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Author Topic: Gerald Ford Has Died  (Read 2090 times)
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CSL
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« on: December 27, 2006, 07:22:53 AM »

Gerald R. Ford
1913-2006

RIP
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2006, 08:06:57 AM »

James Brown....
Gerald Ford.....

They always go in 3's... I'm wonder who's next.....
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2006, 12:57:36 PM »

Wow... we were playing "dead or alive" at the dinner table last night, and Gerald Ford was one of the names mentioned.  He was alive at the time - or so we thought.
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2006, 01:58:41 PM »

Rest in peace, Mr. President
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2006, 03:25:26 PM »

Oldest living president evar.

I hear he didn't do anything while he was in the white house though.  But that's just the general winds of perception.
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2006, 04:03:33 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 27, 2006, 08:06:57 AM

James Brown....
Gerald Ford.....

They always go in 3's... I'm wonder who's next.....

Apparently not Abe Vigoda.  The man's still alive and kicking it.
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2006, 04:29:08 PM »

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 03:25:26 PM

Oldest living president evar.

I hear he didn't do anything while he was in the white house though.  But that's just the general winds of perception.
He told Suharto that it was okay to invade East Timor. That led to the death of tens of thousand people.
Also, he fell down a lot.
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2006, 04:30:45 PM »

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 03:25:26 PM

Oldest living president evar.

I hear he didn't do anything while he was in the white house though.  But that's just the general winds of perception.

He pardoned Nixon of all his crimes.
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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2006, 04:32:01 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 04:29:08 PM

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 03:25:26 PM

Oldest living president evar.

I hear he didn't do anything while he was in the white house though.  But that's just the general winds of perception.
He told Suharto that it was okay to invade East Timor. That led to the death of tens of thousand people.
Also, he fell down a lot.

Sigh.

I'm not the biggest Gerald Ford fan, but come on, the man is dead now, lets not tear into him just yet.

Wanna attack some people that caused countless more deaths than that? Go after Hitler and the Nazi's, the entire Communist run in Russia, China, and wherever else it is/was, and the dictators in Southeast Asia and Africa, all of which are a helluva lost more nasty than anything we have produced, and that includes Bush the Tyrant.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2006, 04:34:35 PM by jblank » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2006, 05:03:32 PM »

Quote from: warning on December 27, 2006, 04:03:33 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on December 27, 2006, 08:06:57 AM

James Brown....
Gerald Ford.....

They always go in 3's... I'm wonder who's next.....

Apparently not Abe Vigoda.  The man's still alive and kicking it.

I bought my dad rockford files seasons 1 and 2 for Christmas. Good Old abe was in the very first episode!
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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2006, 05:45:08 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 04:32:01 PM

Wanna attack some people that caused countless more deaths than that? Go after Hitler and the Nazi's, the entire Communist run in Russia, China, and wherever else it is/was, and the dictators in Southeast Asia and Africa, all of which are a helluva lost more nasty than anything we have produced, and that includes Bush the Tyrant.

We could discuss Pinochet- that would tie it all together.

BTW, if you include Pinochet, doesn't that make three?
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« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2006, 05:50:23 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 05:45:08 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 04:32:01 PM

Wanna attack some people that caused countless more deaths than that? Go after Hitler and the Nazi's, the entire Communist run in Russia, China, and wherever else it is/was, and the dictators in Southeast Asia and Africa, all of which are a helluva lost more nasty than anything we have produced, and that includes Bush the Tyrant.

We could discuss Pinochet- that would tie it all together.

BTW, if you include Pinochet, doesn't that make three?

He's entitled to his opinion, but it gets a bit old hearing how this President is responsible for X deaths, and this one is responsible for Y deaths, when the actual context is hardly addressed, nor is the fact that often, geopolitics is a nasty business, and other "leaders" in the world make our Presidents look like choir boys. I'm no idealist that thinks every President is innocent, none are angels, I know that, but damn, in spite of that, I love living here, it's my country, and although we aren't perfect, I wouldn't wanna go anywhere else.

