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Author Topic: [Penn State Saga] Sandusky Convicted - Sanctions Declared  (Read 4795 times)
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CeeKay
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« on: November 09, 2011, 03:47:09 PM »

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Joe-Paterno-to-retire-as-Penn-State-head-coach-110911

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Penn State football coach Joe Paterno has decided to retire at the end of the season, according to a person familiar with the decision.

The person said Paterno will announce his retirement later Wednesday.

The person spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity because the decision has yet to be announced.

Paterno has been besieged by criticism since former defensive coordinator and one-time heir apparent Jerry Sandusky was charged over the weekend with molesting eight young boys between 1994 and 2009. Athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz have been charged with failing to notify authorities after an eyewitness reported a 2002 assault.

Paterno decided to retire at age 84, in the middle of his 46th season with the Nittany Lions. He won 409 games, a record for major college football, but now, the grandfatherly coach known as "Joe Pa," who had painstakingly burnished a reputation for winning "the right way," leaves the only school he's ever coached in disgrace

sad to see him go like this.  I've been missinjg OSU's football games this year due to lack of time, but I may need to try and catch the final time we'll play him (and watch him steamroll Not-Tressel).
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 03:49:34 PM »

Something like this makes it pretty obvious what was most important to him.  If he was such a great coach to teach integrity to his players, why was he unable to show it in the face of one of his coaches acting in a heinous manner?
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 03:54:51 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 09, 2011, 03:49:34 PM

Something like this makes it pretty obvious what was most important to him.  If he was such a great coach to teach integrity to his players, why was he unable to show it in the face of one of his coaches acting in a heinous manner?

From what I've read, he was told that one of his former assistant coaches did something "inappropriate" by a graduate assistant.  He didn't witness the act nor was told in detail what it was.  He reported it immediately to security and his AD.  I can understand the outrage if he was told in detail what happened and/or witnessed the act itself and didn't call the cops.  But he did report it to all the correct people and trusted them to do the right thing.  I understand they didn't do the right thing, but where exactly did JoePa go wrong here?
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 04:01:06 PM »

He didn't do anything wrong, but he didn't do anything right either.  In this case, that's almost as bad.

It's questionable as to whether or not he was informed of the details of Sandusky's heinous crimes (the graduate assistant who reported it is saying that he did tell Paterno the ugly details), but even if he was just told "hey, Sandusky was fondling a 10 year old boy in the showers" that should have been more than enough to cause Paterno to get Sandusky the hell out of there for good...as well as inform that police when he realized that Penn state officials weren't going to do anything about it).  But he didn't (and let's face facts:  Paterno is the REAL power behind the athletics department at Penn State...bar none) and Sandusky was seen in the facilities as late as a week before his arrest.

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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 04:01:37 PM »

When I was a manager, my people were my responsibility.  If I needed help from higher ups to investigate/resolve an issue, I could seek help, but I was still involved and usually the one taking direct actions.  

I thought the whole society of a football team was that the head coach was THE BOSS to everyone below him, especially since most of them bring their personnel with him.  If all he did was hand it off to the people above him and leave it at that, I consider him to be a poor manager.  We'll never know the specifics of what he did or didn't know for sure, but he's still this guy's boss and should have been involved.  Reports to higher ups about issues like this shouldn't be a black hole and a hand washing.  
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 04:25:03 PM »

If you've been friends with someone for decades, you get a report of some inappropriate activity, you refer it to the appropriate authorities for investigation and they come back and say it was nothing, are you going to go digging around yourself?  Or are you going to tend to trust the word of your friend and the authorities you reported the matter to?  Or are you going to go make a federal case out of it?  In retrospect is was a bad call, but it's not necessarily his fault that his trust was betrayed.  

If it comes out that he actively hindered the investigation, then that's a different story.  If he knew the investigation was a sham, then that's a problem.  If he was told about multiple incidents, then that's an issue.  But as it stands today, I just don't see where JoePa is at fault for being something other than human.  He knew this guy (Sandusky) for decades and was his friend.  Someone reported an incident in the shower and he immediately turned around and immediately reported this to his AD and campus security (and when you live on-campus, those are THE COPS).  When they came back and said it wasn't anything, it'd be nothing more than human nature to then continue on with life as it was before.

Again, this is assuming the above facts are correct.  But yours aren't, Ingrimnur.  He wasn't Sandusky's boss anymore.  He certainly wasn't the boss of campus security either.
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 04:32:27 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 09, 2011, 04:25:03 PM

If he was told about multiple incidents, then that's an issue.

