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Question: Have you ever cheated on your spouse?
Never even thought about it - 54 (50%)
Thought about it but not seriously - 33 (30.6%)
Given it serious consideration - 8 (7.4%)
Yes but regretted it - 3 (2.8%)
Yes and not regretted it - 10 (9.3%)
Total Voters: 108

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Biyobi
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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2010, 11:31:31 PM »

Quote from: Crux on November 02, 2010, 06:00:30 PM

Interestingly looking at the results so far, we either have a group of unusually dedicated husbands, or a bunch of liars biggrin

Having seen the OO database of people that have posted their pictures, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most of us you are lucky to have even scored one woman, let alone another. slywink
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theohall
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« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2010, 12:19:56 AM »

Quote from: Crux on November 02, 2010, 06:00:30 PM

Interestingly looking at the results so far, we either have a group of unusually dedicated husbands, or a bunch of liars biggrin

You expected honesty irt cheating on an internet forum???? What r u smoking and can I have some?
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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2010, 01:50:16 AM »

Quote from: Biyobi on November 02, 2010, 11:31:31 PM

Quote from: Crux on November 02, 2010, 06:00:30 PM

Interestingly looking at the results so far, we either have a group of unusually dedicated husbands, or a bunch of liars biggrin

Having seen the OO database of people that have posted their pictures, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most of us you are lucky to have even scored one woman, let alone another. slywink

No question smile  (personally speaking, anyway)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 01:52:55 AM by Laner » Logged
Eel Snave
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« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2010, 01:50:24 AM »

I said that I thought about it in the poll, but definitely not seriously. I've had opportunities, but never really had any desire to take advantage.

For example, I was working in a resort and there was a cute Asian girl who worked in a different department. She would always talk to me, and I was polite and friendly back. However, the chats started getting more frequent, and I was getting concerned.

Finally, one day, I'm sitting at my desk eating some fries, and she sits down on the desk next to me and starts eating some of my fries. I could tell it was a clear signal, so I grabbed a fry with my left hand to show her my ring without showing her my ring.

She noticed immediately. "You're married?!" she said, and I told her how long I had been married and it turned out she knew my wife. After that, she never really talked to me.

So yes, while I have thought about it in a passing way, I have never seriously entertained any notion of cheating on my wife. She's just too cute.
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« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2010, 02:24:16 AM »

My dad cheated on my mom which led to their divorce when I was nine years old. I've had a big problem with adultery ever since that, and have never considered it. My dad basically threw away watching his two boys grow up for the sake of some one-night stand that didn't amount to anything. I've watched him live with that regret every day. Follow in his footsteps? No way in hell. I experienced the pain his decision caused to my mom, to me, to my brother. I can't imagine inflicting that kind of pain on my family.
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« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2010, 02:24:53 AM »

Yeah - having been on the wrong side of that, it's not something that will ever be on my radar of things to do (not that it was before).
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« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2010, 03:23:17 AM »

I'm not made of stone, I've never cheated but I've thought about it and certainly had fantasies involving another person outside of my girlfriend. I've flirted with women, and been flirted with while in relationships. Even wondered what it would of been like to have pursued something with someone and even thought about my exes. Would I do it, I don't know I hope not, because I think cheating is awful and wouldn't want it to happen to me but I cannot say with 100 percent certainty that it will never happen.
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« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2010, 11:29:26 AM »

Quote from: Crux on November 02, 2010, 06:00:30 PM

Interestingly looking at the results so far, we either have a group of unusually dedicated husbands, or a bunch of liars biggrin

Maybe it's just the circles I run in, but cheating on your spouse is extremely rare among the people I know.  I'd say it's very close to - if not lower than - the percentages that we're seeing here.

Is cheating generally that rampant?  I've never bothered to look up any statistics...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 01:44:30 PM by Gratch » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2010, 11:51:50 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on November 03, 2010, 02:24:16 AM

My dad basically threw away watching his two boys grow up for the sake of some one-night stand that didn't amount to anything.

No he didn't. He made a decision about his sexual life and while it may have broken an agreement with your mother, it does not mean he was throwing away seeing his boys grow up.

I would say that instead, his boys were taken from him as punishment (which is generally the case). Having sex with someone else does not invalidate one as a parent (mother or father).

