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Author Topic: Ender's Game? SF Book Question  (Read 1835 times)
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Eco-Logic
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« on: September 15, 2008, 05:59:08 PM »

Any fans of Ender's Game here? 

I just finished it and really enjoyed it.  It was certainly a quick read, but I really enjoyed the story, characters and pace. 

For those of you that read it, are the next 3 books in the series worth reading as well (Speaker for the Dead, Xenoside & Children of the Mind?)

I am definitely on a SF/Fantasy kick and am either going to read Speaker for the Dead next, or Dune (which I've always wanted to read), or maybe something else, still not sure.

Eco
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2008, 06:16:20 PM »

Speaker for the Dead is quite worth reading and is also a classic but you should be aware that the rest of the initial set of books is *nothing* like Ender's Game.  I never got far into Xenocide and most people think that and Children of the Mind were major steps back.

Card's "new" Enders sequels (starting with Ender's Shadow which is a retelling of Ender's Game from Bean's point of view) supposedly have far more in common and may be of more interest for fans of Ender's Game. 
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2008, 06:18:20 PM »

If you want more of what you liked about Ender's Game, read the parallel novel Ender's Shadow and its sequels.  Great stuff.

If you want to find out more about what happens to Ender himself and don't mind reading a completely different style of novels, then go ahead with Speaker for the Dead and the original sequels.  Also great stuff--though a little weird at times-- but really not at all like the original novel.

Oh, and for a quick fun read take a look at First Meetings, a collection of four short stories related to the Ender storyline, including the original Ender's Game short story that spawned the novel.
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2008, 06:19:02 PM »

while they do build on the saga of ender, they make a different story of their own and the ties to EG become faint.  OSC's later series in the universe is a better continuation of ender's game and take place in the same time and space.  
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2008, 06:34:15 PM »

What they said.  I really liked Speaker for the Dead, not so much Xenocide and didn't bother with Children of the Mind. 
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2008, 06:37:20 PM »

Good deal, thanks for the info.  Heading to the bookstore now.

Eco
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 08:13:41 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on September 15, 2008, 06:34:15 PM

What they said.  I really liked Speaker for the Dead, not so much Xenocide and didn't bother with Children of the Mind. 

This.
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 08:14:08 PM »

Enders game was one of the most depressing books I've ever read. Hard reading a book where nobody is ever happy.
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2008, 08:34:34 PM »

I loved Ender's Game and I read the 3 follow-ups and Ender's Shadow.  IMHO, none of them were near as good as EG.  Ender's Shadow was a fun read, but the others just left me scratching my head.  They were just...weird...and heavy on religion...weird religion.  The one with the girl with the OCD I thought was actually bad whereas the others at least had some entertaining chunks.
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2008, 08:48:22 PM »

I read Ender's Game recently, and wasn't terribly impressed.  I found it extremely repetitive (Ender challenges tough guys.  Wins.  Gets matched against tougher guys.  Wins.   Gets matched against even tougher guys.  Wins.  Rinse, repeat.), and although the big reveal was cool, I was basically bored out of my skull by that point and didn't really care.  I also found it very off-putting to treat the 8 year old protagonist like a fully mature adult.  I know he was a child prodigy, but some of Ender's internal monologues would have challenged 60 year old nuclear physicists, much less the mind of a child.
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2008, 09:23:59 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on September 15, 2008, 08:48:22 PM

I read Ender's Game recently, and wasn't terribly impressed.  I found it extremely repetitive (Ender challenges tough guys.  Wins.  Gets matched against tougher guys.  Wins.   Gets matched against even tougher guys.  Wins.  Rinse, repeat.), and although the big reveal was cool, I was basically bored out of my skull by that point and didn't really care.  I also found it very off-putting to treat the 8 year old protagonist like a fully mature adult.  I know he was a child prodigy, but some of Ender's internal monologues would have challenged 60 year old nuclear physicists, much less the mind of a child.

I have to agree. When I read it a while ago, I couldn't help think it would have worked a lot better as a short story with a twist ending.  And then I found out it had been.
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2008, 11:29:58 PM »

What everyone here said...I didn't like the latter parts of the series where they talk more of

Spoiler for Hiden:
his relationship - his marriage, the piggies, etc.  I thought it lost the touch that started EG.

I did find Ender's Shadow to be an interesting read, as it is the same story told from another boy's viewpoint.
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 12:56:49 AM »

I must be one of the few who didn't like it. Didn't like the theme of the book, ie using children to fight a war. I was actually pretty pissed off at the way they were treating him.  Am I the only one? Oops, I guess there are. Didn't fully read the thread.
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2008, 01:08:11 AM »

Quote from: Rumpy on September 16, 2008, 12:56:49 AM

I must be one of the few who didn't like it. Didn't like the theme of the book, ie using children to fight a war. I was actually pretty pissed off at the way they were treating him.  Am I the only one? Oops, I guess there are. Didn't fully read the thread.

I was bothered about that at first - but then thought, its a book - a sci-fi/fantasy novel.  I've read worst and seen worse in RL.
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 01:58:04 AM »

Quote from: Zero on September 16, 2008, 01:08:11 AM

Quote from: Rumpy on September 16, 2008, 12:56:49 AM

I must be one of the few who didn't like it. Didn't like the theme of the book, ie using children to fight a war. I was actually pretty pissed off at the way they were treating him.  Am I the only one? Oops, I guess there are. Didn't fully read the thread.

I was bothered about that at first - but then thought, its a book - a sci-fi/fantasy novel.  I've read worst and seen worse in RL.

