[Penn State Saga] Sandusky Convicted - Sanctions Declared

[Purge]

... I could get behind that. I agree - the risk of it may be the intent to add pressure.

[hepcat]

The institution itself also failed, not just 4 men.  While I'm not calling for the death of college football at Penn State, I can understand the call for at least a year off while they examine why such a systemic failure occurred and put in subsequent oversights to make sure it doesn't happen again...or at least not as easily as it was before.

[Gratch]

It's a good message, but I don't think the staff and students of PSU need further punishment - considering they aren't the culprits.

These students?

[Scuzz]

It's probably helping with the clean up efforts to have this threat of the death penalty hanging over them to make sure all those responsible get outed.

They are already gone and two are facing criminal prosecution. I think the NCAA will feel it has to do something and the football team will be the ones punished. In a sense while hurting "innocent" players it is the football teams of the past that benefited most from the "football first" attitude of Paterno and Penn State.

I kept hearing on the radio yesterday that a couple years ago the AD went to Paterno's house to fire him, and Paterno refused to let him in and ended up keeping his job. If that story is true is says who the boss was at Penn State.

[Purge]

It's a good message, but I don't think the staff and students of PSU need further punishment - considering they aren't the culprits.

These students?

I didn't see any sexual abuse in that video (for the culpability, of course, in this discussion). Or was that not an on-topic reference?

I suppose they should just shut down any schools in Montreal, or the NHL should close up Vancouvers' team.

[hepcat]

At that time, the students also weren't aware of the Freeh report's findings.  There was still reason to believe JoePa wasn't really aware of what had transpired with Sandusky...or that he didn't fully understand it. 

We're not seeing these riots now that the Freeh report HAS been released.

[Gratch]

It's a good message, but I don't think the staff and students of PSU need further punishment - considering they aren't the culprits.

These students?

I didn't see any sexual abuse in that video (for the culpability, of course, in this discussion). Or was that not an on-topic reference?

Nah, I was just being snide. 

Side note:  I found the PSU student body's behavior and reaction to the whole situation incredibly disgusting, so I can't really dredge up much sympathy if any more significant punishment comes down on the football program.

[Scuzz]

At that time, the students also weren't aware of the Freeh report's findings.  There was still reason to believe JoePa wasn't really aware of what had transpired with Sandusky...or that he didn't fully understand it. 

We're not seeing these riots now that the Freeh report HAS been released.

It will be interesting to see how the students and alums react to the report.

[Gratch]

At that time, the students also weren't aware of the Freeh report's findings.  There was still reason to believe JoePa wasn't really aware of what had transpired with Sandusky...or that he didn't fully understand it. 

We're not seeing these riots now that the Freeh report HAS been released.

It will be interesting to see how the students and alums react to the report.

Not much different, sadly.

"I don't care what anyone says, it doesn't change the fact that he's a great man," said Briana Marshall, a junior from East Stroudsburg.

Some students and alumni felt that Freeh turned Paterno into a scapegoat, and that there was little direct evidence that he took part in a cover-up. Paterno died before he could meet with investigators.

[hepcat]

There's always going to be fringe elements in every issue.  Let's wait and see if that sentiment gains momentum with more than a handful of people before we start assuming everyone from Penn State feels JoePa was innocent.

[Purge]

Gratch, I love your snide. Stick around, I don't want you making onto the milk carton post.

[gellar]

There's always going to be fringe elements in every issue.  Let's wait and see if that sentiment gains momentum with more than a handful of people before we start assuming everyone from Penn State feels JoePa was innocent.

We're also talking about 18-22 year olds.  Not exactly bastions of rational thought.

[leo8877]

Paterno's son was on ESPN yesterday stammering and stumbling through why his late father was still a god among men.  It was pretty cringe inducing to watch imo.

[leo8877]

Good, they took down the statue in front of the stadium.  