Children should be kept from that information - it really is beyond the scope of the needs of a child (of any age)to carry around them the blame between a married couple. Perhaps there were more reasons than just "weak" for him to have made that decision.

Although I don't know any info on this situation, save for what you've described, the fact of the matter is that those two acts (cheating, losing kids) are mutually exclusive. Unbinding them may help your family - not everything we've been led to believe is the truth and a scorned parent still has the responsibility of acting like a PARENT and keeping their own biases from damaging their childrens' relationships with the other parent.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 11:56:36 AM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2010, 11:59:44 AM »

I'd like to add that one does not get to say "Put out, or I'm taking the kids from you."

Why would the reverse work?
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« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2010, 12:39:05 PM »

18 years of marriage, 0 infidelities.

My wife is just too good in bed (and elsewhere) to even want to cheat. 
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« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2010, 03:29:28 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:39:05 PM

My wife is just too good in bed (and elsewhere) to even want to cheat. 

Your participle is dangling (or something like that). smile
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« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2010, 06:38:04 PM »

I never understood cheating in general.

What I mean is the person that always cheats and yet wants to stay married.  To me, if you are willing to cheat then why bother staying married or in the relationship?

Of course I never understood one killing or attempting to kill their spouse instead of just getting a divorce.  Even if I lose everything in the divorce that beats the hell out of being in prison.

So no cheating for me.  I enjoy being with my wife too much.
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« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2010, 06:52:34 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on November 03, 2010, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: Crux on November 02, 2010, 06:00:30 PM

Interestingly looking at the results so far, we either have a group of unusually dedicated husbands, or a bunch of liars biggrin

Maybe it's just the circles I run in, but cheating on your spouse is extremely rare among the people I know.  I'd say it's very close to - if not lower than - the percentages that we're seeing here.

Is cheating generally that rampant?  I've never bothered to look up any statistics...

How exactly do you know for certain the people in the "circles you run in" are not cheating?  Most people who cheat will also generally lie about cheating, and will be very good at lying.  

- - -

I used to be very judgmental about cheating, but as I've grown older and things in my life took unexpected turns, I've tempered my stance.  Things change, people change, relationships evolve and sometimes the definition of "cheating" is not so black and white.  Is it cheating if you masturbate to porn, or just masturbate by yourself in general?  Is it cheating if you have a serious crush or even fall in love with a co-worker, but never physically act on it?  What about an internet romance or flirting via text or email?  What if you spend all your down time gaming with your buddies instead of paying attention to your spouse?  

You can love someone but perhaps no longer be "in love" with them, or somewhere along the line maybe you lose the sexual part of your relationship.  Some people (men in general) I do believe have the capacity to separate sex from love and emotional connection.  I'm not saying this gives them the "right" to "cheat" on their spouse, but for me, at least, it would change the dynamic of the act of cheating.

In other words, I see lots of grey areas in relationships, so I don't judge the way I used to.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 06:54:50 PM by rittchard » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2010, 07:26:56 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on November 03, 2010, 06:52:34 PM

In other words, I see lots of grey areas in relationships, so I don't judge the way I used to.
   
Well said Rittch.
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« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2010, 07:38:01 PM »

I have, but I would never admit to it in a forum. 
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« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2010, 07:41:01 PM »

Quote from: Purge on November 03, 2010, 11:51:50 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on November 03, 2010, 02:24:16 AM

My dad basically threw away watching his two boys grow up for the sake of some one-night stand that didn't amount to anything.

No he didn't. He made a decision about his sexual life and while it may have broken an agreement with your mother, it does not mean he was throwing away seeing his boys grow up.

I would say that instead, his boys were taken from him as punishment (which is generally the case). Having sex with someone else does not invalidate one as a parent (mother or father).


Couldn't disagree more.  It sure does invalidate you as a parent since you have an obligation to your children to provide them with the best home situation possible.  Breaking your wedding vows to their mother is an insult to them nearly as much as it is to their mom.
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« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2010, 07:50:53 PM »

See, the way I view marriage is as a promise. You promise to be with that person you chose for the rest of your life, and this promise included or implied sexual exclusivity. Therefore, if you cheat, you're breaking your promise. A person who breaks promises is untrustworthy. An untrustworthy person isn't a good parent. QED.
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« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2010, 08:00:47 PM »


Quote from: Mithridates on November 03, 2010, 07:41:01 PM

Quote from: Purge on November 03, 2010, 11:51:50 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on November 03, 2010, 02:24:16 AM

My dad basically threw away watching his two boys grow up for the sake of some one-night stand that didn't amount to anything.

