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Author Topic: Hi-Def War to end at CES 2008...?  (Read 15589 times)
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Simon
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« Reply #160 on: January 08, 2008, 07:43:36 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on January 08, 2008, 07:27:00 PM

Quote from: Thin_J on January 08, 2008, 07:25:17 PM

According to Forbes Paramount just issued another denial in response to the Financial Times article about switching to Blu-Ray, which is super weird when taken alongside their statement that they won't be announcing any new HD-DVD titles.

Most likely posturing until the lawyers work out the details so they don't violate anything in the contract. I mean, thats my guess.

Yeah, they'll keep denying it until it's true.

The Digital Bits is now saying that Universal is possibly poised to switch as well, and that retailers are already planning on phasing out their HD-DVD support. No clue if any of that is true either but you have to think that with all these rumours swirling around that something might happen.
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« Reply #161 on: January 08, 2008, 07:45:52 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on January 08, 2008, 07:40:36 PM

Well the PS3 has only a total of 512MB RAM (including video memory) so it doesn't seem to even fit that standard unless they use some sort of virtual memory for whatever that feature is. 

I'm not sure if they are referring to RAM or storage. 

Sony did confirm at CES that the PS3 would be updated to meet the 2.0 spec via firmware. 
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« Reply #162 on: January 08, 2008, 07:49:56 PM »

I'm so glad I haven't wasted any of my money on either side of this issue yet.
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« Reply #163 on: January 08, 2008, 08:26:59 PM »

Quote from: Simon on January 08, 2008, 07:43:36 PM

Quote from: Calvin on January 08, 2008, 07:27:00 PM

Quote from: Thin_J on January 08, 2008, 07:25:17 PM

According to Forbes Paramount just issued another denial in response to the Financial Times article about switching to Blu-Ray, which is super weird when taken alongside their statement that they won't be announcing any new HD-DVD titles.

Most likely posturing until the lawyers work out the details so they don't violate anything in the contract. I mean, thats my guess.

Yeah, they'll keep denying it until it's true.

The Digital Bits is now saying that Universal is possibly poised to switch as well, and that retailers are already planning on phasing out their HD-DVD support. No clue if any of that is true either but you have to think that with all these rumours swirling around that something might happen.

Ooh I liked that digitalbits article.  Now I just need a better jump-in deal from Blu Ray and my resolve is toast!
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« Reply #164 on: January 08, 2008, 08:34:22 PM »

What pisses me off about this entire thing is how one company has the power to do this to the industry.  It sucks.
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« Reply #165 on: January 08, 2008, 08:52:07 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on January 08, 2008, 08:34:22 PM

What pisses me off about this entire thing is how one company has the power to do this to the industry.  It sucks.

not just one company though, unless sony single-handedly bought out every other studio's production rights.  that would be an expensive bill if it's true. 

i didn't think the war would end this soon.  now it could be all but done in 6 months.  amazing.
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« Reply #166 on: January 08, 2008, 08:56:39 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on January 08, 2008, 08:34:22 PM

What pisses me off about this entire thing is how one company has the power to do this to the industry.  It sucks.
What in the fuckity fuck fuck sucks about this? Its a unified format, something we all should scream out the windows for. Dear lord.
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« Reply #167 on: January 08, 2008, 08:59:35 PM »

Sony did singlehandedly do this. They stepped away from the bargaining table and opted to force the studio houses, and general public, to pay for the HD war. As of right now they are selling a product to people that has not as of yet been completely defined.

Look at HDTV and it's "HDTV ready" sets that are barely HD compliant. Think of all the players out there for BD that need upgrading and how many consumers may be stuck with hardware that simply can't comply with the final product; let's hope they have some sort of firmware distribution  on movie titles (as not everyone has internet, and not all players have network connectivity) and that it doesn't bork the players; it's not like Sony has earned trust after the RootKit fiasco.
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« Reply #168 on: January 08, 2008, 09:04:57 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 08, 2008, 08:59:35 PM

Sony did singlehandedly do this. They stepped away from the bargaining table and opted to force the studio houses, and general public, to pay for the HD war. As of right now they are selling a product to people that has not as of yet been completely defined.

This is why it sucks.  I don't like the way the entire thing was handled.  Something is rotten in Denmark.
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« Reply #169 on: January 08, 2008, 09:07:08 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 08, 2008, 08:59:35 PM

Sony did singlehandedly do this. They stepped away from the bargaining table and opted to force the studio houses, and general public, to pay for the HD war.

