Huge 8.9 quake hits Japan

[wonderpug]

If it can't be found online, I'm pretty sure I saved the file so I could put it up somewhere.

[Razgon]

Now non-japaneese governments have begun evacuating its citizens from Tokyo, due to the disaster. I really hope it doesnt come to this - if the japaneese citizens have to be evacuated as well, its going to be a massive undertaking.

This is one god-awful disaster

[kronovan]

holy fucking shit ground level view of the water plowing over a neighborhood.

A page ago.

This link is dead, anyone have a new one for this?

I'd read that CNN purchased it and I've since watched them air excerpts from it on TV, so it should be somewhere on their site.

What's gotten to me most about this catastrophe on the home front, is the run on Potassium Iodine tablets. People all along the West Coast are panicking and hoarding them and causing pharmacies to sell out. Worrying and panicking about radiation from those nuclear reactors in this corner of the world is about the stupidest thing I've heard of in some time. Some of our fellow North Americans just don't seem capable of not panicking at the slightest thing  - they really need to get a brain and take a cue from the Japanese.

[hepcat]

Sadly, I'm quite certain my mother will be sending me an email telling me I'd better stock up on these pills....and we both live in Midwestern states.

[kronovan]

Sadly, I'm quite certain my mother will be sending me an email telling me I'd better stock up on these pills....and we both live in Midwestern states.

Lol, that's even worse. 

[Teggy]

This is the video I saw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MR7u8xSr-8

[Destructor]

What's gotten to me most about this catastrophe on the home front, is the run on Potassium Iodine tablets. People all along the West Coast are panicking and hoarding them and causing pharmacies to sell out. Worrying and panicking about radiation from those nuclear reactors in this corner of the world is about the stupidest thing I've heard of in some time. Some of our fellow North Americans just don't seem capable of not panicking at the slightest thing  - they really need to get a brain and take a cue from the Japanese.

This is exactly what I'm seeing in my Arizona based pharmacy job. Frankly, people are stupid.

And for that matter, if a radioactive cloud travels 5 THOUSAND miles to affect us (we were bored at work and checked the distance from Phoenix Skyharbor Airport to Tokyo last night), we have FAR bigger problems to worry about.

You know, like the end of life on Earth as we know it.

And according to the same site, it's 3500 miles from Alaska and Hawaii (roughly) to Tokyo, Japan. And that's the closest US territory that I can think of. Still an astronomical distance.

[CeeKay]

Iodine and mre's. People are probably making a killing on those right now.

[kronovan]

Not to mention that an unnecessary rush on Iodine tablets in many of the NA states/provinces closest to Japan, means there'll be little or no supply that can be quickly sent if they're required for emergency relief. The BC government is at least on record as having bought up a certain portion of the local supply for possible radiation aid in Japan - albeit it's not a very large portion. Just a though, but if you know someone who's hoarding it, try and convince them to donate some of it.

[Isgrimnur]

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.

[JayDee]

Sadly, I'm quite certain my mother will be sending me an email telling me I'd better stock up on these pills....and we both live in Midwestern states.

My mother-in-law called my wife last night and told her to stock up on water and canned food "just in case, because you never know." And we live outside of Toronto.

Granted, my MIL is from Poland and lived there during the Chernobyl accident, but still.

[Alefroth]

And potassium iodide does nothing against Cesium-137.

Ale

[morlac]

Not to mention that an unnecessary rush on Iodine tablets in many of the NA states/provinces closest to Japan, means there'll be little or no supply that can be quickly sent if they're required for emergency relief. The BC government is at least on record as having bought up a certain portion of the local supply for possible radiation aid in Japan - albeit it's not a very large portion. Just a though, but if you know someone who's hoarding it, try and convince them to donate some of it.

i would not worry about this.  I'm pretty sure the US military has few warehouses full of the stuff if need be.

[morlac]

And potassium iodide does nothing against Cesium-137.

Ale

True but it greatly reduces the threat of thyroid cancer from Iodine 131 which is also being released.  Tons of studies after Chernobyl showed a huge statistical difference between folks who got the pills and folks who didn't in regards to thyroid cancer. 

[Tokek]

A touching story about a couple of dogs who are victims of the tsunami. It's in Japanese but the translation is provided on the bottom of the webpage:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/dog-in-japan-stays-by-the-side-of-its-ailing-friend-in-the-rubble

[Caine]

and even better if all these people start taking them now, just in case.  don't they know that it isn't a magic pill and should not be taken lightly? 

no no, better to be prepared against any possibility.  now, who wants to help start the rumor that godzilla has actually been spotted so we can get these hyper-reactive folks stocking up on my new anti-godzilla spray?

[Zekester]

This could actually be the way Godzilla is created.