No he didn't. He made a decision about his sexual life and while it may have broken an agreement with your mother, it does not mean he was throwing away seeing his boys grow up.

I would say that instead, his boys were taken from him as punishment (which is generally the case). Having sex with someone else does not invalidate one as a parent (mother or father).


Couldn't disagree more.  It sure does invalidate you as a parent since you have an obligation to your children to provide them with the best home situation possible.  Breaking your wedding vows to their mother is an insult to them nearly as much as it is to their mom.

Not directed at YellowKing's specific situation at all -- but I think there is definitely more shades of gray here than most people are willing to admit.  People do crazy things for sex.  They don't call it a sex 'drive' for nothing.  I believe that you can love your spouse and cheat on her.  People aren't perfect.  My wife and I have had this discussion a few times and  we both are able to separate love from sex.  I think it helps that my wife has a high sex drive and can at least see being tempted.  Now, this is all theory craft of course (as far as I know at least) and we haven't had these types of talks since we had a kid and I have a feeling things have changed a bit from her perspective and frankly I have no interest in having an affair so I haven't bothered to broach the subject.  But, if my wife had an affair I'd still love her and understand that human beings in general like the excitement of flirting/sex with other humans.  I guess I'm pretty confident that emotionally we are a good fit so I don't worry about her falling out of love with me and actually going off with another guy.  

Anyway, that's my somewhat incoherent two cents.  

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« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2010, 08:07:24 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on November 03, 2010, 06:52:34 PM

Quote from: Gratch on November 03, 2010, 11:29:26 AM

Quote from: Crux on November 02, 2010, 06:00:30 PM

Interestingly looking at the results so far, we either have a group of unusually dedicated husbands, or a bunch of liars biggrin

Maybe it's just the circles I run in, but cheating on your spouse is extremely rare among the people I know.  I'd say it's very close to - if not lower than - the percentages that we're seeing here.

Is cheating generally that rampant?  I've never bothered to look up any statistics...

How exactly do you know for certain the people in the "circles you run in" are not cheating?  Most people who cheat will also generally lie about cheating, and will be very good at lying.  


Guess that's true.  I'm just going off the number of breakups and/or divorces that I've seen as a result of infidelity. 
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« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2010, 08:37:00 PM »

Quote
I would say that instead, his boys were taken from him as punishment (which is generally the case). Having sex with someone else does not invalidate one as a parent (mother or father).


However it was the voluntary act to "ruin" the marriage that caused the problem. Divorce with children is rarely amicable and the kids are the ones caught in the middle.
If having sex with someone outside the marriage was more important than the resulting firestorm than he deserved what he got.
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« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2010, 09:10:26 PM »

Quote from: iloveplywood on November 03, 2010, 08:00:47 PM



Not directed at YellowKing's specific situation at all -- but I think there is definitely more shades of gray here than most people are willing to admit.  People do crazy things for sex.  They don't call it a sex 'drive' for nothing.  I believe that you can love your spouse and cheat on her.  People aren't perfect.  My wife and I have had this discussion a few times and  we both are able to separate love from sex.  I think it helps that my wife has a high sex drive and can at least see being tempted.  Now, this is all theory craft of course (as far as I know at least) and we haven't had these types of talks since we had a kid and I have a feeling things have changed a bit from her perspective and frankly I have no interest in having an affair so I haven't bothered to broach the subject.  But, if my wife had an affair I'd still love her and understand that human beings in general like the excitement of flirting/sex with other humans.  I guess I'm pretty confident that emotionally we are a good fit so I don't worry about her falling out of love with me and actually going off with another guy.  

Anyway, that's my somewhat incoherent two cents.  



