[Penn State Saga] Sandusky Convicted - Sanctions Declared

[hepcat]

The timing of his death is unfortunate.  Supporters will see the whole Sandusky thing and the public scandal as the real cause of death and it will probably make many of them bitter.  It was just a coincidence but it's going to engender a lot of hard feelings.

[Purge]

Folks will go to amazing lengths to not believe the worst about someone they love.  Look at Purge and Ceekay, for instance.

Yeah... we still visit GT even though hep is here.

[hepcat]

Folks will go to amazing lengths to not believe the worst about someone they love.  Look at Purge and Ceekay, for instance.

Yeah... we still visit GT even though hep is here.

It took you 2 months to come up with that?   

[Caine]

go easy on him hep.  he is canadian after all.

[Purge]

Folks will go to amazing lengths to not believe the worst about someone they love.  Look at Purge and Ceekay, for instance.

Yeah... we still visit GT even though hep is here.

It took you 2 months to come up with that?   

No, I didn't see it back in November. I was ignoring you back then.

[Purge]

go easy on him hep.  he is Canadian after all.

FTFY.

[hepcat]

Folks will go to amazing lengths to not believe the worst about someone they love.  Look at Purge and Ceekay, for instance.

Yeah... we still visit GT even though hep is here.

It took you 2 months to come up with that?   

No, I didn't see it back in November. I was ignoring you back then.

Whoa there, speedy.  Pace yourself.  You sure you don't wanna delete that reply and take a few more weeks to come up with something?

[Purge]

Folks will go to amazing lengths to not believe the worst about someone they love.  Look at Purge and Ceekay, for instance.

Yeah... we still visit GT even though hep is here.

It took you 2 months to come up with that?   

No, I didn't see it back in November. I was ignoring you back then.

Whoa there, speedy.  Pace yourself.  You sure you don't wanna delete that reply and take a few more weeks to come up with something?

Your mother, Trebek.

[hepcat]

See, there's a perfect example of why you shouldn't rush your replies, my man.  

[Purge]

So... JoePa is dead, shortly after being fired. 61 years of dedication, one REALLY BAD judgement call, and now his efforts in his "experiment" where football players should also be able to pass exams is tainted.

I feel horrible for the kids affected too - in the end it wasn't JoePa who did something wrong - he erred in doing not enough.

[hepcat]

While I could be entirely wrong, I have this nagging doubt that a bad judgement call was the sole sin on Paterno's part.  College football, especially in a dynasty like Penn State, is a huge business.  It almost single handedly supports schools like that at times.  I can't help but wonder if perhaps Paterno wasn't actually guilty in some way of not doing enough with reports on Sandusky (and let's face, there's more than enough evidence to support the assertion that Sandusky was suspected of doing some pretty horrible things by a lot of folks) because he didn't want to taint his own reputation and that of the school that enabled him to build that reputation.

Granted, I think his deeds for the most part were noble and a refreshing change of pace for college sports, but if he had anything at all to do with downplaying what was going on at that school, then he himself is the one that has damaged the charge to bring accountability and ethics back to college sports.

[Purge]

I can see your point, but I don't see how any measure of truth is going to come out of this with the only person who could answer that being dead.

Conjecture about whether he was protecting a dynasty over protecting kids is just as valid as being leery of Sandusky enough so to agreeing to ban him from being around kids.

[hepcat]

I can see your point, but I don't see how any measure of truth is going to come out of this with the only person who could answer that being dead.

this, as you note, effectively makes all discussions about the matter purely speculative.

[Purge]

On an unrelated topic: Where's Zeke?

[hepcat]

On an unrelated topic: Where's Zeke?

In his pants?

[Purge]

On an unrelated topic: Where's Zeke?

In my pants?

Blunt.

[hepcat]

Bazinga!

[kratz]

... in the end it wasn't JoePa who did something wrong - he erred in doing not enough.

Huh?  'Not doing enough' in this instance is unquestionably doing something wrong.

[Purge]

... in the end it wasn't JoePa who did something wrong - he erred in doing not enough.

Huh?  'Not doing enough' in this instance is unquestionably doing something wrong.