It's an issue.

And to think for one second that Paterno wasn't the boss of Sandusky and pretty much the entire athletic department at Penn State in everything but name just shows you don't know much about Penn State football.   icon_wink
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 04:34:24 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 09, 2011, 04:32:27 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on November 09, 2011, 04:25:03 PM

If he was told about multiple incidents, then that's an issue.

It's an issue.

And to think for one second that Paterno wasn't the boss of Sandusky and pretty much the entire athletic department at Penn State in everything but name just shows you don't know much about Penn State football.   icon_wink

Sandusky had already retired.  How was Joe his boss again?
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 04:38:54 PM »

Okay, he wasn't the boss.  But Paterno has say over who's allowed in and who's not.  

I've learned over the years that my outlook on things of this nature.  Because my mantra is, "Best friend or worst enemy, you're not worth my job".  

I've had people that were my friends before I worked with them.  I've had employees with which I was very friendly.  But when something comes up that was a serious violation, as much as I hated to do it, I still hit them with paperwork.  If you screw up, it's on you.  And once I know about it, it's my job to handle it.

If a stapler goes missing, handle it in house.  If a laptop missing goes missing, you involve the police.  If a felony assault occurs, you damned sure call the cops.  If my bosses disagree and want to handle it in-house, I tell them I'm calling the cops anyway.
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 04:43:16 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 09, 2011, 04:34:24 PM

Quote from: hepcat on November 09, 2011, 04:32:27 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on November 09, 2011, 04:25:03 PM

If he was told about multiple incidents, then that's an issue.

It's an issue.

And to think for one second that Paterno wasn't the boss of Sandusky and pretty much the entire athletic department at Penn State in everything but name just shows you don't know much about Penn State football.   icon_wink

Sandusky had already retired.  How was Joe his boss again?

1) he was Sandusky's boss during the initial complaint.

2) Sandusky was showing up at the facility as late as a week before his arrest.

If i see a coworker raping a 10 year old boy in his office, I'm going to report it to the police.  The graduate assistant reported it to HIS boss (Paterno), which I don't agree with.  Setting that aside, Paterno should have raised a stink when he saw that Sandusky wasn't getting in any trouble whatsoever after that report (and the others).  Everyone's accountable, in my opinion.  That's why two others have already resigned.
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 04:45:53 PM »

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke



He had a moral obligation to do more than just report it to the AD


ESPN link to the grand jury summary  I must warn you that it is a very difficult to read.  I had to stop after several pages.  It just reminds me that there are some very REAL monsters in this world
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 05:13:41 PM »

He should be fired now. Not given a goodbye tour.
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 05:14:03 PM »

I can't believe this guy hasn't been fired yet.  Legacy schmegacy...he knew about child rape and didn't tell the cops. 
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 05:18:26 PM »

I know I'm probably reading more into this than I should given my bias against Paterno, but this part of his statement irritated me because it seems like he's saying "don't fire me before i can retire!" and comes across as if he doesn't believe he actually did anything wrong worth punishment.

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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 05:23:11 PM »

In hind sight its easy to throw blame at Paterno but in reality, he did what he was supposed to do and was told that things were investigated and handled.  The other point here is that by reporting this to the AD, unless Paterno had reason to believe that the AD would just bury it, he did in effect report it to the proper authorities.  This will tarnish Paternos career and reputation, there no doubt of that.  Still, unless Paterno believed the hearsay and was actively covering up for Sandusky then all hes guilty of poor judgement. Something weve all been guilty of, especially when involving friends.  If they can find he was covering for Sandusky, then they should throw the book at Paterno because he was in effect aiding and abetting criminal sexual conduct involving a minor.  Still, I would like to see proof of that before I see Paterno crucified to satiate a public opinion lynch mob.
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2011, 05:27:08 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on November 09, 2011, 05:23:11 PM

In hind sight its easy to throw blame at Paterno but in reality, he did what he was supposed to do and was told that things were investigated and handled.  The other point here is that by reporting this to the AD, unless Paterno had reason to believe that the AD would just bury it, he did in effect report it to the proper authorities.  This will tarnish Paternos career and reputation, there no doubt of that.  Still, unless Paterno believed the hearsay and was actively covering up for Sandusky then all hes guilty of poor judgement. Something weve all been guilty of, especially when involving friends.  If they can find he was covering for Sandusky, then they should throw the book at Paterno because he was in effect aiding and abetting criminal sexual conduct involving a minor.  Still, I would like to see proof of that before I see Paterno crucified to satiate a public opinion lynch mob.