EDIT:  Sanctions are coming tomorrow:

NCAA president Mark Emmert has decided to punish Penn State with severe penalties likely to include a significant loss of scholarships and loss of multiple bowls, a source close to the decision told ESPN's Joe Schad on Sunday morning.

But Penn State will not receive the so-called "death penalty" that would have suspended the program for at least one year, the source said.

The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.

The NCAA will announce "corrective and punitive measures" for Penn State on Monday morning, it said in a statement Sunday. Emmert will reveal the sanctions at 9 a.m. ET in Indianapolis at the organization's headquarters along with Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee and Oregon State's president, the news release said.

[Jumangi]

If the NCAA imposes sanctions I hope Penn State sues them to block. They have no business inserting themselves into this IMO. This whole business is for the criminal justice system and the civil courts with lawsuits to deal with. There were no sports rules violations commited here which is what the NCAA exists for. They were criminal acts by 5 men.

[rshetts2]

If the NCAA imposes sanctions I hope Penn State sues them to block. They have no business inserting themselves into this IMO. This whole business is for the criminal justice system and the civil courts with lawsuits to deal with. There were no sports rules violations commited here which is what the NCAA exists for. They were criminal acts by 5 men.

While I agree with you to a point, I doubt very much that any action will be taken as The NCAA will claim lack of institutional control as the reason and that covers non athletic and criminal issues.  Trying to sue to block would not be worth the bad press it would engender, especially considering the unlikelihood of getting the sanctions overturned.  They will probably take their lumps and be glad that the program didnt get shut down.

[theohall]

Good, they took down the statue in front of the stadium.  

Bullshit!  Paterno reported to his superiors.  His superiors covered the shit up as proved in several emails.  So the answer is to punish the public figure???  WTF are they doing to the asshats who actually covered it up?  WTF are their names????  Does anyone know without looking it up on the internet?????

The asshats ABOVE Paterno are culpable and we are not hearing SQUAT about them, in spite of the fact Paterno reported it to them and THEY did nothing.  Why aren't THEY being lambasted in the media with their names posted everywhere????

BS - on bashing the one person who CANNOT respond due to being dead.

[Isgrimnur]

Paterno convinced his superiors to cover it up:

Paterno was a legendary figure, not only at Penn State but in sports itself, and his power and influence at Penn State was extraordinary. It’s now clear that he was the one who stopped the university from reporting Sandusky to the police. The original plan was to inform the police, but the athletic director explicitly said in an email that after a discussion with Paterno, he had changed his mind.

[Nonnahob]

While I don't think this is Paternos fault entirely, from the information presented it does sound like he could have done more. Being a father, anything less than making sure that what was reported to him never happened again is not doing enough for me.

Paterno should not be a scapegoat. You're right in that his superiors need to be held accountable as well. They, having been informed of what happened, are no more or less responsible for this happening repeatedly.

I feel for the students and the athletes there who are suffering for crimes that they had no part in, but I believe without putting incredibly harsh sanctions on the school (im fine with a 5-10 year "death" penalty) the administration won't take this seriously enough.

[gellar]

Good, they took down the statue in front of the stadium. 

Bullshit!  Paterno reported to his superiors.  His superiors covered the shit up as proved in several emails.  So the answer is to punish the public figure???  WTF are they doing to the asshats who actually covered it up?  WTF are their names????  Does anyone know without looking it up on the internet?????

The asshats ABOVE Paterno are culpable and we are not hearing SQUAT about them, in spite of the fact Paterno reported it to them and THEY did nothing.  Why aren't THEY being lambasted in the media with their names posted everywhere????

BS - on bashing the one person who CANNOT respond due to being dead.

Holy fuck.

[hepcat]

Wow.  

The Freeh report clearly shows that Paterno interfered with the proper steps that should have been taken with Sandusky...and was aware of at least some of Sandusky's atrocities.  How anyone can claim he was almost blameless is incomprehensible at this point.  I suspect that hall simply has not read any of the damning reports that include actual evidence proving this.

