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Author Topic: Has Art regressed?  (Read 3587 times)
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hepcat
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« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2008, 08:05:59 PM »

Quote from: Purge on August 11, 2008, 08:02:34 PM

Quote from: kathode on August 09, 2008, 04:09:35 PM

I think you just have to figure out what you like and zero in on stuff like that, like you would with music or cinema or even games.  

I think what bothers me about art is this: there are those who would tell you that you're less-than simply because you don't "get" it; they themselves don't "have" it, they simply gravitate to a BS piece and give it false depth.

the technical term for those folks is "a$$holes" and they can be found flitting around pretty much anywhere in life.   icon_wink
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« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2008, 08:26:24 PM »

ok

Semaj-o-rant coming, so skip past if ya dont like em... smile

Modern art is generally a hunk of steaming crap that claims to be art.

We went to the Albright-Knox Art Gallery in buffalo.  I am not a fan of art tbo, more often than not someone sits there and tells you what to think and feel and you wanna let him know how full of it he is.  But I went in and just looked at the art on display.

this painting blew me away.  I sat there looking at it, the detail involved and wondered how someone has the ability to paint so well.  I almost felt like I was there and to me, this is art in it's highest form.  No, not all paintings do this.  To me and my o so untrained eye, this is where art should be.  Not always painting something lifelike, but something that shows a degree of skill and talent of which we should all be amazed for.  Most people on the planet will never do anything remotely close, instead now they go for other emotions.

And thats the problem with modern art.  More often than not, they use it to make a statement on society because the work itself wouldn't stand out in a room of 8 year olds.   When we hit the modern art section, the first thign we saw was a red bumpy canvas.  A woman melted lipstick on the canvas to point out mens dominance of women for the last bajillion years.

Is that art?  Yes, it's modern art.  It also was a steaming pile of dog doo claiming to be good art.  Your art should not be your way of whining about your life, it should speak to people because of it's beauty and skill.

Now, I agree with the comment on those squiggly lines.  I dislike them for the most part.  I think anyone and their brother can do them.  But this actually started a giant debate amongst my have gone to art galleries friends.  It takes a certain talent to draw those squiggly lines in a way thats pleasing to the eye and most of them found the image pleasing.  As such I cannot say all modern art is godawful.  I do however think it's deteriorated in level because quite a few artists are doing bad art and using it as a message to complain about something they don't like.  One would assume it's not all bad because I'm sure I've seen artwork I loved that would qualify as modern.

But, for the most part, old school art is about trying to make things look beautiful or provoke a happy response.  Modern art is more about putting out a message, usually whiny in nature.

I think there are amazingly talented artists out there, I just dont get to see most of em in galleries.
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« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2008, 08:32:42 PM »

Quote from: Purge on August 11, 2008, 08:02:34 PM

Quote from: kathode on August 09, 2008, 04:09:35 PM

I think you just have to figure out what you like and zero in on stuff like that, like you would with music or cinema or even games.  

I think what bothers me about art is this: there are those who would tell you that you're less-than simply because you don't "get" it; they themselves don't "have" it, they simply gravitate to a BS piece and give it false depth.

That's a subset of Artists or Critics or Humanities Students or the like.  Let the haters, hate.  Take what you can from those that don't hate.  It's pretty cool to gain perspective about something you already enjoy from the passionate, who don't profess to "have it," but do have a broad frame of reference and talk about it.  Especially when they are practicing artists and talk you in such a way as guide you into "getting it" because "it" is what they are passionate about it.  Rather than alienating you, they are giving you expression and interpretation.  They'll communicate for attempts at "success" rather than as attempts as some sort of weapon.
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hepcat
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« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2008, 08:41:15 PM »

Quote from: Semaj on August 11, 2008, 08:26:24 PM


But, for the most part, old school art is about trying to make things look beautiful or provoke a happy response. 