Do you think constantly repeating that is going to make it true?

gellar
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« Reply #170 on: January 08, 2008, 09:09:44 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 08, 2008, 08:59:35 PM

Sony did singlehandedly do this. They stepped away from the bargaining table and opted to force the studio houses, and general public, to pay for the HD war. As of right now they are selling a product to people that has not as of yet been completely defined.

Why does it matter that Sony stepped away from the table?  Why shouldn't we blame Toshiba for compromising more during negotiations?  Both parties were in their rights to do whatever they want.  They couldn't come to an agreement, despite numerous attempts, so they decided to put both to market and see what happened. 

Sony "forced" studios?  That's a joke.  One of the bigger sources of contention between the two formats is additional copy protection and region coding.  Both of those are things that the studios on the Blu-Ray side were in favor of.  Indeed, it was the additional copy protection that was instrument in getting Fox on the Blu-Ray side in the first place. 

If the studios wanted to support HD-DVD then they could have, with the obvious exception of Sony's own studio. If it had been every studio with HD-DVD versus Sony as the lone Bluray studio then the format war would have ended that day.   

People like to joke about all of Sony's failed formats but it also weakens any arguments to be had about Sony using their weight to force studios and consumers to adopt a format they aren't interested in. 
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« Reply #171 on: January 08, 2008, 09:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 08, 2008, 08:59:35 PM

Sony did singlehandedly do this. They stepped away from the bargaining table and opted to force the studio houses, and general public, to pay for the HD war. As of right now they are selling a product to people that has not as of yet been completely defined.

Look at HDTV and it's "HDTV ready" sets that are barely HD compliant. Think of all the players out there for BD that need upgrading and how many consumers may be stuck with hardware that simply can't comply with the final product; let's hope they have some sort of firmware distribution  on movie titles (as not everyone has internet, and not all players have network connectivity) and that it doesn't bork the players; it's not like Sony has earned trust after the RootKit fiasco.

Dude, for the 47th time, stop spreading this bullshit. It.is.factually incorrect. The story goes something like this:

Quote
In an attempt to avoid starting a war, the Blu-ray Disc Association and the DVD Forum attempted to negotiate a compromise in early 2005. One of the issues was that the Blu-ray Disc camp wanted to use a Java-based platform for interactivity (BD-J), while the DVD Forum was promoting Microsoft's "iHD" (which became HDi). A much larger issue, though, was the physical formats of the discs themselves; the Blu-ray Disc member companies did not want to risk losing billions of dollars in royalties as they had done with standard DVD. An agreement seemed close, but negotiations proceeded slowly.

On August 22, 2005, the Blu-ray Disc Association and DVD Forum announced that the negotiations to unify their standards had failed. Rumours surfaced that an "unnamed partner" had pressured Toshiba to stick with HD DVD[widely thought to be Microsoft] —in spite of Blu-ray Disc's strong support among Hollywood studios and some analysts saying that HD DVD's days were numbered—but these rumours were denied by the parties involved; instead, the same reasons of physical format incompatibility were cited. At the end of September, Microsoft and Intel jointly announced their support for HD DVD. Yahoo News at the time reported that Toshiba had walked away from the bargaining table.

Hewlett-Packard (HP) made a last attempt to broker a peace between Blu-ray Disc Association and Microsoft. The company demanded that the Blu-ray Disc Association adopt Microsoft's HDi instead of its own Java solution, and that Blu-ray Disc adopt a mandatory managed copy feature. If the demands weren't met, HP threatened to support HD DVD instead. HP wanted it's own proprietary features that supported HDi, and Sony was not interested to giving in to pressure from Microsoft. The deal was not accepted.

I am not even going to bother posting the history of how Toshiba managed to emerge victorious and take almost all of the manufacturing and royalties from the unified DVD format from Sony and Philips.

Just FYI, the Blu-Ray Disc Association is made up of the following (most supported BRD-DVD prior to the format war):
    * Apple Inc.
    * Dell
    * Hewlett Packard
    * Hitachi
    * LG Electronics
    * Mitsubishi Electric
    * Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
    * Pioneer Corporation
    * Royal Philips Electronics
    * Samsung Electronics
    * Sharp Corporation
    * Sony Corporation
    * Sun Microsystems
    * TDK Corporation
    * Thomson
    * Twentieth Century Fox
    * Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group / Buena Vista Home Entertainment
    * Warner Home Video Inc. (Exclusively as of January 4 2008)

I am sure you have a point, but you aren't making it by angrily perpetuating misinformation.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 09:20:53 PM by Calvin » Logged
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« Reply #172 on: January 08, 2008, 09:17:54 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on January 08, 2008, 09:04:57 PM

Quote from: Purge on January 08, 2008, 08:59:35 PM

Sony did singlehandedly do this. They stepped away from the bargaining table and opted to force the studio houses, and general public, to pay for the HD war. As of right now they are selling a product to people that has not as of yet been completely defined.

