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Author Topic: Indy IV: thoughts, reviews, spoilers galore!!  (Read 20627 times)
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Rumpy
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« Reply #120 on: May 27, 2008, 09:02:47 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on May 27, 2008, 06:59:50 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I guess I just don't like peanut butter in my chocolate, and I sure as hell don't like aliens in my Indiana Jones movie. I wish Lucas and Spielberg would both just get abducted and have 6 months of hardcore alien butt sex until they got it out of their system. I assume next we'll get Jurassic Park 4, DINOSAURS IN SPACE!!!

Actually, what I'd love is for Indy to discover that Dragons were really fire-breathing dinosaurs slywink
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« Reply #121 on: May 27, 2008, 09:06:32 PM »

Quote
You don't think there was anything else in the movie that evoked the 50s?

Quote
Awesome! So in the next movie they can set it in the late '60s and have Indy fight the Vietcong, solve the Manson family murders, and hang out at Woodstock! Because that's pretty much how blatant an era cash-in this was.

Both of you missed the point of my statement.  The 50s equivalent of pulp cinema was science fiction.  The original Indy movies were blatant era cash-ins as well (especially Last Crusade with Hitler signing the book in Berlin) and Spielberg and Lucas from the get-go said this was going to be a sci-fi pulp film.  
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« Reply #122 on: May 27, 2008, 09:32:46 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on May 27, 2008, 09:06:32 PM

Quote
You don't think there was anything else in the movie that evoked the 50s?

Quote
Awesome! So in the next movie they can set it in the late '60s and have Indy fight the Vietcong, solve the Manson family murders, and hang out at Woodstock! Because that's pretty much how blatant an era cash-in this was.

Both of you missed the point of my statement.  The 50s equivalent of pulp cinema was science fiction.  The original Indy movies were blatant era cash-ins as well (especially Last Crusade with Hitler signing the book in Berlin) and Spielberg and Lucas from the get-go said this was going to be a sci-fi pulp film. 

Well... not arguing for or against what you said, since I think the premise could've worked and my complaints were less about aliens and more about execution, but... just because someone says something is going to be X doesn't mean that X is a good idea...
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« Reply #123 on: May 27, 2008, 09:36:40 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on May 27, 2008, 07:07:39 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on May 27, 2008, 07:04:31 PM

Indy 1: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 2: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 3: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 4: several year old non-religious folklore

Huh? 
Spoiler for Hiden:
  I believe the movie says that the Crystal Skulls are several thousand years old and they are certainly religious folklore to the Incans. 

Spoiler for Hiden:
I believe what he has a problem with is the allusion that aliens may have created the Mayan empire, along with the Egyptian pyramids and the like. I agree with him. It kind of doesn't fit and seems lazy to write that off as Alien influence. That seems like giving up the complex questions about Earth's past. That's what Archeologists and Paleontologists are for; digging up the past. In this case, Indy seemed to have dug up the future which goes against the whole of Indy's purpose in general. He'd be out of a job.
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« Reply #124 on: May 27, 2008, 09:51:35 PM »

Quote from: Rumpy on May 27, 2008, 09:36:40 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on May 27, 2008, 07:07:39 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on May 27, 2008, 07:04:31 PM

Indy 1: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 2: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 3: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 4: several year old non-religious folklore

Huh? 
Spoiler for Hiden:
  I believe the movie says that the Crystal Skulls are several thousand years old and they are certainly religious folklore to the Incans. 


Spoiler for Hiden:
I believe what he has a problem with is the allusion that aliens may have created the Mayan empire, along with the Egyptian pyramids and the like. I agree with him. It kind of doesn't fit and seems lazy to write that off as Alien influence. That seems like giving up the complex questions about Earth's past. That's what Archeologists and Paleontologists are for; digging up the past. In this case, Indy seemed to have dug up the future which goes against the whole of Indy's purpose in general. He'd be out of a job.
Spoiler for Hiden:
What about Indy's comment referring to the aliens as archeologists when they found the room with all of the different artifacts from all over the world?  Not to mention as they enter the temple they first see imagery depicting sun-worship before they see imagery depicting the worship of the aliens.  I think all that was implied was a visitation that then influenced but not necessarily created the Mayan empire
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« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2008, 09:56:50 PM »

