, given time but it needs that time to develop.  The latest episodes have basically focused on one individual and how they fit in with the team.  Once they get past that phase and can start concentrating more on the show's mythology, the show should get much more entertaining.  Until then, its a matter of whether they can survive.  I hope they can because I think theres a good show here. 
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« Reply #201 on: November 14, 2013, 12:23:31 PM »

Part of the problem with the directing is, the characters never seem to talk over each other, or in close proximity with each other. If you watch the show, the timing on when each characters talk after the other one speaks is all almost the same, even in the most heated moments. It's the dialog pacing you'd expect in soap operas.

When Whedon or one of the directors he chooses directly, the pacing of dialog tends to be snappier, but also people talk over each other all the time.

Another good example of the difference is you look at the directing and dialog for the show Community prior to Dan Harmon leaving, then after, and you notice the distinct change in pacing.
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« Reply #202 on: November 14, 2013, 01:42:19 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on November 14, 2013, 12:23:31 PM

Part of the problem with the directing is, the characters never seem to talk over each other, or in close proximity with each other. If you watch the show, the timing on when each characters talk after the other one speaks is all almost the same, even in the most heated moments. It's the dialog pacing you'd expect in soap operas.

When Whedon or one of the directors he chooses directly, the pacing of dialog tends to be snappier, but also people talk over each other all the time.

Another good example of the difference is you look at the directing and dialog for the show Community prior to Dan Harmon leaving, then after, and you notice the distinct change in pacing.

I've actually noticed this, too.  It's not quite as snappy as other, more hands-on Whedon shows.  At first, I thought it was the writing, but there's been some good stuff.  They're dumbing it down for a broader audience, I think.  I imagine the suits are setting the pace more than they should.

That said, I still find it hard to understand Fitz/Simmons some of the time.  I like the characters (Fitz in particular had a really great couple of episodes just now, and he's grown considerably for me), but something about their delivery makes it hard to pick up everything.  I don't think it's just the accents, either.
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« Reply #203 on: November 14, 2013, 08:49:27 PM »

I've taken to just giving the characters numbers.  It's easier to remember them that way.  Well, to be honest, it actually doesn't matter if I get any of them confused as they're all the same character anyway, so the numbering system is just there to give me something else to concentrate on for 42 minutes (I'm not counting the sweet, sweet release of commercials).

...I need to drop out of this one soon.  My hope that a Whedon turnaround is coming up is fading fast.
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« Reply #204 on: November 14, 2013, 11:14:30 PM »

Whedon is nowhere near this thing. His focus is on the Marvel movies and directing Avengers 2.
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rittchard
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« Reply #205 on: November 14, 2013, 11:57:10 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 13, 2013, 10:55:09 PM

I actually found the Agents cast growing on me in a couple of recent episodes, but it's pretty clear the show's too Geeky/comic book referencing for the masses, and doesn't have enough actual comic book characters for the fans of that. It's like the show is almost designed to appeal to nobody, which isn't a recipe for success. I did have reservations that mushing a crime procedural with Marvel was not necessarily going to work long-term.

Totally agree with this.  I think ABC is/was banking heavily on the success of the movies to have a "halo effect" on this show.  But then when the show came out it's like they were afraid to rely heavily on that sort of scheme, so they deliberately wrote away from that.  Not a surprise that the best episode was the one that had a direct artifact from Avengers.  Next week looks like something from Thor, but it's probably too late.

I said this a few weeks ago.  SHIELD even in the comics, has always been kind of exactly what BJ describes as "designed to appeal to nobody" lol.  The movies, though, using Samuel Jackson and later Scarlett Johansson, really upped their coolness/badass factor and I suspect that's what sold the concept.  The actual show, though, seemed afraid to capture that badass-ery from the getgo; it was more like "misfits of SHIELD" which might have appeal to some folks, but clearly not the big audiences that were fans of the movies.  Even as they have progressed, they still lack that really "kick ass we're way ahead of the curve" kind of feel that Scarlett and Samuel gave us.  This is not an effects issue.  Even shows like Nikita and Arrow have had much more exciting action sequences and badassery.   
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« Reply #206 on: November 15, 2013, 02:12:01 AM »

The big problem with SHIELD is people were expecting or wanting a show that was formed and hit the ground running.  What we got was an origin story. 
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« Reply #207 on: November 15, 2013, 06:05:27 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on November 14, 2013, 11:14:30 PM

Whedon is nowhere near this thing. His focus is on the Marvel movies and directing Avengers 2.

