http://gamingtrend.com
December 18, 2014, 09:06:42 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Constantine  (Read 3984 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« on: February 19, 2005, 03:12:42 AM »

Saw it tonight.

It was so-so.

Liked the basic premise of the movie (i.e. the premise of the comic book which I've never read).

But they never took any risks with the story at all - which resulted in just another typical hero movie - incredibly predictable, everything foreshadowed multiple times, best special effects shown in the commercials, and more than a couple big plotholes.

So overall it was a C to C+ movie. Not something I would go see again, but might watch if it was just on TV or something.  

Recommend skipping until it's out on video.
Logged
Rhinohelix
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 238


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 05:18:39 PM »

I just posted in the other Constantine thread, so I will add my thoughts here, in Cliff's notes form.

  I really liked it.  I thought that world was cool, the effects was great, and the story, while pedestrian, turned out to be OK.  The ending was awesome.  Pacing was slow in some parts but I think that was deliberate in order to add the suspense, the "Ring" effect.  

Keanu did a a great job, although it would have been an interesting part to have seen someone else's interpretation of.  Rachel Weisz= hotness for me.  Shia Lebouf and his character were underutilized but given that the movie was already fairly long, I don't know how much they could have added.  I think Frank Lawerence will be a much better director than the other Music Video directors to make the jump to features.

I think hope this makes enough money for a sequel.  I can think of a thousand ways to go, without ever seeing the comic, that would be simply awesome.  I think this movie falls in line with "Blade" as a solid 2nd tier movie with the potential for better.  Hopefully it will deliver on its promise better than the "Blade" franchise.

Overall I would say a B+.

Rhino
Logged

Dance with the Devil and the Devil doesn't change.  The Devil changes you.
whiteboyskim
Senior Staff Writer
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 7850


Hard partier


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2005, 08:16:33 PM »

I'm with Rhino on this and also will give it a B+. I loved the hell out of this flick, despite the movie ending one scene after it should have. Having said that, the final sight gag was awesome. biggrin

One thing I really noticed about Constantine was the sense of humor. The billboard, the casual way Constantine insults someone, the way he has no problem punching the crap out of a possessed girl. It was all cracking me up. I also really got into the world and thought it was one of the more immersive films I've seen in a while. Maybe it was because I saw The Aviator yesterday which made me rethink whether I should see another Scorsese movie ever again, but I went into Constantine with fairly low expectations.

Keanu isn't the most versatile of actors, but he does give good brood and as such he played Constantine well. Tilda Swinton was terrific as Gabriel and Rachel Weisz was, for me, just there. Never thought of her as a significant presence in movies, so whenever I see her I think it's just another actor delivering lines.

Overall, Constantine gets a solid B+ from me and I really want to see it again.
Logged

Behold the glory of my new blog!
Filmmaking is vision plus faith plus balls, all 3 of which Hollywood knows little about.
RightBastard
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 528


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2005, 08:37:46 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
 One thing I really noticed about Constantine was the sense of humor. The billboard, the casual way Constantine insults someone, the way he has no problem punching the crap out of a possessed girl. It was all cracking me up. I also really got into the world and thought it was one of the more immersive films I've seen in a while.


Hmm, this gives me hope (that the movie isn't the schlocky action flick that I thought it would degenerate into) and at the same time, makes me groan because it was the sense of caustic humor and bastardy behavior that made John Constantine such a compelling character.  I really think that had they tried to do justice to the source material, they would have done a bang-up job and they could have made a badass movie.  Probably not as successful in $$$ terms as this version but it's sad that Hollywood would rather make a bad movie that rakes in the $$$ then a solid movie that delivers on all fronts and pulls in decent amounts of $$$.

That said, after what you guys said, I think I might swallow whatever ill will I had towards this flick and make the trip out to the theatre.  Bargain matinee show, of course.
Logged

I am amendable to criticism but only within the sphere of what I am trying to do.
Flannery O'Connor
ravenvii
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2031



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2005, 08:41:37 PM »

I wish they would make an action movie like Constantine, with a character like Thomas Covenant. That would be awesome.
Logged
Calvin
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13895

President of G.R.O.S.S.