According to si, he could potentially face criminal charges

I don't care anything about Paterno.  I don't follow college ball.  The guy who saw it happen, should have put a stop to it immediately and called the police.  Since he did not, but he did tell it to JoePa, Paterno should have called the police. Since he didn't, the AD should have called the police.  Since he didn't, the president should have called the police.  Institutional blind eye turning is sickening.

That whole organization needs to be rooted out and those involved prosecuted.
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2011, 05:51:43 PM »

The scope of the crime is what moves it beyond the analogy rshetts is using.  While that's a purely subjective line that's being crossed, I still feel comfortable in saying that the line has been crossed in my opinion.
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 06:25:33 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 09, 2011, 05:27:08 PM

Quote from: rshetts2 on November 09, 2011, 05:23:11 PM

In hind sight its easy to throw blame at Paterno but in reality, he did what he was supposed to do and was told that things were investigated and handled.  The other point here is that by reporting this to the AD, unless Paterno had reason to believe that the AD would just bury it, he did in effect report it to the proper authorities.  This will tarnish Paternos career and reputation, there no doubt of that.  Still, unless Paterno believed the hearsay and was actively covering up for Sandusky then all hes guilty of poor judgement. Something weve all been guilty of, especially when involving friends.  If they can find he was covering for Sandusky, then they should throw the book at Paterno because he was in effect aiding and abetting criminal sexual conduct involving a minor.  Still, I would like to see proof of that before I see Paterno crucified to satiate a public opinion lynch mob.

According to si, he could potentially face criminal charges

I don't care anything about Paterno.  I don't follow college ball.  The guy who saw it happen, should have put a stop to it immediately and called the police.  Since he did not, but he did tell it to JoePa, Paterno should have called the police. Since he didn't, the AD should have called the police.  Since he didn't, the president should have called the police.  Institutional blind eye turning is sickening.

That whole organization needs to be rooted out and those involved prosecuted.

I agree that they need to get to the bottom of this.  Im just saying that they shouldnt crucify Paterno without more to go on.   By the way the SI article is an opinion piece and saying that Paterno could face criminal charges is as valid as saying he could not face criminal charges.  Its reactionary at best.  The fact is there are a whole lot of people who could face charges here, singling out Paterno is sensationalism, not journalism.  There is not one fact in that piece that says Paterno should face charges.  I dont say this to defend Paterno.  If hes guilty of covering for Sandusky he deserves to be charged.  I just think right now the press and a lot of the pubic is being a bit quick to railroad Paterno.  Take a deep breath and wait for the facts to come out.   
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2011, 06:31:47 PM »

He should be fired.  Now.  Immediately.  There is no excuse for his inaction in this matter.
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2011, 06:47:34 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on November 09, 2011, 06:25:33 PM

Quote from: ATB on November 09, 2011, 05:27:08 PM

Quote from: rshetts2 on November 09, 2011, 05:23:11 PM

In hind sight its easy to throw blame at Paterno but in reality, he did what he was supposed to do and was told that things were investigated and handled.  The other point here is that by reporting this to the AD, unless Paterno had reason to believe that the AD would just bury it, he did in effect report it to the proper authorities.  This will tarnish Paternos career and reputation, there no doubt of that.  Still, unless Paterno believed the hearsay and was actively covering up for Sandusky then all hes guilty of poor judgement. Something weve all been guilty of, especially when involving friends.  If they can find he was covering for Sandusky, then they should throw the book at Paterno because he was in effect aiding and abetting criminal sexual conduct involving a minor.  Still, I would like to see proof of that before I see Paterno crucified to satiate a public opinion lynch mob.

According to si, he could potentially face criminal charges.  

I don't care anything about Paterno.  I don't follow college ball.  The guy who saw it happen, should have put a stop to it immediately and called the police.  Since he did not, but he did tell it to JoePa, Paterno should have called the police. Since he didn't, the AD should have called the police.  Since he didn't, the president should have called the police.  Institutional blind eye turning is sickening.

That whole organization needs to be rooted out and those involved prosecuted.