If Sandusky hadn't been doing what he did, Joe would have no responsibility or culpability. He is not the principal of the crime, and saying he is is wrong. The guy who saw it, or ANYONE who heard of it and didn't report to the law had failed those kids in protecting them - but they are not the predator, simply the ones who stood by while something terrible happened.

*That* was my point.

But, since it is unquestioningly wrong, why are you not calling for the head of the guy who walked in on the shower to be up on charges as a potential accessory? He waited a day and told his boss, rather than reporting a rape to the authorities who actually had jurisdiction to actually DO something about it? What about the people above JoePa? Where is their responsibility in this?

[hepcat]

Many folks here have said that mcqueary is even more reprehensible than paterno.  This isn't about degrees of culpability or even responsibility though.   Some folks believe paterno did something wrong and pointing a finger at those who you believe did worse things during this abhorrent crime does not mitigate that in any way.  

[rshetts2]

The timing of his death is unfortunate.  Supporters will see the whole Sandusky thing and the public scandal as the real cause of death and it will probably make many of them bitter.  It was just a coincidence but it's going to engender a lot of hard feelings.

While its not the cause of his death, I do believe the situation, including his firing accelerated the time table.  If youve ever had cancer in your family, you'd know that mental strength and the will to live is almost as important as physical strength in beating cancer.  While it may have been inevitable, I dont believe his death at this time is coincidental.

[hepcat]

While the situation he was in may have weakened him, he was still a man in his eighties with cancer.  The cancer was not a direct result of the scandal.  I still view it as mostly bad luck.

[Purge]

Many folks here have said that mcqueary is even more reprehensible than paterno.  This isn't about degrees of culpability or even responsibility though.   Some folks believe paterno did something wrong and pointing a finger at those who you believe did worse things during this abhorrent crime does not mitigate that in any way. 

You are correct - it doesn't mitigate some peoples feelings.

[kratz]

... in the end it wasn't JoePa who did something wrong - he erred in doing not enough.

Huh?  'Not doing enough' in this instance is unquestionably doing something wrong.

If Sandusky hadn't been doing what he did, Joe would have no responsibility or culpability. He is not the principal of the crime, and saying he is is wrong. The guy who saw it, or ANYONE who heard of it and didn't report to the law had failed those kids in protecting them - but they are not the predator, simply the ones who stood by while something terrible happened.

*That* was my point.

But, since it is unquestioningly wrong, why are you not calling for the head of the guy who walked in on the shower to be up on charges as a potential accessory? He waited a day and told his boss, rather than reporting a rape to the authorities who actually had jurisdiction to actually DO something about it? What about the people above JoePa? Where is their responsibility in this?

Anyone who knew about it and did nothing and/or 'not enough' is wrong.  My comment wasn't Paterno exclusive.

[CeeKay]

figured I might as well put this here since it is where all the talk about Jerry Sandusky took place:

Sandusky Convicted of 45 Counts.

[Eel Snave]

Good.

[Crusis]

Today on Real time with Bill Mahar he said something like "I'll say this for guys on death row. They sure know how to treat a child molester."

[rshetts2]

the minimum sentence is 60 year and the max is over 400.  If upheld Sandusky will, rightfully, never see the outside of a prison until the day he dies.  Unfortunately, they have already stated that there will be an appeal.  This is likely just beginning.
 Im interested on what grounds the appeal is being founded on.  AFAIK, you cant appeal simply because you didnt like the outcome, so there must be some grounds for Sandusky's lawyers to base an appeal on.  The victims of Sanduskys crimes shouldnt have their closure put on hold on a whim, so I hope the appeal is denied unless there are serious grounds for it.  Everyone does have the right to a fair trial, if Sandusky has already received one then they need to sentence and put him away.

[Teggy]

The lawyers were on CNN and they said their most likely route of appeal would be the testimony of someone who told the janitor's story. IANAL but the issue seemed to be some differing of opinion in the case law about the admission of hearsay. They also mentioned they were never granted any continuances, so they didn't have enough time to go over the all the discovery materials. Most of CNN's lawyers said the likelihood of a court taking on the appeal was pretty slim.

[CeeKay]

Sandusky has been 'obliterated' from a Penn State mural of local heroes.

