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CeeKay
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« on: August 22, 2006, 02:37:36 PM »

A very special Calvin and Hobbes!
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2006, 02:42:10 PM »

That is awful.  More damage there to my childhood memories than that Thundercats news!
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2006, 03:29:28 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on August 22, 2006, 02:37:36 PM


Dude, you and I have always been friends. Bros. Partners in crime. Until today. Sir, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why would you dare even post such a vile, foul, dirty, repulsive, offensive bastardization of that which is so great. Calvin and Hobbes means more to me than you, sir. Nay, it means more to me than the whole internet.

I pray you will reconsider this behavior, and I will proceed to wipe that soulless abomination from my memories forever.
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2006, 03:30:47 PM »

Wasn't that strip posted a while back and a huge discussion ensued?
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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2006, 03:41:19 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 03:30:47 PM

Wasn't that strip posted a while back and a huge discussion ensued?

No discussion is needed. It is heresy, it is abomination. It completely and utterly misses the point of Calvin and Hobbes. Speak no further heathen, or suffer my wrath.
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2006, 03:49:20 PM »

As to the original Calvin and Hobbes, I agree it is an abomination.  I believe it was being portrayed as a look in to our current culture of heavily medicating our school aged children.
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« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2006, 03:54:02 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 03:49:20 PM

As to the original Calvin and Hobbes, I agree it is an abomination.  I believe it was being portrayed as a look in to our current culture of heavily medicating our school aged children.

You mean the original faux strip in this thread, right? Not the actual, original Calvin and Hobbes?
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« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2006, 03:56:35 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on August 22, 2006, 03:54:02 PM

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 03:49:20 PM

As to the original Calvin and Hobbes, I agree it is an abomination.  I believe it was being portrayed as a look in to our current culture of heavily medicating our school aged children.

You mean the original faux strip in this thread, right? Not the actual, original Calvin and Hobbes?

Poor phrasing, I was saying that the faux strip in this thread is an abomination to the original Calvin and Hobbes. (yes I own the multiple hardcover book collection that released this past year, Calvin and Hobbes is my all time favorite strip).

That aside, it is a very poignant look into society if you are familiar with the real calvin and hobbes strips.
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« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 03:59:17 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 03:49:20 PM

As to the original Calvin and Hobbes, I agree it is an abomination.  I believe it was being portrayed as a look in to our current culture of heavily medicating our school aged children.

The notions that ADD and ADHD are overdiagnosed and Ritalin analogues are overprescribed are quite arguable and reasonable.

The unscientific notion that Ritalin and similar drugs destroy a child's creativity and imagination is not.  It's a wholy unscientific nonsense.  It's reminiscent of the '60s-'70s feckless notion that various forms of psychosis are romantic and beautiful and that medicating insane people destroys their creativity.

It misses the point.  It's like meeting someone who is worried that antibiotics are overprescribed -- not because the overuse might reduce our ability to fight infections, but because he read on the internet that Lyndon LaRouche says antibiotics cause cancer.
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2006, 04:04:28 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on August 22, 2006, 03:59:17 PM

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 03:49:20 PM

As to the original Calvin and Hobbes, I agree it is an abomination.  I believe it was being portrayed as a look in to our current culture of heavily medicating our school aged children.

The notions that ADD and ADHD are overdiagnosed and Ritalin analogues are overprescribed are quite arguable and reasonable.

The unscientific notion that Ritalin and similar drugs destroy a child's creativity and imagination is not.  It's a wholy unscientific nonsense.  It's reminiscent of the '60s-'70s feckless notion that various forms of psychosis are romantic and beautiful and that medicating insane people destroys their creativity.

It misses the point.  It's like meeting someone who is worried that antibiotics are overprescribed -- not because the overuse might reduce our ability to fight infections, but because he read on the internet that Lyndon LaRouche says antibiotics cause cancer.

Agreed, the drugs themselves do not seem to stiffle creativity in a child.  However if a child who expresses a vivid imagination is put on one of these drugs they typically self regulate thier creativity due to being told that it was wrong by parents/teachers who don't want to deal with them.
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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2006, 04:08:33 PM »

Damnit, dont you two go and make this thread serious. This was CeeKay's way of trying to kick me in the nuts and laugh about it!!  :slywink:
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« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2006, 04:16:32 PM »


CeeKay, CeeKay, CeeKay.... How could you, CeeKay.... sigh....  icon_cry

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« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2006, 05:28:56 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 04:04:28 PM

Quote from: Mr. Fed on August 22, 2006, 03:59:17 PM

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 03:49:20 PM

As to the original Calvin and Hobbes, I agree it is an abomination.  I believe it was being portrayed as a look in to our current culture of heavily medicating our school aged children.