I agree that they need to get to the bottom of this.  Im just saying that they shouldnt crucify Paterno without more to go on.   By the way the SI article is an opinion piece and saying that Paterno could face criminal charges is as valid as saying he could not face criminal charges.  Its reactionary at best.  The fact is there are a whole lot of people who could face charges here, singling out Paterno is sensationalism, not journalism.  There is not one fact in that piece that says Paterno should face charges.  I dont say this to defend Paterno.  If hes guilty of covering for Sandusky he deserves to be charged.  I just think right now the press and a lot of the pubic is being a bit quick to railroad Paterno.  Take a deep breath and wait for the facts to come out.  


Normally, I would be with you here. but he knew something happen between Sandusky a 58yr old man and a minor boy. They was naked in the shower together.  The then graduate coach in the grand jury summary said he told Joepa it appeared he was having sex with this young boy.  Joepa has stated that he was told that Sandusky was fondling the young man.  All Joepa did was wait to the next day to call the AD.  That's it.. Fin.  His job was done in his mind.


The problem is that Joepa is/was the face the Penn St. football and has preached "Success with honor"  well where was this honor when he found out.  When he saw Sandusky still rolling around the campus and the locker room did he just assume "something" was done?    

The outrage I have personally is that it appears all he was concerned about was protecting the "program"  

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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2011, 06:51:31 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on November 09, 2011, 06:47:34 PM


Normally, I would be with you here. but he knew something happen between Sandusky a 58yr old man and a minor boy. They was naked in the shower together.  The then graduate coach in the grand jury summary said he told Joepa it appeared he was having sex with this young boy.  Joepa has stated that he was told that Sandusky was fondling the young man.  All Joepa did was wait to the next day to call the AD.  That's it.. Fin.  His job was done in his mind.


The problem is that Joepa is/was the face the Penn St. football and has preached "Success with honor"  well where was this honor when he found out.  When he saw Sandusky still rolling around the campus and the locker room did he just assume "something" was done?    

The outrage I have personally is that it appears all he was concerned about was protecting the "program"  


This. Every single word. He doesn't wish that he had done more. He wishes it would have never come up again and bit him and his precious football program in the ass. While he's not the one that was physically assaulted these children, his inaction allowed for it to continue to happen to several more kids. That is inexcusable, reprehensible and unforgivable.
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2011, 06:53:01 PM »

So it looks like he's being allowed to stay on the rest of the season and retire at the end.  Madness!!
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2011, 06:54:09 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on November 09, 2011, 05:23:11 PM

In hind sight its easy to throw blame at Paterno but in reality, he did what he was supposed to do and was told that things were investigated and handled.  The other point here is that by reporting this to the AD, unless Paterno had reason to believe that the AD would just bury it, he did in effect report it to the proper authorities.  This will tarnish Paternos career and reputation, there no doubt of that.  Still, unless Paterno believed the hearsay and was actively covering up for Sandusky then all hes guilty of poor judgement. Something weve all been guilty of, especially when involving friends.  If they can find he was covering for Sandusky, then they should throw the book at Paterno because he was in effect aiding and abetting criminal sexual conduct involving a minor.  Still, I would like to see proof of that before I see Paterno crucified to satiate a public opinion lynch mob.

Don't be reasonable when there's a lynch mob afoot.  It's unbecoming.

After all, Joe should have immediately believed something bad about a friend of 30+ years that he didn't witness.  Hell, he should have called the National Guard in and led the manhunt himself.  There's just no excuse why he exercised a bit of caution after being told a tale by someone who didn't think enough about the incident to step in themselves, call the police or even contact Joe immediately.  It's all Joe's fault that he wasn't clairvoyant enough to see the cover-up by his superiors after immediately reporting it to them.  Hell, he let the guy into Penn State two weeks before he was charged...why didn't he know he was going to be charged and keep him out!?!  He should be fired immediately and the record books expunged of any mention of Joe Paterno.  Damn him!!!
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2011, 07:04:15 PM »

Wow, you're kind of an ass, blackadar.  There was no need to be such an ass in response to posts that weren't directly assaulting you, and I never would've expected it, but I guess that was giving you too much credit.

You've read the numerous reasons why Paterno was in the wrong.  You've never chosen to actually go out and read the police reports or the informed comments of the authorities involved, so I'll just go ahead and chalk this up to some good old fashioned trolling on your part.

The alternative to your strident defense of Paterno's actions is a little too shocking to consider.