See, but there is more involved than the sex act itself.  There's the lying to set it up, the lying to cover it up, etc.  For me, it basically boils down to trust.  My wife and I made an agreement when we married that we had an exclusive thing sexually.  Any cheating is basically a breaking of that agreement and the cheating act itself is a lie of sorts.  So, you have all the lies that are involved with it and if my wife cheats, I basically can't trust her again.  She can say she would never do it again, but how would I really know?

So, you can say you'd be fine with it if your wife cheated knowing that it doesn't have to mean she doesn't love you, I suppose, but wouldn't the fact that she wasn't honest with you in the process bother you?  I guess you won't really know unless it happens.  Just like I wouldn't know for certain that I wouldn't give my wife a second chance if she did.

It's interesting because my wife has a friend who cheated on her husband and I just can't even talk to her anymore.  My wife tried to excuse it saying their marriage was bad, but my thought was, okay...if it is so bad, then get a divorce.  You don't get to have sex on the side to try to make things better.  Man up (or woman up, in this case) and have enough respect for your husband to break it off.  Then go have all the sex you want.  Not sure why this kind of stuff pisses me off so much, but like I said earlier, anything having to do with deceit, cheating, lies, etc. really just gets to me.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 09:13:04 PM by The Grue » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2010, 12:09:53 AM »

This.

There ain't no superglue for trust. icon_frown
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« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2010, 12:24:39 AM »

Quote from: Qantaga on November 03, 2010, 07:26:56 PM

Quote from: rittchard on November 03, 2010, 06:52:34 PM

In other words, I see lots of grey areas in relationships, so I don't judge the way I used to.
   
Well said Rittch.

Yep, the older I get the more nuanced everything seems. 
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« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2010, 03:50:26 AM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on November 03, 2010, 07:50:53 PM

See, the way I view marriage is as a promise. You promise to be with that person you chose for the rest of your life, and this promise included or implied sexual exclusivity. Therefore, if you cheat, you're breaking your promise. A person who breaks promises is untrustworthy. An untrustworthy person isn't a good parent. QED.

Well, I guess they should take your kids from you FOREVER if you break a law, which is much more weighted than a promise between two people. I also suppose that you cannot break ANY commitment, no matter what, otherwise you're a liar, or a cheat, and by your definition, a bad an unfit parent.

Life lessons aren't taught in classrooms, and people grow from learning from mistakes. Have you already stopped learning? I'm 34, and I've had to grow both emotionally and logically in the past two years due to a horrid circumstance where my ex-wife has been tainting my (now 7year olds) perception of me.

There is no law to protect him from this behaviour. There is no recourse. I could fight another 10 years in court, I could even win custody and get primary care and control, but you know what? It would turn his childhood into a warzone without me ever once firing a single volley in the ensuing conflict unless they were to strip him of any access to her.

I worked my ass off for 5 years in trying to keep him out of the conflict - FIVE YEARS - and not once have I attacked her character to him. She is one of his two (in my mind, equal) parental figures and I have no interest in tearing down people important to him.

I've never cheated, but the fact that the action between two parents matters not - no kid needs to hear about the dissolution of the marriage, or have their perception tainted of their parents. Those kids have the right to know and learn from both parts of themselves. A child will see both parents in themselves, and when you criticize one or the other, you impact the self-worth of the child (regardless of reassurances - remember they think on their own and can reason things out. They might tell you it's OK, but a child wants to please their parent - gaining approval is a hard-coded response trigger in their mind.

I can teach my child right from wrong, but I'm not raising a miniature me. He's a combination of my family and my partners family, and the expectation that he should be perfect is a misguided notion - therefore how can I hold myself to a perfect ideal? I make mistakes - as an example I sometimes let backtalk get to me, and react to it rather than to rise above it.

That right there is parenting. Being their best friend? That's a second place to making sure they gain the life skills they need to survive and thrive. I want to have fun with my family, but "wants" take a back seat to "needs".

Children NEED their parents, regardless of an act of infidelity. They NEED their parents to respect each other as PARENTS, even if they couldn't as LOVERS.

Perhaps you think in black and white, but IMHO you CAN make mistakes and still be a parent.


I know that less can be more, but I want to drive this point home: who's to say that YK's fathers situation wasn't spurned on by behaviour by his mother? We have no idea what that relationship entailed, and while the act of adultery is considered a violation, it tends to be a result of a relationship that isn't working.

