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Author Topic: Hillary Announces White House Run. Oh God No...  (Read 3946 times)
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whiteboyskim
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« on: January 20, 2007, 04:19:43 PM »

The bitch is official.
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2007, 04:22:24 PM »

In unrelated but equally shocking news, Kobra pimps Costco in forum!  slywink
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2007, 04:41:59 PM »

Well, it's not like people can say she would be worse than the last guy to hold the job.
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2007, 04:45:33 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 20, 2007, 04:41:59 PM

Well, it's not like people can say she would be worse than the last guy to hold the job.

I don't think anyone wants to test that theory.

And please, Bush the worst president we've had?  He's bad, but we have had MUCH worse.
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2007, 04:51:25 PM »

So we've got a black man, a hispanic man, and a white woman all running for the Democratic nomination? WOW! I don't think anything says, "Bush sucks!" more.

P.S. - Before someone paints me as racist/sexist, I certainly am not. I just happen to find it amusing that three demographics that have historically been incapable of taking the white house are all deciding to run NOW. To me, these three putting together exploratory committees is a pretty loud signal that backlash against the current administration is so damaging to the Republican side that that it may negate whatever percieved disadvantage being black, hispanic or female may have to the majority of voters.

Though, honestly, I'd hate for that to be the legacy of our first non-white and/or non-male POTUS. "The previous guy was SO BAD they put a WOMAN in the White House!" etc.
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2007, 05:26:08 PM »

Her campaign slogan will be, "Hey, at least I'll do better than Bill did.  No, really.  Stop it."
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2007, 05:29:42 PM »

Great, was waiting for her to make it official.  This is EXACTLY what America needs.  On election day, she'll be getting one vote from me.  And I hope, I hope she wins (although she probably won't).

This is such a pivotal election...we need a woman as our President.  We really, really do.
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2007, 05:33:20 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on January 20, 2007, 05:29:42 PM

Great, was waiting for her to make it official.  This is EXACTLY what America needs.  On election day, she'll be getting one vote from me.  And I hope, I hope she wins (although she probably won't).

This is such a pivotal election...we need a woman as our President.  We really, really do.

You want video games outlawed?  I sure don't and that is exactly why I wont vote for her.  Fuck the censorship bullshit.  I'd gladly vote for a woman... but not her.
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2007, 05:46:50 PM »

Quote from: GatorFavre on January 20, 2007, 05:33:20 PM

Quote from: TheMissingLink on January 20, 2007, 05:29:42 PM

Great, was waiting for her to make it official.  This is EXACTLY what America needs.  On election day, she'll be getting one vote from me.  And I hope, I hope she wins (although she probably won't).

This is such a pivotal election...we need a woman as our President.  We really, really do.

You want video games outlawed?  I sure don't and that is exactly why I wont vote for her.  Fuck the censorship bullshit.  I'd gladly vote for a woman... but not her.

There are plenty of reasons not to like or vote for Hillary, but thinking that she'll outlaw videogames is not one of them. There is no way in hell that would ever happen.
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2007, 06:08:41 PM »



 thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

I really wish we had him back in the White House and if electing Hillary is the only way to do it, so be it.
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2007, 06:11:48 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on January 20, 2007, 04:45:33 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 20, 2007, 04:41:59 PM

Well, it's not like people can say she would be worse than the last guy to hold the job.

I don't think anyone wants to test that theory.

And please, Bush the worst president we've had?  He's bad, but we have had MUCH worse.

+1, to all of this.
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2007, 06:19:08 PM »

I don't see her beating out Obama in the primaries.
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2007, 06:23:57 PM »

but then again, I didn't think Kerry would win the primaries too.  never underestimate the power of idiots.
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2007, 06:32:14 PM »

The Republicans will NEVER let Bill Clinton back in the White House, even if he's serving as a First Gentlemen. Becoming the first woman president has been Hillary's lifelong goal, but she really needs to accept reality.
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2007, 06:37:53 PM »

I would rather Hillary than Sam Brownback. According to CNN he is officially in.
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2007, 06:41:26 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on January 20, 2007, 06:08:41 PM



 thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

I really wish we had him back in the White House and if electing Hillary is the only way to do it, so be it.