Sometimes art is supposed to provoke a negative response.  dismissing anything that doesn't make you feel happy and warm inside only serves as a great injustice to yourself.  My favorite painting is Edward Hoppers' Nighthawks:



However, when I see it I don't feel happy or see it as beautiful.  Instead, I feel intense sadness and a sense of isolation.  But it haunts me.  It's the same reason I watch films like Alien and enjoy them:  I appreciate (sometimes) the ability to provoke a reaction from me...and not necessarily a happy one.  I'm not saying I take it to ridiculous extremes (hoping for someone to make a snuff film or watching german porn) but I also understand that the human condition encompasses more than just happiness and contentment.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 08:46:14 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2008, 12:42:11 AM »

Quote from: The Grue on August 11, 2008, 06:12:02 PM

Now, see, this is why art is subjective.  While I think the paintings are nice, they aren't something I would want hanging in my house as the subject matter doesn't appeal to me.  Yet, some of the modern art that is just bare bones from a technical standpoint, but carries a message, would immediately go up.  
Graph paper!  Tongue icon_wink
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« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2008, 06:42:38 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on August 11, 2008, 06:18:53 PM

I actually consider learning about the 1919 Paris Armory show to be one of the highlights of my brief tenure as an art major
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hepcat
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« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2008, 03:47:10 PM »

Quote from: Grundbegriff on August 12, 2008, 06:42:38 AM

Quote from: hepcat on August 11, 2008, 06:18:53 PM

I actually consider learning about the 1919 Paris Armory show to be one of the highlights of my brief tenure as an art major


 icon_confused
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« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2008, 01:33:33 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on August 11, 2008, 08:41:15 PM

Valid argument made...

Ok, hepcat, you dont see how arguing on forums go.  There will be no logic used, no common sense, no facts or numbers or links that back your claim, unless they are made fo whole cloth.  No competent arguing please... smile

Ok, I can accept you like a painting that makes you lonely and depressed it brings about an emotion in you and you feel the painting has touched you in ways that are not "bad touch". 

But, on the other end of the spectrum, putting shit on a stick would make me feel repulsed/grossed out/highly irritated.  Should I congratulate the artist who brought out these emotions or point out it really just is shit on a stick?
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hepcat
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« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2008, 01:49:57 AM »

Quote from: Semaj on August 13, 2008, 01:33:33 AM

Quote from: hepcat on August 11, 2008, 08:41:15 PM

Valid argument made...

Ok, hepcat, you dont see how arguing on forums go.  There will be no logic used, no common sense, no facts or numbers or links that back your claim, unless they are made fo whole cloth.  No competent arguing please... smile

Ok, I can accept you like a painting that makes you lonely and depressed it brings about an emotion in you and you feel the painting has touched you in ways that are not "bad touch". 

But, on the other end of the spectrum, putting shit on a stick would make me feel repulsed/grossed out/highly irritated.  Should I congratulate the artist who brought out these emotions or point out it really just is shit on a stick?

 icon_biggrin to the first part

as for the second, obviously there are going to be extremes that can't have their existence justified by anyone who you'd actually want to spend more than 3 minutes alone with (the aforementioned german porn and snuff films, for example).  but this thread seemed to be saying at times that all modern art was crap because it either didn't look photo realistic, didn't make the viewer happy or didn't fit into one of the other boxes that a viewer felt comfortable with.  all those feelings are fine, by the way.  art is subjective to the whims of the individual audience.  i'm just trying to say that i enjoy quite a bit of modern art and that i actually do feel that the stuff i like is, in fact, art.

p.s. just out of curiosity, how does Nighthawks make you feel?  actually, i'd love to hear what others think of when they see that painting. i love hopper's work but almost all of it gives me a sense of sadness.  i've always wondered why, though.
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« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2008, 04:35:53 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on August 13, 2008, 01:49:57 AM


p.s. just out of curiosity, how does Nighthawks make you feel?  actually, i'd love to hear what others think of when they see that painting. i love hopper's work but almost all of it gives me a sense of sadness.  i've always wondered why, though.

