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Author Topic: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Spoiler Thread  (Read 1315 times)
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AgtFox
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« on: July 27, 2005, 04:35:26 PM »

For those that have read it (I finished it yesterday).

The prevailing opinion is that RAB is Regulus Black, Sirius' dead brother.  He has been dead for 16 years (at the time of this book) and Entertainment Weekly actually clued me in that there was a locket that was not able to be opened at the Black estate in Order of the Phoenix (probably the locket Regulus exchanged with the fake locket long ago).

I was right about Dumbledore dying, although I wonder if he is truly dead or not.  He may have split his soul much like Voldemort did.  I'm sure Dumbledore knew he was going to die and wanted to impart as much knowledge to Harry before the inevitable happened.

I was not surprised Snape ended up being the Half-Blood Prince.  The clues were subtle, but they were there.  The writer in the book was obviously very good at potions which should have pointed Harry and Hermione to a master of potions.

The big question for me is whether or not Snape really is back with Voldemort or not.  Snape's lone mission was to keep Draco alive given the unbreakable covenant he made with Draco's mom early in the book.  If Draco died, he would die as well.  I still believe Snape may be on the good side of this battle even though he killed Dumbledore.  As he has done in previous times he kept Potter alive, but hurt him quite a bit.  Of course, Harry won't believe anything Snape says now unless Dumbledore has left information for Harry that can convince him.

Also, even if Dumbledore is dead, wouldn't Harry be able to go into the headmaster (or headmistress in the case now) room and talk to his picture once he is not sleeping?  The Black ancestor certainly let his 2 cents be known throughout the pensive sections, so I don't see why Dumbledore can't talk to Harry.

Anyway, those are just some things from the book.  I still think Goblet of Fire is the best of the books and Harry is not as angst ridden as he was in Order of the Phoenix.
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Zarkon
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2005, 04:58:23 PM »

Dumbledore's dead.  Remember, it requires a -murder- to split your soul.  I can't see Dumbledore murdering anyone.  And I honestly think Snape's been spying for the entire time.  Why didn't he kill Harry?  Because, as he said, that's Voldemort's target.  

However, I don't think Draco's nearly as evil as he makes out to be.  

I also don't think that the Ministry of Magic is going to exist in its present form come the end of book 7.
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Arkon
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2005, 05:22:40 PM »

Pretty sure Dumbledore is dead.  I think Snape is still good.  To me Dumbledore knew what was coming, and my guess is that this is what the argument was about between D and Snape that Hagrid noticed going on.  Dumbledore was pleading for Snape to kill him, not to spare him.  I am pretty well convinced that RAB was indeed Regulus.  I enjoyed the book, and am excited to see what book 7 holds.
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AgtFox
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2005, 05:43:07 PM »

Yes, forgot about the murder part...sorry about that.  I think Snape is still good and that Dumbledore planned it out all along.  Snape kills Dumbledore (which would have happened anyway if Draco hadn't have done it) and will sit at the right hand of Voldemort and when the final battle comes Snape changes sides again and helps Harry defeat the Dark Lord.
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farley2k
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2005, 05:51:58 PM »

1. RAB.  I think it has to be Regulus.  J.K. has said in interviews that there won't be any major new characters introduced in book 7 *and* that we can figure out who RAB is from what we have read so far (which kinda rules out a new character)

My opinion - it is Regulus.  Since Harry owns the house now and all the possesions it will be easy to get that Horcrux...except for the their Harry met in HBP!  He will have actually stolen and sold the locket which will make it tougher for Harry to find.


2. Dumbledore - dead or just playing an elaborate practical joke?   I vote for dead even though I don't like it.  I think he needs to be dead to really leave Harry alone.  Harry now has no parents, no god-father, and no surogate father.  He must face Voldermort alone.

Of course the evidence of him not being dead is compelling.  

Stolen from this good thread


Quote
This is the big clue. Think really carefully about the trap guarding the locket. That part of the book sails by quickly, and then we immediately get into the whole Dumbledore dying thing and never come back to it. There are some important things in that chapter, though, that never get adequately explained. Dumbledore tells Harry that "Voldemort wouldn't want to kill anyone who gets to this island;" he'd want to keep them alive long enough to find out how they did it. That makes sense, and the nature of the potion in the basin--which incapacitates the drinker--supports the theory.

But here's the thing that nagged me: If that's the case, then what was the purpose of the "no water" enchantment? Why would Voldemort set up his trap so that a horde of undead killing machines spring to life after the intruder has already been incapacitated?

Voldemort must have realized, like Dumbledore, that two people working together could get around his trap. One person drinks the potion and becomes incapacitated, but then the other could just grab the locket and drag the first person out of there. So he added a twist: whoever drank the potion would be overcome with an overriding need for water, and the only way to get water is to disturb the lake. That wakes up the Inferi, and ensures that any helper not incapacitated by the potion never makes it off the island. But that's also problematic, because the Inferi are mindless killing machines. Dumbledore points out that they would attack even Voldemort if he triggered his own trap (which is why the boat was there). And there's not much point in incapacitating the potion drinker only to let him get torn to bits by Inferi.

The solution, of course, is simple. The potion that Voldemort used to bait the trap doesn't merely incapacitate, it also protects the drinker from harm. At least until they are released from the effects of the potion.

Knowing this, let's hazard another guess: Dumbledore knew about this Horcrux--and the trap guarding it--long before he and Harry went to fetch it.


Very interesting theory!

