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Author Topic: Cop tells airman to get up, airman gets up & is shot  (Read 3986 times)
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Ascendent
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« on: February 02, 2006, 06:33:29 PM »

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CHINO – A deputy appears in a home video to order a man to his feet, then shoot him as he tries to stand. The man, an Air Force security officer just back from Iraq, was hospitalized Tuesday with wounds to his chest, ribs and leg, relatives said.

The FBI was investigating possible civil rights violations in the shooting, said Thom Mrozek, spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office in Los Angeles. The San Bernardino County district attorney's office also assigned investigators to the case, a Sheriff's Department spokeswoman said.

Senior Airman Elio Carrion, 21, was a passenger in a Corvette that led a deputy on a short, 100 mph chase, authorities said. Carrion, airlifted to Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton, was in good condition, hospital officials said.


Amateur photographer Jose Luis Valdez told The Associated Press that he shot the video after the car crashed into a wall in front of his home Sunday night. KTLA-TV aired the videotape early Tuesday, then distributed it later in the day.

In the 40-second video, Carrion appears to be on the ground telling the deputy he was in the military and was unarmed.

After the shooting, Carrion asks the deputy, “Why did you shoot me if you told me to stand up?” Valdez said in a telephone interview conducted in Spanish. That exchange cannot be heard on the video.

The FBI was asked to do a forensic analysis of the tape, sheriff's department spokeswoman Cindy Beavers said, adding the audio is unclear at times and it's difficult to determine who was speaking.

“I think it's critical this videotape is reviewed closely. ... We want to know the exact dialogue among the parties,” Beavers said. “It would be unfair for us to make any kind of judgment now without knowing the facts.”

Law enforcement agencies generally allow officers to use deadly force when they believe it's necessary to prevent death or serious injury to themselves or others, said Tom Griffith, a professor at the University of Southern California Law School who specializes in criminal law. Actions such as fleeing from police are not by themselves justification for using deadly force, said Griffith, who had not seen the videotape.

“One thing we know for sure: a person's wrongful actions ... normally don't justify the use of deadly force,” he said.

The deputy, whose name has not been released, was placed on paid administrative leave, which is routine procedure after officer-involved shootings.

A woman who answered the telephone at the Carrion family home in Montclair said the airman's parents were headed to the hospital and nobody at the residence wanted to talk. Nobody answered the door later in the day.

The incident began when the deputy saw the Corvette speeding at 100 mph through a residential neighborhood, Beavers said. Following a chase that she said lasted about five minutes, the car skidded and slammed into a block wall in a middle-class neighborhood of large, single-story homes with tile roofs.

The dark and grainy videotape shows Carrion on the ground next to his car, talking to a silhouetted officer who is pointing a gun at him. Carrion is supporting himself on one arm and his face is brightly lit by the officer's flashlight.

There is some hard-to-hear conversation back and forth, but Carrion appears to be trying to reassure the officer, telling him he is unarmed and in the military. He repeatedly says, “I'm on your side” and adds “we mean you no harm.”

At one point, a voice is heard saying several times, “Get up.”

Carrion says, “I'm gonna get up.” As he rises, the deputy fires at least four shots from close range, and Carrion collapses, crying out in pain.

“Shots fired! Shots fired!” someone shouts.

Witness Joanne Scholten said she saw the deputy yelling obscenities at the airman and ordering him to get out of the car. Shots rang out after he told the man to get up, she said.

“It seemed he lost his cool,” Scholten said of the deputy. “We were confused about why (he) did that.”

No charges have been filed against Carrion. Luis Fernando Escobedo, 21, identified by authorities as the driver of the Corvette, was arrested for investigation of felony evading and was being held at the West Valley Detention Center in Rancho Cucamonga, Beavers said.

Carrion's 19-year-old wife, Mariela, told reporters her husband came out of surgery Monday and said: “They shot me for no reason.”

She said Carrion and Escobedo were at a party at the home of Carrion's parents when they left to go to the store. Carrion was supposed to have returned Wednesday to his unit, the 2nd Security Forces Squadron, at Barksdale Air Force Base in Shreveport, La.
Air Force spokesman Lt. Frank Hartnett said Carrion worked as a security officer at the base. Carrion joined the Air Force in January 2003 and recently returned from a six-month tour in Iraq, Hartnett said.