The notions that ADD and ADHD are overdiagnosed and Ritalin analogues are overprescribed are quite arguable and reasonable.

The unscientific notion that Ritalin and similar drugs destroy a child's creativity and imagination is not.  It's a wholy unscientific nonsense.  It's reminiscent of the '60s-'70s feckless notion that various forms of psychosis are romantic and beautiful and that medicating insane people destroys their creativity.

It misses the point.  It's like meeting someone who is worried that antibiotics are overprescribed -- not because the overuse might reduce our ability to fight infections, but because he read on the internet that Lyndon LaRouche says antibiotics cause cancer.

Agreed, the drugs themselves do not seem to stiffle creativity in a child.  However if a child who expresses a vivid imagination is put on one of these drugs they typically self regulate thier creativity due to being told that it was wrong by parents/teachers who don't want to deal with them.

Having been a child put on Ritalin, I found myself far less creative when taking the drug.  While I found myself a better student in the traditional sense, my mind no longer made the tangential connections that inspired the best of my artistic endeavours (writing, graphic design).  I do not pretend to know how Ritalin affects children on a grander scale, and will fully admit that I probably learned more completely while on the drug.  However, I felt that the muting of my creative mind was too high a price to pay to be a "good student" and haven't taken the medication since.
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« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2006, 05:34:06 PM »

Quote from: CrayolaSmoker on August 22, 2006, 05:28:56 PM

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 04:04:28 PM

Quote from: Mr. Fed on August 22, 2006, 03:59:17 PM

Quote from: Arkon on August 22, 2006, 03:49:20 PM

As to the original Calvin and Hobbes, I agree it is an abomination.  I believe it was being portrayed as a look in to our current culture of heavily medicating our school aged children.

The notions that ADD and ADHD are overdiagnosed and Ritalin analogues are overprescribed are quite arguable and reasonable.

The unscientific notion that Ritalin and similar drugs destroy a child's creativity and imagination is not.  It's a wholy unscientific nonsense.  It's reminiscent of the '60s-'70s feckless notion that various forms of psychosis are romantic and beautiful and that medicating insane people destroys their creativity.

It misses the point.  It's like meeting someone who is worried that antibiotics are overprescribed -- not because the overuse might reduce our ability to fight infections, but because he read on the internet that Lyndon LaRouche says antibiotics cause cancer.

Agreed, the drugs themselves do not seem to stiffle creativity in a child.  However if a child who expresses a vivid imagination is put on one of these drugs they typically self regulate thier creativity due to being told that it was wrong by parents/teachers who don't want to deal with them.

Having been a child put on Ritalin, I found myself far less creative when taking the drug.  While I found myself a better student in the traditional sense, my mind no longer made the tangential connections that inspired the best of my artistic endeavours (writing, graphic design).  I do not pretend to know how Ritalin affects children on a grander scale, and will fully admit that I probably learned more completely while on the drug.  However, I felt that the muting of my creative mind was too high a price to pay to be a "good student" and haven't taken the medication since.


You know what they say about the plural of "anecdote" -- icon_wink   -- but I've heard the opposite:  people who were able to express creativity in a way they had not before.  My cousin, for instance, went from being very unhappy in school and a poor student, with few outlets for creativity, to being a voracious reader and avid writer of stories.  The impact may vary from person to person.  But I'd want to see a scientific basis for the notion that it actually impairs creativity.  The meme is just too close to the unscientific ones that have been used to suppress treatment of mental conditions in the past.
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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2006, 05:57:16 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on August 22, 2006, 03:59:17 PM

The unscientific notion that Ritalin and similar drugs destroy a child's creativity and imagination is not.  It's a wholy unscientific nonsense.  It's reminiscent of the '60s-'70s feckless notion that various forms of psychosis are romantic and beautiful and that medicating insane people destroys their creativity.
I'm sorry, but did you just equate adolescent ADD to clinical psychosis?

Here's the thing.  The Piaget-ian school system of grades and tiers makes for a really fucking boring learning experience.  Combine that with Western culture's obsession with factual knowledge and deductive reasoning vis-a-vis the scientific method, and you create a "learning" environment which STRONGLY favors linear thought processes such as rote memorization and cause-and-effect analysis.

Now let's look at ritalin.  Ritalin, if you weren't aware, is not a depressant, despite the notion that it 'calms kids down.'  It's a stimulant.  Specifically, it stimulates areas of the brain that help with linear processing, which makes it easier, and possibly even more rewarding, for people to "focus" on linear tasks.

