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Author Topic: Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows: P-DAY +2 (impressions/spoilers within)  (Read 7275 times)
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2007, 05:28:59 AM »

Ike,

Spoiler for Hiden:

Horcruxes:

1.  Diary
2.  Ring
3.  Cup
4.  Diadem
5.  Nagini
6.  Locket
7.  Harry
8.  Voldemort (technically there were 8 horcruxes- creating the 8th in Harry was inadvertent and Voldemort was unaware)

There wasn't one for each of the houses since Vodemort really couldn't get his hands on anything significant to Gryffindor. 

Cup horcrux- that was in Book 6.  One of the Penseive sequences had Vodemort visiting an elderly woman while he was in procurement for Borgins and he finds out that she has the Cup.  He goes back later and kills her. 

Draco and the wand- Draco was the one who disarmed and "defeated" Dumbledore.  Snape killing him was irrelevant since Dumbledore didn't have the wand then.  Harry became master of it when he disarmed Draco (I believe that was in Malfoy Manor). 

Neville got the sword of Gryffindor because it will appear to any "true Gryffindor" in times of need.  That was what Dumbledore said in Chamber of Secrets when Harry pulled the sword out of the Sorting Hat to defeat the Basilisk. 

I liked Draco's redemption because it wasn't an obvious full turn.  He's very clearly reluctant to identify Harry and Hermione at Malfoy Manor and even when Draco confronts Harry in the Room of Requirement he doesn't want to kill them like Crabbe and Goyle do.  He shows some regret for his actions but he wasn't going to become buddies with them either.  Actually helping Harry would have been akin to a death sentence and while Draco clearly has some regrets, he just isn't that selfless. 
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« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2007, 12:56:56 PM »

Kevin,

Spoiler for Hiden:
Harry was an inadvertant Horcrux, which was why I didn't include him.  But Voldemort?  Can you be your own horcrux?

Also if the cup was revealed in one of the pensieve sequences in book 6, when did Harry find out about it or figure it out or figure out where it was?  The whole beginning quarter of the book is devoted to them wandering around aimlessly because they don't have a clue to where any of the horcruxes are except the locket.

Also, what was the point of the point of the gift of the book of fairy tales to Hermione.  I mean, obviously it was to set them on the path of looking for the hallows, but that was a red herring.  Why would Dumbledore have taken the chance of setting them on a quest that would distract them from the horcruxes?  For that matter, the whole deathly hallows "subplot" seems a little unnecessary in hindsight.
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« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2007, 01:42:52 PM »

Ike,

Spoiler for Hiden:
It's kind of semantics but it wasn't so much that there were seven horcruxes but that Vodemort wanted to split his soul into seven parts.  But the final part had to be in Voldemort's body.  So technically I suppose you could say the plan was for six horcruxes.  Kind of interesting- Voldemort's plan was for seven pieces of his soul because seven was such a strong number magically but he inadvertently splits his sould into eight which might have made him weaker than he would have otherwise.

Harry knows that the cup is a likely horcrux in Book 6 (he and Dumbledore discuss it) but neither had a lead on where the cup was.  So when they were wandering around aimlessly in the beginning it was more a question of *where* the hiding places were than what the actual horcrux was.  That's why Harry tells them when they go into Gringott's to be on the lookout for a cup but that it could technically be anything. 

The Hallows subplot is actually essential (this is going to be long):

What Dumbledore doesn't tell Harry, of course, is that he's the final Horcrux and that he will have sacrifice himself to destroy it.  Harry has to *choose* to die in the end and, in the process, basically perform the same sacrifice that his mother did, choosing death in an effort to save someone else (in Harry's case many "someone elses"). 

So he essentially gives Harry clues to the complete opposite of the Horcrux quest- the Hallows.  The whole idea of the Horcrux quest is that Harry must sacrifice himself in the end.  Those who are followers of the Hallows hunt (Xeno Lovegood, Gruwenvald, and even Dumbedore himself to an extent) are seeking to avoid sacrifice and become "Death's Master" as perhaps a method to immortality. 

