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Author Topic: File this in the 'You can't make this (bleep) up' Dpt:  (Read 1350 times)
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PR_GMR
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« on: April 28, 2008, 10:20:53 PM »

73-year old electrical engineer in Austria kept her daughter as a sex-slave in tiny living compartment of his basement for 24 years.

She had 7 children as a result of the abuse and three of those children (ages 5 to 19) have never seen the light of day!

It's like 'The People Under The Stairs' brought to horrible reality.
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 10:26:53 PM »

Ooh, new avatar.
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Austin
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008, 12:34:00 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on April 28, 2008, 10:26:53 PM

Ooh, new avatar.

He is odd looking but the horrifying person he is... I'm not sure why you'd want him as your avatar. 
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Harkonis
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 12:45:57 PM »

Quote from: Austin on April 29, 2008, 12:34:00 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on April 28, 2008, 10:26:53 PM

Ooh, new avatar.

He is odd looking but the horrifying person he is... I'm not sure why you'd want him as your avatar. 

+666
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Arkon
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2008, 01:01:53 PM »

Man that is just messed up
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2008, 01:03:12 PM »

Quote from: Austin on April 29, 2008, 12:34:00 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on April 28, 2008, 10:26:53 PM

Ooh, new avatar.

He is odd looking but the horrifying person he is... I'm not sure why you'd want him as your avatar. 

Ugh, agreed.
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Austin
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2008, 01:12:34 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on April 29, 2008, 01:01:53 PM

Man that is just messed up

Really, I had to check and see if I was reading it wrong.  His daughter is 24 and he has had 7 kids through her?  And two are 19 and 18.  I'm not the best at math but...  icon_cry
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Remus West
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008, 01:50:25 PM »

Quote from: Austin on April 29, 2008, 01:12:34 PM

Quote from: Arkon on April 29, 2008, 01:01:53 PM

Man that is just messed up

Really, I had to check and see if I was reading it wrong.  His daughter is 24 and he has had 7 kids through her?  And two are 19 and 18.  I'm not the best at math but...  icon_cry
You have to have something wrong in there numbers-wise becaue she could not have a child at 5 years old which is what she would have needed to do for one to be 19.

Quote
Elisabeth Fritzl, 42, says her father lured her into the cellar in 1984 and drugged and handcuffed her before imprisoning her.
Yep.  She was imprisoned for 24 years.  That is not her age.  Not that it makes it any better really.
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Austin
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 01:53:09 PM »

Quote from: Remus West on April 29, 2008, 01:50:25 PM

Quote from: Austin on April 29, 2008, 01:12:34 PM

Quote from: Arkon on April 29, 2008, 01:01:53 PM

Man that is just messed up

Really, I had to check and see if I was reading it wrong.  His daughter is 24 and he has had 7 kids through her?  And two are 19 and 18.  I'm not the best at math but...  icon_cry
You have to have something wrong in there numbers-wise becaue she could not have a child at 5 years old which is what she would have needed to do for one to be 19.

Quote
Elisabeth Fritzl, 42, says her father lured her into the cellar in 1984 and drugged and handcuffed her before imprisoning her.
Yep.  She was imprisoned for 24 years.  That is not her age.  Not that it makes it any better really.

Heh, I reread that too.  Still, gah.
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McNutt
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 02:22:21 PM »

What kind of mental illness could make a person do that?  Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see how a person could do that just because they're evil.  It has to be some horribly twisted brain chemistry that made him do that. Right?  Right???
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Chaz
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2008, 02:23:58 PM »

The oldest daughter is 42, and was kept there for 24 years. 

The craziest part about the whole thing is that apparently the wife and the rest of the "upstairs" family had no idea about the "downstairs" family.  The wife was convinced by the husband that the daughter had run off with a cult, and the three babies left on their doorstep (actually three of the seven the daughter downstairs bore) were the daughter's that she had been unable to care for, and left for them.

I can't imagine what must have been going on between the daughter and the father.  I can't imagine that the sexual abuse started at 18 when she went down to the cellar.  There must have been some serious mind-fuckery going on for a very, very long time.
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PR_GMR
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2008, 02:29:30 PM »

Quote from: Austin on April 29, 2008, 01:53:09 PM

Quote from: Remus West on April 29, 2008, 01:50:25 PM

Quote from: Austin on April 29, 2008, 01:12:34 PM

Quote from: Arkon on April 29, 2008, 01:01:53 PM

Man that is just messed up

Really, I had to check and see if I was reading it wrong.  His daughter is 24 and he has had 7 kids through her?  And two are 19 and 18.  I'm not the best at math but...  icon_cry
You have to have something wrong in there numbers-wise becaue she could not have a child at 5 years old which is what she would have needed to do for one to be 19.

Quote
Elisabeth Fritzl, 42, says her father lured her into the cellar in 1984 and drugged and handcuffed her before imprisoning her.
Yep.  She was imprisoned for 24 years.  That is not her age.  Not that it makes it any better really.

Heh, I reread that too.  Still, gah.

Yeah, she was 18 back in 1984 when she was imprisoned. Can you imagine that?! Living in a dark, tiny basement for 24 years.

I was 11 years in old in 1984, loving my Transformers TV show and toys, and just being a kid. Think of all the world events that have transpired since--the fallout of the Chernobyl reactor (1986 I believe), the Berlin Wall fell (1989, I think), The Gulf War (early 90s). That woman has been 'down there' all that time.

And of the kids that have been there their entire lives, never having seen daylight? Psychologically, those kids are from a different planet. Just a horrible situation to try to get your mind around.
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rickfc
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 02:41:53 PM »

I just can't imagine, as a father, how you could subject your child to such torture.  This man deserves to be hung by his testicles and left to die.
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Razgon
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2008, 04:02:33 PM »

The question is then, why do we punish people? Because, this guy has been certified as suffering from serious personality disorders and a severe lack of self esteem by criminologist and psychologists, so , he wasnt "evil", just sick...

