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Author Topic: Dark Knight Spoilers Discussion Thread!  (Read 9378 times)
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kadnod
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« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2008, 07:53:28 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on July 21, 2008, 07:17:29 PM

i don't think they went out of their way to avoid showing her face so much as she was so inconsequential to the story that showing a close up of a table would have held as much significance to the story.

It just struck me as weird that the actress always has an excuse to have her face buried in her mom's armpit or something during that whole hostage/kidnapping bit.  There's even a happy-family-reunion shot where you don't really see her.  Maybe I noticed it more because I was wondering why they bothered giving Gordon a son that (AFAIK) he never had in the comics ? I mean, I didn't expect the little girl to start throwing batarangs or bite Two-Face in the nards or anything. 

(OK, I hoped that would happen, but I didn't expect it. )
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« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2008, 07:58:57 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on July 21, 2008, 07:48:24 PM

Quote
I completely and utterly disagree.  The final fate of Two Face was essential to the Joker's storyline.

I felt that the mere act of turning Harvey into Two Face was resolution enough for The Joker's storyline. He triumphed in corrupting Harvey, and the extent of that corruption could be played out in another movie. What I didn't like is Two Face's activities after he got out of the hospital - it seemed like an extremely rushed story arc for another villain. "Hey I'm Two Face! Let me quickly do some bad stuff and oh nos, I fell off a building and now I'm dead kthxbye."

However, as it stands I kind of hope that Two Face is indeed dead. Another movie featuring him would just make me pissed that they tried to cram so much of him into the last fifth of this one.

There's no way that Nolan could have shown the Joker's victory over Dent's incorruptible world view without displaying the depths of immorality that Dent was willing to explore after Rachel's death and his own disfigurement.  Playing it out in a sequel would have lessened that victory considerably.  It would have left the audience believing that the external scars were the joker's ultimate goal, when it was the internal ones that were the true prize. 

When Dent threatened to kill Gordon's young son, that was the moment that The Joker had won.

Quote
I was wondering why they bothered giving Gordon a son that (AFAIK) he never had in the comics ?

You know, i had that exact same thought when they introduced his character.   icon_confused
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« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2008, 08:09:31 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on July 21, 2008, 07:58:57 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on July 21, 2008, 07:48:24 PM

I was wondering why they bothered giving Gordon a son that (AFAIK) he never had in the comics ?
You know, i had that exact same thought when they introduced his character.   icon_confused


You could almost blame Crisis on Infinite Earth.

But there were (was) (are) a Son.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 08:19:39 PM by chaosraven » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2008, 08:16:35 PM »

Don't forget that Joker also promised Batman he would make him break his one rule before everything was over (his one rule is that he will not kill).  When Dent died, Joker won.
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« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2008, 08:21:05 PM »

Quote from: Covenant on July 21, 2008, 08:16:35 PM

Don't forget that Joker also promised Batman he would make him break his one rule before everything was over (his one rule is that he will not kill).  When Dent died, Joker won.

good catch, i'd forgotten completely about that!
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2008, 08:27:57 PM »

Quote from: Covenant on July 21, 2008, 08:16:35 PM

Don't forget that Joker also promised Batman he would make him break his one rule before everything was over (his one rule is that he will not kill).  When Dent died, Joker won.

Ding!Ding!Ding! I like how the whole movie is an epic battle over Harvey Dent's soul. The Joker really puts the screws to Batman. Although the movie is long, it's extra half hour is warranted in order to resolve this battle.
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« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2008, 08:40:26 PM »

What I didnt like was the ending as far as the Joker was concerned.
They left his character just hanging. Literally.

No followup. And no indication as to what the future may hold, as they did in Batman Begins.
I was fully expecting some type of hint as to what may be next, but unless I totally missed it, and based on the observations here, I didnt, I'm leaning towards this being the end. Cant see how any future story and characters can possibly equal or top this one.
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« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2008, 08:41:18 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on July 21, 2008, 08:21:05 PM

Quote from: Covenant on July 21, 2008, 08:16:35 PM

Don't forget that Joker also promised Batman he would make him break his one rule before everything was over (his one rule is that he will not kill).  When Dent died, Joker won.

good catch, i'd forgotten completely about that!

+1...I had completely forgotten about that...that is, if Dent is dead after all.  I think they left that up to audience interpretation and as a way to bring the character back, should they choose to, in future installments.
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« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2008, 09:16:00 PM »

Quote
No followup. And no indication as to what the future may hold, as they did in Batman Begins.