Sweeeeet

[Larraque]

I'm really confused about the nuclear situation. Anyone else confused or just me? It feels like it's time to start panicking. Is it time? I kind of want to panic.

[The Grue]

I'm really confused about the nuclear situation. Anyone else confused or just me? It feels like it's time to start panicking. Is it time? I kind of want to panic.

Don't Panic!  Also, where is your towel?

[hepcat]

I'm really confused about the nuclear situation. Anyone else confused or just me? It feels like it's time to start panicking. Is it time? I kind of want to panic.

I work for a company that consults with utility companies and we have a nuclear division made up almost entirely of nuclear engineers and ex-navy nuclear sub folks.  the head of our nuclear division has been sending out daily updates from the NEI (Nuclear Energy Institute).  You can go to their site for updates on the situation in Japan.

That being said, I think there's currently a disconnect between the Japanese authorities and the NEI and other non-Japanese nuclear groups.  The NEI is reporting that reactor 4 is completely dry of cooling fluid (i.e.: VERY bad situation) while TEPCO (Tokyo Electric Power Company) is reporting that they still DO have cooling fluid in reactor 4.  Also, the US is advising our citizens to stay at least 50 miles away from the plants, while the Japanese authorities are advising their citizens to stay only 20 miles outside the perimeter.  My guess is that they're doing so to prevent widespread panic...but I think that's going to bite them in the ass soon.

Summary:  it's getting worse and worse by the hour.

edit:  as for panic, don't.  the only thing this will affect in the U.S. or anywhere else outside Japan is the economy.  areas outside the Pacific Rim are not going to suddenly be irradiated.   still, it's a horrible, horrible situation for the poor Japanese.  

[morlac]

I'm really confused about the nuclear situation. Anyone else confused or just me? It feels like it's time to start panicking. Is it time? I kind of want to panic.

The US head of the nuclear regulatory commission basically threw the Tokyo power company under the bus late yesterday.  Lot's half truths and misinformation out there.  Hard to separate fact from conjecture but I think it is safe to assume that the situation is at least slightly worse than the Japanese are letting on.



edit: too slow hepcat beat em to it.  I will add that the Japanese Gvt. seems to dependent on TEPCO at this point.  They are basically letting them run the show and appears they are getting all their info from them.  Not unlike BP and the big oil spill.

[Zekester]

I just heard the next 24-48 hours is critical.

So I guess it really is heading in the wrong direction.

[CeeKay]

That being said, I think there's currently a disconnect between the Japanese authorities and the NEI and other non-Japanese nuclear groups.  The NEI is reporting that reactor 4 is completely dry of cooling fluid (i.e.: VERY bad situation) while TEPCO (Tokyo Electric Power Company) is reporting that they still DO have cooling fluid in reactor 4.  Also, the US is advising our citizens to stay at least 50 miles away from the plants, while the Japanese authorities are advising their citizens to stay only 20 miles outside the perimeter.  My guess is that they're doing so to prevent widespread panic...but I think that's going to bite them in the ass soon.

looks like they have a history of not being open when it comes to nuclear power.

In 1989 Sugaoka received an order that horrified him: edit out footage showing cracks in plant steam pipes in video being submitted to regulators. Sugaoka alerted his superiors in the Tokyo Electric Power Co., but nothing happened — for years. He decided to go public in 2000. Three Tepco executives lost their jobs.

[Larraque]

Ok. So we're relatively safe state-side. What about japan. They're talking about a fifty mile radius (kind of large) but what happens to the japanese people who lived inside the exclusion zone? Is there any possibility of a larger scale incident?

I hear genuine concerns about radiation poisoning in Tokyo from CNN reporters, so I'm extremely worried about the people living there. I love the japanese culture and I'm so deeply saddened at what I'm seeing. I can't help but feel like I'm watching an empire fall.

[hepcat]

Unfortunately, I think all bets are off when it comes to the situation in Japan.  Unless a miracle occurs in the race to cool those reactors, I fear this may end up being more tragic than Chernobyl.  

[Bullwinkle]

I'm really confused about the nuclear situation. Anyone else confused or just me? It feels like it's time to start panicking. Is it time? I kind of want to panic.

Don't Panic!  Also, where is your towel?

 

[disarm]

Unfortunately, I think all bets are off when it comes to the situation in Japan.  Unless a miracle occurs in the race to cool those reactors, I fear this may end up being more tragic than Chernobyl.  

it would take a major change in events for this to turn out as bad as the Chernobyl incident.  even if they lose control and containment of all the sites in Japan, the radiation released won't spread over nearly the same amount of populated land as occurred at Chernobyl.  in that case, there was a massive explosion and prolonged fire that blew radiation into the upper atmosphere, which was then carried by weather patterns over a massive area as it returned to the ground.  there shouldn't be anything happen in Japan at this point that would spread contamination as high into the atmosphere.  as a result, there may be severe damage done at the ground level, but it should occur over a smaller area and without as much spread into populated areas.  i'm not saying it's a good situation, but what is happening in Japan is not the same kind of problem.