This is why it sucks.  I don't like the way the entire thing was handled.  Something is rotten in Denmark.

It doesn't suck because that's bullshit. Spend 5 minutes reading up on stuff instead of buying into conspiracy crap.
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« Reply #173 on: January 08, 2008, 09:20:26 PM »

I mean seriously guys, I am ALL FOR blind, ignorant hatred (it's a founding principle of the American way!)... but trying to disguise blind, ignorant hatred as fact based hatred is kind of annoying.

gellar
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« Reply #174 on: January 08, 2008, 09:39:07 PM »

blu ray player at the 150-125 price point please  thumbsup
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« Reply #175 on: January 08, 2008, 09:39:45 PM »

it's funner to point to sony as an evil corporation among saints.  imagine the other guys as being non-profitable charities with no stakeholders and it will be easy to see how evil sony can be, what with it's profit-mindedness and industry friendly technologies. 

then remember what it was like when the ps1 was the underdog and how much nintendo and sega were the bad guys.  remember Corporate entities, if you get too big or too successful, we will hate you for it.
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« Reply #176 on: January 08, 2008, 10:06:29 PM »

Personally, I'm just glad to see a potential end to this format war. I've slowed down my purchases of DVD over the last year or so, and I'd prefer to start investing in the next-gen format. I've got a great DVD player I won't be parting with anytime soon, but I'm now seriously considering picking up a PS3 as (primarily) a blu-ray player. From the sound of things, it's upgradable via firmware and I kind of like the idea that Sony is supplementing the price of a PS3 by eating some of the costs of the hardware.

It seems as though the writing is pretty much on the wall for HD-DVD.

The big question now: Once hardware prices come down, will consumers start to adopt the Blu-ray format or will they skip this generation entirely?
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« Reply #177 on: January 08, 2008, 10:08:49 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on January 08, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

blu ray player at the 150-125 price point please  thumbsup

Why not purchase a worthwhile blu-ray player / gaming console for a few more bucks?
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« Reply #178 on: January 08, 2008, 10:22:33 PM »

If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow, and I have no problems with that.

I have now read more on it and I remember press releases citing the BD consortium walking away; it was from HP's bid to end the war... which Sony DID reject.

The terms were to allow managed copy feature and to use HDi instead of HD-J.

Neither happened; hooray for region encoding.

I look forward to digital distribution, even though I know I'll end up with a PS3 within the next 12 months.
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« Reply #179 on: January 08, 2008, 10:23:53 PM »

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:08:49 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on January 08, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

blu ray player at the 150-125 price point please  thumbsup

Why not purchase a worthwhile blu-ray player / gaming console for a few more bucks?

$400 != 'a few more bucks'

gellar
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« Reply #180 on: January 08, 2008, 10:29:38 PM »

Quote from: gellar on January 08, 2008, 10:23:53 PM

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:08:49 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on January 08, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

blu ray player at the 150-125 price point please  thumbsup

Why not purchase a worthwhile blu-ray player / gaming console for a few more bucks?

$400 != 'a few more bucks'

gellar

Ok, how about for an additional price of a Wii?  $150 +$250 = $400 and people are slamming down cash for that puppy like none other.

GO BLURAY
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« Reply #181 on: January 08, 2008, 10:32:48 PM »

Quote from: gellar on January 08, 2008, 09:20:26 PM

I mean seriously guys, I am ALL FOR blind, ignorant hatred (it's a founding principle of the American way!)... but trying to disguise blind, ignorant hatred as fact based hatred is kind of annoying.

Kind of like a certain political poster on the boards?
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« Reply #182 on: January 08, 2008, 11:04:57 PM »

Quote from: Graham on January 08, 2008, 10:32:48 PM

Quote from: gellar on January 08, 2008, 09:20:26 PM

I mean seriously guys, I am ALL FOR blind, ignorant hatred (it's a founding principle of the American way!)... but trying to disguise blind, ignorant hatred as fact based hatred is kind of annoying.

Kind of like a certain political poster on the boards?

Why derail for no reason?
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« Reply #183 on: January 09, 2008, 02:16:41 AM »

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:29:38 PM

Quote from: gellar on January 08, 2008, 10:23:53 PM

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:08:49 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on January 08, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

blu ray player at the 150-125 price point please  thumbsup

Why not purchase a worthwhile blu-ray player / gaming console for a few more bucks?