Certain people in here, seem to hate all these people, and the country maybe as well, so much, that I question why they stay. If I was miserable knowing that Ford did this, or Reagan did that, and it ate at me so much that I had to dwell on it, ad nauseum, then I would just find somewhere else to live.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2006, 05:54:12 PM by jblank » Logged

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Eduardo X
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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2006, 06:11:28 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 05:50:23 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 05:45:08 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 04:32:01 PM

Wanna attack some people that caused countless more deaths than that? Go after Hitler and the Nazi's, the entire Communist run in Russia, China, and wherever else it is/was, and the dictators in Southeast Asia and Africa, all of which are a helluva lost more nasty than anything we have produced, and that includes Bush the Tyrant.

We could discuss Pinochet- that would tie it all together.

BTW, if you include Pinochet, doesn't that make three?

He's entitled to his opinion, but it gets a bit old hearing how this President is responsible for X deaths, and this one is responsible for Y deaths, when the actual context is hardly addressed, nor is the fact that often, geopolitics is a nasty business, and other "leaders" in the world make our Presidents look like choir boys. I'm no idealist that thinks every President is innocent, none are angels, I know that, but damn, in spite of that, I love living here, it's my country, and although we aren't perfect, I wouldn't wanna go anywhere else.

Certain people in here, seem to hate all these people, and the country maybe as well, so much, that I question why they stay. If I was miserable knowing that Ford did this, or Reagan did that, and it ate at me so much that I had to dwell on it, ad nauseum, then I would just find somewhere else to live.
Why should we not discuss what he did after he died? Should we try to paint a pretty picture just because he died? Why not tell the truth about it?
The context of East Timor: suspected communists took over, and the anti-communist dictator, Sudarto, had just gotten done killing 300,000 and 1,000,000 communists, suspected communisits, and really anybody else they wanted after a coup, which was supported by Nixon and Henry Kissinger. Best of all, the CIA and the US embassy supplied Suharto with lists of people to kill.
So, President Ford and Kissinger met with Suharto to approve, finance, and support the invasion of East Timor in 1975. To stop communism from maybe spreading by killing thousands upon thousands of people.

Sure, Ford probably wasn't worse than any other President, but that doesn't make this ok. And if that somehow means I don't love this country, I really could care less. But, you love to say love it or leave it. I'd rather stay here and change it.
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2006, 06:31:18 PM »

Communism was possibly the greatest non-threat the world has ever faced.

I've always been astonished by how many lives and nations were destroyed fighting that non-threat.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2006, 06:32:59 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2006, 06:35:35 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 06:31:18 PM

Communism was possibly the greatest non-threat the world has ever faced.

I've always been astonished by how many lives and nations were destroyed fighting that non-threat.

Ask the people who lived under it if it was a non-threat.
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« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2006, 06:39:14 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 06:11:28 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 05:50:23 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 05:45:08 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 04:32:01 PM

Wanna attack some people that caused countless more deaths than that? Go after Hitler and the Nazi's, the entire Communist run in Russia, China, and wherever else it is/was, and the dictators in Southeast Asia and Africa, all of which are a helluva lost more nasty than anything we have produced, and that includes Bush the Tyrant.

We could discuss Pinochet- that would tie it all together.

BTW, if you include Pinochet, doesn't that make three?

He's entitled to his opinion, but it gets a bit old hearing how this President is responsible for X deaths, and this one is responsible for Y deaths, when the actual context is hardly addressed, nor is the fact that often, geopolitics is a nasty business, and other "leaders" in the world make our Presidents look like choir boys. I'm no idealist that thinks every President is innocent, none are angels, I know that, but damn, in spite of that, I love living here, it's my country, and although we aren't perfect, I wouldn't wanna go anywhere else.

Certain people in here, seem to hate all these people, and the country maybe as well, so much, that I question why they stay. If I was miserable knowing that Ford did this, or Reagan did that, and it ate at me so much that I had to dwell on it, ad nauseum, then I would just find somewhere else to live.
Why should we not discuss what he did after he died? Should we try to paint a pretty picture just because he died? Why not tell the truth about it?
The context of East Timor: suspected communists took over, and the anti-communist dictator, Sudarto, had just gotten done killing 300,000 and 1,000,000 communists, suspected communisits, and really anybody else they wanted after a coup, which was supported by Nixon and Henry Kissinger. Best of all, the CIA and the US embassy supplied Suharto with lists of people to kill.
So, President Ford and Kissinger met with Suharto to approve, finance, and support the invasion of East Timor in 1975. To stop communism from maybe spreading by killing thousands upon thousands of people.

