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Author Topic: Is there more than one Godzilla?  (Read 1767 times)
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dbt1949
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« on: November 10, 2009, 03:14:33 AM »

I was watching Godzilla:Tokyo SOS on Netflix. They have this giant Mechagodzilla and it's frame is evidently made from the bones of Godzilla. None the less Tokyo gets attacked by Godzilla again. The prime Minister says "That must be another Godzilla!"
WTF?
This is a sequel to  Mechagodzilla vs Godzilla that was made not too long ago. From the flashbacks I gathered they retrieved the bones from the original Godzilla out of  Tokyo Bay (from the very first Raymond Burr movie).
Is it true? Are there more than one or two Godzillas out there?  eek


BTW this is a Godzilla movie but it does have much better special effects than any other I've ever seen. Pretty good for a giant monster movie.
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2009, 03:43:49 AM »

I'm no expert on the official Godzilla canon, but from what I gather they eventually decided(?) that there may be multiple Godzillas, partially because the one that was in the 1998 US Godzilla movie was sort of disowned as being the real Godzilla (they now refer to it as Zilla).  Zilla actually shows up again in Godzilla: Final Wars.

BTW, I think Tokyo SOS was one of my favorite of the recent Godzilla movies. 
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2009, 03:46:06 AM »

I had no idea there was more than one.
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2009, 03:57:22 AM »

Well, there was that baby godzilla, so he must have grown up sometime.
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2009, 04:56:50 AM »

There is only the one Godzilla. All others are pretenders. GINO's, if you will. If you get the chance, watch the original un-Raymond Burr'd version of "Gojira." It is stunning how serious, scary, and emotionally devastating it is. It was only a few years after the bombs dropped and this was a way for the film makers to deal with it. I was literally blown away by it when you factor in the historical context. There's no argument the later installments grew progressively sillier (though the last one "Godzilla Final Wars" is nine kinds of awesome), the first one is very serious, frightening, and deeply sad.
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2009, 05:11:06 AM »

Godzilla goes by other names. When I was a kid my parents had an 8 mm projector. Other than home movies, we had the Keystone Cops, Fatty Arbuckle, the 3 Stooges...and Varan the Unbelievable. The beleaguered citizens of Tokyo would be hard pressed to tell Varan from Godzilla. (I wore that film out because I loved playing with the projector -- it was not one of those newfangled Super 8 self-threading jobs).
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dbt1949
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2009, 05:36:18 AM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on November 10, 2009, 04:56:50 AM

There is only the one Godzilla. All others are pretenders. GINO's, if you will. If you get the chance, watch the original un-Raymond Burr'd version of "Gojira." It is stunning how serious, scary, and emotionally devastating it is. It was only a few years after the bombs dropped and this was a way for the film makers to deal with it. I was literally blown away by it when you factor in the historical context. There's no argument the later installments grew progressively sillier (though the last one "Godzilla Final Wars" is nine kinds of awesome), the first one is very serious, frightening, and deeply sad.

I have the original one too but use Raymond Burr to show which Godzilla I was talking about.
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2009, 07:36:11 AM »

Never seen a godzilla movie, but I DID see one about a giant turtle that attacked Tokyo...they've been through a lot over the years.

I've never thought of their love for giant monster attacks being somehow connected to how WWII ended for them though...interesting
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2009, 01:11:53 PM »

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 10, 2009, 05:36:18 AM

Quote from: whiteboyskim on November 10, 2009, 04:56:50 AM

There is only the one Godzilla. All others are pretenders. GINO's, if you will. If you get the chance, watch the original un-Raymond Burr'd version of "Gojira." It is stunning how serious, scary, and emotionally devastating it is. It was only a few years after the bombs dropped and this was a way for the film makers to deal with it. I was literally blown away by it when you factor in the historical context. There's no argument the later installments grew progressively sillier (though the last one "Godzilla Final Wars" is nine kinds of awesome), the first one is very serious, frightening, and deeply sad.

I have the original one too but use Raymond Burr to show which Godzilla I was talking about.

I think the DVD of Gojira also have the Burr version on it?