Also a video of the incident

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8027854162700568157&q=deputy+shoots

Note the title of the video as well...it's pretty graphic shows him being shot

Ascendent

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Big Jake
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2006, 06:55:34 PM »

OK, I hate power-hungry cops as much as anyone, but this is priceless:
Quote
“They shot me for no reason.”


I exited a vehicle which was used in a crime (the high speed chase), traveling 100+ in a neighborhood at night.  No reason at all for the cop to be jacked up.  

Before anyone gets me wrong, Im not saying the cop did the right thing, but to pretend your mother theresa is just bullshit.  You put yourself in these situations, accidents can happen, particularly from an armed man who may be fearing for his own life.
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dbt1949
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2006, 07:29:26 PM »

All these police shootings here recently are not playing well for the police. Perhaps new screening tests and training are in order.
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2006, 07:30:02 PM »

Looks like the cop should be charged with attempted murder. He tells the guy to get up twice...the guy says ok im gonna get up..starts to get up..and the cop shoots him 3 times. I think the cop was pissed cause the guy had said he'd served more time than him and stuff.

dumb cop.
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2006, 07:30:32 PM »

Quote from: "dbt1949"
All these police shootings here recently are not playing well for the police. Perhaps new screening tests and training are in order.


IQ test comes to mind.
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 07:51:58 PM »

This is what happens when you allow people to believe they can do whatever the hell they want, and that the law doesnt apply to them.

I have a female friend who was beat up by a cop, in public, while she was handcuffed.  Her license was suspended for parking tickets, and she was never notified about it.  A female officer arrived and told her she should go to a hospital; the idiot cop said "she was faking".  And the idiot police chief tried to get her to sign a statement that nothing wrong happened.

Anyway, it's because of things like that I'm not terribly concerned about the trend of putting cameras everywhere.  As long as citizens can subpeona the recordings (and said recordings cannot be erased), it can protect citizens as much as it will help catch criminals.
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2006, 07:52:07 PM »

That's crazy.  Of course with all the bleeps of censorship, it's next to impossible to figure out what the hell is going on in the conversation.
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2006, 07:58:03 PM »

I can guess what the guy was saying after he got shot.
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2006, 08:11:18 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
OK, I hate power-hungry cops as much as anyone, but this is priceless:
Quote
“They shot me for no reason.”


I exited a vehicle which was used in a crime (the high speed chase), traveling 100+ in a neighborhood at night.  No reason at all for the cop to be jacked up.  

Before anyone gets me wrong, Im not saying the cop did the right thing, but to pretend your mother theresa is just bullshit.  You put yourself in these situations, accidents can happen, particularly from an armed man who may be fearing for his own life.


I dunno.  If I'm in a car where my buddy decides to be an asshole, I pretty much have no choice but to hold the fuck on and pray I don't get shot by some stupid fuck cop or killed by my moron friend.

If you cannot control your adrenaline to act rationally in this situation, that guy shouldn't be a cop.  Period.

gellar
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 08:42:02 PM »

While some reports I've seen make it seem like someone told him to get up and he was complying, other reports say it's not quite clear who is saying what.  Luckily the guy survived so we'll at least get his story.  

I thought we had gotten to the point where we had pretty good non-lethal weapons?  It doesn't seem like the police ever use them.  I remember an incident in Seattle a few years ago where some whacko was downtown with a samurai sword and it took the police hours to figure out what to do with him.  Why they didn't douse him with pepper spray or shoot him with a taser I'll never know.
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 10:16:13 PM »

Almost completely off topic:

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Following a chase that she said lasted about five minutes, the car skidded and slammed into a block wall in a middle-class neighborhood of large, single-story homes with tile roofs.


Can anyone tell me why there are more words in the sentence after "slammed into a block wall"? I don't understand what that was put in there for.  :?
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 10:24:55 PM »

I really couldn't make out what the conversations were so i'll only comment as to what is speculated at the moment.

If he was told by the officer to get up and he complies only to be shot multiples times, that cop deserves to stand trial.