Sure, Ford probably wasn't worse than any other President, but that doesn't make this ok. And if that somehow means I don't love this country, I really could care less. But, you love to say love it or leave it. I'd rather stay here and change it.

I hardly love to say love it or leave it, especially as a more than frequent critic of the Republicans and the current administration. However, that doesn't mean I am going to wring my hands about it, day in and day out, and compare Bush to Hitler, like some people do.

All I was saying was that today, on the day the man died, I think its a bit low class to make him a monster and accuse him of conspiracy to commit murder. Thats all I am saying Eduardo.

Your idea of "changing it" is to turn us into USSR-lite, something very few of us want to do, after all, most people, Democrats and Republicans alike, would rather be able to keep our civil and property rights, than bend to the Eduardo way of hardcore socialism. I'm a pretty Liberal Democrat but you're so far to the left you scare me.
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« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2006, 06:40:44 PM »

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 06:35:35 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 06:31:18 PM

Communism was possibly the greatest non-threat the world has ever faced.

I've always been astonished by how many lives and nations were destroyed fighting that non-threat.

Ask the people who lived under it if it was a non-threat.

Exactly. Tell Sakharov, the other dissidents, or the millions that died under Communism that it was a "non-threat".
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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2006, 07:04:03 PM »

RIP, Mr. Ford.

He served as well as could be expected under extremely difficult times for this country.
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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2006, 07:13:08 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 06:40:44 PM

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 06:35:35 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 06:31:18 PM

Communism was possibly the greatest non-threat the world has ever faced.

I've always been astonished by how many lives and nations were destroyed fighting that non-threat.

Ask the people who lived under it if it was a non-threat.

Exactly. Tell Sakharov, the other dissidents, or the millions that died under Communism that it was a "non-threat".

Need we discuss the brutal dictatorships, and the millions of people murdered under American-backed dictatorships?  Like, say, Pinochet, or Hussein, or Saudi Arabia?  American-led activities in Latin America were especially heinous.

I wrote a lot more, but feel it's time for me to leave the conversation.
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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2006, 07:30:43 PM »

He was the last surviving member of the Warren Commission. Whoa. Wasn't aware he was on it let alone the last member.
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« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2006, 07:31:18 PM »

I respect your opinion and agree with it to a certain extent, but I think I already acknowledged that we haven't been saints as far as geopolitics goes. I don't recall saying we were the pinnacle of virtue. :slywink:
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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2006, 07:38:35 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 07:31:18 PM

I respect your opinion and agree with it to a certain extent, but I think I already acknowledged that we haven't been saints as far as geopolitics goes. I don't recall saying we were the pinnacle of virtue. :slywink:
I'd like you to say "both sides (in the cold war) sucked."
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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2006, 08:00:32 PM »

Damn there sure have been a lot of people dying lately. The one that bothered me most was the Croc Hunter.

Maybe we'll have all these unfortunate deaths followed by a fortunate one? What do you thinK?
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« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2006, 08:01:42 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 07:38:35 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 07:31:18 PM

I respect your opinion and agree with it to a certain extent, but I think I already acknowledged that we haven't been saints as far as geopolitics goes. I don't recall saying we were the pinnacle of virtue. :slywink:
I'd like you to say "both sides (in the cold war) sucked."

They sucked in that they nearly destroyed our planet. Nuclear Weapons are a scourge, scare me to death, and should be banned.
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« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2006, 08:30:41 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 08:01:42 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 07:38:35 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 07:31:18 PM

I respect your opinion and agree with it to a certain extent, but I think I already acknowledged that we haven't been saints as far as geopolitics goes. I don't recall saying we were the pinnacle of virtue. :slywink:
I'd like you to say "both sides (in the cold war) sucked."