+1.

I wouldn't be voting Hillary for President so much as voting Bill for First Lady.

And if history has proven anything, it's that a Clinton Administration can repair the damages caused by a Bush Administration.


As for the statement that there has been a worse president than Bush...  that's a pretty bold statement.  Who could anyone possibly cite as being worse?


PS-  I'll need a "Bill Clinton's Wife for President" pin.
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2007, 06:59:15 PM »

People usually mention Harding or Buchanan as being worse presidents than GW, but I think GW has them both beat.  Yeah, Buchanan didn't prevent the Civil War, and yeah, Harding was mostly corrupt and ineffectual, but I think the long term damage Bush has inflicted on our nation will be felt for generations, and I'm not sure we'll ever fully recover, either politically or financially. That to me makes him Numero Uno on the list of bad presidents.
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2007, 07:05:24 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 20, 2007, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: Hetz on January 20, 2007, 06:08:41 PM



 thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

I really wish we had him back in the White House and if electing Hillary is the only way to do it, so be it.

+1.

I wouldn't be voting Hillary for President so much as voting Bill for First Lady.

And if history has proven anything, it's that a Clinton Administration can repair the damages caused by a Bush Administration.


As for the statement that there has been a worse president than Bush...  that's a pretty bold statement.  Who could anyone possibly cite as being worse?


PS-  I'll need a "Bill Clinton's Wife for President" pin.

First off, I thought Hillary was widely regarded as the one who wore the pants during Clinton's presidency.

Second, my saying that there was a worse president than Bush being bold?  Wouldn't you think that it is too soon to judge considering he is still in office?  I think emotion is clouding your judgement.

As for who was worse, well, Nixon comes to mind.  As does Andrew Johnson.  I'm sure I am just scratching the surface.

Maybe you should just say "The worst president in my lifetime."  That would probably be an accurate statement in your case.
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2007, 07:13:08 PM »

I think this would be a big mistake for the Dems to nominate her. I just don't think she is capable of winning a general election.  I think she is more than capable of doing the job but she won't win. Obama would probably have a better chance.  Although, I'm still not sure what his accomplishments are and I'm living in Illinois.  He is intelligent and has a great positive image but it seems a little soon to be running for president. It is possible that his hype machine could burst like Howard Deans did. Just my two cents.........
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2007, 07:23:34 PM »

nixon would have probably gone down as a pretty excellent president had it not been for watergate and general sleazy behavior.  the guy ended vietnam and had the foresight to restore normal relations with china.  (dear god im defending nixon).

and i would vote for hillary in a heartbeat if she had the nerve to run on what was her huge issue as first lady - a total revamp to near universal health care.  as it is she hasnt even mentioned it which makes her a lousy politician concerned with what makes her "electable" and not about the things she knows are right and in which she truly believes.
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2007, 07:25:42 PM »

Personally, I've always felt Grant and Carter were tied for worst presidents ever but that's me. As for Hillary, she needs to secure the nomination before any of us goes off the deep end and that includes me. slywink Considering the Clintons are the Democrat equivalent of the Bush's in terms of being able to raise campaign money like nobody else I'm fairly certain Hillary will have the edge financially. I still believe Obama is all smoke and mirrors because he hasn't done anything yet. Give him 10 years in Congress and look at his record then before annointing him the savior of the Democrats humanity.

At the very least, the 2008 election just got a hell of a lot more interesting than the last one was. It'll be kicked into high gear once the Republicans start throwing their hats in the ring and that's the moment the real fun of watching all these fools battle to the top of Thunderdome begins. icon_biggrin
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2007, 07:38:29 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on January 20, 2007, 07:05:24 PM

First off, I thought Hillary was widely regarded as the one who wore the pants during Clinton's presidency.

Only widely regarded by Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly, to my knowledge.  Do any credible books, interviews, etc. back up that view?

Quote
Second, my saying that there was a worse president than Bush being bold?  Wouldn't you think that it is too soon to judge considering he is still in office?  I think emotion is clouding your judgement.