Sorry but i don't agree to shooting someone who was complying with orders from an officer, regardless of what he was stopped for.  Total abuse of power and it ticks me off to watch that video.

What kind of society are we turning into where officers are judge and jury?  I'm in no way excusing the fella because it's obvious he put himself in a dangerous situation.  But c'mon you don't shoot someone like that.
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 10:50:39 PM »

That's going to be one rich Airman if he finds the right lawyer.
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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 11:15:37 PM »

It's impossible for me to determine what was going on from that video, other than the obvious.

If Carrion was complying with the officer's request, and then was shot, that officer needs to stand trial for attempted first degree murder and whatever else can be thrown at him.

Driving 100 miles an hour through a residential area is fucking moronic. Running from the police moreso.  Carrion wasn't the driver, so I don't know what they can nail him for other than Failure to Die When Shot by Police.
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2006, 12:04:08 AM »

A big clue to me about who is at fault is the fact that cop didn't just cover them and wait for backup, maybe from behind his car door.  One guy outside the car, one guy inside the car and that cop thought he could cover and subdue both by himself?  That can't be department policy I would think.
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2006, 12:13:19 AM »

Quote from: "gellar"
Quote from: "Big Jake"
OK, I hate power-hungry cops as much as anyone, but this is priceless:
Quote
“They shot me for no reason.”


I exited a vehicle which was used in a crime (the high speed chase), traveling 100+ in a neighborhood at night.  No reason at all for the cop to be jacked up.  

Before anyone gets me wrong, Im not saying the cop did the right thing, but to pretend your mother theresa is just bullshit.  You put yourself in these situations, accidents can happen, particularly from an armed man who may be fearing for his own life.


I dunno.  If I'm in a car where my buddy decides to be an asshole, I pretty much have no choice but to hold the fuck on and pray I don't get shot by some stupid fuck cop or killed by my moron friend.

If you cannot control your adrenaline to act rationally in this situation, that guy shouldn't be a cop.  Period.

gellar


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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2006, 12:21:31 AM »

Quote from: "Xmann"
What kind of society are we turning into where officers are judge and jury?


If our leaders don't have respect for the law, eventually nobody else will either.
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2006, 02:02:12 AM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
Quote from: "Xmann"
What kind of society are we turning into where officers are judge and jury?


If our leaders don't have respect for the law, eventually nobody else will either.




Heh, I agree with you 100%.
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2006, 02:26:48 AM »

The audio is hard to understand, but I do think that I heard the cop say "okay, get up, get up", and not something like, "DON'T get up, DON'T get up." And that's not sarcasm, because I was curious to see - or hear, I guess - if it was a miscommunication between the two.

I think that the title of the video, "Pig shoots American hero attempting to comply with orders," is ridiculous though.
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« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2006, 02:38:38 AM »

Wow, if that was in Canada the cop probably would have been fired on the spot and but in prision.

I wish we had U.S. police force laws. Its so dumb in Canada the cops can barley defend themselves and they get in trouble.
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2006, 02:24:51 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
The audio is hard to understand, but I do think that I heard the cop say "okay, get up, get up", and not something like, "DON'T get up, DON'T get up." And that's not sarcasm, because I was curious to see - or hear, I guess - if it was a miscommunication between the two.

I think that the title of the video, "Pig shoots American hero attempting to comply with orders," is ridiculous though.


I will agree that the audio is bad, but I do think it's possible the cop said "don't" . I played the audio over and over and it almost sounds like an audio edit. like someone looped "get up". The way it is being said doesn't sound natural to me. It also kinda sounds like the g in get up is cut off at the beginning which would happen if someone did try to edit out don't. The stupid censor sounds don't help matters.

Also, I can't see it being normal for any officer in that position asking a suspect at gunpoint to get up.

Also, (and this alone doesn't justify a shooting), the airman's tone was beligerent and aggressive. As a security officer "with more time then the cop" he should have known to not be aggressive and to just quietly comply with the officer (although it does appear that he tells his friend to be quiet).
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2006, 02:40:19 PM »

The guy taking the video said that the cop told the person on the ground to "Get up" and then shot him.