So I say again - "Put out or I'm taking the kids from you." Was the sexual intercourse not also implied in the marital vows (otherwise, how could you be faithful in an act not covered in the contract?). If she wasn't meeting his needs, then the breach occurred before the act of "adultery".

In my experience relationships rarely collapse due to a single, one-sided event.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 03:56:00 AM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2010, 07:45:55 AM »

Very nicely put, Purge- I agree with everything you say. There's more to it than meets the eye.
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« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2010, 09:45:10 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on November 04, 2010, 07:45:55 AM

Very nicely put, Purge- I agree with everything you say. There's more to it than meets the eye.

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« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2010, 01:23:15 PM »

I don't mean to sound bitchy - just like I don't know everything about patent laws, I certainly don't know everything about YK's dad's relationship, and I don't expect people here to know the ins-and-outs of how bad my situation has been/is.

Just as church and state need to separate (as they are mutually exclusive - law vs. moral), so should the PERCEPTION change between marriage and parenting. When I filed for divorce, it was between myself and my wife. That was the only separation. If they had a way of providing us with Logan (let's say through cloning) and I could have remained a full-time parent to him rather than a sub-parent role due to a flaccid judicial system which employs a contention methodology rather than collaborative solutions, I would be there 100%.

It's just f***ing sad that gender roles work in two directions, but only one side has been working to crush that. Men are just as important as women in raising children. Our methods aren't always the same, but I just get tired of the "Dad the buffoon" role that media perpetuates, and we then adopt as OK.

That is why I loved Homer in the early seasons... he was a dad, not a fall-down idiot with a crayon in his head. He wasn't the best dad in the world by any stretch, but he was there for his kids.

Instead we get bandaid commercials that show that dad's plan to go camping is OK in mom's mind, because she has enough band-aid brand bandages to take care of all of dads clumsy attempts to function. If it were reversed and the mother was shown to be incompetent, its likely that commercial would have been stopped in screenings.

Watch a week worth of TV with a notepad, and write down every instance of a fathers portrayal. List the top 3 characteristics of each character, regardless of commercial, print add or TV show. Do the same for mothers.

frown

As it turns out, two heads are NOT better than one.  Head meets wall
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 01:32:19 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2010, 01:54:52 PM »

Well, it beats being a disney mother I guess , but I get your point :-)

In Denmark at least, its not such a big issue - if people break up/divoce and there's kids involved, the kid usually goes to the place best for it, which is often its current school location so it doest have to relocate that as well on top of everything.
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« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2010, 03:12:01 PM »

I think you're arguing a different point then what's been brought up in this thread, Purge. I haven't seen anyone dispute the fact that children generally do much better with two parents. The problem is when the husband (or wife) chooses to break their vows and cheat on their spouse. It's perfectly understandable for the other spouse to file for divorce in that case and that will naturally result in a shared or one-sided custody arrangement, depriving the children of having both parents around at all times. Since, IMO, cheating is NEVER a correct or valid response to any marital problems it is perfectly correct to say that the cheating spouse "basically threw away watching his two boys grow up for the sake of some one-night stand that didn't amount to anything".
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« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2010, 03:50:41 PM »

Nope, you've got those two things in the same basket again.

From YK's perspective, his dad made a mistake with regret - ergo he did something that effectively ruined something valuable to him - his marital vows. He threw away the love and trust of his wife (of x amount of years). If his father did not regret cheating on the mother, but only regretted losing time with/access to his children as a fallout in the breakup, then effectively he had not thrown ANYTHING away - instead he had it taken from him as an act of punishment.

Do courts, in divorce cases where the only issue is unfaithfulness, excommunicate the offender with the children?

Seriously, think about that point.

Your responsibility as a parent for a child supercedes any personal relationships you carry with anyone else. Yes, you chose (or didn't choose, as was my situation) to share in the role of creation and nurturing, but changes in circumstance aren't to be ignored.

There is an old saying that goes something like "A victim is only a victim because they allow themselves to be so." The problem is it doesn't take into account cost of struggle -> I choose to not fight the raping of my parental rights because the fight would damage my children; I endure it because no one can help me and the other party is willing to commit monstrous acts of bad parenting to try and portray me as a villain.