Complex questions about the Earth's past??  C'mon, I think you're looking for a different series since they've never addressed that previously.  I don't seem to recall Last Crusade dealing with the serious theological implications of Indy's discovery that Ark exists and has real powers!  Between that and his experience with the Grail then he should have been a professor at a seminary in Indy IV. 
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« Reply #126 on: May 27, 2008, 10:04:49 PM »

Question:

Spoiler for Hiden:
If Indy's dad drank from the cup of everlasting life, why is he dead?
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« Reply #127 on: May 27, 2008, 10:06:46 PM »

Quote from: kratz on May 27, 2008, 10:04:49 PM

Question:

Spoiler for Hiden:
If Indy's dad drank from the cup of everlasting life, why is he dead?

Answer:

Spoiler for Hiden:
the knight says that the "everlasting live" only lasts as far as the seal is in the entrance to the cave. The one that Elsa tries to take the cup past, which causes the cave to self-destruct. This is also why Indy is mortal and not living forever.
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« Reply #128 on: May 27, 2008, 10:11:14 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on May 27, 2008, 09:51:35 PM

Quote from: Rumpy on May 27, 2008, 09:36:40 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on May 27, 2008, 07:07:39 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on May 27, 2008, 07:04:31 PM

Indy 1: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 2: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 3: 1000+ year old religious folklore
Indy 4: several year old non-religious folklore

Huh? 
Spoiler for Hiden:
  I believe the movie says that the Crystal Skulls are several thousand years old and they are certainly religious folklore to the Incans. 


Spoiler for Hiden:
I believe what he has a problem with is the allusion that aliens may have created the Mayan empire, along with the Egyptian pyramids and the like. I agree with him. It kind of doesn't fit and seems lazy to write that off as Alien influence. That seems like giving up the complex questions about Earth's past. That's what Archeologists and Paleontologists are for; digging up the past. In this case, Indy seemed to have dug up the future which goes against the whole of Indy's purpose in general. He'd be out of a job.
Spoiler for Hiden:
What about Indy's comment referring to the aliens as archeologists when they found the room with all of the different artifacts from all over the world?  Not to mention as they enter the temple they first see imagery depicting sun-worship before they see imagery depicting the worship of the aliens.  I think all that was implied was a visitation that then influenced but not necessarily created the Mayan empire


Mayans != Incas.  Indy IV dealt with the Incas.
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« Reply #129 on: May 27, 2008, 10:33:45 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on May 27, 2008, 10:11:14 PM

Mayans != Incas.  Indy IV dealt with the Incas.

I agree with the first sentence, but as for the second I could've sworn the movie specifically named the Mayans as the ancient civilization of choice.

Quote from: th'FOOL on May 27, 2008, 09:06:32 PM

Quote
You don't think there was anything else in the movie that evoked the 50s?

Quote
Awesome! So in the next movie they can set it in the late '60s and have Indy fight the Vietcong, solve the Manson family murders, and hang out at Woodstock! Because that's pretty much how blatant an era cash-in this was.

Both of you missed the point of my statement.  The 50s equivalent of pulp cinema was science fiction.  The original Indy movies were blatant era cash-ins as well (especially Last Crusade with Hitler signing the book in Berlin) and Spielberg and Lucas from the get-go said this was going to be a sci-fi pulp film.

If you like the idea of abandoning what made the first three movies Indiana Jones movies and having new ones completely absorb the pulp cinema of the decade they're set in, then sure, Crystal Skull is spot on.  Wait, I take it back.  Crystal Skull had too many daring heroic escapes and over-the-top villains for the 50s; that stuff belongs in 30s film serials.

Indiana Jones wouldn't be Indiana Jones without the film serial feeling.  If there was an Indiana Jones movie set in the 2008, it should feel like a 30s film serial set in 2008 and not like a reality TV show or a youtube video or whatever our modern equivalent would be.