So for Harry to truly come to terms with self sacrifice he had to have a choice between that and the opposite- becoming so powerful that he could defeat Voldemort without sacrifice.  Dumbledore offers him this choice but in a manner in which he knows that Harry won't be able to act rashly on it.  Especially because the search for the Hallows is, on some level, easier than the search for Horcruxes.   There are only three items- Harry already has one of them (the cloak), suspects he has another (the ring instead the snitch), and knows the location of the last (the wand, either in Dumbledore's tomb or with Voldemort himself later). 

So Dumbedore lays out this quest for Harry with these breadcrumbs, knowing Harry's character enough to understand that given enough time to think on it, Harry will choose the Horcrux hunt and in the end self-sacrifice.  I forgot the quote but I think that was the core of what Dumbledore was saying in his will when he gave him the snitch.   Of course, Dumbledore did put one final level of protection in for Harry since Harry actually couldn't obtain all of the Hallows until he had already made the right choice. 

And that's what Dobby's death essentially does for Harry- while digging his grave, he makes the choice for the Horcruxes over the Hallows and, after seeing the pensieve with Snape's memories, comes to terms with the need to sacrifice himself.  That was the point of that long journey in middle portion of the book (which I personally loved)- it was very much a necessary growing experience for Harry.

Of course, that's what ultimately allows him to live.  Had he gone the route of the Hallows, he might have been able to defeat Voldmort head-on, destroying Voldy's current body but even had Harry destroyed the rest of the Horcruxes, Voldemort would still live inside of Harry.

A really good point from someone on another message board- Voldemort, Dumbledore, and Harry are essentially the three brothers from the Hallows Fairy Tale.  Voldemort seeks the Wand so he can defeat all of his enemies (and in the process brings about his downfall), Dumbledore seeks the ring to bring back the dead (and in the process ends his life as well), but it's Harry who actually meets Death on his own terms.   

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« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2007, 03:05:47 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 23, 2007, 01:42:52 PM

Ike,

Spoiler for Hiden:
It's kind of semantics but it wasn't so much that there were seven horcruxes but that Vodemort wanted to split his soul into seven parts.  But the final part had to be in Voldemort's body.  So technically I suppose you could say the plan was for six horcruxes.  Kind of interesting- Voldemort's plan was for seven pieces of his soul because seven was such a strong number magically but he inadvertently splits his sould into eight which might have made him weaker than he would have otherwise.

Harry knows that the cup is a likely horcrux in Book 6 (he and Dumbledore discuss it) but neither had a lead on where the cup was.  So when they were wandering around aimlessly in the beginning it was more a question of *where* the hiding places were than what the actual horcrux was.  That's why Harry tells them when they go into Gringott's to be on the lookout for a cup but that it could technically be anything. 

The Hallows subplot is actually essential (this is going to be long):






What Dumbledore doesn't tell Harry, of course, is that he's the final Horcrux and that he will have sacrifice himself to destroy it.  Harry has to *choose* to die in the end and, in the process, basically perform the same sacrifice that his mother did, choosing death in an effort to save someone else (in Harry's case many "someone elses"). 

So he essentially gives Harry clues to the complete opposite of the Horcrux quest- the Hallows.  The whole idea of the Horcrux quest is that Harry must sacrifice himself in the end.  Those who are followers of the Hallows hunt (Xeno Lovegood, Gruwenvald, and even Dumbedore himself to an extent) are seeking to avoid sacrifice and become "Death's Master" as perhaps a method to immortality. 

So for Harry to truly come to terms with self sacrifice he had to have a choice between that and the opposite- becoming so powerful that he could defeat Voldemort without sacrifice.  Dumbledore offers him this choice but in a manner in which he knows that Harry won't be able to act rashly on it.  Especially because the search for the Hallows is, on some level, easier than the search for Horcruxes.   There are only three items- Harry already has one of them (the cloak), suspects he has another (the ring instead the snitch), and knows the location of the last (the wand, either in Dumbledore's tomb or with Voldemort himself later). 