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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2011, 07:08:41 PM »

Sorry, I removed my last post because it was a little too pointed...

I guess a more reasonable response to Blackadar would be that if someone were to approach me about a similar situation, I would do more than just report it. He was told one of his coaches was having sex/fondling a child in the school shower. Regardless of how long you've known the person, that's a very serious accusation, and he should have done more than the minimum requirements to follow-up on it.

There is nothing that can be said or done to make it 'okay'.
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« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2011, 07:13:59 PM »

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The other point here is that by reporting this to the AD, unless Paterno had reason to believe that the AD would just bury it, he did in effect report it to the proper authorities.

i think the point is that the only reason this IS reported to the AD instead of the proper authorities (ah, the police) is specifically BECAUSE it was to be buried.  frankly i dont think the grad student comes off much better

its like when your buddy kills a hooker at a hotel in vegas, if you call fredo gambini the hotel manager instead of the police, youre probably not looking for the kind of justice that hookers parents and family deserve.  youre probably asking for a hole in the desert
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« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2011, 07:41:42 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 09, 2011, 07:04:15 PM

Wow, you're kind of an ass, blackadar.  There was no need to be such an ass in response to posts that weren't directly assaulting you, and I never would've expected it, but I guess that was giving you too much credit.

You've read the numerous reasons why Paterno was in the wrong.  You've never chosen to actually go out and read the police reports or the informed comments of the authorities involved, so I'll just go ahead and chalk this up to some good old fashioned trolling on your part.

The alternative to your strident defense of Paterno's actions is a little too shocking to consider.

Actually, I did read the police report during lunch.  There's nothing to offer there.  I'm not sorry that my post pointed out the flaws in your logic (OMG, he showed up two weeks before he was arrested!!!) and the various knee-jerk reactions I've seen posted here and other places.  I've truly enjoyed much of the false logic and poor comparisons spoken here ("If i see a coworker raping a 10 year old boy in his office"), but please continue with your lynch mob angst.  That you take offense means that perhaps my point hits a bit close to home, eh?
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« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2011, 07:46:47 PM »

No, it just means I'm surprised at you.  I had always assumed your were a fairly intelligent human being.  To see those assumptions stripped away so rapidly is a little disconcerting...and sad.   icon_cry

That you continuously fail to understand even the simplest of points presented by the authorities who also spoke up about Paterno's failings, repeatedly fail to grasp the reason Sandusky's presence on campus that recently is actually important, or any other of the most basic concepts of the numerous complaints about his actions in this scandal is also disappointing. 

If I have a friend of 30 plus years and that friend is accused of raping a child in a shower by someone who works under me and I think they're falsely accusing said friend, I don't turn around and give the accuser a promotion...which is what happened here.

I honestly doubt you've actually devoted any time to looking into the details of this if you keep overlooking things like that.
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« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2011, 07:59:55 PM »

I suppose it isn't surprising that such a charged topic brings out a bit of tension but lets try to keep is civil and stick to the code like good pirates...wait that is a movie line...anyway try to remember we are all friends.
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« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2011, 08:00:55 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 09, 2011, 07:46:47 PM

No, it just means I'm surprised at you.  I had always assumed your were a fairly intelligent human being.  To see those assumptions stripped away so rapidly is a little disconcerting...and sad.   icon_cry

What, that I'm waiting until all the facts come out to pass judgement?  Oh Heavens forbid! 

I guess it's easier to just join the lynch mob.    Torches and Happiness!

Well, I tried, but you didn't take it seriously.  frown  *sniff*

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« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2011, 08:07:18 PM »

You've proven my point.  Thanks.
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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2011, 08:16:25 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 09, 2011, 08:07:18 PM

You've proven my point.  Thanks.

I'm so glad I could reaffirm your assumption that I'm a fairly intelligent human being.  My mind is at ease now.

Now I need to return to doing something productive for a bit, but please feel free to continue to pass judgements and make assumptions.  It seems to be your modus operandi today.
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« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2011, 03:29:21 AM »

AP reporting he's been fired.  Thank God.
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« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2011, 03:31:07 AM »

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7214380/joe-paterno-president-graham-spanier-penn-state


Yes he has been fired, I am amazed that the university did the right thing and fired him.   I was sure they would let him go on his own terms at the end of the year.
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« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2011, 03:31:09 AM »

Quote from: Darkstar One on November 10, 2011, 03:29:21 AM

AP reporting he's been fired.  Thank God.