Whedon's team is in place.  And they are very connected to him, some by blood.  His level of direct involvement may be limited, but his DNA is all over it still.
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« Reply #208 on: November 19, 2013, 11:48:17 PM »

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« Reply #209 on: November 20, 2013, 01:29:03 PM »

You know, seeing that scene again from Skye, it just seems like her actress is just mugging it up for the camera knowing exactly what the scene was for.
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rshetts2
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« Reply #210 on: November 20, 2013, 01:39:34 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on November 20, 2013, 01:29:03 PM

You know, seeing that scene again from Skye, it just seems like her actress is just mugging it up for the camera knowing exactly what the scene was for.

Yeah she does seem to put a little extra bounce into the scene, not that theres anything wrong with that!
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« Reply #211 on: November 21, 2013, 11:05:32 PM »

Whatever!  I finally got some Agent Ward beefcake!!!
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« Reply #212 on: November 22, 2013, 05:52:03 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on November 21, 2013, 11:05:32 PM

Whatever!  I finally got some Agent Ward beefcake!!!

You could at least wipe it off now.
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« Reply #213 on: November 25, 2013, 11:35:10 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on November 15, 2013, 06:05:27 PM

Quote from: Jumangi on November 14, 2013, 11:14:30 PM

Whedon is nowhere near this thing. His focus is on the Marvel movies and directing Avengers 2.

Whedon's team is in place.  And they are very connected to him, some by blood.  His level of direct involvement may be limited, but his DNA is all over it still.

Anyone else catch the Dollhouse reference in that recent episode?  "Did I fall asleep?"  "For a little while..."  Tongue

Side note: was checking out the end of Avengers, and watching just how incredibly kick-ass Scarlett is.  She bounces herself on to an alien flying motorcycle while kicking all sorts of alien ass.  Don't forget in theory she's just a human SHIELD agent, Hawkeye too.  
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« Reply #214 on: November 26, 2013, 01:42:49 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on November 25, 2013, 11:35:10 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on November 15, 2013, 06:05:27 PM

Quote from: Jumangi on November 14, 2013, 11:14:30 PM

Whedon is nowhere near this thing. His focus is on the Marvel movies and directing Avengers 2.

Whedon's team is in place.  And they are very connected to him, some by blood.  His level of direct involvement may be limited, but his DNA is all over it still.

Anyone else catch the Dollhouse reference in that recent episode?  "Did I fall asleep?"  "For a little while..."  Tongue

Side note: was checking out the end of Avengers, and watching just how incredibly kick-ass Scarlett is.  She bounces herself on to an alien flying motorcycle while kicking all sorts of alien ass.  Don't forget in theory she's just a human SHIELD agent, Hawkeye too.  
Spoiler for Hiden:
In the comics I believe she was also a partial super soldier. Not to the extent of Captain America, but she was an enhanced human. Plus she was also a top KGB operative with extensive training.
I believe that Hawkeye as Hawkeye
Spoiler for Hiden:
In the comics he also played other heroes and did get super powers
is just human, just a top athlete and the World's top archer.
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« Reply #215 on: November 28, 2013, 12:34:01 AM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
so this last episode of S H I E L D establishes that the X-Men is not part of this universe. Did someone else see something that refutes that?
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« Reply #216 on: November 28, 2013, 01:18:58 AM »

Nah, it's Marvel, the X-Men are Marvel incarnate.

But currently, the world doesn't know or acknowledge mutants, and since someone else currently owns the movie rights to X-Men and the associated terminology like mutants and X gene, they can't use anything from there without changing things up again.

At some point they'll work out a deal to get the settings linked up somehow, but until then, they'll tip toe around all this. It's just going to take longer since the last few X-Men related movies have done well.

Same goes for Spider Man. Although a deal is probably closer to bringing in Spidey than for the X-Men, since they were seriously considering showing the Oscorp tower in The Avengers.
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« Reply #217 on: December 24, 2013, 03:35:07 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on November 14, 2013, 11:57:10 PM

SHIELD even in the comics, has always been kind of exactly what BJ describes as "designed to appeal to nobody" lol.