What happens, then, is quite predictable, considering our country's rabid pre-collegiate competitivism and massively dissatisfied, bored, unhappy GenX-er parents who just love to project their stresses and neuroses onto their children:  If the American school system is a circle-shaped hole, and their child is a square-shaped peg, ritalin can and certainlly will smooth out the kid's edges until he or she fits snugly into our crooked and completely unfounded ideas regarding what "intelligence," "scholasticism," or even "success" are.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 05:58:57 PM by -Lord Ebonstone- » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2006, 06:06:26 PM »

Quote from: -Lord Ebonstone- on August 22, 2006, 05:57:16 PM


I'm sorry, but did you just equate adolescent ADD to clinical psychosis?

No.  Read it again.  I compared romanticizing one to romanticizing another.

Quote

Here's the thing.  The Piaget-ian school system of grades and tiers makes for a really fucking boring learning experience.  Combine that with Western culture's obsession with factual knowledge and deductive reasoning vis-a-vis the scientific method, and you create a "learning" environment which STRONGLY favors linear thought processes such as rote memorization and cause-and-effect analysis.

Boring for some people, at least.  Sure.

Quote
Now let's look at ritalin.  Ritalin, if you weren't aware, is not a depressant, despite the notion that it 'calms kids down.'  It's a stimulant.  Specifically, it stimulates areas of the brain that help with linear processing, which makes it easier, and possibly even more rewarding, for people to "focus" on linear tasks.

I believe that's rather widely known.

Quote
What happens, then, is quite predictable, considering our country's rabid pre-collegiate competitivism and massively dissatisfied, bored, unhappy GenX-er parents who just love to project their stresses and neuroses onto their children:  If the American school system is a circle-shaped hole, and their child is a square-shaped peg, ritalin can and certainlly will smooth out the kid's edges until he or she fits snugly into our crooked and completely unfounded ideas regarding what "intelligence," "scholasticism," or even "success" are.

Note the danger of going to the OTHER extreme.  No doubt ADD and ADHD are overdiagnosed -- possibly even very substantially overdiagnosed.  And Ritalin and analogues may be heavily oversubscribed -- either for individual reasons or as part of a general trend towards pharmo approaches to behavior.  That doesn't mean ADD and ADHD don't exist, or that Ritalin doesn't help anyone.
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« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2006, 06:07:22 PM »

If you fools would check the longest running most viewed thread in the history of the universe, you would have seen it there.


The strip, for its intent, is brilliant.

For those of us who are huge Calvin and Hobbes fans, it's a huge kick in the gut because of the consequences of what it means. But I've said that before in the longest running most viewed thread in the history of the universe.
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« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2006, 06:15:00 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on August 22, 2006, 06:06:26 PM

That doesn't mean ADD and ADHD don't exist, or that Ritalin doesn't help anyone.
I agree.  But I wasn't even trying to refute that in my post, so I don't see what it has to do with anything.
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« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2006, 06:27:46 PM »

I weep for my thread.  crybaby But you guys go on and enjoy-seems you have a good discussion brewing.
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« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006, 07:41:31 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on August 22, 2006, 06:27:46 PM

I weep for my thread.  crybaby But you guys go on and enjoy-seems you have a good discussion brewing.

I'm sorry.  I wasn't paying attention.   icon_biggrin
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« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006, 07:54:51 PM »

Quote from: warning on August 22, 2006, 07:41:31 PM

Quote from: Calvin on August 22, 2006, 06:27:46 PM

I weep for my thread.  crybaby But you guys go on and enjoy-seems you have a good discussion brewing.

I'm sorry.  I wasn't paying attention.   icon_biggrin
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« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2006, 08:25:17 PM »


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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2006, 12:37:57 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on August 22, 2006, 03:29:28 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on August 22, 2006, 02:37:36 PM


Dude, you and I have always been friends. Bros. Partners in crime. Until today. Sir, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why would you dare even post such a vile, foul, dirty, repulsive, offensive bastardization of that which is so great. Calvin and Hobbes means more to me than you, sir. Nay, it means more to me than the whole internet.

I pray you will reconsider this behavior, and I will proceed to wipe that soulless abomination from my memories forever.

what, can't an evil twin have some fun?  betcha would've read cain the riot act.....  icon_twisted
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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2006, 03:49:38 AM »

Quote from: mytocles on August 22, 2006, 04:16:32 PM


CeeKay, CeeKay, CeeKay.... How could you, CeeKay.... sigh....  icon_cry



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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2006, 06:20:53 AM »

Wow. That is a pretty awful strip.
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