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2005, 08:47:09 PM »

Its good. I enjoyed it quite a bit. Kathode liked it too.

My favorite "comic book" movie in a long time.

Yes, more than Spiderman. I dont like the Spiderman movies. I find them...bad.

Thank you, drive through.
Logged
Graham
Managing Editor
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 4017


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2005, 05:43:16 AM »

I saw the movie and I enjoyed it.  I haven't read the comic book, but I read a little bit of the reviews.  Sure, there are other better movies out there, but it was a good afternoon matinee movie to enjoy with some friends.  I don't necessarily agree with all of the theology in there, but it is interesting to take a look at it from that point.  I also don't completely understand Gabriel's role.  It still was a good story and interesting.
Logged

Partial Owner of the World Champion Green Bay Packers
mb737
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 232


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2005, 05:45:26 AM »

I enjoyed it for what it was supposed to be.  I give it a B.  There was something missing, but I couldn't tell you what.
Logged
Calvin
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13895

President of G.R.O.S.S.


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2005, 05:54:04 AM »

If anyone here is a comic book afficianado (I mean of Constantine), I would appreciate some detailed backstory as to what the official story on this character is. I think the movie has good potential for a sequel but Im curious what the original Constantine was supposedly like.
Logged
mb737
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 232


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2005, 06:06:19 AM »

All I know of Contstanine is that it's Completely British.  All about the London nightlife and all that.  Although my source didn't know what "The Knowledge" was when I asked him about London cabbies so I'm skeptical.
Logged
RightBastard
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 528


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2005, 07:56:37 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
If anyone here is a comic book afficianado (I mean of Constantine), I would appreciate some detailed backstory as to what the official story on this character is. I think the movie has good potential for a sequel but Im curious what the original Constantine was supposedly like.


He's a complete and utter bastard who's completely and utterly likable.  It's hard to explain but as a big fan of the comic series, I do know that the main crux of the Hellblazer series has always been more about interpersonal relationships and character development then about action.  There's some sick and twisted stuff that happens involving magic and demons and angels and whatnot but it's the human (and non-human) drama stuff that's always been the most compelling part of Constantine.

Which is why it's such a shame to see them cast Keanu and turn it into a supernatural Matrix.   Constantine wielding a gun (albeit a magical one) just doesn't make sense.  He's not an action hero in the least.  He's actually a bit of a coward.

Again, hard to explain but let's just put it this way:  as a big fan of the character, I was not happy when I saw the trailer.

Also, consider that some of the most talented writers in the comic book industry have written Hellblazer:  Alan Moore helped create him, Jamie Delano, Neil Gaiman, Garth Ennis, Brian Azzurello and Warren Ellis have all penned Hellblazer scripts.  Definitely give it a read if you can.
Logged

I am amendable to criticism but only within the sphere of what I am trying to do.
Flannery O'Connor
Pharaoh
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 600



View Profile
..
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2005, 05:24:09 PM »

I loved the movie overall. Great look, solid pacing, and its one of those movies where you can see it start to become cheesy, it throws you a "Okay, good movie again" moment. The ending was AWESOME. Its Tainted Love and Blaze of Glory put together, but it was a solid film and I cant wait for a sequel. Thanks Keenu. You can't act, but you always pick solid projects that entertain me for years. I still owe you for Bill and Ted.
Logged
gameoverman
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1422


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2005, 12:04:41 AM »

Saw this yesterday.

I liked it alot. I really liked the story, it seemed alot more elaborate than this kind of movie usually gets. There was more than Good Guys vs Bad Guys to this, there were various parties with different agendas, which I thought made for a very interesting movie.

I liked that didn't cheese out on showing Heaven and Hell, and I liked their versions of what those places are like.

I found the Constantine character to be either well played or well written, since I actually was rooting for him.

The humor was great in that I had no idea when it would pop up. I found myself being surprised by it every time, which made it all the funnier and more enjoyable than if I could see a cheesy catchphrase coming a mile away, like with most movies.

**spoilers**

Downsides: the sidekick. I personally feel that if you're gonna throw in a sidekick, that sidekick better have something worthwhile to contribute.  If it's going to turn out to be a throwaway character, strip that character down to the bare minimum of scenes and lines, and spend that time on better things.

