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Author Topic: CNN - Obama to announce that Osama Bin Laden has been killed  (Read 6824 times)
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« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2011, 01:05:00 PM »

Stole this off of QT3 because it's just so friggen funny.  Reminds me of the  WW2 RTS game parody that someone made up with all the main leaders at that time.

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« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2011, 02:14:52 PM »

This has headed right into R&P, so I'm not going to respond or elaborate.

Morlac, thanks for the link.

Hep, if you want to discuss aborigines, feel free to start an R&P and I'd gladly share my thoughts. I'd already tried to move any elaboration in the other non-r&p thread over to obama 1 osama 0 thread.

P.S. RE: natives - remember, we didn't commit genocide, we're just bigots. Roll Eyes

Cheeba, thanks for the insult. thumbsup

[edit] clarified my comment(s).

I'm not contributing to this thread any further.
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« Reply #162 on: May 04, 2011, 02:15:55 PM »

maybe Zekester has taken over his account.... paranoid
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« Reply #163 on: May 04, 2011, 04:25:20 PM »

I hope he took his ball with him...
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« Reply #164 on: May 04, 2011, 04:26:34 PM »

Stolen from OO R&P




 icon_biggrin
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« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2011, 04:28:40 PM »

At least he didn't bring up Vir....
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« Reply #166 on: May 04, 2011, 04:31:08 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on May 04, 2011, 04:26:34 PM

Stolen from OO R&P




 icon_biggrin

would have been easier to steal it from page 1 of this thread  Tongue
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« Reply #167 on: May 04, 2011, 06:45:54 PM »

they have decided not to release photos of the dead Osama Bin Laden
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« Reply #168 on: May 04, 2011, 08:54:25 PM »

Cue the 'Geronimo' backlash:

Quote
Native Americans are objecting to the U.S. military's use of the code name "Geronimo" for Osama bin Laden during the raid that killed the al-Qaida leader.  After bin Laden was killed, the military sent a message back to the White House: "Geronimo EKIA" enemy killed in action.
...
The leader of the Fort Sill Apache Tribe is looking for a formal apology from President Barack Obama.

Tribal Chairman Jeff Houser asked for the apology in a letter sent Tuesday to the president, saying his tribe was ecstatic to learn about bin Laden's death but those feelings were tempered when members learned that the code word used for the terrorist was the name of one of the Oklahoma tribe's legendary warriors.

Houser said equating Geronimo or any other Native American figure with a "mass murderer and cowardly terrorist" was painful and offensive.
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« Reply #169 on: May 04, 2011, 09:28:48 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on May 04, 2011, 08:54:25 PM

Cue the 'Geronimo' backlash:

Quote
Native Americans are objecting to the U.S. military's use of the code name "Geronimo" for Osama bin Laden during the raid that killed the al-Qaida leader.  After bin Laden was killed, the military sent a message back to the White House: "Geronimo EKIA" enemy killed in action.
...
The leader of the Fort Sill Apache Tribe is looking for a formal apology from President Barack Obama.

Tribal Chairman Jeff Houser asked for the apology in a letter sent Tuesday to the president, saying his tribe was ecstatic to learn about bin Laden's death but those feelings were tempered when members learned that the code word used for the terrorist was the name of one of the Oklahoma tribe's legendary warriors.

Houser said equating Geronimo or any other Native American figure with a "mass murderer and cowardly terrorist" was painful and offensive.

everyone uses Geronimo as a 'balls out go for it' action,its a commonly used phrase now...and was Geronimo code word not the codename of the mission,not actual Bin Laden himself?

isn't 'Geronimo EKIA' more meaning Geronimo Enemy killed in Action(as in enemy of Geronimo mission)

Maybe i am missing something,i do know some tensions are high with some Native Americans in America..so perhaps i should stay out of this,as i may not know all the ins and outs icon_confused
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« Reply #170 on: May 04, 2011, 09:42:54 PM »

wasn't Gernonimo always encouraging war on the US and the subject of a massive years long manhunt involving all kinds of soldiers??
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« Reply #171 on: May 04, 2011, 11:38:03 PM »

I don't remember Geronimo flying planes into tall buildings-I guess that got left out of the textbooks!
Was Geronimo a terrorist?  Who were the aggressors back then? I can see how some people might be upset by this.
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« Reply #172 on: May 05, 2011, 01:40:13 AM »

Geronimo:  He was an military Apache leader.  The Apache were one of the most truculent tribes in the West. 

Quote
Though outnumbered, Geronimo fought against both Mexican and United States troops and became famous for his daring exploits and numerous escapes from capture from 1858 to 1886. One such escape, as legend has it, took place in the Robledo Mountains of southwest New Mexico. The legend states that Geronimo and his followers entered a cave, and the U.S. soldiers waited outside the cave entrance for him, but he never came out. Later it was heard that Geronimo was spotted in a nearby area. The second entrance to the cave has yet to be found and the cave is still called Geronimo's Cave. At the end of his military career, he led a small band of 36 men, women, and children. They evaded thousands of Mexican and American troops for over a year, making him the most famous Native American of the time and earning him the title of the "worst Indian who ever lived" among white settlers. According to James L. Haley, "About two weeks after the escape there was a report of a family massacred near Silver City; one girl was taken alive and hanged from a meat hook jammed under the base of her skull." His band was one of the last major forces of independent Native American warriors who refused to acknowledge the United States occupation of the American West.