If I jump out of a second floor window and break my arm, fracture my head, and get internal bleeding, it doesn't take me several decades to conclude it was a bad idea.  It doesn't take 30 years to know a terrible president, but it might take that long to fully appreciate how much damage has been done.  As President Clinton demonstrated, good policies pay off very quickly on a national level.

If you ask every American who was the worst US president in history, I think you will find the people NOT stating GWB to be in the clear, and overwhelming, minority.  Ditto if you ask HISTORIANS who was the worst US president in history.

Quote
As for who was worse, well, Nixon comes to mind.  As does Andrew Johnson.  I'm sure I am just scratching the surface.

Worse than Nixon?  Even people who were involved up to their elbows in the Nixon administration admit things are currently far, far worse.  Unless they are the Nixonites who are currently part of the Bush administration, I mean.

Quote
Maybe you should just say "The worst president in my lifetime."  That would probably be an accurate statement in your case.

Nah.  I haven't seen anything which would change my opinion.  I think Bush surpasses the bad of every other bad president.  Combined.  There is corruption, treason, abuse of power, etc.  Just one of his scandals, taken alone, would have brought down any past president.

Personally, I'm just looking forward to getting our nation back to a place where the rule of law actually has some kind of meaning.
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2007, 07:42:26 PM »

I hate to say this, but I think it is time we put someone fairly liberal in office.  We've tried the whole right wing thing, and it just hasn't worked out well for the country as a whole, much less the average joe in the country. We need to push the slider *WAY* back over to the middle, perhaps slightly to the left.  I much preferred life in this country under Clinton than I did under the bushes. Its pretty much a mess right now.

Whoever the dems put up, I will be voting for without even a second thought.  The republicans had their chance, and did nothing but abuse and squander it, and I will never reward them for their debacle.

Keeping in mind, I am a right leaning libertarian, but my vote needs to count this time around, there is too much at stake to have another republican wave sweep this country.  Look what the fuck they did to us!
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2007, 07:43:40 PM »

Obama is my Senator, and I even voted for him.  But I haven't seen or heard anything he's done or said which leads me to conclude I should necessarily vote for him again as Senator, much less president.

Now I will say I have no cause to vote AGAINST him, which is a pretty good thing.  IMO, you should be voting against people, rather than for them.  "FOR" requires a depth of familiarity and understanding which isn't possible unless you personally know someone (or unless they have a long track record).
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2007, 07:46:04 PM »

I think I'll vote for her.
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2007, 07:46:34 PM »

 headbang
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2007, 07:49:58 PM »

As for Bush being the worst president in history, I think about every poll I have ever seen says he is, even "That" other forum says so;

http://www.octopusoverlords.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35191&highlight=president

In general, I have yet to find/read any poll that says otherwise, anywhere.  Based on people that research presidents I have talked to, they seem to also agree, bush has caused more harm to this country than any president.  I think it is pretty clear he will be remembered as a giant fucking failure.

Once the full ramifications of his crimes come out, this will be assured.
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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2007, 07:50:40 PM »




So very out out OUT.  I can't vote for the guy/girl combo that had a chance to take out Osama and didn't.
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« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2007, 07:53:14 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on January 20, 2007, 07:42:26 PM

I hate to say this, but I think it is time we put someone fairly liberal in office.  We've tried the whole right wing thing, and it just hasn't worked out well for the country as a whole, much less the average joe in the country. We need to push the slider *WAY* back over to the middle, perhaps slightly to the left.  I much preferred life in this country under Clinton than I did under the bushes. Its pretty much a mess right now.

Whoever the dems put up, I will be voting for without even a second thought.  The republicans had their chance, and did nothing but abuse and squander it, and I will never reward them for their debacle.

Keeping in mind, I am a right leaning libertarian, but my vote needs to count this time around, there is too much at stake to have another republican wave sweep this country.  Look what the fuck they did to us!

You do know that Clinton is big on taking down video games and entertainment?  She is also pro DRM.  Two BIIIIIG things that put her solid in the no category.
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2007, 07:53:39 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 20, 2007, 07:38:29 PM

If you ask every American who was the worst US president in history, I think you will find the people NOT stating GWB to be in the clear, and overwhelming, minority.  Ditto if you ask HISTORIANS who was the worst US president in history.