So Dumbedore lays out this quest for Harry with these breadcrumbs, knowing Harry's character enough to understand that given enough time to think on it, Harry will choose the Horcrux hunt and in the end self-sacrifice.  I forgot the quote but I think that was the core of what Dumbledore was saying in his will when he gave him the snitch.   Of course, Dumbledore did put one final level of protection in for Harry since Harry actually couldn't obtain all of the Hallows until he had already made the right choice. 

And that's what Dobby's death essentially does for Harry- while digging his grave, he makes the choice for the Horcruxes over the Hallows and, after seeing the pensieve with Snape's memories, comes to terms with the need to sacrifice himself.  That was the point of that long journey in middle portion of the book (which I personally loved)- it was very much a necessary growing experience for Harry.

Of course, that's what ultimately allows him to live.  Had he gone the route of the Hallows, he might have been able to defeat Voldmort head-on, destroying Voldy's current body but even had Harry destroyed the rest of the Horcruxes, Voldemort would still live inside of Harry.

A really good point from someone on another message board- Voldemort, Dumbledore, and Harry are essentially the three brothers from the Hallows Fairy Tale.  Voldemort seeks the Wand so he can defeat all of his enemies (and in the process brings about his downfall), Dumbledore seeks the ring to bring back the dead (and in the process ends his life as well), but it's Harry who actually meets Death on his own terms.   




J.K. Rowling is a amazing writer.  Btw, i agree with what Kevin wrote in his spoiler
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« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2007, 03:46:06 PM »

Spoiler for Concerning the ending:
Now that I've had time to think about it, in a way the whole book kind of precluded anyone from really spoiling anything.  None of the big Three died and Voldemort was defeated in the end.  You had to expect a bunch of the supporting cast to kick off, but none of them were what I'd consider major deaths- Hedwig (probably the biggest death out of all of them), Dobby, Fred (don't you know the comedic sidekick always dies?), Mad Eye, Lupin and Tonk were more of bit characters when you consider the grand scope of things (or at least that's how they felt to me).  Hagrid, Ron or Hermione dying, not that would have been big.  So in essence what would anyone really say about how it ends except for 'Harry lived and beat Voldemort'?

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« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2007, 04:10:29 PM »

Ceekay, I think you're right- it wasn't nearly as hard to spoil as HBP  was with's it's rather succinct (HBP spoiler just in case)
Spoiler for Hiden:
Snape Kills Dumbledore

(Book 7 Spoiler)
Spoiler for Hiden:
The only deaths I would really have considered "big" in this one would be the core trio.  Hagrid to a degree but, honestly, he's been a pretty minor character for the last half of the series.  Rowling did say that a character got a reprieve from a planned death and I do think it was Hagrid. 

I actually find most of the Book 7 deaths sadder than Hagrid dying- Fred (for what I stated above and the idea that he's still so young with such a potential future) and Lupin because I loved his character and founded it especially sad that he had just become a father. 

Also felt kind of bad for poor Colin Creevey. 

I'm honestly happy that she didn't kill off any more than she did though.  She did her job- after the opening battle I didn't necessarilly think anyone was safe. 
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« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2007, 05:57:31 PM »

All done! But I have this sad feeling now....

Finishing a great series is always a little depressing for me.  Whether its a great movie series, books, and especially videogames does this to me.
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« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2007, 06:06:44 PM »

Quote from: USMC Kato on July 23, 2007, 05:57:31 PM

All done! But I have this sad feeling now....

Finishing a great series is always a little depressing for me.  Whether its a great movie series, books, and especially videogames does this to me.

I thought the same thing.  It seems like so many series that I enjoy are still ongoing (Malazan Book of the Fallen, Song of Ice and Fire, Gentlemen Bastards, and lots, lots more) that I was almost excited to be picking up Deathly Hallows just on the basis that I was actually holding the final volume in something that I own.  Having a completed series is almost unique in itself.

But now it's just depressing not to have the promise of more stories in this universe with these characters.  Especially since Rowling is so rich that I know she won't every be tempted to return just to pay the mortgage. 