Yeah, I'd say that the comparison was apt.  Tora Bora, anyone?
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« Reply #173 on: May 05, 2011, 05:05:01 AM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 03, 2011, 09:38:23 PM

Flatlander, I'm really not seeing what you're seeing.  I've been reading the Independent, and therefore Robert Fisk, for years and I've never seen him so much as pigeonhole a country, let alone outright hate one.  Your reaction in this thread is a prime example of why I don't feel comfortable discussing things like 9/11 on this forum.  I'm sorry to say it but too many Americans are still not ready to have a rational debate on that and similar subjects.  I remember Metallicorphan here getting a proper drubbing on either this board or OO for even daring to suggest that the US government's explanation of 9/11 may not be 100% accurate.

Also, as Hepcat said, it is the job of a journalist to seek truth in any matter.  It's what they do, and we should be thankful that there are still some left who don't just repeat government press releases and do all their investigations via Wikipedia.

That you've read Fisk in the Independent for years and haven't  picked up on his anti-american bias probably contributes to your inability to relate to Americans on 9-11 and similar subjects.      The job of a Journalist may well be ideally to seek the truth,   but Fisk's  opinion pieces show just how often they sink to the level of conspiracy mongering and America bashing.   I do feel bad for the man and wish him luck in finding another mass-murderer to build his career on.  Perhaps Kim-Jong-Il can pencil him in?


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« Reply #174 on: May 05, 2011, 06:33:49 AM »

Oh fuck off Flatlander.  I guess it's time to leave this place to you Americans to cry amongst yourselves.
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« Reply #175 on: May 05, 2011, 07:19:28 AM »

Who's crying? Not me, I'm glad he's gone.

Whatever his codeword. finger
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« Reply #176 on: May 05, 2011, 07:42:50 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on May 05, 2011, 01:40:13 AM

Geronimo:  He was an military Apache leader.  The Apache were one of the most truculent tribes in the West. 

Quote
Though outnumbered, Geronimo fought against both Mexican and United States troops and became famous for his daring exploits and numerous escapes from capture from 1858 to 1886. One such escape, as legend has it, took place in the Robledo Mountains of southwest New Mexico. The legend states that Geronimo and his followers entered a cave, and the U.S. soldiers waited outside the cave entrance for him, but he never came out. Later it was heard that Geronimo was spotted in a nearby area. The second entrance to the cave has yet to be found and the cave is still called Geronimo's Cave. At the end of his military career, he led a small band of 36 men, women, and children. They evaded thousands of Mexican and American troops for over a year, making him the most famous Native American of the time and earning him the title of the "worst Indian who ever lived" among white settlers. According to James L. Haley, "About two weeks after the escape there was a report of a family massacred near Silver City; one girl was taken alive and hanged from a meat hook jammed under the base of her skull." His band was one of the last major forces of independent Native American warriors who refused to acknowledge the United States occupation of the American West.

Yeah, I'd say that the comparison was apt.  Tora Bora, anyone?

Comparison is apt because they both lived in caves?  Osama was tall and Michael Jordan is tall.  Why didn't they call it Operation Michael Jordan?  That would be just as apt.

My thinking is that Osama was a BAD GUY.  Was Geronimo also a BAD GUY?  What is history's decision on that one?  It's not a snarky question-I'd really like to know.  I have no doubt that at the time he was an enemy of the United States. But wasn't the US encroaching on Apache territory? It seems like quite a gray area to me.  I'm not upset about it because I'm not an Indian but I can understand why some people might be upset.  I'm sure the Scots would be upset if it had been the English who went after Bin Laden and called the operation "Operation William Wallace" or if the Canadians had called it "Operation Louis Riel"
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« Reply #177 on: May 05, 2011, 08:51:01 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on May 05, 2011, 07:42:50 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on May 05, 2011, 01:40:13 AM

Geronimo:  He was an military Apache leader.  The Apache were one of the most truculent tribes in the West. 

Quote
Though outnumbered, Geronimo fought against both Mexican and United States troops and became famous for his daring exploits and numerous escapes from capture from 1858 to 1886. One such escape, as legend has it, took place in the Robledo Mountains of southwest New Mexico. The legend states that Geronimo and his followers entered a cave, and the U.S. soldiers waited outside the cave entrance for him, but he never came out. Later it was heard that Geronimo was spotted in a nearby area. The second entrance to the cave has yet to be found and the cave is still called Geronimo's Cave. At the end of his military career, he led a small band of 36 men, women, and children. They evaded thousands of Mexican and American troops for over a year, making him the most famous Native American of the time and earning him the title of the "worst Indian who ever lived" among white settlers. According to James L. Haley, "About two weeks after the escape there was a report of a family massacred near Silver City; one girl was taken alive and hanged from a meat hook jammed under the base of her skull." His band was one of the last major forces of independent Native American warriors who refused to acknowledge the United States occupation of the American West.