Besides, it's not like serials were nonexistent in the 50s: the Lone Ranger TV series aired from 1949-57.  Take the Indiana Jones formula, throw in some Soviet paranoia and some greaser culture and you've got the foundation for a great movie.  No aliens required.  If you think it needs the sci-fi of the period then throw in just as much as the amount of Flash Gordon they put in the first three.
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« Reply #130 on: May 27, 2008, 10:58:38 PM »

Quote from: lildrgn on May 27, 2008, 10:06:46 PM

Quote from: kratz on May 27, 2008, 10:04:49 PM

Question:

Spoiler for Hiden:
If Indy's dad drank from the cup of everlasting life, why is he dead?

Answer:

Spoiler for Hiden:
the knight says that the "everlasting live" only lasts as far as the seal is in the entrance to the cave. The one that Elsa tries to take the cup past, which causes the cave to self-destruct. This is also why Indy is mortal and not living forever.

I thought that you just couldn't take the cup past the seal... but I guess your version jives better with the overall story.  What a stupid prize.
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Rumpy
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« Reply #131 on: May 27, 2008, 11:10:46 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on May 27, 2008, 09:56:50 PM

Complex questions about the Earth's past??  C'mon, I think you're looking for a different series since they've never addressed that previously.

Well, this is a series about an Archeologist, so yes, I think I'd expect it from it. While it may never have addressed it, I consider it something that doesn't necessarily have to be spoken or mentioned, but be something that's been thought about. Some of the greatest things in our universe are things that are the unexplained.
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« Reply #132 on: May 27, 2008, 11:11:32 PM »

Quote from: kratz on May 27, 2008, 10:58:38 PM

I thought that you just couldn't take the cup past the seal... but I guess your version jives better with the overall story.  What a stupid prize.

My interpretation was that it's just the cup that couldn't go past the seal, but you had to repeatedly drink from the cup to keep living--it wasn't a one sip deal.  That's a lot to drink over the centuries, and that's why they put all those false grails in the room to fill up. slywink
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« Reply #133 on: May 28, 2008, 02:22:59 AM »

So, I've come to realize that the Borg invaded Earth sometime in the past as far as Indy 4 is concerned (and no, I haven't read anywhere if this has been stated before - I just saw the movie tonight):

Spoiler for Hiden:
As they stated, the aliens work together as a hive mind, aren't as powerful alone, and can travel in the space between space. Thus, they are the Borg. Go figure.

All in all, it was by far the worst of the 4 Indy movies. It just seemed 'wrong' in so many places. Here's to hoping there won't be an Indy 5.
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« Reply #134 on: May 28, 2008, 02:40:37 AM »

After thinking about it for the last day, I still hate it. I hate it a hell of a lot, so much so that I grew actively pissed when I passed a theater showing it today. The reason for my fury? I really want the poster, but I hate the movie so much that I am furious.
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« Reply #135 on: May 28, 2008, 12:57:02 PM »

I liked the movie for the action popcorn flick that it was, a return to the characters I loved as a kid. I have to agree about the "over the top" criticism though. In the first 3 movies there were maybe a 3 or 4 times per movie where things got a little silly or unbelievable but I just shrugged it off and enjoyed the ride (saying to myself that it could be possible...hehe). This movie had that in spades, there seems way to many things going on where you have to shut off the believablity factor in your brain to have a good time, at least more then the other movies. The vine swinging part just as a small example. I dont know...maybe its just me getting older...but it did distact somewhat from the movie though I did think it lives up to Indy as a whole. I give it 7 tentacles outa 10.

Dave

Oh...and can someone tell me how indy survived the u-boat trip in Raiders, I had the impression that the u-boat dove underwater (I could be wrong here) shortly after getting underway to the Island...its always kinda bugged me...
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 12:59:25 PM by Davidbld » Logged
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« Reply #136 on: May 28, 2008, 01:06:31 PM »

Quote from: Davidbld on May 28, 2008, 12:57:02 PM

Oh...and can someone tell me how indy survived the u-boat trip in Raiders, I had the impression that the u-boat dove underwater (I could be wrong here) shortly after getting underway to the Island...its always kinda bugged me...

They usually don't submerge unless its for tactical reasons.
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« Reply #137 on: May 28, 2008, 01:36:08 PM »

The intention was that Indy lashed himself with his wip to the periscope.  This was filmed but not included in the final film (there are production photos of this out there), included in the Marvel comics adaptation, and if you look *really* closely you can actually see him in the shot of the U-boat approaching the island (ILM actually rigged up a little remote control Indy model on top of the periscope for that shot). 

