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Author Topic: Hot Coffee Opinion Piece  (Read 2828 times)
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Zarkon
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« on: July 14, 2005, 04:31:16 PM »

I just wrote an article on the front page about the entire Hot Coffee thing.  Read it, and comment here.
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2005, 05:26:57 PM »

And in a nutshell, this bit of news I grabbed from somewhere else (Lum the Mad's site) proves without a doubt that this Hot Coffee mod was NOT done by the mod author. IE: ALL the code is in the game:

Quote
Let’s just say that their hogwash story about people ‘inserting’ their own stuff into the game is pure unadulterated poo.

Here is an Action Replay code for enabling the same thing on PS2 GTA. Note the MEGABYTES of data requred;

Uncensored Hot Coffee
Note: DO NOT SAVE WITH THIS CODE ACTIVE
This cheat will save and MAY corrupt your save
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK
You will be stuck in an invisible box after adult scene
Press R1 R2 L1 L2 buttons at the same time to escape
JD3N-EV68-AGRW0
4PMG-6VNA-PBZQ7
BKR1-JF84-6Q23C
U7Q0-6H91-6JATX
5540-HY63-181MY
7FB5-3052-PWB8N
03AH-5PBC-9K2T7

If you have any clue of how these things are put together, that amount of hex editing cannot possibly ‘insert’ anything to the game. All the ‘naughty’ stuff was already there. This just lets you see what Rockstar put in. Most likely the scene is there (unfinished), and what the ‘modders’ did was just change few bytes to alter pointers that determine what content gets played for a certain scene in the game.
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Zarkon
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2005, 05:31:16 PM »

Right.  LIke I (and Lum) have said, there's absolutely no way that this was completely hacker/fan done.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2005, 07:08:32 PM »

Sweet.  Can we then bust the guy for reverse engineering the program?  I don't recall Rockstar pointing this out or making it accessable.   Its not their fault that this guy nosed through the data.
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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2005, 07:33:25 PM »

I'm inclined to think that Rockstar should shoulder the blame on this.  Controversy= $$$$$ and they, more than any other game company know this.  I seriously wouldn't be surprised if they leaked info or the means to unlock it themselves.  It pisses me off because now we might see some really stupid oppresive shit handed down as a result.
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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2005, 07:38:46 PM »

The guy who did this is no more to blame for modding the game than any other mod author.

In short - if Rockstar didn't want this mod to be released, then they shouldn't have put in the source code in the first place to do this. This is entirely Rockstar's fault, period.

Of course, look at all the free advertising they've gotten as a result. And a LOT more game sales, too, methinks.
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2005, 07:47:49 PM »

Is this really any different than nude Mona in Max Payne 2?  In that game she was in the shower and someone found a way to unlock the nude skin that was in the game already.

Or is the difference that it's sex vs. nudity?
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Zarkon
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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2005, 08:05:44 PM »

I think that it's different than Leisure Suit Larry, Temple of Elemental Evil or Max Payne 2 specifically because of the sex and the fact that it's interactive.
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2005, 08:35:58 PM »

Yeah, god forbid we actually participate in a sex act.  Tongue
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2005, 08:58:56 PM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Yeah, god forbid we actually participate in a sex act.  Tongue


You are missing the point.  It's not that they included it at all, it's that they included it and didn't alert the ESRB about it in their ratings review.  Rockstar had to know this would blow up in some way, stirring up controversy, generating tons of free press, selling more games.
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2005, 09:29:03 PM »

Oh my God, are we the craziest nation on earth, or what?

I just had to see what the hell all this craziness was about, and it seems to be about accessing hidden code to watch 2 fully dressed sprites dry hump each other.  It isn't even playable as a mini game, because even if it is activated, there doesn't seem to be anyway to do anything except change the angle at which you view the sprites dry humping each other.

It is in a game for people old enough to watch much more explicit stuff in any number of R rated movies.  Not for children.  Haven't we been over this territory before?  Games are not just for children.  Many games should not even be seen by children.  None of the GTA games should be seen or played by children.  This is a GTA game.  Therefore...  IT IS NOT FOR CHILDREN.

But, I suppose it is a good way for Senator Clinton to make a name for herself as a defender of childhood virtue.  That way, she can be president in 2008.

And it is a good way for that watchdog group to drum up some money for themselves to help them protect us from ourselves.
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2005, 09:33:30 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Is this really any different than nude Mona in Max Payne 2?  In that game she was in the shower and someone found a way to unlock the nude skin that was in the game already.