They sucked in that they nearly destroyed our planet. Nuclear Weapons are a scourge, scare me to death, and should be banned.

Technically they are 'banned'. 

They don't scare me that much as if they go off, well, I'll probably not know about it.  Wait. I don't live 40 minutes from DC anymore.  I'll probably survive the first wave and join a roving band of marauders who wage war for a single tank of juice.  I'll drive a souped up car, get a mohawk, some lacrosse pads, a sawed off shotgun and learn to live again.
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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2006, 08:37:22 PM »

Damn, nukular war might be my best chance of getting super-powers (or at least another arm or two).

Stupid non-proliferationists, always trying to hold me back.
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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2006, 08:52:54 PM »

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 08:30:41 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 08:01:42 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 07:38:35 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 07:31:18 PM

I respect your opinion and agree with it to a certain extent, but I think I already acknowledged that we haven't been saints as far as geopolitics goes. I don't recall saying we were the pinnacle of virtue. :slywink:
I'd like you to say "both sides (in the cold war) sucked."

They sucked in that they nearly destroyed our planet. Nuclear Weapons are a scourge, scare me to death, and should be banned.

Technically they are 'banned'. 

They don't scare me that much as if they go off, well, I'll probably not know about it.  Wait. I don't live 40 minutes from DC anymore.  I'll probably survive the first wave and join a roving band of marauders who wage war for a single tank of juice.  I'll drive a souped up car, get a mohawk, some lacrosse pads, a sawed off shotgun and learn to live again.

Maybe I should have said "eradicated". Nothing would make me happier than to see the total destruction of all nuclear weapons, in every nations stockpile.
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2006, 09:40:15 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 08:01:42 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 07:38:35 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 07:31:18 PM

I respect your opinion and agree with it to a certain extent, but I think I already acknowledged that we haven't been saints as far as geopolitics goes. I don't recall saying we were the pinnacle of virtue. :slywink:
I'd like you to say "both sides (in the cold war) sucked."

They sucked in that they nearly destroyed our planet. Nuclear Weapons are a scourge, scare me to death, and should be banned.

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 06:40:44 PM

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 06:35:35 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 06:31:18 PM

Communism was possibly the greatest non-threat the world has ever faced.

I've always been astonished by how many lives and nations were destroyed fighting that non-threat.

Ask the people who lived under it if it was a non-threat.

Exactly. Tell Sakharov, the other dissidents, or the millions that died under Communism that it was a "non-threat".
Do you also care about those millions who have died under the US's watchful (and approving) eyes? Or do those somehow have to be explained in context?
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2006, 10:05:41 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 09:40:15 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 08:01:42 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 07:38:35 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 07:31:18 PM

I respect your opinion and agree with it to a certain extent, but I think I already acknowledged that we haven't been saints as far as geopolitics goes. I don't recall saying we were the pinnacle of virtue. :slywink:
I'd like you to say "both sides (in the cold war) sucked."

They sucked in that they nearly destroyed our planet. Nuclear Weapons are a scourge, scare me to death, and should be banned.

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 06:40:44 PM

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 06:35:35 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 06:31:18 PM

Communism was possibly the greatest non-threat the world has ever faced.

I've always been astonished by how many lives and nations were destroyed fighting that non-threat.

Ask the people who lived under it if it was a non-threat.

Exactly. Tell Sakharov, the other dissidents, or the millions that died under Communism that it was a "non-threat".
Do you also care about those millions who have died under the US's watchful (and approving) eyes? Or do those somehow have to be explained in context?

Eduardo, with all due respect, despite thinking you know the "whole story", on some of these things, perhaps you don't. That isn't condonement of our actions (or even acknowledgement) as much as it is me saying that we don't always know and aren't privy to, all the information, so before I believe that any US President is an accomplice to murder, I typically like to have as much information as possible. No offense, but you tend to paint things a certain way, and thats fine, but I like to see the other side of things also, when it comes to labeling our actions as criminal and murderous.