Probably had to be done, but I suspect that when all is said and done it may not be quite as black and white regarding Paterno specifically as it may seem now.  

Hard not to see the talk of federal investigations being a spur to getting the board to finally start cleaning house.
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« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2011, 05:54:52 AM »

And now rioting in Happy Valley.

Quote from: GregDoyel of CBSSports.com
There are 20,000 people in the world who don't understand Joe Pa had to go. And they're on Beaver St, tipping cars.
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« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2011, 12:04:22 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 09, 2011, 06:54:09 PM

Quote from: rshetts2 on November 09, 2011, 05:23:11 PM

In hind sight its easy to throw blame at Paterno but in reality, he did what he was supposed to do and was told that things were investigated and handled.  The other point here is that by reporting this to the AD, unless Paterno had reason to believe that the AD would just bury it, he did in effect report it to the proper authorities.  This will tarnish Paternos career and reputation, there no doubt of that.  Still, unless Paterno believed the hearsay and was actively covering up for Sandusky then all hes guilty of poor judgement. Something weve all been guilty of, especially when involving friends.  If they can find he was covering for Sandusky, then they should throw the book at Paterno because he was in effect aiding and abetting criminal sexual conduct involving a minor.  Still, I would like to see proof of that before I see Paterno crucified to satiate a public opinion lynch

Don't be reasonable when there's a lynch mob afoot.  It's unbecoming.

After all, Joe should have immediately believed something bad about a friend of 30+ years that he didn't witness.  Hell, he should have called the National Guard in and led the manhunt himself.  There's just no excuse why he exercised a bit of caution after being told a tale by someone who didn't think enough about the incident to step in themselves, call the police or even contact Joe immediately.  It's all Joe's fault that he wasn't clairvoyant enough to see the cover-up by his superiors after immediately reporting it to them.  Hell, he let the guy into Penn State two weeks before he was charged...why didn't he know he was going to be charged and keep him out!?!  He should be fired immediately and the record books expunged of any mention of Joe Paterno.  Damn him!!!

You do reailize this is the second time these allegations have been brought forth to Penn State.  The first time happened in 98.  No charges were brought forth for whatever reason but Paterno definitley knew what was going on because Sandesky was told he was no longer allowed to bring kids on campus but for some reason was still allowed to keep his office and have full access to the facilities.  This is all common knowledge to anyone who has looked into.  Kind of surprised you did not know this since you took the time to read the police report.  Lastly even joe has admitted he did not do enough.
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« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2011, 01:14:51 PM »

As an aside, I do feel badly for flying off the handle yesterday.  I was having a bad day (Skyrim was still over 24 hours away from unlocking), but I should still know better than to let someone get my goat.  It's the internet, folks are always going to try and annoy people, but I should have been the bigger man and just let it go. 

Now that Skyrim is so close to unlocking, I'm feeling a bit better so I would like to say sorry to folks who saw me stooping to that level.

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« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2011, 01:39:23 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 09, 2011, 04:01:37 PM

When I was a manager, my people were my responsibility.  If I needed help from higher ups to investigate/resolve an issue, I could seek help, but I was still involved and usually the one taking direct actions.  

I thought the whole society of a football team was that the head coach was THE BOSS to everyone below him, especially since most of them bring their personnel with him.  If all he did was hand it off to the people above him and leave it at that, I consider him to be a poor manager.  We'll never know the specifics of what he did or didn't know for sure, but he's still this guy's boss and should have been involved.  Reports to higher ups about issues like this shouldn't be a black hole and a hand washing.  

But he's not a manager in a business sense. He's a football coach. About two years ago, we fired an assistant soccer coach for having a relationship with one of her players. The head soccer coach wasn't held responsible, and wasn't involved in the process in any way beyond being asked what he knew about her indiscretions. Most Athletic Directors are going to get information from their coaches, not involve them in the firing of employees unless there is reason to do so. I had to fire the coach of the swim team once as Associate AD - nobody from the swimming program was involved, and I know when anyone gets in trouble, it isn't broadcast for all to know about. Heck I still don't tell people why the swim coach was fired and that was years ago now.
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« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2011, 02:31:01 PM »

Joepa is not just another coach.  He is Penn State University and is/was the most powerful coach in college footbal.  You are miataken if you think his input would not be taken into account on any firings.
I'm sure your swimming program is nice but comparing it to a multi million dollar footbal factory is not accurate. 
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