I guess I'm that nobody. I don't like superhero movies or secret agent stories, yet I'm enjoying this show. If it were more heavily tied into the Marvel mythos I probably wouldn't stick with it. I was afraid they were starting down this path when they did the Thor name-dropping episode.

I came for the Joss Whedon pedigree and have been disappointed in that regard. I'm not seeing the cast chemistry and the witty repartee that I associate with Whedon, except for the occasional flash (like the pranks FitzSimmons were doing). It's like this show takes itself too seriously. Lighten up and have some fun with it. 

I finally just got caught up today, and I must say that the season finale was disappointing, particularly the cliche with the supersoldier's kid. I call this type of story a "has a baby" episode. Introducing children is often a mark of desperation for a sinking show, so I groaned when Skye "had a baby." But I trust that they'll reverse that in a hurry next season.
Spoiler for Hiden:
Supersoldier was wearing a magic suit when he was caught in the explosion and we didn't see his body. He'll be back.
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« Reply #218 on: December 24, 2013, 10:57:02 AM »

FYI, i gave up oin this show... Had 5 episodes stored up on my DVR and just deleted them..  My viewing habits have changed since the Buffy days..  This show just didn't grab me
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« Reply #219 on: December 24, 2013, 02:53:09 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on December 24, 2013, 10:57:02 AM

FYI, i gave up oin this show... Had 5 episodes stored up on my DVR and just deleted them..  My viewing habits have changed since the Buffy days..  This show just didn't grab me


I haven't given up but was in two minds whether to do so when i had a few episodes stacked up to watch on my DVR as well,i have caught up now,but honestly still not overly impressed with the show.
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« Reply #220 on: December 24, 2013, 03:21:38 PM »

The main reason I'm sticking with this show is that my daughter still loves it, and I have mild hopes that they'll do some retooling over the break.  Actually, given their numbers, there's no question that they'll do some retooling, so I guess I'm really hoping that the retooling works.
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« Reply #221 on: December 24, 2013, 06:17:15 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on December 24, 2013, 03:21:38 PM

The main reason I'm sticking with this show is that my daughter still loves it, and I have mild hopes that they'll do some retooling over the break.  Actually, given their numbers, there's no question that they'll do some retooling, so I guess I'm really hoping that the retooling works.

I plan on sticking around long enough to find out what really happened to Coulson.
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« Reply #222 on: December 25, 2013, 06:40:01 PM »

Me a few weeks ago: "Didn't we already see this episode?"
Daughter: "No. All of the episodes are the same."
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« Reply #223 on: January 09, 2014, 03:35:23 PM »

Well AOS is back from the holidays.  The return episode might be the best yet.  I really liked the direction they took. 

Spoiler for Hiden:
This episode was the lynch pin to the team coming together as a unit finally.  Theyve learned the most important thing that they needed to learn was to trust each other, completely.  I think we are probably done with the wishy washy team stuff and they are now going to be a lot more kick ass.  Excellent stuff with Coulson as well, including an awesomely creepy scene.  Oh and Ron Glass alert!  Anyway I want to believe that AOS has turned the corner, and this episode shows it may have just done that.
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« Reply #224 on: January 09, 2014, 05:29:15 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on January 09, 2014, 03:35:23 PM

Well AOS is back from the holidays.  The return episode might be the best yet.  I really liked the direction they took. 

Spoiler for Hiden:
This episode was the lynch pin to the team coming together as a unit finally.  Theyve learned the most important thing that they needed to learn was to trust each other, completely.  I think we are probably done with the wishy washy team stuff and they are now going to be a lot more kick ass.  Excellent stuff with Coulson as well, including an awesomely creepy scene.  Oh and Ron Glass alert!  Anyway I want to believe that AOS has turned the corner, and this episode shows it may have just done that.

Good to hear..  Maybe I'll catch up later, but I am done with this for now
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« Reply #225 on: January 09, 2014, 07:16:02 PM »

Watched it ...

Spoiler for Hiden:
So - Coulsen's a freaking zombie.
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« Reply #226 on: January 09, 2014, 07:26:41 PM »

Definitely a good return episode, for the most part they did everything right.  Good use of the lore/movie material.  Limited use of Skye (but good use) for once.  Great Coulson stuff.  Shirtless Ward.  Kick ass May.  Love Raina.