We aren't always angels, but we aren't always demons either.
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2006, 11:44:53 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 09:40:15 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 08:01:42 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 27, 2006, 07:38:35 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 07:31:18 PM

I respect your opinion and agree with it to a certain extent, but I think I already acknowledged that we haven't been saints as far as geopolitics goes. I don't recall saying we were the pinnacle of virtue. :slywink:
I'd like you to say "both sides (in the cold war) sucked."

They sucked in that they nearly destroyed our planet. Nuclear Weapons are a scourge, scare me to death, and should be banned.

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 06:40:44 PM

Quote from: ATB on December 27, 2006, 06:35:35 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2006, 06:31:18 PM

Communism was possibly the greatest non-threat the world has ever faced.

I've always been astonished by how many lives and nations were destroyed fighting that non-threat.

Ask the people who lived under it if it was a non-threat.

Exactly. Tell Sakharov, the other dissidents, or the millions that died under Communism that it was a "non-threat".
Do you also care about those millions who have died under the US's watchful (and approving) eyes? Or do those somehow have to be explained in context?

Clearly, you are spouting Communist Propaganda.
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« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2006, 12:55:30 AM »

He was a good man.
As far as how much one of our presidents can influence another head of state enough to change their actions is debatable. To look at it another way how many deaths was Abraham Lincoln responsible for? How many French, British, Indians and American colonists deaths was George Washington responsible for? What about Calvin Coolidge?
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« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2006, 01:05:01 AM »

Can we get back to what the thread was about?

  Someone help me remember the quote from the end of the Simpsons episode.  Something along the lines of "Homer, do you like to drink beer and watch football?"
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« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2006, 01:08:35 AM »

HA! Found it:

Gerry: Hi!  Pleased to meet you, I just moved in.  My name is Gerry Ford.
Homer: [gasps] Former President Gerald Ford?  Put her there!  I'm Homer Simpson!
Gerry: Say, Homer, do you like football?
Homer: Do I ever!
Gerry: Do you like nachos?
Homer: Yes, Mr. Ford.
Gerry: Well, why don't you come over and watch the game, and we'll have nachos?  And then, some beer.
Homer: Ooh!
(and if I had to keep it topical, the search also yielded this: A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have. - Gerald Ford)
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« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2006, 02:01:09 AM »

Quote from: Big Jake on December 28, 2006, 01:08:35 AM

(and if I had to keep it topical, the search also yielded this: A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have. - Gerald Ford)

Yeah, he sure took accountability away from Nixon, that's for sure  Tongue


OMG, I completely forgot: the episode of The Simpsons you cited features Homer fighting with GHW Bush!  That's truly a classic episode.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2006, 05:55:50 AM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2006, 07:14:45 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on December 28, 2006, 02:01:09 AM

OMG, I completely forgot: the episode of The Simpsons you cited features Homer fighting with GHW Bush!  That's truly a classic episode.

I about died from laughter when the both tripped over the curb and simultaneously went D'OH!
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« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2006, 03:45:07 PM »

I forgot that Ford also pulled out the last US troops from Saigon.
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« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2006, 04:30:54 PM »

Gerry will always be remembered for NOT being Nixon.

As far as socialist Russia goes, the haves and have-nots still exist; the ratio was just worse. When it comes down to it, communism is never a threat; only the differing ideals and the zealot nature to change that which is different is a "threat". Xenophobe isn't just a bad video game. frown
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« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2006, 04:48:35 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 28, 2006, 04:30:54 PM

Gerry will always be remembered for NOT being Nixon.

As far as socialist Russia goes, the haves and have-nots still exist; the ratio was just worse. When it comes down to it, communism is never a threat; only the differing ideals and the zealot nature to change that which is different is a "threat". Xenophobe isn't just a bad video game. frown

Really, the root of the problem with the Soviet Union, IMHO, was the authoritarian nature of the place. The US is better about civil rights within its borders, but some of the US's allies and colonial holdings are pretty poorly off. Suharto is just 1 of the many horrible dictators the US has supported. We could make a large list of others, as we could do with the Soviet Union's shady allies.
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« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2006, 05:51:25 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 28, 2006, 04:30:54 PM

Xenophobe isn't just a bad video game. frown


Bad?  That was a CLASSIC video game  mad
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