Jerry Sandusky's image was blotted out of a mural depicting local heroes at the Penn State Student Book Store in November. Since then, a blue ribbon denoting child-sexual-abuse awareness has occupied his empty chair. But "with just the blue ribbon there, you still saw Sandusky," mural creator Michael Pilato says. Now he's filling that seat with a far more worthy occupant: Dora E. McQuaid, a poet, activist and Penn State alum who's won awards for her work on behalf of victims of domestic and sexual violence. Pilato has also added a blue ribbon around the neck of the Nittany Lion, the school's mascot, featured at the bottom of the mural.

[leo8877]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/07/12/penn-state-free-report-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0

So the report from former FBI director Louis Freeh is out and says that all the top people at Penn State knew since 1998 and didn't report it.

[CeeKay]

opinion piece:Penn State should get death penalty

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212

We can never make that mistake again. No more half measures.

Nothing is going to stop Penn State or anybody else in big-time college athletics from taking a route that is protect-the-brand, CYA and immoral. So we — NCAA, fans, impartial observers — must intervene.

Everything that has happened to Penn State so far is a half measure. And I do not believe in half measures for child rapists or institutions that harbor them. Neither should you.

What is a full measure, you ask.

The death penalty, as delivered by the NCAA, is a good starting point. I used to believe this was too harsh. After listening to those boys testify and then reading details in the Freeh reports like Sandusky having special seats to Paterno’s record-breaking game in 2011 and an email from then-athletic director Tim Curley saying, after talking with Paterno, he no longer believed reporting Sandusky to child authorities was the right course of action, I have changed my mind.

The football program needs to go away for a while.

[hepcat]

Paterno's family is still trying to pass the blame around to everyone BUT Paterno.  Honestly, with the wealth of evidence presented in that report to the contrary, they should just quietly disappear for a while (if not forever).  Paterno isn't the only one to blame.  Not by any stretch of the imagination.  But he certainly went out of his way to bury the truth when it threatened to harm his dynasty.

[Soulchilde]

Penn State should suspend the football for a season before this gains Death Penalty traction

[Sarkus]

I don't favor the death penalty or even lesser sanctions in this case.  Mainly because I don't see the point.  There are two arguments that could be made.  First, to penalize.  Second, to send a message.

If we are penalizing, then who are we penalizing in this case?  The school president, AD, coach, and a VP are gone.  The Freeh report does not identify anyone else as being involved in these horrible decisions.  Those guys (other then Paterno, obviously) are facing further criminal charges.  And the school is facing deservedly massive lawsuits from potentially ten or more victims.  Since Penn State is a public university, that money is either going to come from the school, its alumni, and/or the taxpayers of Pennsylvania.  So there is already plenty of penalty going around.  Killing or weakening the football program means less money to pay out to the victims.

If we are sending a message, then how do sanctions or death penalties make it any more clear how stupid this kind of behavior then the above penalties?  If what has happened at Penn State does not force everyone involved in college athletics to already reconsider their behavior, then adding sanctions or even a death penalty will not sway them either.

[Eel Snave]

The football program should get the death penalty. If the entire football program including the AD and university trustees aided and abetted a child molester, why should they get to keep their football program?

[Sarkus]

The football program should get the death penalty. If the entire football program including the AD and university trustees aided and abetted a child molester, why should they get to keep their football program?

Go read the Freeh report.  There are four people who knew what was going on.  Four.  They are all gone.  If the trustees did know, if there were other people involved in the cover-up who knew what was happening, then I could see the point.  But as far as we know, only those four guys knew about this. 

And you say "they" but don't define who you mean by that.  What did the students, the academic staff, the alumni, etc., have to do with any of this?   People seem to want to cast a very wide net with the penalties in this case. 

[gellar]

Absolutely not to the death penalty.  It punishes a huge amount of people who literally had nothing to do with this.

[Purge]

The only thing it does is sets an example of how the NCAA is willing to tank a program if there is harm coming to students/players.

It's a good message, but I don't think the staff and students of PSU need further punishment - considering they aren't the culprits.

Seizing assets, and throwing those accountable in jail, and having REAL WORLD RAMIFICATIONS to the ones in the cover-up makes the most sense.

[Turtle]

It's probably helping with the clean up efforts to have this threat of the death penalty hanging over them to make sure all those responsible get outed.