Episode III: REVENGE OF THE SITH

[th'FOOL]

'nuff said!

official word

[Nth Power]

That's a decent enough title that sounds pretty cool.  Attack of the Clones wasn't bad either, but then again, after Phantom Menace almost anything sounded good.

[Destructor]

The only reason I'm going to this movie is because I've seen (and wasted my time in) the first two films of this 'trilogy'. Thank you, Lucas, for screwing up what was once a great license and name.

Bring back Sam and Max!  

[jimmyorr99]

the thing that pisses me off is phantom could have been good, if jarjar just left after a while or didnt talk as much, then it would have been ok, and if some of the dialogue was a little better, but mainly jar jar if you can get by him i like the movie, but thats atough task.

[Knightshade Dragon]

Revenge of the Jedi was the original title for RotJ, so this isn't a huge leap.

[stiffler]

the thing that pisses me off is phantom could have been good, if jarjar just left after a while or didnt talk as much, then it would have been ok, and if some of the dialogue was a little better, but mainly jar jar if you can get by him i like the movie, but thats atough task.

First off, I didn't mind Jar Jar one bit.  So you can probably disregard the rest of my opinions accordingly. :lol:

I didn't think Phantom Menace was that good a film.  It was crushed under its own weight of rediculous political intrigue and poor pacing.  Star Wars is an action franchise with a bit of metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, not Judgement at Nuremberg.

I thought much of Attack of the Clones was fantastic, particularly the final half hour or so, which honestly made me forget the rest of the movie.

The problem with the movies, as I see it, is the writing.  The scripts are terrible.  The pacing could certainly use some work, and the romance is just high cheese that would embarass the cast of an after-school special.

And one last thing for those that want to cry about ruining the franchise: is the original trilogy any worse now that these have been made?  Well, besides the special edition changes.  They still stand on their own.  The books, with few exceptions, bring their own special kind of suck to the brand.  The games are hit or miss.  Obviously there is still a lot of love for the franchise or we would all just be giving a collective shrug.

Devastator:
Your reasoning is why I still subject myself to the tedium that Robert Jordan publishes.  I don't want to, but I've invested so much time and energy that I can't stop now!
And yes, Sam and Max ruled.  I don't know if you can still find the reprints in graphic novel form, but they are great.

[aledromo]

And one last thing for those that want to cry about ruining the franchise: is the original trilogy any worse now that these have been made?

Mr. Stiffler.  My respect and adoration of your work and character are well documented in these pages.  However, as a matter of principle I feel it is my duty to remove my glove and strike you firmly across the mouth for your blasphemy in the above statement.  Good day, sir.

[stiffler]

Senator Binks pwn3d d00d.

I have a bust of Jar Jar in my office!  All credibility destroyed!  Are wesa gonna die?

[aledromo]

You're only going to make me hit you harder.

[jimmyorr99]

ok stiffler, i see what you are saying. jar jar was bearable and the introduction of his character are, as we now know, very nesecary, but his fast ebonics talking persona wasnt good, it felt like a cop out to kids. if he could have been a little less like a guy from whinny the pooh, id be set.
as far as the pace, i liked it, but honestly, it was the most unimportant movie of the series, nothignreally happened, you see r2d2, anakin is introduced and freed, obi won is set on his own as a jedi knight, and palpatine gains some power, but other than that... nothing big really happens not anything like episode two, which contains many huge events.

oh i guess naboo was saved, which sets the stage for the next movie, but i didnt really feel like it should have been, where as in ep IV i was cheering for the rebels.

my two cents

[stiffler]

Alright, to set the record straight: Jar Jar was terrible.  Lucas was so obviously trying to hit the younger kids with that and I think he was fairly successful.  Unfortunately a lot of older fans felt that Lucas owed them something and was supposed to be making a movie for them.  He didn't.  Instead he made a pretty terrible movie with paper-thin characters that children would love and a plot that no child (and most adults) could follow.

Attack of the Clones seemed like it got everything back on the page as far as the Star Wars mythos (as it is now, with the books) is all about.  Real secrets of the Jedi, the design of the Death Star, and the start of the legendary Clone Wars.  In my mind it succeeded far better than the first.  Now had they combined the first two (after editing the hell out of the first) I think people might have been a bit more impressed.