Yeah, see that's the thing. It's the fact that it was sci-fi that bothered me the most when there IS in fact kids in other countries fighting wars in real life. I felt it was almost as if it was saying it was OK for it to happen, and that disgusted me.
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2008, 06:23:44 AM »

I just read the Bean storyline books for the first time in the last several weeks and I enjoyed it way more than Xenocide and Children of the Mind, which I had to slog through at several points.

Quote from: Rumpy on September 16, 2008, 01:58:04 AM

Quote from: Zero on September 16, 2008, 01:08:11 AM

Quote from: Rumpy on September 16, 2008, 12:56:49 AM

I must be one of the few who didn't like it. Didn't like the theme of the book, ie using children to fight a war. I was actually pretty pissed off at the way they were treating him.  Am I the only one? Oops, I guess there are. Didn't fully read the thread.

I was bothered about that at first - but then thought, its a book - a sci-fi/fantasy novel.  I've read worst and seen worse in RL.

Yeah, see that's the thing. It's the fact that it was sci-fi that bothered me the most when there IS in fact kids in other countries fighting wars in real life. I felt it was almost as if it was saying it was OK for it to happen, and that disgusted me.

I can understand your point of view, but they were hinging the entire human race on finding a leader that could always find a way to win.  The discussions between Graff and his associate (can't recall the name) played up the fact that they absolutely detested what they had to do to Ender, but humanity as a whole rested on them do it.  It wasn't a fight between Iraq and Iran where they were throwing kids with AKs out there to fight over what amounts to little, or some warlords' territory battles in Mogadishu.  The fleet wasn't happy at the fact they had to rush the kids through schooling but they were up against a wall since they didn't know if and when another bugger attack was coming.
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2008, 06:54:16 AM »

loved the book, and the follow-ups as well..cant wait to see this on the big-screen
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2008, 01:07:55 PM »

Quote from: SkyLander on September 15, 2008, 08:14:08 PM

Enders game was one of the most depressing books I've ever read. Hard reading a book where nobody is ever happy.

Try reading the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. You'll just LOVE that series. Tongue
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2008, 01:23:28 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 16, 2008, 01:07:55 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on September 15, 2008, 08:14:08 PM

Enders game was one of the most depressing books I've ever read. Hard reading a book where nobody is ever happy.

Try reading the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. You'll just LOVE that series. Tongue

The most uplifting series I've ever read! 

Every likable character in the entire series is killed off....but none of this is real, I'm in a coma.... 
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2008, 01:30:33 PM »

Quote from: Purge on September 16, 2008, 01:07:55 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on September 15, 2008, 08:14:08 PM

Enders game was one of the most depressing books I've ever read. Hard reading a book where nobody is ever happy.

Try reading the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. You'll just LOVE that series. Tongue

Man, I hated those books.  I know Covenant was intended to be an anti-hero, but it was taken to such an extreme, and the character was such a colossal douchebag that it completely turned me off.
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2008, 02:49:06 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on September 16, 2008, 01:30:33 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 16, 2008, 01:07:55 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on September 15, 2008, 08:14:08 PM

Enders game was one of the most depressing books I've ever read. Hard reading a book where nobody is ever happy.

Try reading the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. You'll just LOVE that series. Tongue

Man, I hated those books.  I know Covenant was intended to be an anti-hero, but it was taken to such an extreme, and the character was such a colossal douchebag that it completely turned me off.

I actually bought the book from the SF Book Club and I tried twice to get through it.  I never got more than halfway through it.
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2008, 03:10:22 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on September 16, 2008, 02:49:06 PM

Quote from: Gratch on September 16, 2008, 01:30:33 PM

Quote from: Purge on September 16, 2008, 01:07:55 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on September 15, 2008, 08:14:08 PM

Enders game was one of the most depressing books I've ever read. Hard reading a book where nobody is ever happy.

Try reading the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. You'll just LOVE that series. Tongue

Man, I hated those books.  I know Covenant was intended to be an anti-hero, but it was taken to such an extreme, and the character was such a colossal douchebag that it completely turned me off.

I actually bought the book from the SF Book Club and I tried twice to get through it.  I never got more than halfway through it.

Yeah, I should have actually just said "book".  I only got 2/3 of the way through the first one before putting it aside in disgust.
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2008, 03:33:57 PM »

I read Xenocide.  It was interesting, but weird.  I wasn't crazy about it.  It seems he put a lot of theory in there, and towards the end, it just goes totally off the rails.
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2008, 04:19:29 PM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on September 16, 2008, 03:33:57 PM

I read Xenocide.  It was interesting, but weird.  I wasn't crazy about it.  It seems he put a lot of theory in there, and towards the end, it just goes totally off the rails.

Sounds like "IT" by King. 

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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2008, 06:19:31 PM »

in a similar vein, i would recommend john scalzi's books.  they have an EG, starship troopers feel to them with a different take on soldiers' age.  pretty cool, and i would love for it to hit the big screen.  three of them so far, 'old man's war', 'ghost brigade', and 'last colony', with a fourth coming sometime next year.  old man's war was made a free e-book earlier in the year, but the link is mia.
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2008, 07:13:07 PM »

Quote from: Caine on September 16, 2008, 06:19:31 PM

in a similar vein, i would recommend john scalzi's books.  they have an EG, starship troopers feel to them with a different take on soldiers' age.  pretty cool, and i would love for it to hit the big screen.  three of them so far, 'old man's war', 'ghost brigade', and 'last colony', with a fourth coming sometime next year.  old man's war was made a free e-book earlier in the year, but the link is mia.

Fourth is out now actually (Zoe's Tale). 

I would definitely recommend the first, Old Man's War and I agree it's perfectly designed for a fun movie.  However I found Scalzi's shtick getting old with the second and have no desire to read anymore in the series.
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