$400 != 'a few more bucks'

gellar

Ok, how about for an additional price of a Wii?  $150 +$250 = $400 and people are slamming down cash for that puppy like none other.

what if he doesn't want a Wii, only a Blu Ray player.  You logic makes less sense than a one mime version of Hamlet.
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« Reply #184 on: January 09, 2008, 02:44:10 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 09, 2008, 02:16:41 AM

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:29:38 PM

Quote from: gellar on January 08, 2008, 10:23:53 PM

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:08:49 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on January 08, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

blu ray player at the 150-125 price point please  thumbsup

Why not purchase a worthwhile blu-ray player / gaming console for a few more bucks?

$400 != 'a few more bucks'

gellar

Ok, how about for an additional price of a Wii?  $150 +$250 = $400 and people are slamming down cash for that puppy like none other.

what if he doesn't want a Wii, only a Blu Ray player.  You logic makes less sense than a one mime version of Hamlet.

"Price of a Wii" does not equal him wanting a Wii.  Where did you get that from?  I'm comparing the difference of the price to how much a Wii's MSRP is which people have been buying like nutzos.

kthxbai
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« Reply #185 on: January 09, 2008, 03:13:30 AM »

Quote from: depward on January 09, 2008, 02:44:10 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on January 09, 2008, 02:16:41 AM

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:29:38 PM

Quote from: gellar on January 08, 2008, 10:23:53 PM

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:08:49 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on January 08, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

blu ray player at the 150-125 price point please  thumbsup

Why not purchase a worthwhile blu-ray player / gaming console for a few more bucks?

$400 != 'a few more bucks'

gellar

Ok, how about for an additional price of a Wii?  $150 +$250 = $400 and people are slamming down cash for that puppy like none other.

what if he doesn't want a Wii, only a Blu Ray player.  You logic makes less sense than a one mime version of Hamlet.

"Price of a Wii" does not equal him wanting a Wii.  Where did you get that from?  I'm comparing the difference of the price to how much a Wii's MSRP is which people have been buying like nutzos.

kthxbai

oh, gotcha.  sorry, feeling a little sleepy after a big dinner and read that differently than you meant it.  Hugs?

then again for the price of that Blu Ray Player and a Wii you get BC  Tongue I KEED I KEED!!!!
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« Reply #186 on: January 09, 2008, 04:31:34 AM »

Indeed, hugs are in order.  Here - I am embracing my Macbook and giving it a little squeeze.

GO BLURAY
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« Reply #187 on: January 09, 2008, 10:28:36 AM »

Well I think the point he was making is that you CAN get a a Blu-ray player for only $150 and you can get a game console for only $250 on top of that.  Of course it's true that perhaps he doesn't want a game console-but then he'd be posting on the wrong forums! smile
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« Reply #188 on: January 09, 2008, 02:21:34 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 08, 2008, 10:22:33 PM

If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow, and I have no problems with that.

I have now read more on it and I remember press releases citing the BD consortium walking away; it was from HP's bid to end the war... which Sony DID reject.

The terms were to allow managed copy feature and to use HDi instead of HD-J.

Neither happened; hooray for region encoding.

I look forward to digital distribution, even though I know I'll end up with a PS3 within the next 12 months.


But you...were...wrong...?
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« Reply #189 on: January 09, 2008, 02:48:15 PM »

Sort of ... I was wrong that Sony was to blame for the whole deal. Toshiba ultimately pulled back, and then HP put forth a last ditch attempt to bridge the gap and Sony were the last to "walk away" from the bargaining table.

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« Reply #190 on: January 09, 2008, 04:33:08 PM »

You are not very good at eating crow.

gellar
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« Reply #191 on: January 09, 2008, 04:41:57 PM »

Quote from: gellar on January 09, 2008, 04:33:08 PM

You are not very good at eating crow.

gellar

do they have crow in Canada?  maybe it should be moose.
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« Reply #192 on: January 09, 2008, 04:56:19 PM »

haha
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« Reply #193 on: January 09, 2008, 05:10:21 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 09, 2008, 02:48:15 PM

Sort of ... I was wrong that Sony was to blame for the whole deal. Toshiba ultimately pulled back, and then HP put forth a last ditch attempt to bridge the gap and Sony were the last to "walk away" from the bargaining table.



Because...HP...put forth...a standard...that would make them and...Microsoft...a lot...of money...and shaft...sony.