Try participating in an arm-wrestling competition with a Fabergť egg in between the two competing palms - the value of preservation is more important than the value of winning, and when the other party knows that they will leverage it to win.

I hope one day my son can understand. Perhaps GT will still be here, and he'll take the time to read my posts from start to finish as a way of getting to know who his dad really is.

Now, the last couple paragraphs I could expand into a 1400 page post about the crap I've gone through. One of the things (that is relevant to this thread) is that I have endured a marriage where having an affair - ANY positive contact with another woman, would have shaved years off the worst times in my life. It would have been an act of pissing on the fire that was already out. What was left worth saving? The reason I ended the marriage is that I didn't want my son to grow up with a depressed father figure (ooo, the irony).

There are selfish cheaters too, but they tend not to regret their acts. But it's not always weakness that pulls people into bed with others - sometimes misery does it too. When you're drowning, you don't always think about what you grab onto to haul yourself out.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 03:54:47 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2010, 03:57:34 PM »

As to the "result in a shared or one-sided custody arrangement, depriving the children of having both parents around at all times." point, unless you have a housewife or househusband (which indicates a marriage to the home and not their partner), what parent is around all the time? 50/50 is a lot of time with each.

It's just too bad that fathers aren't as important as mothers and that cheaters are bad people who should not see their children.  tear
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« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2010, 04:19:36 PM »

I don't think cheaters shouldn't see their children.  I can understand why the person cheating doesn't get custody, though (assuming there aren't other issues where the cheater's cheating might have been the least offense in the marriage).  I do think that if a spouse gets cheated on, they have every right to end that marriage, children or not.  In all honesty, though, if the cheater really cared about the children, that love should have been strong enough to keep them from cheating.  People are selfish, though.  If I am reading you right, Purge, you are saying the courts are to blame for this culture of taking kids away from the cheater, but in the end, it is nobody's fault but the cheater.
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« Reply #73 on: November 04, 2010, 05:49:23 PM »

When I was headed off to the military after college, my dad shared with me that he wasn't sure if my mom ever loved him.  It was the saddest thing I had ever heard him say.  In his father son moment prior to me shipping off, that was what he shared with me.  My sister and I knew something wasn't right considering my mom and dad slept in different rooms going on 10 years or so. 

But to actually hear my dad say, "I've always loved her, but I don't think she's ever loved me.  I'm afraid I may have given my best years to the wrong person."  And here's the part that really stung, "But I stayed loyal because of you and your sister.  But now that you are getting ready to leave..."  And then more crying.  Now my dad wasn't a sissy, he was a Vietnam vet, career Army combat veteran, and generally a hardass.  At the time I had no idea how to respond.  3 years later he died of cancer while I was deployed overseas...loyal and faithful to my mom to the end.  He even set her up well with a nice insurance policy so she would be taken care of for the rest of her life.     

Looking back, that conversation was one of the saddest moments of my life.  A man devoted his entire life to someone who didn't love him back...all for the sake of the kids.  My sister and I have talked about it since, and we both agree that we wish my dad would've just made a move, and found someone that would have made him happy.  If I could go back in time and change things, I would want my dad to have been happy, not bound into unhappiness by a promise he made when was 23 years old. 

I agree with the importance and value of loyalty and fidelity, but there needs to be some room for understanding when things just donít work out.  People make mistakes, particularly when choosing who they think is their life long match.  Iím happy to see from the responses that most of the community here has an amazing ability to select their life long mates on their first try, but I donít think thatís the norm. 
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« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2010, 06:42:10 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on November 04, 2010, 05:49:23 PM


I agree with the importance and value of loyalty and fidelity, but there needs to be some room for understanding when things just donít work out.  People make mistakes, particularly when choosing who they think is their life long match.  Iím happy to see from the responses that most of the community here has an amazing ability to select their life long mates on their first try, but I donít think thatís the norm. 