Oddly, I don't feel the same way about movies and even TV shows.  Maybe it's the fact they are so easily rewatchable.  As much as I love the LOTR films, for example, I didn't feel sad at all after watching Return of the King since I knew that i would soon have it in my DVD collection and could watch any of the films any time I felt like it. 
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« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2007, 06:21:28 PM »

Quote from: USMC Kato on July 23, 2007, 05:57:31 PM

All done! But I have this sad feeling now....

Finishing a great series is always a little depressing for me.  Whether its a great movie series, books, and especially videogames does this to me.

oddly enough, after finishing the book and going to bed at 7am Sunday morning, I had a depressing dream that all of my close friends were moving away.  Maybe it was coincidence or the fact that the series was over wormed its way into my subconscious.
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« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2007, 06:38:42 PM »

Has Rowling said that she won't write any more books in the HP universe?  Or just more HP books?
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« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2007, 06:41:39 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on July 23, 2007, 06:38:42 PM

Has Rowling said that she won't write any more books in the HP universe?  Or just more HP books?

The only thing that sounds like it's likely is the Encyclopedia (comprised of her notes) that she would do for charity like she did the Quidditch and Magical Beast books.  Otherwise she said that right now the answer is that she has no plans but she's not dumb enough to say never and burn any bridges. 

I'm hoping that if she does do the Encyclopedia maybe she could be persuaded to put in some short story-like snippets offering some little glimpses into the characters and world post Deathly Hallows. 
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« Reply #91 on: July 23, 2007, 06:48:18 PM »

Hopefully she does, but she's probably made so much money she could retire at this point (I think she's worth a billion or more).  I wonder how long it will take for rumours of a HP related TV series to start flying around.....
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« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2007, 07:11:40 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 23, 2007, 06:48:18 PM

Hopefully she does, but she's probably made so much money she could retire at this point (I think she's worth a billion or more).  I wonder how long it will take for rumours of a HP related TV series to start flying around.....

Last I heard she was considered wealthier than the Queen of England.


She deserves a break from Harry Potter and if I was her I won't even be thinking about another series.   She alread said she won't allow another writer to pick up with Harry Potter, but I'm if that means another writer could write a book in her universe
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« Reply #93 on: July 24, 2007, 02:54:59 AM »

Just got done and agree that it was a very good book.

Spoiler for Hiden:
-Loved how Snape is shown in such a personal matter and I actually felt really bad for him.  Wonderful writing as usual. 

-Felt bad when Dobby died and especially bad when Fred tied.  Mad-Eye's death didn't have quite as much of an impact on me.  He didn't seem to fear death at all.  The deaths of Tonks and Lupin were sad as well.

-Loved when Molly Weasly took down Bellatrix.  I imagine that scene will get a rather loud round of applause in the movie.

-Neville was pretty badass in this book showing that possibly he could have succeeded if he was chosen instead of Harry.

-I liked the whole idea of the Deathly Hallows and how Harry had to choose between those and the horcruxes.

-I think the book should have ended with the final chapter and not the 19 year later thing.  That was all pretty much assumed anyway.

-Very glad Hermione didn't die.  I accidentally saw that spoiler on another message board and I was very happy it didn't happen.


Sad the see the series end and I seriously hope the next 2 movies do the books justice.

EDIT:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Hedwig frown
also,
Didnt think we would see Umbrige again... that bitch.  While we're on the bitch subject... Rita Skeeter... yuck.
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« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2007, 03:34:16 AM »

The thing about Rita Skeeter was...
Spoiler for Hiden:
  a lot of that stuff that she wrote turned out to be correct.  I thought that was pretty ingenious on Rowling's part- we're predisposed not to believe the dark stuff about Dumbledore to begin with but to have it come from someone like Rita Skeeter, makes it all the more shocking when a lot of it was true.
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« Reply #95 on: July 24, 2007, 03:40:41 AM »

Still plodding along in the book and thoroughly enjoying it!

I saw on the front page of the newspaper that book 7 sold 8.3 million copies in 24 hours. Guess the initial US printing of 12 million was a good call. They'll probably be all gone in another day or so.
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« Reply #96 on: July 24, 2007, 03:49:33 AM »

Quote from: PaulBot on July 24, 2007, 03:40:41 AM

Still plodding along in the book and thoroughly enjoying it!