Hopper is one of my favorite artists, and that is among his best paintings. It suggests fellowship among strangers, a refuge from the impersonal night. Just the opposite of isolation, really. Being alone together.
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Semaj
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« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2008, 04:59:45 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on August 13, 2008, 01:49:57 AM

Quote from: Semaj on August 13, 2008, 01:33:33 AM

Quote from: hepcat on August 11, 2008, 08:41:15 PM

Valid argument made...

Ok, hepcat, you dont see how arguing on forums go.  There will be no logic used, no common sense, no facts or numbers or links that back your claim, unless they are made fo whole cloth.  No competent arguing please... smile

Ok, I can accept you like a painting that makes you lonely and depressed it brings about an emotion in you and you feel the painting has touched you in ways that are not "bad touch". 

But, on the other end of the spectrum, putting shit on a stick would make me feel repulsed/grossed out/highly irritated.  Should I congratulate the artist who brought out these emotions or point out it really just is shit on a stick?

 icon_biggrin to the first part

as for the second, obviously there are going to be extremes that can't have their existence justified by anyone who you'd actually want to spend more than 3 minutes alone with (the aforementioned german porn and snuff films, for example).  but this thread seemed to be saying at times that all modern art was crap because it either didn't look photo realistic, didn't make the viewer happy or didn't fit into one of the other boxes that a viewer felt comfortable with.  all those feelings are fine, by the way.  art is subjective to the whims of the individual audience.  i'm just trying to say that i enjoy quite a bit of modern art and that i actually do feel that the stuff i like is, in fact, art.

p.s. just out of curiosity, how does Nighthawks make you feel?  actually, i'd love to hear what others think of when they see that painting. i love hopper's work but almost all of it gives me a sense of sadness.  i've always wondered why, though.

I never got isolationism from it either.

To me it's more like: "Another night at the bar"

And before you think "it's not a bar"  There is a certain level of camaradaree that can buildup amongst us people who close the bar on a regular basis where we no longer are a pack of strangers but in a sense a community or a small knit family of somewhat friends.  I get more of a feeling of that than alone and isolationalism.  But I can see how you would get it from the one guy on the corner....
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« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2008, 11:47:08 AM »

To the isolation, the street is empty, the diner is mostly empty, void not only people but of stuff, and within it you have a couple and what looks like soda jerk or short order cook talking to the couple and then another man off sitting by himself.  The jerk and couple are in the light and the man by himself, even though he is the center of painting is in shadow there is illumination in the night all around him.

My preference, though is for the first issue of The Tick's interpretation.  "I got a straw!"
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« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2008, 12:24:03 PM »

Quote from: LordMortis on August 13, 2008, 11:47:08 AM

To the isolation, the street is empty, the diner is mostly empty, void not only people but of stuff, and within it you have a couple and what looks like soda jerk or short order cook talking to the couple and then another man off sitting by himself.  The jerk and couple are in the light and the man by himself, even though he is the center of painting is in shadow there is illumination in the night all around him.

My preference, though is for the first issue of The Tick's interpretation.  "I got a straw!"

 icon_lol  i always loved that they took the diner from that painting and used it in The Tick. 

I guess personal interpretation of Nighthawks boils down to "who do you identify most with in that painting". 

...and that makes me realize I need to get out and socialize more!   icon_eek
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 12:25:57 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2008, 02:53:50 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on August 13, 2008, 01:49:57 AM

p.s. just out of curiosity, how does Nighthawks make you feel?  actually, i'd love to hear what others think of when they see that painting. i love hopper's work but almost all of it gives me a sense of sadness.  i've always wondered why, though.

Moths to the flame. The light is pushing back the night (as evidenced on the closed shops on the other side and the shadows). I feel like the shopkeeper is happy to have company; the one man is contemplative and a little alone, and although enjoys having others there would rather be alone.

The other two are having a late night and are happily chatting with the shopkeeper.
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