Or is the difference that it's sex vs. nudity?


Dude mona fucking rocks! Be careful where you tread  Cool
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Zarkon
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2005, 09:36:30 PM »

Like I said in the article... no one is to blame, and that includes us.  This is only happening because 1) Rockstar knows it'll make 'em a shitload of publicity and money.  2)  The watchdog groups get publicity as well.  3)  Sen. Clinton gets press and gets to be seen as 'protecting the children'.  4)  Parents who could give a shit less about their kids can get offended 5) Anti-government people can bitch about the government getting involved in games and the rest of us can 6) bitch about parents needing to do the parenting. :p
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2005, 10:43:07 PM »

Quote from: "Zarkon"
Like I said in the article... no one is to blame, and that includes us.  This is only happening because 1) Rockstar knows it'll make 'em a shitload of publicity and money.  2)  The watchdog groups get publicity as well.  3)  Sen. Clinton gets press and gets to be seen as 'protecting the children'.  4)  Parents who could give a shit less about their kids can get offended 5) Anti-government people can bitch about the government getting involved in games and the rest of us can 6) bitch about parents needing to do the parenting. :p


Everyone wins!  Huzzah!
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Zarkon
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2005, 11:05:58 PM »

Actually...everyone loses.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2005, 01:28:41 PM »

1.) Sen. Clinton has no interest in helping anyone but her political career.  She is 'filling a niche' since Senator Palpatine..er...Lieberman didn't jump on it this time.  This is hot air and political posturing, nothing more.  I'm leaving the country (and I'm dead serious, not Kim Basinger serious) if she is elected.

2.) Lemme check the box...yep, M for mature.  This game isn't stealing anyone's childhood innocence.  What a load of crap.  You think putting 18+ AO on a title is going to suddenly make idiot parents stop buying it for their idiot kids?  We need a lifeguard at the gene pool.

3.) I'm so tired of 'watchdog groups'.  I don't need or want your help.  Know how to best protect your "virtue" friendly citizen?  Exercise your right to vote...with your money.  That is the only political power you have!  Don't like this type of game? Don't buy it.  Don't like a particular type of TV show?  Don't watch it!  Your politicians are out of touch, why would you rely on them?

4.) Rockstar didn't put the source code into their game.  This guy poked around through the code and extracted this.  There is no SDK out for this game that I'm aware of.

5.) Honestly...is this the best thing we have to focus our attention?  I guess we solved that whole 'war' thing and the other 'poverty' thing.  Guess this is next on the list, right?
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2005, 02:04:36 PM »

I'm with KD.  Just 'cause the code is on the disc doesn't mean Rockstar should submit that content to the ESRB.  The rating is made based on the content of the gameplay.  Hot Coffee is NOT part of the gameplay as packaged.  In fact, you have to get on the internet and search out a very cludgey patch just to get it to work.  Therefore, it shouldn't be considered in the ESRB rating.

To say it's Rockstar's fault 'cause they know people are going to hack through their program and find ways to access it is just ludicrous.  That's kin to blaming Adobe 'cause you hacked access into shelved features and it reformatted your hard drive.  Whether the code exists or not, you weren't meant to use that feature so they took it out of the released product.  The only way Rockstar is at fault, and should be taken to task for not submitting the content to the ESRB, is if it is easily findable via an official SDK (doesn't exist as far as I know) or if they provided the patch/leaked the access method.
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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2005, 04:12:07 PM »

Quote from: "Doomboy"

But, I suppose it is a good way for Senator Clinton to make a name for herself as a defender of childhood virtue.  That way, she can be president in 2008..


Man, I'm so tired of those intolerant religious right extremists trying to legislate morality for us.  :twisted:
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« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2005, 04:14:55 PM »

But, don't you feel more moral and safe with these hooker-humping, cigar storing, give-myself-a-raise, I-cheated-to-get-elected, politicians watching over you?  Yea...he with no sin cast the first stone and all that...
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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2005, 06:14:54 PM »

Quote
1.) Sen. Clinton has no interest in helping anyone but her political career. She is 'filling a niche' since Senator Palpatine..er...Lieberman didn't jump on it this time. This is hot air and political posturing, nothing more. I'm leaving the country (and I'm dead serious, not Kim Basinger serious) if she is elected.


Why?

-Autsitic Angel
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2005, 06:50:11 PM »

I have disagreed with more than 95% of the policy decisions she has made.  When she has unlimited power to step on the little guy, this little guy is leaving.
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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2005, 06:53:02 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
I have disagreed with more than 95% of the policy decisions she has made.  When she has unlimited power to step on the little guy, this little guy is leaving.