As for the others, they don't have statues and buildings named after them.  If they did, I'm sure they'd be in storage or had their names changed by now as well.

[naednek]

Its a shame that the current students/players ade being punished for something they were ne er involved in.

[pr0ner]

Good, they took down the statue in front of the stadium. 

Bullshit!  Paterno reported to his superiors.  His superiors covered the shit up as proved in several emails.  So the answer is to punish the public figure???  WTF are they doing to the asshats who actually covered it up?  WTF are their names????  Does anyone know without looking it up on the internet?????

The asshats ABOVE Paterno are culpable and we are not hearing SQUAT about them, in spite of the fact Paterno reported it to them and THEY did nothing.  Why aren't THEY being lambasted in the media with their names posted everywhere????

BS - on bashing the one person who CANNOT respond due to being dead.

Holy fuck.

VRWC.

[CeeKay]

the sanctions:

The sanctions by the governing body of college sports, which capped eight months of turmoil on the central Pennsylvania campus, stopped short of delivering the ''death penalty'' of shutting down the sport. But the NCAA hit Penn State with $60 million in fines, ordered it out of the postseason for four years, and will cap scholarships at 20 below the normal limit for four years. The school also will be on probation for five years.

Any current or incoming football players are free to immediately transfer and compete at another school.

''Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people,'' NCAA President Mark Emmert said as he announced the penalties at a news conference in Indianapolis.

The sanctions all stem from the case of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, who was convicted last month of sexually abusing 10 boys over 15 years. An investigation commissioned by the school and released July 12 found that Paterno, who died in January, and several other top officials at Penn State stayed quiet about accusations against Sandusky in 1998 and 2001.

The NCAA ruling holds the entire school community accountable for failing to protect children.

''Against this backdrop, Penn State accepts the penalties and corrective actions announced today by the NCAA,'' Penn State President Rodney Erickson said in a statement. ''With today's announcement and the action it requires of us, the University takes a significant step forward.''

The Big Ten announced that Penn State would not be allowed to share in the conference's bowl revenue during the NCAA's postseason ban, an estimated loss of about $13 million. And the NCAA reserved the right to add additional penalties.

and there is more, the vacating of wins since 1998 will take Paterno out of the record books for some things:

By vacating 112 Penn State victories from 1998-2011, the sanctions cost Paterno 111 wins. Former Florida State coach Bobby Bowden will now hold the top spot in the NCAA record book with 377 major-college (FBS) wins. Former Grambling State coach Eddie Robinson holds the record for Division I-AA (FCS) wins with 408, while Saint John's John Gagliardi has the most wins of any coach in college football history with 484. Paterno, who was fired days after Sandusky was charged, will be credited with 298 wins.

[Isgrimnur]

The backlash begins:

Meanwhile, a group called Penn Staters for Responsible Stewardship, issued a statement Monday that, in part, blamed the Board for the NCAA's severe punishment.

"To rely upon such a report to issue punishment is beyond reckless, and should not be supported in any way by the leadership of Penn State," said the group. "By agreeing to these sanctions, every single member of the Penn State Board of Trustees has blatantly failed in their fiduciary responsibilities to the University. With each passing hour, we are gaining additional alumni support in our demand to have them resign immediately."

[gellar]

''Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people,'' NCAA President Mark Emmert said as he announced the penalties at a news conference in Indianapolis.

Hahahahahhahaha.  Hahahahahahahhaahahahaha.

[hepcat]

I'm guessing they left the "until next month" out of the speech.  I think it was in the draft, though.

[rshetts2]

While I understand the reasoning regarding vacating the wins, I think it is wrong of the NCAA.  This is not an athletic incident, there was no in game cheating or bending of any rules pertaining to those wins.  I would be fine about it if they had "removed"  them from Paternos record but to punish so many hard working and hard playing student athletes, for something they had no responsibility for, by invalidating all of those games is wrong. 