Unfortunately we have one movie left to get us to where we stand in A New Hope.  Is a way to do that over the course of one film?  I would have to imagine this next one is going to be a dark film where very little will go right for the good guys, judging by the state of the Jedi and the rebellion when we see them in ANH.

I really want to like the movies.  For the most part I have enjoyed them.  They don't stand up to the originals, but when you watch RotJ it's the logical extension (muppets and kid-friendly marketing).

Jar Jar will become a Sith Lord in Episode III.  Beware Darth Mesothelioma!

[aledromo]

I have an apology to make.  I just read Stiffler's original post and realize that I misread it.  The new movies suck, but they have in no way affected my enjoyment of the original three movies.  They suck so badly that I manage to completely write them off as having no actual affiliation to the beloved initial trilogy.  That said, Mr. Stiffler was correct, and is indeed entitled to strike me, quite hard, across the mouth with his glove.   His other points are also valid.

However, they ignore that in addition to threadbare plots, there are also GLARING plot holes.  If he's so concerned about his mother and works for a group with seemingly infinite resources, how come Anakin cannot have her sent for and bought as soon as he touches down on Coruscant?  Why not cast the teenage Anakin in the first movie so that when Yoda says "he's too old for the training" it actually makes sense rather than have us believe Jedi training begins as talented zygotes - this would also have made the romance much less creepy.  

Forget it, I could do this all night.  The point is, I like lightsaber noises, so I'll go see the next one...at midnight.  Because that is what I do.  However, these never should have happened and represent, at best, a missed opportunity.

[stiffler]

I have an apology to make.  I just read Stiffler's original post and realize that I misread it...That said, Mr. Stiffler was correct, and is indeed entitled to strike me, quite hard, across the mouth with his glove.   His other points are also valid.

I was kind of wondering what happened there!

Instead of slapping you I'm going to subject you to my stirring a capella rendition of the Ewok celebration song over Xbox Live!

[aledromo]

As long as you don't mind me singing Max Reebo's cantina song back at you.

[Lockdown]

I was probably most dissapointed with the actors chosen to play young Vader.

I know a little bit about Lucas, his movie making philosophies, etc...  I know his goal was always to make the movies for the younger audience first, the adults second.  He has stated this numerous times.  I also understand his fascination with the particular style of movie making he is into (can't remember the name of it right now).  

What I am really perplexed about is his agreement to the casting director's choice of Anakin's.  This is bizarre.  As I watched both films, I couldn't help thinking, "Maybe he WANTS these Anakin's to act this poorly.  Why else would he let this trainwreck continue?"  

Maybe it's just me.

LD

[whiteboyskim]

I will slap all you down hard, just on principle.

/slaps everyone hard, on principle

Jar-Jar's role in the saga is, regretably, noteworthy. Much unlike his character, I might add. As a character, Jar-Jar brings nothing to the table, much like the Ewoks, other than a plot contrivance.

I will heartily agree that the scripts have uniformly sucked ("I don't like sand. It's course and rough.") but that quite a lot moved the story forward in "Attack of the Clones" (also one of the dumbest and worst titles I've ever heard). I will disagree with my friend Kirk over at GG about the love story. Overall, it shows young love and his point was that Anakin just tells Padme that he loves her until she agrees with him and that we never actually see it. We do see it in the way they roll around on the grass, the looks they exchange at the picnic and while eating at the dinner table. The way he uses the Force to make her smile by cutting her food. It's glorified puppy love, and as a contrast to the adult love of Han and Leia I think it works.

The one scene I skip past because it doesn't work on any level is the fireplace scene. That's where he says he loves her until she agrees with him, and that scene blows. Not to mention it's just poorly written and badly acted.

I will say that Natalie Portman has done the absolute worst acting job in the series, and that's a pretty steep order. I normally like her, but Amidala is a stiff bore that admittedly has a fantastic stomach. Otherwise, she's useless. I recall when Leia mentioned in "Jedi" how her mother was beautiful but sad, I now think: "No, Leia. She was beautiful alright, but she didn't have any other expressions."