But... I still don't know what we were supposed to glean from the Coulson reveals.  Was it supposed to be obvious or are we still supposed to be guessing because I was as confused as ever, if not more so.
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« Reply #227 on: January 09, 2014, 08:25:01 PM »

Quote from: Crusis on January 09, 2014, 07:16:02 PM

Watched it ...

Spoiler for Hiden:
So - Coulsen's a freaking zombie.

Spoiler for Hiden:
While its not surprising in the least that you would go with that.  He isnt a rotting animated corpse, he isnt craving brains or human flesh, hes pretty agile and his higher brain functions seem, for the most part, intact. It appears the only real difference in Coulson is that he lost his will to live, which they attempted to repair with false memories. So unless revival with alien tech is an automatic zombification qualifier, I would say no he is nothing like a zombie.  Now go write a book about how Jesus Christ was actually a zombie and the Last Supper was a bit more unseemly than depicted in the bible!  icon_wink 
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« Reply #228 on: January 09, 2014, 08:35:48 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
That machine was probably mapping his brain for something, not reviving him.

And apparently, AoSH used some art from Mass Effect for the backdrop of that training facility they had Peterson in. There's a small net bruhaha about it.

Also, still pretty annoyed at the directing and pacing of the dialog of the show, hard to sell the idea that everyone is worried about Coulson when they only speak in orderly fashion.
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« Reply #229 on: January 10, 2014, 11:44:53 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on January 09, 2014, 08:35:48 PM

And apparently, AoSH used some art from Mass Effect for the backdrop of that training facility they had Peterson in. There's a small net bruhaha about it.

Spoiler for Hiden:
It's funny that they used something from Mass Effect, since when they revealed what happened to Coulson, my first thought was how similar it was to what Cerberus did to Commander Shepard.
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« Reply #230 on: January 10, 2014, 05:44:33 PM »

While I relatively enjoyed this week's episode after catching up on it via app last night, the series ratings' have reached a series low. Of course more than one TV show has gotten through medicore early ratings to build an audience. I guess it's up to ABC and Marvel if they think fans will gradually find the show or if it's just destined to be NCIS ratings roadkill.

Seems like the main thing in the show's survival favor is just that Marvel wouldn't want to tick off Joss Whedon by canceling what's basically his brother (Jed) and sister-in-law's show. So I bet on the show getting at least two seasons (through about Spring 2015; Avengers: Age of Ultron releases in May 2015) to find its sea legs. Then perhaps with Ultron released, Joss might get more heavily involved with the show in season 3, if it gets that far.
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« Reply #231 on: January 10, 2014, 07:04:23 PM »

It's so difficult to gauge/understand the general masses when it comes to TV, and on top of that the whole Nielsen ratings system seems a bit suspect to me. 

For instance why do shows like Law and Order, NCIS or whatever seem to continuously do well?  And pretty much every new permutation ends up being pretty strong, as long as it follows the same basic format, sticking with episode-of-the-week and occasional multi-part arcs.  Look at how well Intelligence did (16+ million?) - it was a decent premiere but it's pretty much just Chuck with the humor and quirky geek stuff neutered out.  Yet Chuck itself never had ratings even close to that.   

I'm not saying AoS is stellar TV but when it comes to crime drama/action, it just seems like America in general prefers to stay in a certain comfort zone - if you believe the Nielsen rating system.   

Maybe it still goes back to the point made before.  AoS by design is trying to straddle the line between being a "genre" vs. conventional show, and not really succeeding at either. 
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« Reply #232 on: January 10, 2014, 08:45:14 PM »

I was thinking of checking out Intelligence based on how similar to Chuck it looks.  Is there a Sarah analog? 
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« Reply #233 on: January 10, 2014, 09:18:17 PM »

I watched the episode last night and enjoyed it, even though it took the series farther into serious badass Marvel territory rather than the playful clever Whedon promise that enticed me in the first place. Action comic superhero stuff just isn't for me. That said, I think AoS keeps it accessible for somebody who isn't a fan of the genre...although they did lose my wife six episodes ago.

The cast is starting to gel and the story arc is emerging from the early monster-of-the-week episodes. The show's improving, even if it's not going in the direction that I had hoped it would.   
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« Reply #234 on: January 10, 2014, 09:21:01 PM »

Quote from: Rowdy on January 10, 2014, 08:45:14 PM

I was thinking of checking out Intelligence based on how similar to Chuck it looks.  Is there a Sarah analog? 

