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Author Topic: [TV] Game of Thrones - Season 4 is coming (please mark spoilers)  (Read 53663 times)
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leo8877
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« Reply #880 on: May 21, 2015, 03:03:33 PM »

Quote from: Lee on May 20, 2015, 08:40:16 PM

Quote from: Fireball on May 20, 2015, 04:47:35 PM

Sadly, the show has become bad fan fiction. It's George R. R. Martin's fault for not getting the books out in a timely manner, but the quality of the story has collapsed since the writers began broadly making stuff up as they went.

Are people not enjoying the show then? If so is it because it doesn't follow the books closely enough, the violence, or do they just don't think it is very good?

I don't think this season has been very good, but I had liked the show until then. 
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Fireball
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« Reply #881 on: May 21, 2015, 03:36:28 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on May 21, 2015, 03:03:33 PM

Quote from: Lee on May 20, 2015, 08:40:16 PM

Quote from: Fireball on May 20, 2015, 04:47:35 PM

Sadly, the show has become bad fan fiction. It's George R. R. Martin's fault for not getting the books out in a timely manner, but the quality of the story has collapsed since the writers began broadly making stuff up as they went.

Are people not enjoying the show then? If so is it because it doesn't follow the books closely enough, the violence, or do they just don't think it is very good?

I don't think this season has been very good, but I had liked the show until then.  

Agreed.

And I recognize that the producers have a broad outline of how the story ends. That's part of what annoys me so much (at Martin) about the show this season.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Clearly, they can alter things that play directly towards the ending of the story, so certain plots are continuing mostly unchanged (Cersei, Jon, Tyrion, Arya), while others have seen major modifications that may or may not end up in the same place (Sam, Brienne, Danaerys), and others are just absurdly different (Sansa, Jamie), thus indicating that all of the tedious plotting in the books about those characters int he last two bloated volumes was *ENTIRELY* pointless.
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Ralph-Wiggum
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« Reply #882 on: May 21, 2015, 04:45:55 PM »

Quote from: Fireball on May 21, 2015, 03:36:28 PM

Agreed.

And I recognize that the producers have a broad outline of how the story ends. That's part of what annoys me so much (at Martin) about the show this season.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Clearly, they can alter things that play directly towards the ending of the story, so certain plots are continuing mostly unchanged (Cersei, Jon, Tyrion, Arya), while others have seen major modifications that may or may not end up in the same place (Sam, Brienne, Danaerys), and others are just absurdly different (Sansa, Jamie), thus indicating that all of the tedious plotting in the books about those characters int he last two bloated volumes was *ENTIRELY* pointless.

I don't think that's necessarily the case at all. As far as I understand, the producers only have the broad outline, for example (speculative spoiler)
Spoiler for Hiden:
that Dany comes to Westeros and joins with Jon Snow to defeat the white walkers.
That doesn't mean that the other characters don't have important roles to play in the books to achieve that ending that will now likely differ greatly from the show. I of course don't know the details of what Martin told the producers, but I'm guessing he didn't lay out for them the story arch for every character.
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Lee
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« Reply #883 on: May 21, 2015, 04:54:57 PM »

To a certain degree, don't you have to separate the show from the books like any book to movie transition? For instance I liked the Hobbit, but I accepted it was not the same as the book and took it as its own thing. I don't think I have ever seen a book to movie that didn't make changes, for better or for worse. A Clockwork Orange is the closest movie made from a book I have read/seen, but even that changed some scenes and cut off the books ending. Still good, just different.
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rittchard
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« Reply #884 on: May 21, 2015, 04:58:52 PM »

Well I for one am enjoying the show immensely still.  I think it's fantastic that they gave Sansa an interesting plotline instead of leaving her cooped up in the Aerie or whatever.  They've done a great job with all the characters that bored me the most in the book (Margaery, Sansa, those boat people).  I enjoy the actor who plays Ramsay and the Ramsay/Theon stuff is just plain sick fun (for me) to watch.  I'm looking forward to seeing Sansa turn her fortunes around.  Also enjoying the way they are playing out Arya's training and last week's CGI reveal was fantastic.  Ditto on the recent dragon CGI.

The thing I do find confusing (but this was the same in the books) is the passage of time, which I can never tell.  When you're watching the show it feels like everything is happening concurrently.  But obviously there are things that have to have time passed, like Tyrion sailing or Arya training, but  I never get a sense of just how long things are happening.  Winter has been coming for five seasons lol, just how long does it take to come?  No pun intended.  Well maybe.  This is a problem for me in the books as well, but in the books it's a different effect since you read everything from a single character point of view.  Maybe it's not important, but I'm curious about things like how long Arya "trains" before becoming awesome.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Oh yeah and what happened to UNDEAD CATELYN!!?!??!?!  I demand zombies!!!!
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Exodor
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« Reply #885 on: May 21, 2015, 05:55:19 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on May 21, 2015, 04:58:52 PM

Well I for one am enjoying the show immensely still.  


Me too.  I've read the books twice and the two most recent volumes are borderline awful (I think they're better if you read one of the fan-made compilations that combine them into one chronological book, but still nothing like the first three).  The show is taking some low-quality source material and making something entertaining out of it - a feat I wasn't sure could be accomplished.
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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #886 on: May 21, 2015, 07:21:00 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on May 21, 2015, 04:58:52 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
Oh yeah and what happened to UNDEAD CATELYN!!?!??!?!  I demand zombies!!!!