I saw on the front page of the newspaper that book 7 sold 8.3 million copies in 24 hours. Guess the initial US printing of 12 million was a good call. They'll probably be all gone in another day or so.

I imagine the presses started printing more copies even before the book went on sale, but yeah, that's an impressive number.
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« Reply #97 on: July 24, 2007, 03:49:52 AM »

Some things I'd would have liked to see more finish on

Spoiler for Hiden:
Why at the end of book 6 did Dumbledore insist Harry make one last trip to the Dursleys?  I didn't see any big plot points that made this necessary.

Aunt Petunia's role in all this, did the letter she wrote to Hogwarts get her accepted in?  Did she then refuse to go?

A wrap up of the Dursleys in general, what happened to them, where did they go etc.  Also I think it would have been funny if in the epilogue Dudley's kid was also heading to Hogwarts.


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« Reply #98 on: July 24, 2007, 03:54:03 AM »

Quote from: Zinfan on July 24, 2007, 03:49:52 AM

Some things I'd would have liked to see more finish on

Spoiler for Hiden:
Why at the end of book 6 did Dumbledore insist Harry make one last trip to the Dursleys?  I didn't see any big plot points that made this necessary.

Aunt Petunia's role in all this, did the letter she wrote to Hogwarts get her accepted in?  Did she then refuse to go?

A wrap up of the Dursleys in general, what happened to them, where did they go etc.  Also I think it would have been funny if in the epilogue Dudley's kid was also heading to Hogwarts.



Spoiler for Hiden:
1) He insisted he go back because of the protective spells.  If he hadn't gone back they'd have expired even earlier than his birthday, as the Dursleys place would not be considered his home anymore.
2) It sounds like she didn't get accepted and that probably made her feel even more bitter about it.
3) It would have been nice- the whole 19 years later deal seemed to be stuff that was pretty much a given anyways
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« Reply #99 on: July 24, 2007, 03:55:17 AM »

Zinfan
Spoiler for Hiden:
1.  Because he had to renew his protection while the Order made plans for getting him to safety.  If he had gone to the Burrow or somewhere else he would have been vulnerable. So he goes home to wait at Privet Drive, where he is untouchable, while plans are made on how to get him out of there before he turns 17 and the protection disappears. 

2.  No she wasn't accepted.  The significance of the Petunia scenes was that all of her rage against Harry and magic was actually pure jealousy because she really wanted to go to Hogwarts but didn't get the ability like her sister did. 
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« Reply #100 on: July 24, 2007, 04:54:27 AM »

Thanks CK and Kevin, that makes sense to me now.
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« Reply #101 on: July 25, 2007, 03:01:06 AM »

Re: Molly Weasley

Spoiler for Hiden:
Do you think J.K. Rowling is a fan of Aliens? biggrin
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« Reply #102 on: July 25, 2007, 03:30:45 AM »

According to the news about her upcoming Today show interview, she is very likely going to write the Encylopedia and it will include details on some of the questions we want to know like who the Headmaster at Hogwarts is (not McGonall), who the permanent DADA teacher is, etc. 

Also she revealed the character who got a reprieve from death:

Spoiler for Hiden:
  Arthur Weasley!  And it was supposed to happen in Book 5 (I'm guessing he would have died from that snake bite).  I'm damn happy that she didn't kill him off.  I like the Weasleys too much to see something like that happen, especially since his loss would have been felt in the next two books.  Sounds like Lupin ended up dying instead (she indicates that she killed off another father at the end of Book 7 instead which would be Lupin).
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« Reply #103 on: July 25, 2007, 03:30:56 AM »

Quote from: Teggy on July 25, 2007, 03:01:06 AM

Re: Molly Weasley

Spoiler for Hiden:
Do you think J.K. Rowling is a fan of Aliens? biggrin
yeah, I actually clapped my hands when that happened.
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« Reply #104 on: July 25, 2007, 03:31:27 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 25, 2007, 03:30:56 AM

Quote from: Teggy on July 25, 2007, 03:01:06 AM

Re: Molly Weasley

Spoiler for Hiden:
Do you think J.K. Rowling is a fan of Aliens? biggrin
yeah, I actually clapped my hands when that happened.