While what he did is one of the worst possible crimes, he is actually sick...

being a parent, my first reaction is hang the guy, but then again...that would mean everyone with a mental illness should be held accountable in total for their actions - do we want that?

I dont...
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UsulofDoom
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2008, 04:36:30 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on April 29, 2008, 04:02:33 PM

The question is then, why do we punish people? Because, this guy has been certified as suffering from serious personality disorders and a severe lack of self esteem by criminologist and psychologists, so , he wasnt "evil", just sick...

While what he did is one of the worst possible crimes, he is actually sick...

being a parent, my first reaction is hang the guy, but then again...that would mean everyone with a mental illness should be held accountable in total for their actions - do we want that?

I dont...

You don't keep rabid dogs. You just put them down.

If found guilty he could get 15 or 20 years.Les then what he gave his child. I'm also sure his imprisonment will be a hell of a lot better that what he put his children through.
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2008, 04:45:04 PM »

Quote from: McNutt on April 29, 2008, 02:22:21 PM

What kind of mental illness could make a person do that?  Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see how a person could do that just because they're evil.  It has to be some horribly twisted brain chemistry that made him do that. Right?  Right???

That was my first thought (hope?) too.  But then I realised he had been keeping the whole thing hidden from the rest of his family - for years.  I'm no psychologist, but that suggests to me that the whole thing was cold and calculated.
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rickfc
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2008, 04:47:59 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on April 29, 2008, 04:02:33 PM

being a parent, my first reaction is hang the guy, but then again...that would mean everyone with a mental illness should be held accountable in total for their actions - do we want that?

I dont...

And you don't think that exactly because of that reason, people who commit heinous crimes use "mental illness" as their cop-out?  I mean, seriously. 

When I was growing up, there was no such thing as ADHD.  You got your ass handed to you by your parents until you brought your grades up.  I know ADHD is a far cry from whatever this asshole may be inflicted with, but that doesn't pardon his actions, nor should it exonerate him.

While I do agree that there are mental illnesses and the people suffering from them should be treated, people like this man will have the option, should he survive the length of his sentence, of walking out of a prison or mental institution with the very possible option of repeating his offense.  As Usul stated,

Quote
You don't keep rabid dogs

You can argue that many criminal acts are caused by some sort of mental disorder.  Does that make the perpetrator any less guilty or less responsible?  No.  Especially when a child is involved.

Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 29, 2008, 04:45:04 PM

he had been keeping the whole thing hidden from the rest of his family - for years.  I'm no psychologist, but that suggests to me that the whole thing was cold and calculated.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 04:50:58 PM by rickfc » Logged
TK-421
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 06:36:11 PM »

Quote from: Juan Rico - Starship Troopers
Well, we shoot mad dogs, don’t we?

Yes, but being crazy that way is a sickness — I couldn’t see but two possibilities. Either he couldn’t be made well — in which case he was better dead for his own sake and for the safety of others — or he could be treated and made sane. In which case (it seemed to me) if he ever became sane enough for civilized society . . . and thought over what he had done while he was "sick" — what could be left for him but suicide? How could he live with himself?

And suppose he escaped before he was cured and did the same thing again? And maybe again? How do you explain that to bereaved parents? In view of his record?

I couldn’t see but one answer
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 07:37:24 PM by TK-421 » Logged

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Razgon
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 06:53:06 PM »

hmm, well, I see your points of course, but its still an interesting debate, especially seen in the light of why we punish people...

Perhaps my point of comes from having a mother who suffers from schizophrenia...the worst thing she has done is shout at people in the mayors office while she was really down, and say and do some strange things, but it still does offer some perspective for me at least, on what to do about those who are mentally ill somehow.

The whole thing is horrible, and I dont understand how human beings can treat each other like that, and how the rest of the family and the neighboors as well could be blind to it, but, real life is stranger than fiction I guess...
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Remus West
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 07:00:04 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on April 29, 2008, 06:53:06 PM

hmm, well, I see your points of course, but its still an interesting debate, especially seen in the light of why we punish people...

Perhaps my point of comes from having a mother who suffers from schizophrenia...the worst thing she has done is shout at people in the mayors office while she was really down, and say and do some strange things, but it still does offer some perspective for me at least, on what to do about those who are mentally ill somehow.

The whole thing is horrible, and I dont understand how human beings can treat each other like that, and how the rest of the family and the neighboors as well could be blind to it, but, real life is stranger than fiction I guess...
Not all mental illnesses are created equal.  Your mothers may be comparable to hip-displacia rather than the rabies this guy had.  One can be treated and lived with because, while being a burden, does not make the sufferer directly or inherently dangerous to society.  The other.......well, I saw Old Yeller.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2009, 02:45:58 PM »

Quote from: Reuters
ST POELTEN, Austria (Reuters) - Josef Fritzl was sentenced to life in a psychiatric hospital Thursday for locking up and raping his daughter over 24 years, fathering seven children with her, and causing the death of an infant son.
...
They said his condition would be re-evaluated in 15 years and, in theory, if he were deemed cured, he could be released. But both Fritzl and his lawyer has said they expected he would have to spend the rest of his life incarcerated.

Fritzl, 73, had pleaded guilty to incest, rape, enslavement, coercion and murder, by neglect, in the death of a newborn boy underground. He initially denied the murder and slavery counts but reversed his plea after watching 11 hours of videotaped testimony from daughter Elisabeth screened in court Tuesday.

Fritzl was found guilty of murder of the newborn, the most serious charge, because he failed to seek help despite knowing the boy was in danger of dying.
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