I really hope we have a bang-up finish to the prequels, I really do. My friend Kirk is going spastic about how the movies don't follow the normal script structure, and while I'd agree on that I can understand Lucas' logic behind that. This is one 6-film story. Breaking that down into screen acts is easier if you look at it like that.

[aledromo]

Anakin just tells Padme that he loves her until she agrees with him and that we never actually see it.

In one sentence, you've managed to explain my biggest problem with this component of the new trilogy. It also would have been nice, as mentioned, if Anakin started out the same age as her.  I still have no idea why Lucas agreed to the kid from Jingle All the Way.

[jimmyorr99]

hahah your right! i knew he was familiar and having erased that pice of trash from my memory i couldnt remember from where.

i hope we are on the same page stiffler. we dislike jar jar yet see his purpose as one of great importance (the idiot who turns over the republic into the hands on the new emperor) my problem with the potrayals in the movies are that the republic falls and the empire begins and begins to sweep across the galaxy, yet only 2 (soon to be 3) of the movies are really dark.

[whiteboyskim]

That's because you have to consider the world as it was prior to Palpatine. He sensed the Republic was weak because it had become complacent. The Jedi had sealed themselves off in an ivory tower above all others, when the Force flows through every living thing. As such, the Jedi should, by default, be out among the people helping out and living as them, not revering themselves high above the normal people. The senate had become bogged down in formality and paperwork and nothing was getting accomplished. Into that a master politician comes and casually takes over, and does so legally. But he's also got to be a Force master to blind the Jedi to his plans. I'm hoping in the next one they show how he could blind the Jedi and how he got so powerful so quickly without anyone noticing.

The story of a complacent society handing the keys to the kingdom to an absolute ruler who promised better times (and that he would lay down the power he was granted) is what everything boils down to. An added bonus is how the most powerful person in the universe fell from grace, and through his son's love is redeemed and defeats the evil emperor.

[jimmyorr99]

does palpatine in his early days remind you alittle of hitler?

[whiteboyskim]

does palpatine in his early days remind you alittle of hitler?

I think that was the point, though imagine it more as Nero presiding over the fall of the Roman Empire.

[aledromo]

Mitch, if you weren't getting married already I'd propose.  Masterful insight.

[whiteboyskim]

Mitch, if you weren't getting married already I'd propose.  Masterful insight.

That's frightening, and thank you.

I've heard that a lot was stolen from Asimov's Foundation series but I've never read that so I can't vouch for it. I can, however, vouch for him stealing a lot of ideas from Akira Kurisawa's "The Hidden Fortress" as I've seen it. A lot of similar things there, though the movie is sloooooow.

[aledromo]

Lucky for both of us that you are, then.

I had heard about the Kurosawa influence, but the Asimov is new.  I don't frankly care what inspired him as he turned it into something quite cool back then.  We need to send him back to the video store or something because the inspiration he's gotten from watching C-Span isn't nearly enough to carry these new ones.

[whiteboyskim]

I'm not arguing that it's boring as hell, but consider the differences between the two series. The first series (prequels) is set in the heart of the Republic, where everything is about politics and policy and the corruption within, only on a galactic scale. Contrast this with the original series where everything was essentially set on the frontier, or galactic rim. Tattooine, Hoth, Bespin, Dagobah, Endor are all set in the far reaches of the galaxy where it's basically the Wild West. Compare that with the formalities and normalcy of Coruscant and Naboo, and you can see why the two series have such distinct feels.

That and Lucas sucks as a dialogue writer as Harrison Ford infamously remarked once, "You can write this shit, but you sure can't say it."

[aledromo]

Dialogue is where it starts and ends.  Compare the memorable lines, the witty exchanges and snappy retorts of the first series with any of the droll in the new ones and you'll see this.  Lightsabers were cool and all, but I really think the roguish charm of Han Solo, the fiery yet proper attitude of Leia, and the Zen Muppet stylings of Yoda are among the most significant reasons the originals are so well loved and timeless.  

Side note: I enjoyed how in the original movies, you could have a conversation with a beeping droid without simply repeating everything the droid said and adding a response.  That's good writing!  Really immersed you in the galaxy.