The female lead. I like Rachel Weisz but in this movie she was too subdued, I think she should have been a little crazier, a little bit of a nutjob. Maybe a female version of Mel Gibson's character in the first Lethal Weapon movie.

Which brings me to why I wouldn't recommend this movie to alot of people- the entire tone of the movie is lowkey in the extreme. Considering the story, and what's at stake, there is little to no tension generated at all. The movie unfolds at a leisurely pace, so that the action setpieces almost feel like they belong in another movie. This is the anti-24 when it comes to high tension drama.
Logged
Turtle
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 9485



View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2005, 08:20:11 AM »

Any fans of the comics care to get me started on a few of the graphic novels?

I read a lot of graphic novels, since I plan to become an illustrator myself.

The Hellblazer anti-hero story seems pretty interesting, but for such an established comic I'm not sure where to start.
Logged
JayG
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 324


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2005, 10:00:41 PM »

Garth Ennis's Dangerous Habits is a great place to start, as it has a similar story to the film. The pay off is a lot better.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1563891506/qid=1109023047/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-2782872-6986247

I'd try to collect the complete Ennis trades, as they form a complete story with a great ending. When you have finished Garth's stuff, the Brian Azzarello stuff is also pretty good, starting with hard time.
Logged
whiteboyskim
Senior Staff Writer
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 7850


Hard partier


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2005, 08:44:06 PM »

I thought about it for a bit and the best shot in the movie is right as Constantine is being brought to his feet and the gesture he shoots Lou. biggrin That ruled.
Logged

Behold the glory of my new blog!
Filmmaking is vision plus faith plus balls, all 3 of which Hollywood knows little about.
RightBastard
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 528


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2005, 10:20:30 PM »

Quote from: "JayG"
Garth Ennis's Dangerous Habits is a great place to start, as it has a similar story to the film. The pay off is a lot better.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1563891506/qid=1109023047/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-2782872-6986247

I'd try to collect the complete Ennis trades, as they form a complete story with a great ending. When you have finished Garth's stuff, the Brian Azzarello stuff is also pretty good, starting with hard time.


You read my mind, JayG.  Ennis and Dillon (who came on after the Dangerous Habits trade) did a fantastic run on Hellblazer and it's probably  my favorite.  Azzarello and Risso do a great run as well.  Big thumbs up to them both.  I'd recommend skipping Warren Ellis' single trade as it wasn't particularly great.
Logged

I am amendable to criticism but only within the sphere of what I am trying to do.
Flannery O'Connor
Dafones
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2150


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2005, 05:34:19 PM »

Rented the DVD yesterday, and quite enjoyed the flick. My only real complaint is actually a weird technical one, as the audio seemed to drop down suddenly every ten or fifteen minutes. I'd have to raise the volume to hear the movie, but then the movie's volume would slowly ramp back up so I'd have to drop the volume back down. And repeat.

Anyway, I dug the movie. I hardly found it Matrix-y. Enjoyed the world Constantine lived in, the little bits of knowledge that the movie didn't try to explain (anti-exposition almost) but that Constantine knew, and knew to use.
Logged

Now Playing: GTA - San Andreas [PS2]
Yoshi's Island DS [DS]
whiteboyskim
Senior Staff Writer
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 7850


Hard partier


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2005, 05:52:22 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
Rented the DVD yesterday, and quite enjoyed the flick. My only real complaint is actually a weird technical one, as the audio seemed to drop down suddenly every ten or fifteen minutes. I'd have to raise the volume to hear the movie, but then the movie's volume would slowly ramp back up so I'd have to drop the volume back down. And repeat.


Thank God it wasn't just me. I rented it a little while back to show My Fair Lady and had my volume cranked and still couldn't hear it worth a damn.
Logged

Behold the glory of my new blog!
Filmmaking is vision plus faith plus balls, all 3 of which Hollywood knows little about.
SuperHiro
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1199

Pants on Fire


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2005, 06:18:39 PM »

I thought the movie was great until Constantine made some sort of uber-Holy-Shotgun.  That whole sequence was mighty stupid.
Logged

Just Hiro will do.
Calvin
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13895

President of G.R.O.S.S.