That's going to play like gangbusters in the movie. 
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« Reply #105 on: July 25, 2007, 05:04:41 AM »

Finished it earlier tonight, and it was about as good a capper to the series as I could have hoped for. Thoroughly enjoyable. I'm not even sad that the series is over, because it was a hell of a good ride. That, and I'm relieved about the fact that I can now actually use the Internet again.  icon_smile
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« Reply #106 on: July 25, 2007, 06:30:51 PM »

I finished it yesterday... have never read a book so fast. I also loved how it ended the series. It was entertaining throughout. I'm going to need some time to rank it, but it's definitely in the top three, giving Azkaban a run for its money for the top spot.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was scared when Hedwig died so early in the book. Who else would die? I didn't think anyone was safe. I was bracing for Ron, Hermione, or Hagrid to die throughout. Fred dying was awful.

I think Colin Creevey's death was very, very sad. For some reason... he just seemed like a happy, innocent kid.

I was also happy to have called Harry as a horcrux a day after I read book 6. Gotta brag about that. Tongue
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« Reply #107 on: July 26, 2007, 05:13:45 AM »

I finally finished it today. I've been reading it slowly, savoring it, and not looking forward to being done. What other 750 page book do you read that you wish would go on longer? Ah yes, the other big fat HP books!

Now what to read? Sigh..... I'm bummed...
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« Reply #108 on: July 26, 2007, 12:48:08 PM »

New post-DH character details from Rowling interview on Today Show:

Spoiler for Hiden:
  Harry and Ron became aurors and Hermione is high up in the Ministry.
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« Reply #109 on: July 26, 2007, 02:21:25 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 26, 2007, 12:48:08 PM

New post-DH character details from Rowling interview on Today Show:

Spoiler for Hiden:
  Harry and Ron became aurors and Hermione is high up in the Ministry.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Does Ginny just become a baby factory?
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #110 on: July 26, 2007, 02:27:19 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 26, 2007, 02:21:25 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
Does Ginny just become a baby factory?

Spoiler for Hiden:
Heh, perhaps.  Supposedly most kids are home schooled before going to Hogwarts so it would kind of make sense.  Though Ginny would seem to be an excellent candidate for Auror too and I'm sure Mrs. Weasley would be more than happy to look after the kids.

One things for sure- Ginny certainly doesn't have to work for them to make ends meet.  Not only does Harry have that fat inheritance but can you imagine how much he makes on the lecture circuit!

More details:

Spoiler for Hiden:
  Evidently Luna kind of wanders the world looking into myths and such.  She's a bit more grounded than before but still keeps an "open mind."  And despite denying it two years ago, Rowling thinks there is a decent chance that Neville and Luna went on to be become a bit of an item. 
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« Reply #111 on: July 26, 2007, 04:06:55 PM »

here's the whole interview on MSNBC.  Spoilers are abound in it.
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« Reply #112 on: July 26, 2007, 04:37:58 PM »

One thing I didn't like about the book was the greatly increased use of foul language. I'd say it has as much, if not more than all the other books combined.

This is supposed to be a book targeted at kids. Naughty, naughty, Ms. Rowlings.
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« Reply #113 on: July 26, 2007, 05:22:35 PM »

Quote from: PaulBot on July 26, 2007, 04:37:58 PM

One thing I didn't like about the book was the greatly increased use of foul language. I'd say it has as much, if not more than all the other books combined.

This is supposed to be a book targeted at kids. Naughty, naughty, Ms. Rowlings.


Yeah, Ron used "effing" a lot and of course there's Mrs. Weasley's big moment near the end.  Although Mr. Dursley did use that one in Book 5.

Overall, I find it fascinating how well Rowling is able to establish character's ages through dialogue.  It's immeidately apparent reading each book exactly where Harry and Co. are in their adolescence just going by the way they talk. 