Sorry, I think this is a load of crap.  I think you'll find that most people think he's bad, but not the worst.  The country is not frothing at the mouth with hatred for the man, contrary to what most liberals would hope.  And I call double bullshit on the historians comment as well.  It is just too soon to tell.  All of this talk that Bush has set us back on the international front for decades has yet to play out.  EVERYBODY is just too close to it right now to form an objective opinion and have the large-scale perspective that a decade or two will give us.

I just wish a viable 3rd party could step forward and shake up the good cop/ bad cop dynamic of the republicans and democrats...
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« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2007, 07:54:11 PM »

I'd vote for her.  I can't bring myself to like a guy with the name 'Obama'....  blame Osama.
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« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2007, 07:55:18 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 20, 2007, 07:43:40 PM

IMO, you should be voting against people, rather than for them.  "FOR" requires a depth of familiarity and understanding which isn't possible unless you personally know someone (or unless they have a long track record).

This is where you and I fundamentally disagree.  I think this mindset is a total perversion of the voting process.
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« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2007, 07:58:33 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on January 20, 2007, 07:49:58 PM

As for Bush being the worst president in history, I think about every poll I have ever seen says he is, even "That" other forum says so;

http://www.octopusoverlords.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35191&highlight=president

In general, I have yet to find/read any poll that says otherwise, anywhere.  Based on people that research presidents I have talked to, they seem to also agree, bush has caused more harm to this country than any president.  I think it is pretty clear he will be remembered as a giant failure.

Once the full ramifications of his crimes come out, this will be assured.

Such BS.  Do polls now and ask which game is the best one ever: something that came out now or something that came out 10 years ago and the one that's fresh will win.  Same with presidents. That's why so many recent crap albums are on the 100 best lists. The opposite is true as well.

Ask the question in 20 years when most of the middle east is a peaceful democracy and GWB will probably be 2nd only to GW*.

As for Hilary, I think the Dems will make a huge mistake if she is the one who actually runs as the Dem hopeful for prez. She's very polarizing and I bet moderate to slightly left independents will vote against her for her competition. Not to mention, it will galvanize all the disilussioned Repubs to get back to the polls.

Easy win for the Repubs if Hilary wins the nom.



*Yes I can say preposterously inconceivable things too!
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« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2007, 08:00:53 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 20, 2007, 07:50:40 PM

I can't vote for the guy/girl combo that had a chance to take out Osama and didn't.

That incident never happened.

I forget the country, I believe it was Kenya.  They had Osama, and offered him to... SAUDI ARABIA... not the US.  Clinton urged the Saudis to accept him so he could go on trial for terrorism, they refused.  End of story, Osama was let go and expelled to... Afghanistan.

Now, the Bush family is pretty damn tight with the Saudi family.  Oh, and the Bin Laden family.  So why didn't ex-President Bush hit the speed dial and ask the Saudis to take him into custody, and help the USA out?

I have my own theories, about that one.  Let's just say it goes along the same line of thought which gave us Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein.
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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2007, 08:04:33 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 20, 2007, 08:00:53 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 20, 2007, 07:50:40 PM

I can't vote for the guy/girl combo that had a chance to take out Osama and didn't.

That incident never happened.

I forget the country, I believe it was Kenya.  They had Osama, and offered him to... SAUDI ARABIA... not the US.  Clinton urged the Saudis to accept him so he could go on trial for terrorism, they refused.  End of story, Osama was let go and expelled to... Afghanistan.

Now, the Bush family is pretty damn tight with the Saudi family.  Oh, and the Bin Laden family.  So why didn't ex-President Bush hit the speed dial and ask the Saudis to take him into custody, and help the USA out?

I have my own theories, about that one.  Let's just say it goes along the same line of thought which gave us Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein.