I'm guessing the next one will be about Batman being hunted as a villan himself and clearing his name.  I thought the movie ended with a big cliffhanger... him taking the blame for Harvey's crimes and going on the lam. 
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« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2008, 10:00:28 PM »

Surprisingly, I didn't enjoy the movie much at all during a second viewing last night. I thought for sure that I would love it just as much as the first time through but there's almost nothing new to catch from watching it again. It made me realize the only excellent thing about the movie was any moment Joker was on the screen, the action scenes with Batman are pretty lame and repetitive, he always manages to get in striking distance of anyone with a gun and proceeds to perform karate punches on them. Bruce Wayne is still an interesting character though, and the gadgets + the bat mobile/bike is definitely cool to watch. It's actually quite sad that Ledger had to pass away, there's no reason to do another Batman movie and even if they do it could never be as good as this one.
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« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2008, 12:31:57 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on July 21, 2008, 10:00:28 PM

there's no reason to do another Batman movie

thankfully they'll never listen to you  icon_cool
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« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2008, 12:36:37 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 22, 2008, 12:31:57 AM

Quote from: Ridah on July 21, 2008, 10:00:28 PM

there's no reason to do another Batman movie

thankfully they'll never listen to you  icon_cool
Amen.
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« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2008, 12:42:20 AM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on July 21, 2008, 07:52:58 PM

Christian Bale will be back too, regardless of the new Terminator movies.

he's actually signed for 3 Batman movies.  EW talked with him about a third movie back in March.


oh, and whenever I hear Johnny Depp as the Riddler I get goosebumps.....
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« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2008, 12:46:02 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 22, 2008, 12:42:20 AM

Quote from: PR_GMR on July 21, 2008, 07:52:58 PM

Christian Bale will be back too, regardless of the new Terminator movies.

he's actually signed for 3 Batman movies.  EW talked with him about a third movie back in March.


oh, and whenever I hear Johnny Depp as the Riddler I get goosebumps.....

Johnny Depp as The Riddler would be fantastic follow-up to Ledger's Joker.
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« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2008, 01:27:22 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on July 21, 2008, 10:00:28 PM

Surprisingly, I didn't enjoy the movie much at all during a second viewing last night.


Quote
there's no reason to do another Batman movie and even if they do it could never be as good as this one.

wat
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« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2008, 01:50:02 AM »

Quote from: Mookee on July 22, 2008, 01:27:22 AM

Quote from: Ridah on July 21, 2008, 10:00:28 PM

Surprisingly, I didn't enjoy the movie much at all during a second viewing last night.


Quote
there's no reason to do another Batman movie and even if they do it could never be as good as this one.

twat

FTFY  slywink
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« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2008, 02:01:29 AM »

The only thing about a 3rd Batman movie is that it doesn't allow Christopher Nolan to write/direct anything else in the meantime. I love my new Batman films, but I want to see what else he can pull out of his sleeve. The man is good.
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« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2008, 02:17:16 AM »

Quote from: Malificent on July 22, 2008, 02:01:29 AM

The only thing about a 3rd Batman movie is that it doesn't allow Christopher Nolan to write/direct anything else in the meantime. I love my new Batman films, but I want to see what else he can pull out of his sleeve. The man is good.

He pulled The Prestige off in between the Batman films so yes, he could go knock out a quick indie in the meantime.
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« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2008, 03:44:50 AM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on July 22, 2008, 02:17:16 AM

Quote from: Malificent on July 22, 2008, 02:01:29 AM

The only thing about a 3rd Batman movie is that it doesn't allow Christopher Nolan to write/direct anything else in the meantime. I love my new Batman films, but I want to see what else he can pull out of his sleeve. The man is good.

He pulled The Prestige off in between the Batman films so yes, he could go knock out a quick indie in the meantime.

just remember, Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts.
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« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2008, 06:18:24 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 22, 2008, 12:31:57 AM

Quote from: Ridah on July 21, 2008, 10:00:28 PM

there's no reason to do another Batman movie

thankfully they'll never listen to you  icon_cool

Well, besides making a shit load of money off the brand there's no reason the way I see it. How could you possibly top Joker at this point?
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« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2008, 07:16:35 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on July 22, 2008, 06:18:24 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on July 22, 2008, 12:31:57 AM

Quote from: Ridah on July 21, 2008, 10:00:28 PM

there's no reason to do another Batman movie

thankfully they'll never listen to you  icon_cool

Well, besides making a shit load of money off the brand there's no reason the way I see it. How could you possibly top Joker at this point?

I think you just answered your own question.
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« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2008, 03:22:02 PM »

Ok, Christian, wtf?!

Quote
Los Angeles (E! Online) - Maybe they should have called it The Really Dark Knight.

Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.
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« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2008, 03:25:16 PM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on July 22, 2008, 03:22:02 PM

Ok, Christian, wtf?!

Quote
Los Angeles (E! Online) - Maybe they should have called it The Really Dark Knight.

Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

IS BRUCE WAYNE GOING TO HAVE TO CHOKE A BITCH????
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« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2008, 03:30:10 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 22, 2008, 03:25:16 PM

Quote from: PR_GMR on July 22, 2008, 03:22:02 PM

Ok, Christian, wtf?!

Quote
Los Angeles (E! Online) - Maybe they should have called it The Really Dark Knight.

Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

IS BRUCE WAYNE GOING TO HAVE TO CHOKE A BITCH????

 icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol
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« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2008, 03:36:45 PM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on July 22, 2008, 03:22:02 PM

Ok, Christian, wtf?!

Quote
Los Angeles (E! Online) - Maybe they should have called it The Really Dark Knight.

Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

That's still not as bad as what happened when WALL·E snapped at the premiere in Sydney.

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« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2008, 03:46:58 PM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on July 22, 2008, 03:22:02 PM

Ok, Christian, wtf?!

Quote
Los Angeles (E! Online) - Maybe they should have called it The Really Dark Knight.

Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

They can hunt him.  He can take it. 
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« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2008, 03:52:49 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on July 22, 2008, 06:18:24 AM


Well, besides making a shit load of money off the brand there's no reason the way I see it. How could you possibly top Joker at this point?

Just because you may not be able to top a performance doesn't mean you can't make a quality film.  Nolan has proven he can make an excellent movie without Heath Ledger.  That would be a pretty naive position to take as a film maker, don't you think?
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« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2008, 04:55:47 PM »

Quote
Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

In Bale's defense, his mother looks exactly like The Joker.
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« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2008, 05:04:04 PM »

Quote from: kadnod on July 22, 2008, 03:46:58 PM

Quote from: PR_GMR on July 22, 2008, 03:22:02 PM

Ok, Christian, wtf?!

Quote
Los Angeles (E! Online) - Maybe they should have called it The Really Dark Knight.

Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

They can hunt him.  He can take it. 

That is twelve different kinds of awesome.
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« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2008, 12:21:08 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on July 22, 2008, 04:55:47 PM

Quote
Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

In Bale's defense, his mother looks exactly like The Joker.

and I hear his sister is so ugly she wears a mask like the Scarecrow.
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« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2008, 03:36:00 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 23, 2008, 12:21:08 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on July 22, 2008, 04:55:47 PM

Quote
Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

In Bale's defense, his mother looks exactly like The Joker.

and I hear his sister is so ugly she wears a mask like the Scarecrow.

Apparently it's because he shouted at them, which is a crime of sorts in the UK. I am now convinced that all politicians in the UK who think this is a good law are pussies.
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« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2008, 03:49:58 AM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on July 23, 2008, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on July 23, 2008, 12:21:08 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on July 22, 2008, 04:55:47 PM

Quote
Batman star Christian Bale has been arrested in London after turning himself in to a police station to undergo questioning on allegations that he assaulted his mother and sister.

In Bale's defense, his mother looks exactly like The Joker.

and I hear his sister is so ugly she wears a mask like the Scarecrow.

Apparently it's because he shouted at them, which is a crime of sorts in the UK. I am now convinced that all politicians are pussies.

 ninja

yeah, that's a BS law.
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« Reply #72 on: July 23, 2008, 05:21:24 PM »

Batman on Film noted a brief David Goyer interview (he's helped write and iron out the story for BB and TDK, directed one of the Blade movies, and I believe was up to direct The Flash, before bowing out) at MTV:
http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/07/21/exclusive-david-goyer-says-he-knows-the-theme-for-batman-3/

Just vague talk about themes (I doubt C. Nolan would ever talk to him again if he gave any sort of meaningful details about their thoughts on a third Batman). I'm sure Nolan would like to do something else (as he did with The Prestige) before he gives any thought to a followup.

Well, if Fear is BB's theme, and Escalation is TDK's theme, then my guess on a third would perhaps be Redemption (presumably with a rebuilt Wayne Manor and a revamped bat cave).
====================
* I had one question about some dialogue in TDK I didn't quite understand. When the Joker tips them off about Harvey Dent and Rachel being at the two locations, I thought Gordon asks Batman, "Which one are you going after?" and it sounded like Batman says, "I'm going after Rachel!" ... and as we know, he ends up saving Dent instead. Did I mis-hear the dialogue? (Maybe he says, "You go after Rachel!") Or did the Joker trick them by lying about which person (Dent or Rachel) was at each location?  icon_confused

The Monday show, while it seemed to be at the same screen/theater I attended for the Thursday midnight show, seemd to have its music turned way too high. I had a hard time hearing the dialogue at times. It really bothered me during the very end, because I could barely hear Gordon's "narration" over the final footage (I remember hearing it more clearly at the midnight show perhaps because I was down in the 3rd or4th row in front).
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« Reply #73 on: July 23, 2008, 05:27:09 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on July 23, 2008, 05:21:24 PM