The book was pretty dark and intense overall (especially the trip to Godric's Hollow).  Felt like it would really be pushing the bounds of PG-13. 
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« Reply #114 on: July 26, 2007, 06:27:17 PM »

Quote from: PaulBot on July 26, 2007, 04:37:58 PM

One thing I didn't like about the book was the greatly increased use of foul language. I'd say it has as much, if not more than all the other books combined.

This is supposed to be a book targeted at kids. Naughty, naughty, Ms. Rowlings.


Hehe, actually for me, the most offensive word throughout the series was "mudblood". She made up the term, but when you see the reaction every time it's used (especially the first time) you really get the sense how disgusting that word is. I actually cringed a little each time someone used it.

As far as the more common words, according to a study done by Dr. Timothy Jay, an expert on swearing in America, 90% of kids over age 5 know swear words and the F-word is the most common of them. And I know of no study that shows any harm whatsoever to children who simply see or hear curse words, other than Avada Kedavra. Tongue

But the overall tone of the books, starting around book 4, is pretty dark for the littler ones. I'd be more concerned about younger kids getting super scared than seeing a couple low-grade swears.
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« Reply #115 on: July 26, 2007, 06:36:26 PM »

Quote from: Old Negus on July 26, 2007, 06:27:17 PM

But the overall tone of the books, starting around book 4, is pretty dark for the littler ones. I'd be more concerned about younger kids getting super scared than seeing a couple low-grade swears.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I want to introduce the series to my daughter when she gets older.  The first couple of books are perfectly appropriate for her at probably 5 or 6 or so but I'm a bit less comfortable with the later ones at such a young age.  I think a lot of the themes in the later books, moreso than the violence, might be a bit much. 

The first couple of books feel like children's books first that can easily be appreciated and enjoyed by all ages while I would have to say that Books 5 and 7 feel first and foremost like adult novels (Book 6 was a bit of a step back in that regard IMO).
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« Reply #116 on: July 26, 2007, 09:13:42 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 26, 2007, 06:36:26 PM

Quote from: Old Negus on July 26, 2007, 06:27:17 PM

But the overall tone of the books, starting around book 4, is pretty dark for the littler ones. I'd be more concerned about younger kids getting super scared than seeing a couple low-grade swears.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I want to introduce the series to my daughter when she gets older.  The first couple of books are perfectly appropriate for her at probably 5 or 6 or so but I'm a bit less comfortable with the later ones at such a young age.  I think a lot of the themes in the later books, moreso than the violence, might be a bit much. 

The first couple of books feel like children's books first that can easily be appreciated and enjoyed by all ages while I would have to say that Books 5 and 7 feel first and foremost like adult novels (Book 6 was a bit of a step back in that regard IMO).

I can't see younger kids reading past the first couple books for no other reason than they wouldn't understand what was going on. Can you see a 7 year old reading about teenagers dealing with their raging hormones and other problems? Maybe each book should be read by kids the age of Harry in each book (e.g. Harry's 12, let a 12 year old read it).
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« Reply #117 on: July 26, 2007, 11:34:57 PM »

hmm with soul stealing creepy as hell dementors and a werewolf i thought most people would have found 3 to be a bit off limits to the younguns, for pure fear factor.  also, sirius is just flat out evil and a cold blooded murderer
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« Reply #118 on: July 27, 2007, 12:25:07 AM »

Quote from: PaulBot on July 26, 2007, 09:13:42 PM

I can't see younger kids reading past the first couple books for no other reason than they wouldn't understand what was going on. Can you see a 7 year old reading about teenagers dealing with their raging hormones and other problems? Maybe each book should be read by kids the age of Harry in each book (e.g. Harry's 12, let a 12 year old read it).

I think the one per thing and sort of growing up with the books is optimal.  But it's kinda hard when they're all on the shelf- "sorry, you'll have to wait until next year to find out what happens!"
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« Reply #119 on: July 27, 2007, 12:56:26 AM »

Quote from: Doopri on July 26, 2007, 11:34:57 PM

also, sirius is just flat out evil and a cold blooded murderer

he's just misunderstood.
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