They guy even says "ok I am getting up" before he starts to stand.  

My opinion the cop told him to get up so he could shoot him.  If he had onboard video with no sound in the car it would look like he was justified.  What he didnt think about is that darn near every person owns a video camera and someone else was running tape.
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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2006, 04:42:34 PM »

Quote from: "drifter"
The guy taking the video said that the cop told the person on the ground to "Get up" and then shot him.

They guy even says "ok I am getting up" before he starts to stand.  

My opinion the cop told him to get up so he could shoot him.  If he had onboard video with no sound in the car it would look like he was justified.  What he didnt think about is that darn near every person owns a video camera and someone else was running tape.


I agree with drifter. As a guy with a family with lots of police officers (well, they are all retired now!), I find this absolutely, completely, utterly apalling.
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2006, 02:16:58 AM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
Quote from: "Xmann"
What kind of society are we turning into where officers are judge and jury?


If our leaders don't have respect for the law, eventually nobody else will either.


What total BS.  I mean, come the f&*k on.  What, did this guy start on the force during the Clinton administration?

The difference between my statement and yours is I meant for mine to be absurd.

 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

Most. unnecessary. statement. ever.

I can't tell about the video.  It sounds like the cop said, "get up, get up".  I don't buy that he would tell him to get up in order to shoot him and was only caught by the camera, as his friend was in the car listening to the whole thing as well.  If he didn't shoot both of them, which he didn't do, what would be the point?  Most if not all dash cams have sound, in any event.  You don't have to be standing up to be a threat.  And if it was for the chase, why not get the driver out and shoot him?

I think that the cop thought the suspect was going for something as he stood up and shot him.  The guy had already identified himself as military, which could have in the officer's mind increased the chance of the suspect being armed.  At this point, the officer doesn't know what if anything the suspect on the ground is saying is true,  He has already participated in a high-speed chase through a residential area, he is claiming to have "more time served" than the officer and he is speaking very aggressively to the officer.   It is very hard to tell from the video.  I can't see what the suspect does with his hands.

Things won't go very well for the officer no matter what, I imagine.  Public sentiment is solidified as "Pig shoots american hero" no matter what the actual events turn out to be.  I wonder if they had shown the guys driving 100 mph+ through the neighborhood before their wreck if it would still be so one sided.

Rhino
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2006, 03:01:31 AM »

If I were the Airman, no matter how this turns out with the cop, I am so kicking the mother-fucking shit out of my "buddy".
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2006, 03:17:53 AM »

Quote from: "Rhinohelix"
What total BS.  I mean, come the f&*k on.  What, did this guy start on the force during the Clinton administration?

The difference between my statement and yours is I meant for mine to be absurd.

 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

Most. unnecessary. statement. ever.


So, in your view, a disrepect for the law wouldn't have a 'trickle-down effect'?
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2006, 03:19:42 AM »

There are two kinds of criminals: Those with badges and those without.  Don't get me wrong, not all cops are bad apples, but since I spent three years working closely with airport police on a daily basis, my opinion of them hit the floor.  I realize airport police are different from those on the beat, but I was disgusted nearly daily by their lack of integrity, laziness, lies, and ingorance.   Maybe in their position I'd be the same way, and God knows you could never pay me enough to be one, and to those few of you who truly are good cops, I respect you.

In any case, will be interesting to see what happens.  I withhold judgement on this particular case until all the facts are known.
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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2006, 04:06:33 AM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
So, in your view, a disrepect for the law wouldn't have a 'trickle-down effect'?


You comparing any imagined "disrespect for the law" on the part of the President to what is on first blush a terrible injustice is preposterous and only serves to illustrate your outrageous bias.

Rhino
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2006, 04:14:23 AM »

Quote from: "Rhinohelix"


[...]

 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

Most. unnecessary. statement. ever.

[...]

I'm left wondering who you voted for in 2000 and 2004.  Perhaps you should be a little clearer.
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2006, 04:30:21 AM »

Really?  My apologizes for not being more clear. I voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004.  I thought that there was no need to drag national politics into this situation.