Of course, as wonderpug notes, the reality is that it wouldn't have submerged if they didn't need to since subs back then were much quicker on the surface than submerged.  But that doesn't make it more plausible- the bridge will be manned while on the surface so Indy would have had to have hid himself below the conning tower which would have been a helluva feat avoiding getting washed overboard. 
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« Reply #138 on: May 28, 2008, 05:11:19 PM »

Speaking of the whip, Indy
Spoiler for Hiden:
only brandishes it 3 times in this movie! 3! Once to get the gun out of the commie's hand, once to swing on the light (both in the warehouse) and once to save Mac at the end. Also, he looked COMPLETELY LAME each time he whipped it out. Not natural at all. frown
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« Reply #139 on: May 28, 2008, 05:30:52 PM »

You missed at least one-
Spoiler for Hiden:

He uses it twice in the warehouse chase- once attempting to land in the trucks and then the other time off of the hood into the rafters.  The first one where he tries to swing into the vehicle looked COMPLETELY AWESOME but, then again, that was a stuntman.
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« Reply #140 on: May 28, 2008, 06:35:50 PM »

Didn't he just grab a light the second time?
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« Reply #141 on: May 28, 2008, 07:03:20 PM »

Quote from: kratz on May 28, 2008, 06:35:50 PM

Didn't he just grab a light the second time?

Yup.  Kevin Grey was blinded by his fanboyism. Tongue icon_lol
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« Reply #142 on: May 28, 2008, 07:18:11 PM »

A whip's kind of useless when you can be influenced by the psychic powers of interdimensional alien beings.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #143 on: May 28, 2008, 07:20:35 PM »

Quote from: kratz on May 28, 2008, 06:35:50 PM

Didn't he just grab a light the second time?

Doh!
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« Reply #144 on: May 28, 2008, 07:41:59 PM »

It's okay.  We've all blocked out large chunks of the movie.
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« Reply #145 on: May 28, 2008, 07:45:44 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on May 28, 2008, 07:18:11 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
A whip's kind of useless when you can be influenced by the psychic powers of interdimensional alien beings.  Roll Eyes

Dude, we get it:  you don't agree with the premise of the movie.  At least put it in a spoiler tag for those who may not have yet seen the movie.
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« Reply #146 on: May 28, 2008, 07:48:36 PM »

Dude, you don't get it: the thread title was changed a day or two ago to warn about spoilers. People got tired of using tags.   icon_biggrin
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 08:04:17 PM by YellowKing » Logged
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« Reply #147 on: May 29, 2008, 04:50:59 AM »

Just came back from the movie, we walked out before the movie ended. I'm all for exciting action sequences but these practically slap you in the face and call you a dumbass. The first thing to make me nervous was when Indy survives the bomb by closing himself into the refrigerator... I cringed. As the movie goes on the idiocy of the action sequences were to the point of being insulting, and once the ex-wife is introduced it spirals down from there. When they drove the jeep (or whatever that boat/jeep thing was) off the cliff onto the tree and landed into the river I stood up almost immediately, it was the straw. Too bad too because I was really enjoying Indy's character and Le Goof wasn't his normal annoying sarcastic self.
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« Reply #148 on: May 29, 2008, 05:10:45 AM »

It may have been mentioned earlier (or maybe I saw it somewhere else), but I think the fridge bit was intentionally played for laffs. You see this thing tumble over and over again and as soon as it stops, out pops Indy, with a gopher in front of him. Funny, right? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #149 on: May 29, 2008, 05:49:00 AM »

Laughs maybe, but it was there intentially to setup how ridiculous and pulpy the action would be in the film.

And just so people know, crystal skulls in the real world are pretty much fakes with fancy stories surrounding them.
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« Reply #150 on: May 29, 2008, 08:18:25 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on May 29, 2008, 05:49:00 AM

And just so people know, crystal skulls in the real world are pretty much fakes with fancy stories surrounding them.

Isn't that the same as holy grail? Or that the holy grail can cure sickness or make people become immortal aren't just fancy stories?

Or are there any holy grail out there that are not fakes?
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« Reply #151 on: May 29, 2008, 11:43:35 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on May 29, 2008, 08:18:25 AM

Or are there any holy grail out there that are not fakes?