Yeah, Meghan Ory - she played Ruby/Red Riding Hood in Once Upon A Time.  She's pretty hot (if you've seen her in Once you'll know), though she doesn't show much in the premiere.  Personally I am still partial to Yvonne Strahotski though.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0651441/
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« Reply #235 on: January 10, 2014, 09:23:13 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on January 10, 2014, 09:18:17 PM

The cast is starting to gel and the story arc is emerging from the early monster-of-the-week episodes. The show's improving, even if it's not going in the direction that I had hoped it would.   

Seems like this might be the show's ultimate downfall, the split between fans like me who want it to go Marvel/badass vs. others that wanted the other direction.
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« Reply #236 on: January 11, 2014, 03:12:17 AM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on January 09, 2014, 08:25:01 PM

Quote from: Crusis on January 09, 2014, 07:16:02 PM

Watched it ...

Spoiler for Hiden:
So - Coulsen's a freaking zombie.

Spoiler for Hiden:
  Now go write a book about how Jesus Christ was actually a zombie and the Last Supper was a bit more unseemly than depicted in the bible!  icon_wink 

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« Reply #237 on: January 11, 2014, 03:50:41 AM »

Quote
Look at how well Intelligence did (16+ million?) - it was a decent premiere but it's pretty much just Chuck with the humor and quirky geek stuff neutered out.  Yet Chuck itself never had ratings even close to that.   

I think a lot of Intelligence's draw was due to star power, something Chuck did not have.  You have Marg Helgenberger, whos got lots of clout and Sawyer from LOST, in his first starring role since LOST.  I think they would have been very disappointed if it didnt draw huge to start.  It will likely have a big drop ( most new shows do ) and then settle in somewhere around 9-10 million, if its any good.
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« Reply #238 on: January 11, 2014, 02:53:40 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on January 10, 2014, 05:44:33 PM

While I relatively enjoyed this week's episode after catching up on it via app last night, the series ratings' have reached a series low. Of course more than one TV show has gotten through medicore early ratings to build an audience. I guess it's up to ABC and Marvel if they think fans will gradually find the show or if it's just destined to be NCIS ratings roadkill.

Seems like the main thing in the show's survival favor is just that Marvel wouldn't want to tick off Joss Whedon by canceling what's basically his brother (Jed) and sister-in-law's show. So I bet on the show getting at least two seasons (through about Spring 2015; Avengers: Age of Ultron releases in May 2015) to find its sea legs. Then perhaps with Ultron released, Joss might get more heavily involved with the show in season 3, if it gets that far.

I imagine it'll stick around through Ultron, but not out of respect for Whedon.  It'll be because they'll be predicting an uptick in viewers as the excitement for the movie builds.

Of course, if it keeps dropping viewers, that uptick may wind up not being worth it, but if they level off, it'll probably last for a bit.
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That's like blaming owls because I suck at making analogies.
rittchard
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« Reply #239 on: January 16, 2014, 06:32:48 PM »

While I'm personally enjoying the show and will stick with it, I have to wonder if these guys aren't just killing themselves.  They don't seem to know where they want to be or where they want to go with the whole "superpower" concept.  This is making the tone in the writing suffer.  One minute we're told telepathy doesn't exist, the next we see Iceboy freezing windows.  The world knows about Thor, so that implies "magic" and other-worldly powers and objects (as well as aliens) are in full existence, yet they are hesitant to embrace these ideas.  I think this internal conflict (for lack of a better word) is really confusing the writers, and by extension, the viewers. 

The original premise seemed like it wanted to be a grounded, almost procedural team-based crime fighting show, with only slight side touches from the Marvel superhero universe.  Like Hawaii 5-O on a plane.  But that idea seemed to be boring to people like me, so now they seem to be going the other direction.  But they don't really seem "committed" to that, either, so it comes across hesitant and almost half-ass.  You can make fun of Tomorrow People for being a bad show, but at least they are very consistent with their ideas on powers, so that never impacts the show.  Same thing with Arrow (though they might be struggling with how to handle Flash in terms of how much of his power set to embrace). 

Just choose a side, so to speak, and don't be afraid to run with it, that's my take.  Hopefully next week's "series changing" episode will mark the turning point.

Spoiler for Hiden:
So any theories on Sky?  Alien?  Phoenix?  Skrull?
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