Or did the Joker trick them by lying about which person (Dent or Rachel) was at each location?  icon_confused

This one.
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« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2008, 05:27:39 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on July 23, 2008, 05:21:24 PM

* I had one question about some dialogue in TDK I didn't quite understand. When the Joker tips them off about Harvey Dent and Rachel going to the two locations, I thought Gordon asks Batman, "Which one are you going after?" and it sounded like Batman says, "I'm going after Rachel!" ... and as we know, he ends up saving Dent instead. Did I mis-hear the dialogue? Or did the Joker trick them by lying about which person (Dent or Rachel) was at each location?  icon_confused

I actually understood it as Joker intentionally tricking Batman and Gordon in order to complete the corruption of Harvey Dent.  The Joker needed Rachel to die and to have Batman save Dent.  The entire setup was just as methodical and systematic as all of Joker's previous capers.  Every part was planned and had a purpose.  Dent and Rachel being able to communicate, Rachel's seemingly inevitable demise, The Joker's recognizing that Batman would succeed in saving the person he went after, it all came together in the corruption of Harvey Dent.  It wasn't a mixup by Gordon and Batman.  Up until Batman arrived on the scene he thought he was going after Rachel.  Batman, Dent, and even the audience were all surprised by who was actually in the warehouse when Batman stormed through the door.
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« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2008, 05:35:07 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on July 23, 2008, 05:27:39 PM

The entire setup was just as methodical and systematic as all of Joker's previous capers.  Every part was planned and had a purpose.  Dent and Rachel being able to communicate, Rachel's seemingly inevitable demise, The Joker's recognizing that Batman would succeed in saving the person he went after, it all came together in the corruption of Harvey Dent.

It also fit in pretty well with the theme of the rest of Joker's "social experiments".  Dent was obviously more important to Gotham than Rachel, yet Batman decides to save her for personal reasons.  So, not only does Bats fail to save Rachel (or Harvey, really), he sorta fails at being a hero, too. 

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« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2008, 05:52:23 PM »

Thanks for the explanations, guys. Well, maybe I'm not as bright as the rest of the audience.  icon_lol

I guess what I had reasoned to myself (if I wasn't confusing the dialogue) was that Batman/Bruce Wayne had to choose between saving his true love or the man he felt could save Gotham City and make Batman redundant. And the movie's ending (which I love) makes it clear he's willing to make a supreme sacrifice to try to save the city and protect Dent's reputation/legend. I'm pretty sure my theory was bunk though.  icon_razz

I'm glad I avoided plot spoilers and that the actors themselves didn't give things away. So Gordon's apparent death really hit me in the gut at the midnight show, his return was "whew" and then Rachel's demise hit me in the gut again (though I knew from the vague things I had read, that *someone* in "the Batman family" wasn't surviving the movie).

While it all works well, it just pains me they had to write out Rachel's character now that they had a more interesting actress playing it. I think the funny thing about Maggie Glyenhall is that when I see her in TV interviews she actually comes across as ditzy as Katie Holmes sometimes did as Rachel -- but when she's on screen, she just seems so much more believable as a tough assistant DA.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2008, 06:08:56 PM »

iesb.net had a nice interview with David Goyer on Friday:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5228&Itemid=99
Quote from: David Goyer
And, people come up to me all the time and say, “You know, I don't like these kinds of movies but I like Batman Begins.” And some people have said that about Dark Knight and frankly, in a sense these are the clients we are making the film for. I love it when people who aren't genre fans or comic book fans say they really enjoyed the movie.
I can't always convince people of that kind of thing. Most of my co-workers roll their eyes that I saw TDK twice, and I mentioned my sister-in-law walked out on Iron Man (and on my perplexed brother, niece, and nephew) during the Afghanistan sequences (which is a shame, I think she would've enjoyed the movie).

Goyer's apparently in post-production as director on a horror movie called The Unborn. The cast includes Gary Oldman.
http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/07/22/david-goyer-hopes-for-unborn-sequel/
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 06:14:34 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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EngineNo9
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« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2008, 02:04:33 AM »

Meh, I never really bought into Gordon dying.  I mean, he's Commisioner fucking Gorder afterall. 
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Blackjack
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« Reply #79 on: July 24, 2008, 03:00:35 PM »

Maybe Gordon really did die, and the post-death Gordon is really a clone insta-created from his DNA in a Gotham lab run by Lucius Fox.  saywhat

You laugh. I guarantee that's the plot of an upcoming Batman comic issue...  icon_razz
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