I picked one up at a flea market once.  Unfortunately, I chose...poorly.
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« Reply #152 on: June 02, 2008, 06:25:56 AM »

Awesome movie, really liked it.  Was great to get another 2 hour romp with Indy.
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« Reply #153 on: June 02, 2008, 02:52:48 PM »

Saw this last night and quite enjoyed it.  It was great to see a new Indy movie.
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« Reply #154 on: June 08, 2008, 08:18:22 PM »

I just saw it today...it has its highs and lows.  It's entertaining at least, but nothing spectacular.

The good:
Spoiler for Hiden:
When they allowed Indy to be an archaeologist, the movie was pretty good.  The whole "life has passed by", the scene in the tomb and the general action in the jungle was fun.  The banter between Marion and Indy was spot-on, as was Indy's reaction to finding out he had a son.  Even though it was truly absurd, I liked the nuke testing piece.  It gave a great period feel to it, though I think they could have done a slightly more realistic story of how Indy escapes it.

The bad:
Spoiler for Hiden:
When the plot veered into the "truly absurd" territory (rather than "just absurd"), it lost course.  The triple waterfall and the Mud/Tarzan bit were a bit too much.  Anything involving the aliens was really kind of weird and the ending was unsatisfactory . Seriously, I kept thinking "The Arrival Meets The Mummy" - the alien comes back to life?  Bah!  I didn't get the whole "gift" thing either - what exactly was the gift and why would it be set up to harm them?
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« Reply #155 on: June 12, 2008, 02:52:10 AM »

Just as an aside, the Frank Darabont draft has leaked out and Paramount is doing their damndest to shut it down. It's dated 11/04/03 and it's 140 pages long. I'm only a little ways into it (yes, I have a copy and no I'm not linking to it so if you want it PM me or hit Google) and already it's way the hell better than what ended up on screen. Lucas carried the bits and pieces he liked throughout the years and tossed the rest. The result is the final movie which I describe as a Frankenstein's Monster because it cobbles all these bits and pieces together without adding a soul to it. But Darabont's draft was written by a genuine lover of all things Indiana Jones and it reads like it. I may review the whole thing when I'm done but no promises. smile
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« Reply #156 on: June 12, 2008, 07:13:09 AM »

This is the first movie I've ever considered leaving the theater in...

I mean, come on! The plot was non-existent, the actors were really, really bad, and seemed tired all the way through, and most of the scenes were there for no reason at all, other than to put indy in "omg-we're-going-to-die" reasons...

I wanted to like it, I really do, but although I like no-brains action flicks, I do like just a tiny bit of realism, something there was absolutely nothing off in this movie.

There was just no point to any of the things going on.

I could list all the horrible scenes (the freakin' monkeys???!?!?!?!??!?!?!  retard) but I wont, because it just makes me too sad.

This goes into my Highlander2 bin, for movies that doenst exist for me.

edit: sorry, I just HAVE to vent some more...worst scenes:

Spoiler for Hiden:
The monkey scene
The aliens
The nuclear-safe refrigiator
the lack of chemistry between the actors
Lack of story
absurdity of all that was going on
evil former friend
russian chick with a sword???why dear god does she wear a sword
Gifted aliens give "knowledge to indian tribe, who then proceeds to spend their life buried inside stone???
Gift to the ones who came back with the skull = death?
THE FREAKIN MONKEYS
2 hours of my life I will never get back!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 07:17:46 AM by Razgon » Logged

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« Reply #157 on: June 12, 2008, 07:34:57 AM »

Yup, I didn't think this could turn out worse than the Star Wars remakes but it did. Anything George Lucas touches turns to shit these days.
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« Reply #158 on: June 12, 2008, 02:19:37 PM »

After watching Indy 4, I went back and watched all 3 of the old ones and they all feel the same to me.  Enjoyable 2 hour romps that go beyond the real world.  I wonder if you guys just have too high of expectations of everything these days. 
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« Reply #159 on: June 12, 2008, 05:36:22 PM »

Wait, wait - so Indy survives things in this new movie that a normal person wouldn't actually be expected to survive by doing things that a normal person wouldn't possibly be able to do?

Gosh... that is strange.

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