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Author Topic: Garage Leak Any Ideas to Solve  (Read 1656 times)
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Tals
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« on: January 07, 2009, 08:29:23 PM »

We have a garage against the house. The roof of the garage goes halfway up the house and is quite a shallow slope so effectively their is a gap between the house and the roof tiles. This is covered by lead covering on our house covering to the tiles and also the felt. However because it is quite a shallow rake the rain always seems to get between the lead as it is draining down and between the tiles and house wall and then drips onto the roof support (the bit that worries me!).

We've had the roof redone once in terms of refelting and it didn't seem to make any difference. Anyone have any solutions to this. I did wonder if their was somekind of foam I could put under the lead (if it is lead) to stop the water coming in under it.

Any thoughts

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wonderpug
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 08:38:29 PM »

This Thread Is Confusing Without Pictures
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 08:41:07 PM »

If it was lead, wouldn't it have been nicked by now? slywink

(Sorry, I got no advice but I couldn't resist)
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Tals
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2009, 08:47:23 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on January 07, 2009, 08:38:29 PM

This Thread Is Confusing Without Pictures

Hmmm good point.

This house has a similar style roof. Although ours doesn't join with the front like this you get the idea with the join to the house.




I'll try and post an image from our house over the weekend if it is required
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Covenant
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2009, 08:59:08 PM »

doesn't flashing usually take care of these situations?
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Sarkus
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2009, 08:59:28 PM »

Sounds like you need professional advice, which hopefully you will get from someone.  All I can say is that the way those are supposed to work obviously isn't in this case and that's probably a design problem more than anything else.  Be carefull with sticking something like foam or using a sealant, just because roofs are not supposed to be completely "air tight" in a true sense so their could be other consequences of a seemingly obvious fix solution.

I guess if it was me I'd look to having a roofing specialist come out.  But maybe there is one who frequents GT who can point you in the right direction.  

Good luck.   thumbsup
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Tals
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2009, 09:02:33 PM »

Isn't flashing the lead covering? Which it has, I could try and clean it
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2009, 10:54:52 PM »

Quote from: Sarkus on January 07, 2009, 08:59:28 PM

Sounds like you need professional advice, which hopefully you will get from someone.  All I can say is that the way those are supposed to work obviously isn't in this case and that's probably a design problem more than anything else.  Be carefull with sticking something like foam or using a sealant, just because roofs are not supposed to be completely "air tight" in a true sense so their could be other consequences of a seemingly obvious fix solution.

I guess if it was me I'd look to having a roofing specialist come out.  But maybe there is one who frequents GT who can point you in the right direction.  

Good luck.   thumbsup

Agreed, I do think the garage has a design problem with it's roof. The slope just isn't steep enough for the water to run off quickly enough. I had to rotate the drain so the water went down the steeper side otherwise the leak was far to much.

Good point re the air tight aspect which I hadn't appretiated, just don't want to spend money (like before) and end up with no change in position frown
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2009, 11:45:48 PM »

I don't know that lead is a good metal for flashing.  I haven't seen it installed in PA in 30 years, though I've pulled enough of it out.

you are looking for two things with flashing -  a long downslope ON TOP of the top layer of roofing.  Like 10-12 inches out from the side of the house.  This could also be doubly sealed with Silicone or Asphalt caulking -- a good bead uninterrupted on the underside length of the flashing, and over each fastener/nail.  A dollop about the diameter of a 50 cent piece

Second, the flashing from the bend where the flashing transitions from roof to up the wall needs to be under any vinyl or wood siding, and sealed around its outer perimeter.  IT should likewise be about 10 inches up the wall behind the sheathing.  On a brick or stucco installation, you could grind a groove in the mortar or stucco, and bend a 90 degree lip about 1/4 an inch  into the  mortar .  You need to nail into mortar joints, as bricks will be too hard.  Some use a large head galvanized roofing nail poundeid in on top of the lip, not actually through the flashing material.  then you caulk the bejeezus around the perimeter.
 
the  flashing is hopefully aluminum.  Copper is expensive and pretty, but unnecessary.  Hopefully the flashing is in a continuous length, or at the least in lengths over 2 feet with 3 inches of heavily caulked overlay, both between and on top. 

Because of the difficulty of bending any respectable length of aluminum sheetstock or coil-stock, most people hire a contractor with a 6-8 feet Metal fabricating "break".   I have one, but I doubt you're close enough for me to be helpful.

if the wall of the house also ends before the flashing covers the length of the garage roof, the flashing must be installed under the roof surface of that part of the house.  the corner of the wall must also be flashed well.  I'll describe corner flashing if you need it later.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 11:49:02 PM by the Nightbreeze » Logged

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map
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2009, 12:36:27 AM »

THERE ARE TWO ASPECTS TO FLASHING YOUR condition of going up the rake. A flashing and a counter flashing. most counter flashings are a z-bar configuration where one leg of the z is against the wall framing and it steps out and down to lap over the "flashing". If you have any kind of shingle on your roof you need step shingles going up the rake at the wall. step shingles are generally tin bent at 90 degrees along there length. then they are set between shingle courses and go up the wall under the counter flashing. If your lead flashing is just an L-piece with one leg on the wall and the other leg running out on the roof it is not going to work. The only condition I can't comment on is if you live where it freezes and you get ice dams. If all of this is greek to you it should make sense to an experienced roofer. I have my suspicions as to why the flashing wasn't corrected when they refelted but I would need a close up picture of the condition to comment further.
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Tals
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2009, 06:45:23 AM »