Also now is not the time to have a toothless president in office.  Oh! You blew up one of our buildings?We'l l send 12 cruise missiles into your deserts. Take that!
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« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2007, 08:06:48 PM »

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2007, 07:58:33 PM

Such BS.  Do polls now and ask which game is the best one ever: something that came out now or something that came out 10 years ago and the one that's fresh will win.  Same with presidents. That's why so many recent crap albums are on the 100 best lists. The opposite is true as well.

Ask the question in 20 years when most of the middle east is a peaceful democracy and GWB will probably be 2nd only to GW*.

That's not a real good metaphor IMO. Games change with the times, while the presidency has some clear cut criteria. Yes, in time we will be better able to reflect on the 8 years as a whole, but we can see what he has or has not done now.
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« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2007, 08:09:25 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 20, 2007, 08:00:53 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 20, 2007, 07:50:40 PM

I can't vote for the guy/girl combo that had a chance to take out Osama and didn't.

That incident never happened.

I forget the country, I believe it was Kenya.  They had Osama, and offered him to... SAUDI ARABIA... not the US.  Clinton urged the Saudis to accept him so he could go on trial for terrorism, they refused.  End of story, Osama was let go and expelled to... Afghanistan.

Now, the Bush family is pretty damn tight with the Saudi family.  Oh, and the Bin Laden family.  So why didn't ex-President Bush hit the speed dial and ask the Saudis to take him into custody, and help the USA out?

I have my own theories, about that one.  Let's just say it goes along the same line of thought which gave us Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein.

Sorry, but this is something I know for sure.  Clinton had troops on the ground with orders to laser a camp.  Seconds before bombs were dropped Clinton didn't pull the trigger.  What you are talking about is a different situation.
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« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2007, 08:12:58 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on January 20, 2007, 07:55:18 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 20, 2007, 07:43:40 PM

IMO, you should be voting against people, rather than for them.  "FOR" requires a depth of familiarity and understanding which isn't possible unless you personally know someone (or unless they have a long track record).

This is where you and I fundamentally disagree.  I think this mindset is a total perversion of the voting process.

It seems we'll just have to agree to disagree.  I think waiting and dreaming of some magical, mystical "third party" which will sweep in and be all things to all people is pretty unlikely to happen.  Ever.  I'm content to follow the wisdom of generations of Americans who have been "voting the bums out" for over a century.

Everyone in the nation can't be a bum.  If you vote against enough people, you will eventually get someone decent in.  Also, the process isn't some magical, mystical thing.  If you know someone in your district or whatever who you think would do a good job, try getting them to run.  If they are already in office, help them seek a higher office.  Help other people get excited about this person.

I think part of the problem with elections since the Cold War is that the concept of the citizen has become this passive entity, who are just content to sit around and let the government do it's thing, and just grumble about how you can't fight city hall.

If 2006 teaches anyone anything, it's that the citizens still hold the power.  So long as we are a democracy.

I read a really good article last year, which was discussing rigged elections.  In a nation with reasonably open elections, there is only so much cheating can do.  If the citizens can get SO many people to vote the bums out, not even rigged elections can overcome it (which was the problem with 2000 and 2004- the margin of victory wasn't high enough to overcome the "spread").
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« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2007, 08:16:56 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 20, 2007, 07:54:11 PM

I'd vote for her.  I can't bring myself to like a guy with the name 'Obama'....  blame Osama.

To make it worse, the man's name is Barack Hussein Obama. There's no way in hell anyone's gonna sell that to the average American voter that doesn't read and gets all their info from Fox News.
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« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2007, 08:18:24 PM »

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2007, 08:04:33 PM

Also now is not the time to have a toothless president in office.  Oh! You blew up one of our buildings?We'l l send 12 cruise missiles into your deserts. Take that!

So rather than having a toothless guard dog, is it better to have a brainlessly rabid animal? Oh, someone shot at the building, and the new guard dog went into the house, tore up the kids, then jumped through the neighbor's window and killed everyone there?

I guess that will teach nobody to shoot near the house!


Had GWB actually managed to capture OBL or, failing that, acheive victory in Afghanistan, then GWB would have some kind of claim to... at least being qualified.  As it stands, it's well into his second term, and I still can't name a single thing he has done in office which has benefitted the USA.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2007, 08:22:23 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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