I'm actually hoping my six year old would be up for it, but it may still be too intense for her.  We almost did Frankenstein this year, but she was too intimidated.  I realize now we should have done King Kong.  I'll see if I can sneak that one in soon.
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2009, 03:30:23 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2009, 01:11:53 PM

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 10, 2009, 05:36:18 AM

Quote from: whiteboyskim on November 10, 2009, 04:56:50 AM

There is only the one Godzilla. All others are pretenders. GINO's, if you will. If you get the chance, watch the original un-Raymond Burr'd version of "Gojira." It is stunning how serious, scary, and emotionally devastating it is. It was only a few years after the bombs dropped and this was a way for the film makers to deal with it. I was literally blown away by it when you factor in the historical context. There's no argument the later installments grew progressively sillier (though the last one "Godzilla Final Wars" is nine kinds of awesome), the first one is very serious, frightening, and deeply sad.

I have the original one too but use Raymond Burr to show which Godzilla I was talking about.

I think the DVD of Gojira also have the Burr version on it?

I'm actually hoping my six year old would be up for it, but it may still be too intense for her.  We almost did Frankenstein this year, but she was too intimidated.  I realize now we should have done King Kong.  I'll see if I can sneak that one in soon.

bah, cut to the chase and go for Poltergeist.
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2009, 07:28:45 PM »

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 10, 2009, 03:14:33 AM

I was watching Godzilla:Tokyo SOS on Netflix. They have this giant Mechagodzilla and it's frame is evidently made from the bones of Godzilla. None the less Tokyo gets attacked by Godzilla again. The prime Minister says "That must be another Godzilla!"
WTF?
This is a sequel to  Mechagodzilla vs Godzilla that was made not too long ago. From the flashbacks I gathered they retrieved the bones from the original Godzilla out of  Tokyo Bay (from the very first Raymond Burr movie).
Is it true? Are there more than one or two Godzillas out there?  eek


BTW this is a Godzilla movie but it does have much better special effects than any other I've ever seen. Pretty good for a giant monster movie.

Godzilla movies are really wonky on their continuity.

  The Godzilla from the first movie, "Godzilla King of the Monsters" aka Gojira, the original 1954 B&W film, is killed at the end of the movie.  His bones are seen on the sea floor.

The next 14 films from 1955's Godzilla Raids Again, AKA Gigantis the Fire Monster,  through 1975's Terror of MechaGodzilla, feature a second Godzilla. These films pretty much stick to a rough continuity.   He ends a movie buried in ice, and starts the next one emerging from an iceberg.  The first 15 movies are commonly referred to as the Showa series.


It gets a bit confusing when Toho, the movie studio that owns the rights to Godzilla decided to bring him out of retirement for Godzilla 1985 AKA the Return of Godzilla.    For this one, the studio decided to ignore all previous films except the 1954 original.   Compounding matters is Raymond Burr reprising his role from that film making the claim that this is actually the same Godzilla from the first movie because "they never found a body",  despite the fact that we clearly see a body at the end of the movie.

Godzilla 1985 was followed by six more films starting with Godzilla vs Biollante in 1989,  and ending with Godzilla vs Destroyah in 1995.   These films are known as the Heisei series and do a good job of sticking to a continuity.         At the end of Godzilla vs Destroyah,   Godzilla suffers a nuclear meltdown and dies.      This was based on a Toho decision to again retire Godzilla and to hand the property off to the Americans who it was thought would produce an American series of Godzilla movies.      However,   also at the end of that movie, the radiation from Godzilla's meltdown has mutated Godzilla Junior into a full grown, new,  Godzilla,  who it was thought, would have his own series of films, but was never seen again.

The next Godzilla film was the American version.  But the less said about him(her? it?),  the better.


Disapointed with the the American Zilla,  Toho once again rebooted their franchise with 1999's Godzilla 2000 starting what came to be known as the Millennium series.  Continuity once more went out the window,  and all previous films except maybe the 1954 original were ignored.

The following film  Godzilla vs Megaguirus (2000)  really takes a wrecking ball to the continuity by stating that this film's Godzilla attacked Japan in 1954, 1966, and 1996, everytime the Japanese came up with a new energy source.  The storylines from every previous film, including the previous year's Godzilla 2000 and the original 1954 film are ignored. 


Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-out Attack, released in 2001,  rewrote the backstory yet again!    Now Godzilla was not only a giant dinosaur mutated by nuclear radiation but also a collection of tormented souls of World War II dead. HAH!  Take that, established backstory!  He's a completely different monster from any of the previous incarnations.  The 1954 original is referenced, as well as a joke line about an attack by a giant monster on New York in 1998, that the Japanese are emphatic was not Godzilla.  Mothra, King Ghidorah, and Baragon,   monsters from previous films, are featured in this movie, but also have their origins completely changed.  They're now Spirit Guardians of Japan. 

This brings us up to 2002's Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla.   The backstory has been rewritten again.  Ignore all previous Godzilla movies except the 1954 original (and maybe 1961's Mothra and 1968's War of the Gargantuas, since they show up in stock footage and are mentioned to have attacked Japan).     The original 1954 Godzilla's corpse was recovered and a giant Godzilla robot was built around the bones and spinal cells of the dead monster.   Although the film is titled Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla, the robot is called Kiryu in the movie.   

In a rare change of pace,  2003's  Godzilla-Tokyo S.O.S is actually a direct sequel to Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla  with no new continuity retconned in like the previous movies.


The last Godzilla movie to date,   2004's  Godzilla-Final Wars, is Toho's 50th anniversary Godzilla film.   Apparently, they decided to just go back to the continuity from the Showa series,  bringing back almost all the monsters from the first 15 films, plus the American Zilla.  Stock footage from the original Showa movies are used to setup the story where Japan and the World have been attacked by giant monsters since the 50's.

So how many Godzillas are there?    It depends on which movie you are watching.   In Godzilla-Tokyo S.O.S,  there are two.  The dead 1954 original, and the live one in the film.


Also, anyone interested in seeing Godzilla movies can find them over at crackle.com.  They've got several, including Godzilla-Final Wars,  streaming ala Hulu.
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dbt1949
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 08:46:37 PM »

That was very interesting. Thank you. thumbsup
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 09:12:58 PM »

Godzilla 2000: Good lord, that was fun to watch and MST3K in the theater. 
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 10:14:12 PM »

Wow, Flatlander hits it out of the park. Great post, thanks for the info!
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 12:37:01 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on November 10, 2009, 10:14:12 PM

Wow, Flatlander hits it out of the park. Great post, thanks for the info!

I am both proud and ashamed of my knowledge of Godzilla movies.
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dbt1949
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 12:57:21 AM »

A god among geeks.
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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 01:40:22 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on November 10, 2009, 03:30:23 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on November 10, 2009, 01:11:53 PM

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 10, 2009, 05:36:18 AM

Quote from: whiteboyskim on November 10, 2009, 04:56:50 AM

There is only the one Godzilla. All others are pretenders. GINO's, if you will. If you get the chance, watch the original un-Raymond Burr'd version of "Gojira." It is stunning how serious, scary, and emotionally devastating it is. It was only a few years after the bombs dropped and this was a way for the film makers to deal with it. I was literally blown away by it when you factor in the historical context. There's no argument the later installments grew progressively sillier (though the last one "Godzilla Final Wars" is nine kinds of awesome), the first one is very serious, frightening, and deeply sad.

I have the original one too but use Raymond Burr to show which Godzilla I was talking about.

I think the DVD of Gojira also have the Burr version on it?

I'm actually hoping my six year old would be up for it, but it may still be too intense for her.  We almost did Frankenstein this year, but she was too intimidated.  I realize now we should have done King Kong.  I'll see if I can sneak that one in soon.

bah, cut to the chase and go for Poltergeist.

And she will forever be terrified of clowns. The scariest thing in the movie.  paranoid
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2009, 01:58:01 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on November 10, 2009, 07:36:11 AM

Never seen a godzilla movie, but I DID see one about a giant turtle that attacked Tokyo





?
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2009, 02:42:22 AM »

I'm a huge Godzilla fan as well.  And this my friends are two of the most awesome pictures of Godzilla I have ever seen.

This one:


Here's another one in this link to one of my favorite sites:  Toho Kingdom.  I could not copy the picture location.

http://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/images/godzilla07.html

It does not get any cooler than this.
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