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2005, 06:21:41 PM »

Quote from: "SuperHiro"
I thought the movie was great until Constantine made some sort of uber-Holy-Shotgun.  That whole sequence was mighty stupid.


True, but it made up for it with a totally kick-ass last 15 minutes or so. The ending was pretty freaking awesome now that I think about it.
Logged
Knightshade Dragon
Administrator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 21083



View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2005, 06:45:01 PM »

Its all about the wings.  Those were some fantastic effects. biggrin
Logged

Ron Burke
EiC, Director of Gaming Trend
Gamertag:
Gaming Trend
PS3 Tag: GamingTrend
Szgany
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 153


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2005, 06:56:35 PM »

I saw it over the weekend and enjoyed it, and this is coming from a huge Hellblazer fan. For those that don't know, and I am sure everyone in this thread does, Hellblazer is the comic that the movie is based on, John Constantine being its protagonist.  

Dangerous Habits is my favorite comic storyline of all time, and I was glad to see they brought elements of it into the movie. While I believe that storyline would have made for a much better movie, it really wouldn't have been as easily accessable for a general audience.
Logged
Gwar21
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 210


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2005, 09:25:52 PM »

I rented it last weekend and thought it was pretty mediocre.  It had its moments, but I felt like it wasn't tied together as neatly as it should've been, and I thought the ending was anti-climactic and stretched on forever.  It wasn't horrible, by any means, but I'd give it a solid C+.  I also rented Assault on Precinct 13 and the Bourne Supremacy that weekend, and I thought both of them were better.
Logged
Knightshade Dragon
Administrator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 21083



View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2005, 09:39:44 PM »

I thought Gabriel was well played.  Slightly nuts. smile  I believe that is the same girl is the queen in Chronicles of Narnia?
Logged

Ron Burke
EiC, Director of Gaming Trend
Gamertag:
Gaming Trend
PS3 Tag: GamingTrend
RightBastard
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 528


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2005, 09:44:19 PM »

Ugh.  I had the misfortune of renting this one recently as well at my local Blockbuster when I was desparate for a movie to watch and Netflix was being its usual slow self.  Before I devolve into a fanboy-fueled rage, I'll just quote a Ren and Stimpy character and say:  No sir, I don't like it.

Terrible movie.
Logged

I am amendable to criticism but only within the sphere of what I am trying to do.
Flannery O'Connor
Dafones
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2150


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2005, 10:28:53 PM »

Well see, you're wrong, and we're right.
Logged

Now Playing: GTA - San Andreas [PS2]
Yoshi's Island DS [DS]
lex
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 402


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2005, 11:28:31 PM »

saw this a few weeks ago, and it was certainly enjoyable.  not having read the comics it was a little bit harder to follow some of the plot points.  

But I thought the ending sequence was very good.  and it was refreshing that they didn't take the good guy wins and gets everything route with the ending.

a good actiony flick if you don't care bout what the story's about
Logged
The General
BANNED
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 243


View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2005, 05:15:33 PM »

Yall know its a game out too and i also heard this movie didnt do to well.
Logged

Why are you trying to make fun of me?
You think it's funny?
What the ____ you think you're doing to me?
You take your turn lashing out at me.
I want you crying with your dirty ass in front of me - K.O.R.N.

* The World Aint Knowing "
Baron Of Hell
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2005, 06:58:12 PM »

The last bit made up for the movie. One of the best satan performances to date though I can not recall all that many.
Logged

GoneGold refugee, needs food and place to stay
Turtle
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 9485



View Profile WWW
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2005, 09:35:30 PM »

Actually, I still think one of the best Satan performances was in the short lived show, "Brimstone."  It starred the guy who is currently playing Lionel Luthor in Smallville as the devil.
Logged
stiffler
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4071


View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2005, 10:49:32 PM »

As far as Satan's go, I liked Gabriel Byrne in End of Days.
Logged

Xbox Live Gamertag: cstiffler
Calvin
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13895

President of G.R.O.S.S.


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2005, 01:41:32 AM »

He was good stiffler, but how can you not like the russian cosmonaut from Armageddon in what really was a fantastic turn as the devil in Constantine? And the fact that he wore all white? How simple yet absolutely fitting.
Logged
disarm
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4191


my moral standing is lying down...