I hate to disagree with you, Mitch, but these new movies are boring to me.  Maybe I prefer the wild west to parliament's powdered wigs, but I feel like the new movies aren't capturing either side well.  In fact, they seem to be one melodramatic Ally McBeal scene wedged between an expensively shot video game sequence and repeated ad nauseum.

[whiteboyskim]

Where do I say the new ones were exciting? They're boring as hell, save for the Obi-Wan vs. Maul fight and the last half hour of "AOTC". I'm just pointing out the differences in the two styles of the series, not arguing the merits of them. It helped the first set when they had Lawrence Kasden as credited co-writer and Steven Spielberg and others as uncredited writers. Left alone, Lucas comes up with "It's course and rough."  :roll:

[aledromo]

I'm not arguing that it's boring as hell, but consider the differences between the two series

Guess I misread that.  Sorry.

I agree that Darth Torso was awesome.  The sequence wherein Obi-Wan runs in and goes one on one with Maul after Qui-Gon buys it represents the finest 20 seconds in the last 10 years of cinema.  The new lightsaber fights (well, the ones with Darth Maul) amazed me becuase previously the sabers had relied on tension and emotion to excite you.  That was the first time they went all action, and it was to great effect.  

That said, I've been sad that so far Lucas has introduced two awesome villains and killed each one before the end of the movie.  Maul...Fett...you are remembered.

I recall wishing that the clones in the army they mentioned would all be of Darth Maul.  Ah well.

[whiteboyskim]

Yeah, I don't quite get the setting up of uber-cool villains only to off them so quickly. I'd like the films to have consistent villains, then Anakin mows through all of them. The upcoming General Grievous looks like another one of them. Wheee.

[jimmyorr99]

your right, they have killed off alot of villians, but if you think about it, they do that with boba fett across esb and rotj he was the coolest, then he was dead
spoiler-------------
except he doesnt die!

they also did it with some good characters......biggs and dodonna, although he doesnt die in the movie

[whiteboyskim]

That's like saying it meant something for them to kill Chewbacca off in the books. Hell no it didn't mean anything, because Chewie is always has been a visual character who speaks in roars. He's described ONLY in the books, and thus killing him off has no significance because he's a description-only character. Now, had Chewie died at the end of Jedi, it would have meant something wholely different. Han finding Chewie dying on the forest floor of Endor would have been sad beyond belief.

The books were once considered canon, though I wouldn't think so anymore. The later ones possibly, but I don't see how a lot of them can fit into the overall story now. Not to mention I stopped reading them a while back mainly due to the suck factor growing exponentially with each new book.  :twisted:

[aledromo]

Again risking my dork card, I've never read a single book and never intend to.  The movies, the first three, were all the story I needed.  The new ones are like some disconnected story taking place in a different universe that also has lightsaber technology.  The books are less than that.

[whiteboyskim]

Good call. The books are scattershot, some good, some terrible, most mediocre. Not having read the SW books is not a sign of not being a true geek. Not knowing who Sledge Hammer is, though, is a different story. :twisted:

[aledromo]

Hey, I was right there on Lieutenant Hammer.  Whew.  Once again, his .44 Magnum makes me feel safe.

[jimmyorr99]

haha. i didnt mean to imply that it was something meaningful when good characters die, i was simply pointing out the fact that they also die, in addition to the likeable bad characters.

[whiteboyskim]

True, though part of me thinks it would have been much more dramatic to have Lando and the Falcon not make it when the Death Star blows up. Watching the ending of Jedi though, I can hardly think it could end any other way.

Except maybe the Rebels realizing the Imps had it right and start shooting Ewoks left and right. That could have been fun.  :twisted:

[jimmyorr99]

lol you are right about the whole lando thing, but i guess he serves a purpose in later novels and such, so there would be a large plot hole for him.

[Knightshade Dragon]

Ahem...



Yep...I found a purpose.

[Purge]

"I'll take care of her like she was my own [ ... ] I promise."  :lol:

[jimmyorr99]

dude he rocks. hes out fo work now though. he even had time to do a real voiceover for jedi outcast.....thats sad, they couldnt even get mark hamill.