[Isgrimnur]

Invalidating wins is a bookkeeping thing.  No player in the NFL is all of a sudden going to have his contract reduced because the wins he got in college were suddenly vacated.  And Paterno's name will still come up anytime the flapping heads in sports media talk about winningest coaches in college football.

[gellar]

The wins is the one thing I actually like in the sanctions.  Most everything else is bullshit.

[Harkonis]

While I understand the reasoning regarding vacating the wins, I think it is wrong of the NCAA.  This is not an athletic incident, there was no in game cheating or bending of any rules pertaining to those wins.  I would be fine about it if they had "removed"  them from Paternos record but to punish so many hard working and hard playing student athletes, for something they had no responsibility for, by invalidating all of those games is wrong. 

It was a game thing in the long run though.  He covered up the incident to keep a staff member on that affected game wins and losses.  Sandusky being there or not being there and the lack of a media frenzy when it first popped up helped them achieve wins they may have not had otherwise

[ATB]

Glad the university is getting blasted.  Not sure about the wins thing tho...

[Gratch]

I'm perfectly OK with the ruling, and actually think it's somewhat lenient.  The only people I feel bad for are the lower to mid-level players (i.e. those not likely to get picked up elsewhere) who are getting caught up in all this.

[Jiffy]

I'm perfectly OK with the ruling, and actually think it's somewhat lenient.  The only people I feel bad for are the lower to mid-level players (i.e. those not likely to get picked up elsewhere) who are getting caught up in all this.

2nd and 3rd string players will now get bumped up into the now vacant spots. The team will be terrible, but those players will actually be given more of a chance to show off their skills. The lower to mid-level players of other schools might suffer though, in the case that a top-level player is brought in from Penn for their position.

I'm good with the ruling as well. I actually fully agree with the wiping of the wins - removes vestiges of a tainted legacy. It doesn't harm past players or anything, but it does at least officially wipe out people naming Paterno as one of the greatest ever, and seeing his name in the record books.

[CeeKay]

they almost had a 4 year ban on football:

Penn State faced a multiyear shutdown of its football program had it not agreed with the sanctions imposed by the NCAA earlier this week, university President Rodney Erickson told ESPN.

The football program at Penn State faced a four-year "death penalty," a complete cessation of football activities, Erickson said, according to the ESPN report, as well as fines well in excess of the $60 million levied.

The four-year death penalty option was confirmed by NCAA President Mark Emmert, who said in a separate interview with ESPN that what the network termed "a core group of NCAA school presidents" had agreed on the unprecedented sanctions.

Once Penn State learned of the NCAA intentions, school officials engaged in five days of secret discussions with the NCAA that resulted in the penalties announced Monday, ESPN reported. Those include the record $60 million fine, a four-year postseason ban, a four-year reduction in football scholarships and five years of probation. Penn State also was forced to vacate its football victories since 1998, including 111 by the late coach Joe Paterno.

Penn State's board of trustees was not involved in those negotiations, and some members had expressed anger at not being allowed a vote on whether to approve the agreement with the NCAA, according to ESPN. But in a statement Wednesday night, the board said based on the alternative, it would abide by the agreement.

[gellar]

Well at least one positive comes out of this.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story/_/id/8219810/silas-redd-spurns-penn-state-nittany-lions-heading-usc-trojans

[leo8877]

Well at least one positive comes out of this.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story/_/id/8219810/silas-redd-spurns-penn-state-nittany-lions-heading-usc-trojans

I'm surprised more people didn't go.

[Gratch]

Well at least one positive comes out of this.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story/_/id/8219810/silas-redd-spurns-penn-state-nittany-lions-heading-usc-trojans

Christ, like SC needed more running backs.

[gellar]

That's actually the one thing we did need!

Had a 3,500 yard QB, two 1,000 yard receivers, but just ONE 1,000 yard rusher.  For shame.  Now we have two.  Phew.  Problem solved.