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2005, 03:41:52 AM »

it's hard to find a much better Satan than Al Pacino in The Devil's Advocate...which strangely enough also starred Keanu Reeves Cool
Logged

*Gamertag - disarm78*
Now Playing: Grand Theft Auto V
stiffler
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4071


View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2005, 09:37:08 PM »

Quote from: "Rage"
He was good stiffler, but how can you not like the russian cosmonaut from Armageddon in what really was a fantastic turn as the devil in Constantine? And the fact that he wore all white? How simple yet absolutely fitting.


I haven't seen Constantine.  I thought we were just throwing out cool devils!  Haven't seen Devil's Advocate either.

Oh hell, I just forgot!  Viggo Mortensen in The Prophecy.  Now THAT is my favorite devil!  That was the first film I ever saw Viggo in and thought he did a great job.
Logged

Xbox Live Gamertag: cstiffler
whiteboyskim
Senior Staff Writer
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 7850


Hard partier


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2005, 10:22:59 PM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Quote from: "Rage"
He was good stiffler, but how can you not like the russian cosmonaut from Armageddon in what really was a fantastic turn as the devil in Constantine? And the fact that he wore all white? How simple yet absolutely fitting.


I haven't seen Constantine.  I thought we were just throwing out cool devils!  Haven't seen Devil's Advocate either.

Oh hell, I just forgot!  Viggo Mortensen in The Prophecy.  Now THAT is my favorite devil!  That was the first film I ever saw Viggo in and thought he did a great job.


Viggo was the best filmic Satan, I would agree. He's not trying to seduce anyone, he's protecting his turf. This is the crucial difference between Viggo and all others. Every time you see Satan on screen he's played as a trickster out to seduce someone into evil and when he fails he becomes unhinged. Viggo's portrayal was richer, and that's saying something considering he's in maybe 10 minutes of the movie total.

I also am a big, big fan of Al in Devil's Advocate especially during the Eddie Barcone monologue and the final rant he does. Gloriously over the top stuff. biggrin
Logged

Behold the glory of my new blog!
Filmmaking is vision plus faith plus balls, all 3 of which Hollywood knows little about.
Dafones
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2150


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2005, 10:42:34 PM »

Riiiiiight ... I think I remember that flick. Convinced/tricked my friends into watching it with me, and I felt bad. But Viggo was pretty good in the movie. What I remember from his portrayal was that his Satan was, well not honourable, but I guess respectable. Classy. Humble even. Something like that.

But man, I thought The Prophecy sucked.
Logged

Now Playing: GTA - San Andreas [PS2]
Yoshi's Island DS [DS]
stiffler
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4071


View Profile WWW
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2005, 11:06:52 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
But man, I thought The Prophecy sucked.


If you felt that way about the original then you might want to avoid The Prophecy II-V at all costs! :lol:
Logged

Xbox Live Gamertag: cstiffler
Dafones
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2150


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2005, 11:51:08 PM »

Yeah, made a point of it pretty quickly.
Logged

Now Playing: GTA - San Andreas [PS2]
Yoshi's Island DS [DS]
Autistic Angel
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3685


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2008, 10:04:01 PM »

I didn't really understand the end of the movie.  I know it's pretty old at this point, but I'm going to flag the spoiler just in case....

Spoiler for Hiden:
Perhaps I badly misunderstood the climax, but it seemed to me that Gabriel was using the Lance of Longinus -- I mean, "Spear of Destiny" -- to help bring the Devil's son into the mortal world, triggering a literal Hell on Earth where only the most purest and most devout would earn their way into Heaven and God's good grace.  This seems like a pretty good outcome for the Devil, so why would he go out of his way to prevent it?

At first I thought he misunderstood the situation and thought Gabriel was trying to kill his son in the womb, but that doesn't explain why he'd send his own son back to Hell.  I suppose it's also possible that the Devil wanted to preserve "the Balance" and stop Gabriel from cheating by getting directly involved in things, but that seems out of character somehow.

Can someone clue me in on his motivation there?

-Autistic Angel
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.182 seconds with 104 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.049s, 2q)