3. Snape good or bad?   I think the simple fact is that J.K. has crafted the story such that we cannot know for sure.  We can argue/debate/and guess but she has done such a great, great job of setting up this question that we can't know.

Personally I think he is good.  I think he rushed up to the tower to make sure that Draco didn't kill Dumbldore.  I think he killed DD to cement his place in the Death Eaters so he could get closer to Voldermort.  

We see him continuing to teach Harry right up until the end - From page 603: "Blocked again and again and agin until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!"

The argument that they didn't kill him becuase Voldermort wanted to doesn't hold much water because they could have just knocked Harry out and taken him to the Dark Lord.  

So he must have had another reason for not killing and not kidnapping Harry.


Hence I think he is going to be the ultimate double/tripple/quadruple agent!  



Now all we have to do is wait a few years to find out!

If during that time you are bored check out
http://the-leaky-cauldron.org/  A truly freakish place where they have multiple threads on each of these topics - most of them over 20 pages long!
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AgtFox
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2005, 06:05:11 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
1. RAB.  I think it has to be Regulus.  J.K. has said in interviews that there won't be any major new characters introduced in book 7 *and* that we can figure out who RAB is from what we have read so far (which kinda rules out a new character)

My opinion - it is Regulus.  Since Harry owns the house now and all the possesions it will be easy to get that Horcrux...except for the their Harry met in HBP!  He will have actually stolen and sold the locket which will make it tougher for Harry to find.

This is actually easily remedied if Harry thinks about it.  He can summon Creature and have him hunt down the locket that Mundungus took.  Technically he could have Creature get everything stolen back.  Creature would do anything for the Black family, even if it is Harry doing the orders.

As for Dumbledore and the cave.  I am going to guess that it wasn't Voldemort's trap they contended with, but Regulus' trap.  I agree that Dumbledore knew the trap and the location (and probably that the horcrux was fake) before he ever took Harry there.  I don't think he'd put Harry into a dangerous situation if he didn't already have it under control or know what was going on.  He knew as long as Harry followed his orders that everything would go according to plan.

I am guessing the possibility of Neville being the Chosen One has been thrown out the door.
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Gwar21
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2005, 09:51:54 PM »

I think Dumbledore's dead, and I think he knew it was coming, which was why he imparted so much information to Harry in the last book.  There is a lot of phoenix symbology surrounding Dumbledore, but I think the phoenix's departure at the end only emphasizes that Dumbledore's not coming back...the phoenix connection was severed.  

I also think Snape is still a good guy, and that his killing of Dumbledore was something Dumbledore had told him he might have to do, to keep his cover and to keep Malfoy from killing.  His abrupt killing of Dumbledore shocked me at first, but reading back over it, the "pleading" by Dumbledore could mean more than a cry for healing...that doesn't really fit with Dumbledore's character anyway.  I think the plea makes more sense as a plea from Dumbledore for Snape to kill him.

The part that really makes me think Snape is a good guy is his outrage at being called a coward.  I think he's under tremendous pressure as a spy on Voldemort and in a situation which takes more courage than most people would have, and that's why being called a coward made him so angry.
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Grievous Angel
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2005, 03:29:03 AM »

I think Dumbledore is dead, I think Sirius isn't dead, and I think he'll end up helping Harry find the final horcruxes. It would make for a neat tie-in if Regulus did steal the locket before getting whacked.

If anyone's interested, someone from OO posted an exerpt from Order of the Phoenix, where all the people in the order were going through the Black family belongings, including a locket that no one could open.
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2005, 06:13:13 AM »

A couple of thoughts:

1) What if R.A.B. isn't just Regulus?  We know it took two to get to the fake locket.  Who's to say (other than Rowling) that the initial thief didn't need to folks to get the horcrux?  What if R.A.B. stands for "Regulus And Bellatrix"?

2) What if the memory of the prophecy being leaked to Voldemort and the killing of Dumbledore were set up so that Harry will have the proper motivation to destroy the final horcrux - Severus Snape?  It would fit the tragic hero arc she's had Snape on.  It would fit the dichotomy between Draco and Harry.  It would make for a damn compelling read...

3) What if the sorting hat is the Gryffindor's horcrux?  That'd certainly put a damper on the future classes at Hogwarts.
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AgtFox
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2005, 12:35:27 PM »

I thought of something this morning that would make one believe Snape is indeed good and still working for the Order:

Maybe Dumbledore was so behind Snape because they did an "unbreakable promise" like Snape did with Draco's mom in Half-Blood Prince.  That sort of thing would lead Dumbledore to back Snape in front of the Wizardgamot and always back him during Hogwarts days.  Granted, now that Dumbledore is dead by Snape's hand he is no longer bound by the promise, but I think Snape would have been dead had he broken the promise along the way.

Hagrid said Snape and Dumbledore had an argument...I can only guess that is the point Dumbledore told Snape he would have to kill him in order to get closer to Voldemort and ultimately help Harry defeat him in the end.  Dumbledore knew Harry would immediately go into full-on anti-Snape mode after seeing Snape kill him and he probably used it as the motivation Harry needs in order to have the guts to face Voldemort while also pushing Snape closer to where he needs to be in the endgame.

Snape was also far more defensive while fighting Harry than we have seen before.  Years ago Harry could at least de-wand Snape, but now Snape was blocking everything (probably because of occlumency, the use of which has let his thoughts be blocked to Voldemort) and showing Harry what needed to be done to face off against someone of Voldemort's power level.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.
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