[Punisher]

I live in NJ and my wife keeps panicking over this.... I keep telling her to turn the news off, there is just about 0 chance of it affecting us.... I have also been having arguments with some friends who keep seeing the nuclear plant exploded and there has been nuclear explosions....

Still, very bad for Japan.... Anyone know if it's possible/likely for this to actually result in a nuclear explosion of some sort? I don't know enough about it... What's worst case?

[Ironrod]

Anyone know if it's possible/likely for this to actually result in a nuclear explosion of some sort? I don't know enough about it... What's worst case?

No, definitely not. It's actually rather difficult to make a nuclear bomb explode. The fissile material has to be the right size and shape to sustain a chain reaction, and it needs an explosive trigger designed to trigger one. Plus I think that bomb-grade uranium has to be enriched beyond power-grade, although I'm not positive about that.

I can't answer "worst case", but from what I've read even a total meltdown and complete loss of containment would be a major regional disaster at worst, confined to the 12-mile radius that Japan has evacuated (or the 50-mile radius that the US has warned American nationals about).

[kronovan]

Yup, no possibility whatsoever of this causing a nuclear explosion. On another note Japanese authorities have now upgraded the nuclear alert from 4 to 5, which in layman terms means a radioactive release or meltdown is imminent. Not looking good at all.

BTW anyway the title of this thread can be updated from "Huge 8.9 quake hits Japan" to "Huge 9.0 quake hits Japan"? There's so much incorrect information circulating that it would help a wee bit if the title at least stated the correct magnitude.

[hepcat]

Yeah, I was surprised the other day when I heard that they had upgraded the quake from 8.9 to 9.0.  That's just horrific.

[kronovan]

Yeah the ".1" increase may seem small, but because the Richter scale is logarithmic that's a significant increase in the order of magnitude.

[CeeKay]

262 aftershocks of 5.0 or greater have been recorded since the quake.

[CeeKay]

pop quiz hotshot:  you're in a car and about to be hit by a tsunami.  what do you do?

you record it on video of course.

[PR_GMR]

pop quiz hotshot:  you're in a car and about to be hit by a tsunami.  what do you do?

you record it on video of course.

I hereby nominate him for a Darwin Award. Did he survive?

[CeeKay]

pop quiz hotshot:  you're in a car and about to be hit by a tsunami.  what do you do?

you record it on video of course.

I hereby nominate him for a Darwin Award. Did he survive?

I'm guessing he did, otherwise the video probably would have been lost.

[Purge]

Richter Magnitude (approx)	Approximate TNT for Seismic Energy Yield	Joule equivalent	Example
6.70	168 kilotons	708 TJ	Northridge earthquake (California, USA), 1994 ($20B in damages)
7.00	474 kilotons	2.00 PJ	Java earthquake (Indonesia), 2009 Haiti earthquake, 2010
8.35	50 megatons	210 PJ	Tsar Bomba - Largest thermonuclear weapon ever tested
8.70	168 megatons	708 PJ	Eruption of Krakatoa (Indonesia), 1883
9.00	474 megatons	2.00 EJ	Lisbon earthquake (Portugal), All Saints Day, 1755

   

This is why my post went to 9.0 (that .1 is significant)

[Blackadar]

pop quiz hotshot:  you're in a car and about to be hit by a tsunami.  what do you do?

you record it on video of course.

I'm not sure what else you could do in that case.  That wave came out of nowhere.

[CeeKay]

pop quiz hotshot:  you're in a car and about to be hit by a tsunami.  what do you do?

you record it on video of course.

I'm not sure what else you could do in that case.  That wave came out of nowhere.

I'm wondering what kind of verhicle he was driving-  the camera is looks like it was mounted on something.

[Teggy]

Richter Magnitude (approx)	Approximate TNT for Seismic Energy Yield	Joule equivalent	Example
6.70	168 kilotons	708 TJ	Northridge earthquake (California, USA), 1994 ($20B in damages)
7.00	474 kilotons	2.00 PJ	Java earthquake (Indonesia), 2009 Haiti earthquake, 2010
8.35	50 megatons	210 PJ	Tsar Bomba - Largest thermonuclear weapon ever tested
8.70	168 megatons	708 PJ	Eruption of Krakatoa (Indonesia), 1883
9.00	474 megatons	2.00 EJ	Lisbon earthquake (Portugal), All Saints Day, 1755

   

This is why my post went to 9.0 (that .1 is significant)

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how do you measure the magnitude of a quake from the 1700s?