*coughHillaryCarecough*
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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2005, 07:36:39 PM »

Quote from: "Zarkon"
I think that it's different than Leisure Suit Larry, Temple of Elemental Evil or Max Payne 2 specifically because of the sex and the fact that it's interactive.
No, it's different because it's Grand Theft Auto.

The public at large doesn't give two fucks about LSL, ToEE or MP2.  But GTA?  That's Satan, after all.

You know what this bullshit is?  It's the same thing the Middle East war, the homophobic crusade against gay marriage, the re-election of that fuckwit Bush, the Terry Schiavo circus, and all the idiotic fights over the 10 Commandments and abortion rights are about:

It's the death throes of Conservatism and 1950s morality.

Now, why Conservatism is dying is a multifaceted and very deep sociological issue, but at its core is the simple truth that information is easier and faster to acquire than it ever has been before throughout human history.

Added to this is a dramatic increase in the percieved importance of a college education.  Studies have shown that the more education an individual has, the more likely they are to hold Liberal beliefs and tendencies.  Thus,

-The social environment shifts to create the perception that a college degree is a prerequisite for a good job.  This is a perception of both employers and potential employees.  (We could go into why the social environment shifted this way, but it'd be pretty long and complicated.  The short version: better tech cuts plenty of unskilled labor jobs, and immigrants get most of the unskilled labor jobs left over.)

-More kids than ever before graduate high school and go to college, because the social perception is they'll never have a good job if they do otherwise.

-As forstated, more education = greater chance to develop Liberal beliefs.

So in short, since college is nowadays viewed as a prerequisite, more individuals are getting deeper educations than, say, 50 years ago.  Thus there is a positive incentive developing liberal tendencies, (college degree = good job), but there is no similar incentive for conservatism.

The conservatives realize all of this, of course.  That's why they attempt to fabricate social pressures that combat the pressure of getting an education, which conservatives well know spawns little liberals, not cuddly conservatives.  

What social pressures?  Nationalism fueled by an endless war.  Witchhunts which round up non-conservatives and label them unAmerican.

And, in this case, attacks on popular media in the attempt to villify those who enjoy it.

And who would want to be a villain?!  

REPENT BY VOTING BUSH!!!
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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2005, 07:39:24 PM »

Quote
I have disagreed with more than 95% of the policy decisions she has made.


I don't have any idea what that means.

If someone asked me why I object to George W. Bush, I can assure you that I could speak at length and in great detail on the subject.  Social security, civil rights, the War on Terror, the Medicade prescription bill, environmental initiatives, tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, Valerie Plame, attacks against John McCain in 2000, sex education, torture memos, No Child Left Behind, the peace in Iraq...take your pick.

But for all of that, I've still never felt the urge to flee the country.

Quote
When she has unlimited power to step on the little guy, this little guy is leaving.


What makes you think any democratic president, much less Hillary Clinton, would have anything that would even vaguely resemble "unlimited power" with a Republican-controlled congress?
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« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2005, 08:24:47 PM »

I view "liberal due to education" as a false correlation.

In my own opinion (unsupported, to my knowledge, by any studies), people become more liberal due to being exposed to a more worldly point of view.  This would be why people become liberal in cities (with or without education), or why universities liberalize people.  To me, it seems to be a side effect of having a lot of people compressed in a small area; when such is the case, you have to respect other people all the more, or else society just begins to break down.  A person on a packed subway cant selfishly demand to take up two seats, for example.

Which is why Ive never had a problem with 'true' conservatives (and even consider myself one in many respects); an actual conservative viewpoint does not conflict with a liberal viewpoint.  And on the political compass, both comprise the real mainstream American value system.

Thats why this 'NeoCon' bullshit masquerading as conservatism is so offensive.  It has nothing to do with actual conservatism.  In my view, it is much like the philosophy behind supply side, or 'trickle down', economics, which is just a way of justifying kleptocratic views.  Everything else is just a smoke screen- the people must ignore the man behind the curtain at all costs!

Quote
So in short, since college is nowadays viewed as a prerequisite, more individuals are getting deeper educations than, say, 50 years ago.


This attitude kind of feeds itself in many respects.  For example, I dont hold a degree but have over nine years of experience in my field.  Despite that, I am excluded from even applying for many jobs solely because I dont have a degree yet.
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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2005, 02:43:45 PM »

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