I agree with you 100%.  My beef is fucking around on the side while still married.  If you think this person isn't the right one for you, then by all means, get a divorce and go figure it out.  Too many people are too cowardly and don't want to be alone or want that comfort of the person they've known for so many years and have something on the side (the proverbial cake and eat it, too).  Your dad totally should have gotten out of the marriage and it sounds like he had enough integrity that had he made that choice, he would have cut it off first and then went out dating.
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« Reply #75 on: November 04, 2010, 06:51:10 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on November 04, 2010, 04:19:36 PM

I don't think cheaters shouldn't see their children.  I can understand why the person cheating doesn't get custody, though (assuming there aren't other issues where the cheater's cheating might have been the least offense in the marriage).  I do think that if a spouse gets cheated on, they have every right to end that marriage, children or not.  In all honesty, though, if the cheater really cared about the children, that love should have been strong enough to keep them from cheating.  People are selfish, though.  If I am reading you right, Purge, you are saying the courts are to blame for this culture of taking kids away from the cheater, but in the end, it is nobody's fault but the cheater.

No, I'm saying parental responsibilities have nothing to do with the relationship dynamics of married couples, and in the case where the children are safe with either parents, it should be that the children's rights to have up to equal time with each should be protected by law.

If someone wants to be a "weekend dad" or "weekend mom" that is a negotiation process between the parenting team of those children, and support costs etc. can be worked out to compensate for the lightened load of time.

(eg. if party A only wanted kids every other weekend, then because the cost of living is borne by the other party to a larger degree, they should be receiving a fair compensation based on income earnings so the child doesn't suffer.)

In the case where both parents take 50% time, then the cost of living is shared equally. Table values based on income are owed from both parties to each other, and the higher earner pays the difference to the lower income earner.

Back onto cheating though: Imagine having a partner who is emotionally abusive, or uses sex as leverage. Terminating the marriage before going elsewhere is the best method, but perhaps the damage done to the self esteem doesn't illicit a healthy choice at that point in time. From my perspective, both parties are at fault. Just because there was a "cheat" involved doesn't vindicate the actions of the other party that drove the cheater into the arms of another. As such the "Cheat" only serves to justify the divorce- it doesn't indicate guilt or greater responsibility for the failure unless there is a monetary fight in which consideration can be given.

Children and their access doesn't factor into this.

It doesn't mean I condone the action of infidelity - it is a violation of trust. But the measurement of parent-worthiness is not related to either the act of having extramarital sex / or withholding sex from your partner.

Momentary lapse in judgement shouldn't carry any more punishment than is meted out by law, otherwise even a mis-demeanor should have the courts yanking children from their parents permanently.
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« Reply #76 on: November 04, 2010, 09:46:52 PM »

I have. Dozens, perhaps hundreds of times.  Every time I looked at porn, I was cheating on my wife.  

I have a pretty good idea of the response I'll get to this post so save your virtual breath.  Measured against God's measure of fidelity, it's absolutely true.
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« Reply #77 on: November 04, 2010, 10:03:55 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on November 04, 2010, 05:49:23 PM



But to actually hear my dad say, "I've always loved her, but I don't think she's ever loved me.  I'm afraid I may have given my best years to the wrong person."  And here's the part that really stung, "But I stayed loyal because of you and your sister. 


Wow. icon_cry
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« Reply #78 on: November 05, 2010, 12:00:02 AM »

Quote from: Purge on November 04, 2010, 03:50:41 PM

There are selfish cheaters too, but they tend not to regret their acts. But it's not always weakness that pulls people into bed with others - sometimes misery does it too. When you're drowning, you don't always think about what you grab onto to haul yourself out.

This was one of the most beautifully, painfully written and poignant statements I've seen on these forums, thanks for that Purge.  Between this and Roguetad's story, I feel like I need a good cry for about an hour or so.

- - -

To some of the rest of you guys, if things are really as great as they are in your marriages and relationships that you've never considered cheating, you should really count yourselves as lucky and tell your wives/spouses how much you appreciate them every day  icon_razz  Call me a cynic, but frankly I would love to jump forward in time 5-10 years and see how many of the responses here were still exactly the same.
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« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2010, 12:02:36 AM »

Could have?  Yes.
Considered it?   Yup.
Fantasized about it?  Absolutely.
Ever done it?  Nope.
Will never do it?  Not sure.

End of the day, I don't see myself as cheating.  If it's gotten to the point where I'm actively trying to bone another chick, it's probably to the point I should break up with the current one.  Could it happen?  Yeah, sure - I'm only human.
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