They nixed Lady Stoneheart along with Cold Hands.   Also it looks like Jorah is taking the place of Jon Connington, which sort of sucks for Jorah.  Also Mance's role drastically changed post capture it seems and I think Brienne ends up in his plotline instead as the Bard.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 07:23:19 PM by forgeforsaken » Logged
TheEgoWhip
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« Reply #887 on: May 21, 2015, 09:06:31 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on May 21, 2015, 04:58:52 PM

Well I for one am enjoying the show immensely still.  I think it's fantastic that they gave Sansa an interesting plotline instead of leaving her cooped up in the Aerie or whatever.  They've done a great job with all the characters that bored me the most in the book (Margaery, Sansa, those boat people).  I enjoy the actor who plays Ramsay and the Ramsay/Theon stuff is just plain sick fun (for me) to watch.  I'm looking forward to seeing Sansa turn her fortunes around.  Also enjoying the way they are playing out Arya's training and last week's CGI reveal was fantastic.  Ditto on the recent dragon CGI.

The thing I do find confusing (but this was the same in the books) is the passage of time, which I can never tell.  When you're watching the show it feels like everything is happening concurrently.  But obviously there are things that have to have time passed, like Tyrion sailing or Arya training, but  I never get a sense of just how long things are happening.  Winter has been coming for five seasons lol, just how long does it take to come?  No pun intended.  Well maybe.  This is a problem for me in the books as well, but in the books it's a different effect since you read everything from a single character point of view.  Maybe it's not important, but I'm curious about things like how long Arya "trains" before becoming awesome.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Oh yeah and what happened to UNDEAD CATELYN!!?!??!?!  I demand zombies!!!!


I saw an article dealing with the passage of time in GoT, and it was interesting.  The problem they are facing is that each book covers less than a year, whereas each season needs to cover at least a years time.  Its easy to squeeze an entire book into a 3 month story, no matter how long between books it has been.  However, every season of the show the kids are one year older, no matter how little time has passed between their story lines in the books. 
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rittchard
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« Reply #888 on: May 21, 2015, 11:27:49 PM »

Quote from: TheEgoWhip on May 21, 2015, 09:06:31 PM

Quote from: rittchard on May 21, 2015, 04:58:52 PM

Well I for one am enjoying the show immensely still.  I think it's fantastic that they gave Sansa an interesting plotline instead of leaving her cooped up in the Aerie or whatever.  They've done a great job with all the characters that bored me the most in the book (Margaery, Sansa, those boat people).  I enjoy the actor who plays Ramsay and the Ramsay/Theon stuff is just plain sick fun (for me) to watch.  I'm looking forward to seeing Sansa turn her fortunes around.  Also enjoying the way they are playing out Arya's training and last week's CGI reveal was fantastic.  Ditto on the recent dragon CGI.

The thing I do find confusing (but this was the same in the books) is the passage of time, which I can never tell.  When you're watching the show it feels like everything is happening concurrently.  But obviously there are things that have to have time passed, like Tyrion sailing or Arya training, but  I never get a sense of just how long things are happening.  Winter has been coming for five seasons lol, just how long does it take to come?  No pun intended.  Well maybe.  This is a problem for me in the books as well, but in the books it's a different effect since you read everything from a single character point of view.  Maybe it's not important, but I'm curious about things like how long Arya "trains" before becoming awesome.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Oh yeah and what happened to UNDEAD CATELYN!!?!??!?!  I demand zombies!!!!


I saw an article dealing with the passage of time in GoT, and it was interesting.  The problem they are facing is that each book covers less than a year, whereas each season needs to cover at least a years time.  Its easy to squeeze an entire book into a 3 month story, no matter how long between books it has been.  However, every season of the show the kids are one year older, no matter how little time has passed between their story lines in the books. 

lol yeah I keep waiting for Bran to show up as 6 foot, 160 pound teenager and have Hodor unable to carry him.  And hopefully Arya won't blossom suddenly like that girl from Modern Family lol.
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Ralph-Wiggum
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« Reply #889 on: May 22, 2015, 05:19:10 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on May 21, 2015, 04:58:52 PM

Winter has been coming for five seasons lol, just how long does it take to come?

If I remember the book correctly, "winter" isn't a something that lasts 1/4 of a year but may last many years. Similarly, their "summer" may last multiple years (I think they referenced at some point that the current summer was the longest they can remember - maybe 10/15 years? - meaning that they expect a long winter as well). So when they say "winter is coming" they don't necessarily mean it's coming in a few months.
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TiLT
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« Reply #890 on: May 22, 2015, 07:11:32 AM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on May 22, 2015, 05:19:10 AM

Quote from: rittchard on May 21, 2015, 04:58:52 PM

Winter has been coming for five seasons lol, just how long does it take to come?

If I remember the book correctly, "winter" isn't a something that lasts 1/4 of a year but may last many years. Similarly, their "summer" may last multiple years (I think they referenced at some point that the current summer was the longest they can remember - maybe 10/15 years? - meaning that they expect a long winter as well). So when they say "winter is coming" they don't necessarily mean it's coming in a few months.

I think Bran has never seen winter during his lifetime, which is why Old Nan calls him "sweet summer child". That says a lot about how long this particular summer has lasted. I fully expect winter to hit the North this season, based on the hints that have been dropped by Stannis lately. I believe the first snows have even hit King's Landing at this point in the books, though I might be remembering wrong.
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TiLT
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« Reply #891 on: Today at 06:28:42 AM »

Funny we should talk about winter right now, because the previews for next episode make it look like winter will hit the entire North, or at least both the Wall and Winterfell, this week.
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