Quote from: map on January 08, 2009, 12:36:27 AM

THERE ARE TWO ASPECTS TO FLASHING YOUR condition of going up the rake. A flashing and a counter flashing. most counter flashings are a z-bar configuration where one leg of the z is against the wall framing and it steps out and down to lap over the "flashing". If you have any kind of shingle on your roof you need step shingles going up the rake at the wall. step shingles are generally tin bent at 90 degrees along there length. then they are set between shingle courses and go up the wall under the counter flashing. If your lead flashing is just an L-piece with one leg on the wall and the other leg running out on the roof it is not going to work. The only condition I can't comment on is if you live where it freezes and you get ice dams. If all of this is greek to you it should make sense to an experienced roofer. I have my suspicions as to why the flashing wasn't corrected when they refelted but I would need a close up picture of the condition to comment further.

Thanks Nightbreeze and map, the details just show this needs a professional. I'll check with my insurance but I suspect i'll have to put my hand in my pocket frown

In terms of the flashing, I suspect this is where the fault lays, it isn't lead but something like it - probably aluminium. In terms of how it looks, it is against the wall (might be in the mortar) and does just lay on the roof (Lpiece being a good description). When the previous builders did it they didn't touch the flashing at all

Tals
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Daehawk
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2009, 07:04:45 AM »

Storm Patch?

IK had a roof leak and used something like this on it. Hasn't leaked yet.
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Tals
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2009, 11:12:15 AM »

A roofer has now assessed it. He is confident the problem is 2 cracked tiles. One at the top is an old break and one at the bottom done when the boiler was put in. I'm still not confident but he was and i'm 99% he knows what he is talking about so we're take it from there.

He said the flashing was good.

Tals
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map
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2009, 01:05:36 PM »

I was assuming your roof was asphalt-fiberglass composition, What kind of tiles are on your roof?
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Tals
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2009, 01:54:30 PM »

Quote from: map on January 11, 2009, 01:05:36 PM

I was assuming your roof was asphalt-fiberglass composition, What kind of tiles are on your roof?

It will be either concrete or clay. Very few houses in UK are anything other than that

Tals
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« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2009, 04:24:44 PM »

If you are in the U.K. there may be a fundamental difference in roofing ideology[eg. thatching]. However, everywhere on earth water runs downhill. So to be a successful roofer you just need to be smarter than water.[ice dams and percolation will force water uphill.] I build houses in So. Cal.[for 40 years+]. The only roof we ever put on that did not require a felt underlayment was wood shingles. All other roofs require a waterproof underlayment. We have a set of rules per the pitch of the roof as to whether this underlayment is felt or hot mop or torchdown. Any roof under 3:12 does not have felt. Here all our roofing "tiles" are just different aesthetic ways of protecting the waterproof underlayment. So in my experience the fact that you have a couple of cracked "tiles" is an aesthetic issue. Whatever water gets thru the cracks should just go down to the waterproof underlayment beneath those tiles and not go into your house. So you do want to fix the tiles to maintain the protection of the underlayment but in my experience that's not the entire problem.
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« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2009, 05:07:50 PM »

I queried him on the flashing and he was 100% happy this was not the issue. Interestingly the cracked tile at the top is an old break so could explain why its been an issue for a while. The leak is coming down the side wall (between roof and wall). His view (and I am happy to accept it could be incorrect) is that the underlay is the last line of defence. It should never reached there. I accidentally put a hole in the underlay at the bottom of the roof but he wasn't too concerned about that. Note the leak tends to occur when rain his heavy.

In the UK (south) we have a really good trade check system

http://www.checkatrade.com/AOsheaAndSons

So i'm reasonably comfortable the guy is good

Tals
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VynlSol
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« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2009, 06:06:10 PM »

Quote
So i'm reasonably comfortable the guy is good




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map
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2009, 07:28:10 PM »

Fawlty Towers  icon_biggrin I've actually been trying to remember his name.
Then I think you've done all you can do.
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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2009, 08:00:05 PM »

Mr. O'Reilly smile
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map
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2009, 08:22:54 PM »

I've got to say it. Why is the water getting thru your last line of defense?
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Tals
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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2009, 11:24:41 PM »

Quote from: map on January 11, 2009, 08:22:54 PM

I've got to say it. Why is the water getting thru your last line of defense?

It's not - its coming down the wall smile The roofer says its the broken tiles that are causing it - i've a tendancy to believe him only because it only happens when its wet and believe me in the UK when it rains it pours smile

We'll see i'll report back after the event. I did go and check the garage today and all is dry - now that is after 2 weeks of winter smile
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map
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« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2009, 12:45:27 AM »

I hope it turns out all good.  thumbsup
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 12:59:19 PM by map » Logged

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