Irregardless of my voting pattern, to make the leap between Bush and this case is just as preposterous as any of the other Bush=Hitler pap.  I mean, if you feel Bush is the source of all evil that is your right, but keep that crazy to yourself.  I don't want to track that in on my shoes.

It really does say more about you than the incident when you feel compelling to say something this outlandish.

Rhino
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« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2006, 04:39:06 AM »

Quote from: "Rhinohelix"
I voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004.
Naw, it can't be!

Pardon me while I bask in the schadenfreude resulting from the bitter irony of your choice of the phrase, "serves to illustrate your outrageous bias."
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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2006, 04:39:41 AM »

SEE ALSO: Your signature.
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« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2006, 04:49:21 AM »

Except that I am not that one claiming the President's alleged "disregard for the law" influenced a cop to shoot an unarmed man.

But yes, I voted for Pres. Bush, so it follows naturally that I just as biased as unbreakable.



Have fun storming the castle!

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« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2006, 04:52:20 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Rhinohelix"
I voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004.
Naw, it can't be!

Pardon me while I bask in the schadenfreude resulting from the bitter irony of your choice of the phrase, "serves to illustrate your outrageous bias."


Well, in order for it to be schadenfreude, I would have to be experiencing some discomfort from your so-called "bitter irony".

Wow, that was sad and pathetic.  Surely you can do better?

Rhino
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« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2006, 04:56:45 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
SEE ALSO: Your signature.


In reference to my sig, the devil in this case is unrestrained hatred of the President.  The left has invested so much in the attack on Bush that it has poisoned the spirit of your party.  You won't be able to win until you can move past it.  Good luck with that.

How this has to do with the shooting in reality I will never guess.  My apologizes for my part in the derailing.

Rhino
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« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2006, 06:12:35 AM »

Last time I checked, "my" party didn't have people getting indicted for corruption, with more on the way.

Partisan politics begins and ends with Bush and his supporters.  There are Bushites, and Americans.  But hey, if you dance with the devil...
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« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2006, 10:21:35 AM »

You might want to recheck that, given the pending indictment of William Jefferson, D-Louisanna for demanding bribes to help set up African telecom deals.  This is the idiot who comandeered a heavy NG truck during Katrina to go to his house in New Orleans in an attempt to destroy eivdence.  If you think Jack Abrhamoff just directed money to Republicans, you have a shock awaiting you.

Quote from: "unbreakable"
Partisan politics begins and ends with Bush and his supporters.


And on that note, we have the signal that no rational discourse is possible.

That would be funny if it wasn't genuinely sad.  The party of Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry isn't partisan? :roll:

Well, if keeping the blinders on makes you feel better, hey, who am I to argue?  Life as a mushroom must be grand!  

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« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2006, 11:02:00 AM »

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« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2006, 02:44:41 PM »

ok who has the thread jack emoticon?

Both political parties are just as screwed up as the other, and they both do the same corrupt bullshit.

All I know is dont accept a ride from a Kennedy, accept but do not smoke a cigar that former Pres. Clinton offers you, do not say on the phone that you are a terrorist when making an overseas phone call.
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unbreakable
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« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2006, 10:20:21 AM »

Quote from: "Rhinohelix"
You might want to recheck that, given the pending indictment of William Jefferson, D-Louisanna for demanding bribes to help set up African telecom deals.  This is the idiot who comandeered a heavy NG truck during Katrina to go to his house in New Orleans in an attempt to destroy eivdence.  If you think Jack Abrhamoff just directed money to Republicans, you have a shock awaiting you.


Once again, the battlecry of "they do it too".

Unlike Republicans, the Democrat voters don't defend criminals in their party.  You do the crime, you do the time.

Republifundamentalists are an interesting breed.  Their criminal leadershit can do no wrong, because any accounting for the crime is either a 'political attack' or a 'they do it too'.

How is that Plame investigation going?  Interesting how the current standards for working in a presidential administration are that you, well, arent currently in prison for anything.  Because many of the people in this administration have already been jailed in the past, or should have.  Otto Reich and John Negroponte actually LED death squads in Honduras.  The criminals who brought us Iran-Contra are all back in power.  Treason is "business as usual".

An entire voter base, filled with those who fail to learn from history.
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