Are you having reading comprehension issues lately? You were, in the entirety, completely wrong and misinformed about how it went down.
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« Reply #194 on: January 09, 2008, 05:16:22 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on January 09, 2008, 05:10:21 PM

Quote from: Purge on January 09, 2008, 02:48:15 PM

Sort of ... I was wrong that Sony was to blame for the whole deal. Toshiba ultimately pulled back, and then HP put forth a last ditch attempt to bridge the gap and Sony were the last to "walk away" from the bargaining table.



Because...HP...put forth...a standard...that would make them and...Microsoft...a lot...of money...and shaft...sony.

Are you having reading comprehension issues lately? You were, in the entirety, completely wrong and misinformed about how it went down.

how's that different than Sony setting a standard that will make them lots of money?
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« Reply #195 on: January 09, 2008, 05:38:04 PM »

Quote from: wikipedia
Several members of the Blu-ray organization's Board of Directors who had originally pledged to support Blu-ray Disc later also supported HD DVD, such as Hewlett-Packard, Samsung, and LG.

So HP, who was originally on the board of directors for BLU RAY, is in fact an HD-DVD only supporter? Good fact finding bub. You ask me to read up on it, I do, admit to being misinformed on the Sony responsibility of the first falling out but point out where I had gotten my impression from, and then show where Sony was the last one to back out of it.

Oh, and Gellar, I'm excellent at eating crow. I had chicken balls from the chinese food place downtown last week.
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« Reply #196 on: January 09, 2008, 05:40:48 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 09, 2008, 05:38:04 PM

Oh, and Gellar, I'm excellent at eating crow. I had chicken balls from the chinese food place downtown last week.

OMGRACIST biggrin

gellar
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« Reply #197 on: January 09, 2008, 05:46:52 PM »

Actually, I'm just commenting on poor advertising and a bit of food poisoning. biggrin

I would like to take this opportunity to state that my last comment was in no way meant to belittle or stereotype the (beautiful) peoples of China or their edible animal selections.
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"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
Soulchilde
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« Reply #198 on: January 09, 2008, 06:09:33 PM »

Quote from: depward on January 08, 2008, 10:08:49 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on January 08, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

blu ray player at the 150-125 price point please  thumbsup

Why not purchase a worthwhile blu-ray player / gaming console for a few more bucks?

Honestly, while I wish Sony much success I can't justify owning two consoles.   Currently, I have a PC, 360 and a PSP(which I love btw) for my gaming needs.  I was waiting for a clear winner of the format war before I invested any money into them.  I have a HDTV now I just need a cheap and reliable player.  If it blu-ray so be it, but I'm not spending 400+ on a Blu-ray player
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Quote from: Devil on January 12, 2007, 01:14:38 AM

NiM$
Calvin
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« Reply #199 on: January 09, 2008, 06:25:31 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 09, 2008, 05:38:04 PM

Quote from: wikipedia
Several members of the Blu-ray organization's Board of Directors who had originally pledged to support Blu-ray Disc later also supported HD DVD, such as Hewlett-Packard, Samsung, and LG.

So HP, who was originally on the board of directors for BLU RAY, is in fact an HD-DVD only supporter? Good fact finding bub. You ask me to read up on it, I do, admit to being misinformed on the Sony responsibility of the first falling out but point out where I had gotten my impression from, and then show where Sony was the last one to back out of it.

Oh, and Gellar, I'm excellent at eating crow. I had chicken balls from the chinese food place downtown last week.

Ok, lets pretend I am speaking to you as if you can even pretend to be objective about something you have woefully misrepresented time and again. Let's all presume, against all visible evidence, that you understand that the last party to withdraw from a negotiation is not de facto responsible for the failure of that negotiation. Presuming we can come to a basic understanding about this (which I doubt given the rhetoric), lets move on to your completely subjective portrayal of HP's attempt to "end" the war.

Quote
Hewlett-Packard (HP) made a last attempt to broker a peace between Blu-ray Disc Association and Microsoft. The company demanded that the Blu-ray Disc Association adopt Microsoft's HDi [Microsoft, one of Sony's chief competitors. Also thought to be the money behind HD-DVD's refusal to support a nearly overwhelming desire to adopt the blu-laser standard] instead of its own Java solution, and that Blu-ray Disc adopt a mandatory managed copy feature. If the demands weren't met, HP threatened to support HD DVD instead. [Threatening one side of a negotiation is often seen as an equitable, third party attempt to negotiate an end to a dispute. Especially when you have finanical interest in HDi.]

Emphasis mine, bub.
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