Yeah, I'd say that the comparison was apt.  Tora Bora, anyone?

Comparison is apt because they both lived in caves?  Osama was tall and Michael Jordan is tall.  Why didn't they call it Operation Michael Jordan?  That would be just as apt.

I don't remember Michael Jordan living in caves- I guess that got left out of the textbooks too!

from the way the BBC puts it the comparison was indeed for his ability to hide well and avoid capture.

Quote
Referring to US military possibilities in the tribal areas of Afghanistan's mountainous regions, Allan R Millet, a retired Marine Corps colonel and Ohio State University professor, said in 2001: "It's like shooting missiles at Geronimo... you might get a couple of Apaches, but what difference does that make?"
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« Reply #178 on: May 05, 2011, 12:10:53 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on May 05, 2011, 08:51:01 AM


I don't remember Michael Jordan living in caves- I guess that got left out of the textbooks too!


It was right after he tried baseball.

Hugh, keep posting.  I didn't see anything anti-American in that article.  Granted, I haven't been following Fisk, but I appreciated his take and thank you for the article.
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« Reply #179 on: May 05, 2011, 12:47:32 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 05, 2011, 06:33:49 AM

Oh fuck off Flatlander.  I guess it's time to leave this place to you Americans to cry amongst yourselves.

Huw seriously, its not that bad.  I hope you don't leave



Btw, I think the Operation name was Geronimo, but Bin Laden  finger code name was Jackpot
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« Reply #180 on: May 05, 2011, 01:16:00 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 05, 2011, 06:33:49 AM

Oh fuck off Flatlander.  I guess it's time to leave this place to you Americans to cry amongst yourselves.

Cool....i'm not the only one that melts down from time to time!
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« Reply #181 on: May 05, 2011, 01:43:20 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on May 05, 2011, 01:16:00 PM

Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 05, 2011, 06:33:49 AM

Oh fuck off Flatlander.  I guess it's time to leave this place to you Americans to cry amongst yourselves.

Cool....i'm not the only one that melts down from time to time!

You're the best at it, though.
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« Reply #182 on: May 05, 2011, 02:00:34 PM »

Oh fuck off Grue. I guess it's....

oh, wait  icon_confused

 icon_razz
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« Reply #183 on: May 05, 2011, 02:13:08 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on May 05, 2011, 02:00:34 PM

Oh fuck off Grue. I guess it's....

oh, wait  icon_confused

 icon_razz

dude, the revolving door is starting to wear down.


 Tongue
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« Reply #184 on: May 05, 2011, 02:59:22 PM »

Quote from: Flatlander on May 05, 2011, 05:05:01 AM

Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 03, 2011, 09:38:23 PM

Flatlander, I'm really not seeing what you're seeing.  I've been reading the Independent, and therefore Robert Fisk, for years and I've never seen him so much as pigeonhole a country, let alone outright hate one.  Your reaction in this thread is a prime example of why I don't feel comfortable discussing things like 9/11 on this forum.  I'm sorry to say it but too many Americans are still not ready to have a rational debate on that and similar subjects.  I remember Metallicorphan here getting a proper drubbing on either this board or OO for even daring to suggest that the US government's explanation of 9/11 may not be 100% accurate.

Also, as Hepcat said, it is the job of a journalist to seek truth in any matter.  It's what they do, and we should be thankful that there are still some left who don't just repeat government press releases and do all their investigations via Wikipedia.

That you've read Fisk in the Independent for years and haven't  picked up on his anti-american bias probably contributes to your inability to relate to Americans on 9-11 and similar subjects.      The job of a Journalist may well be ideally to seek the truth,   but Fisk's  opinion pieces show just how often they sink to the level of conspiracy mongering and America bashing.   I do feel bad for the man and wish him luck in finding another mass-murderer to build his career on.  Perhaps Kim-Jong-Il can pencil him in?

I haven't read ALL of his work, nor followed him closely for years, but from the dozen or so articles I've read of Fisk he just comes across as someone who's equally wary of all sides involved, not as overly biased against America to the point you seem convinced he is.  I guess it all comes down to the level of criticism the reader can accept.  I have a fairly high tolerance level as long as the questions make sense to me. 
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« Reply #185 on: May 05, 2011, 03:15:08 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on May 05, 2011, 07:42:50 AM

My thinking is that Osama was a BAD GUY.  Was Geronimo also a BAD GUY?  What is history's decision on that one?  It's not a snarky question-I'd really like to know.  I have no doubt that at the time he was an enemy of the United States. But wasn't the US encroaching on Apache territory? It seems like quite a gray area to me.  I'm not upset about it because I'm not an Indian but I can understand why some people might be upset.  I'm sure the Scots would be upset if it had been the English who went after Bin Laden and called the operation "Operation William Wallace" or if the Canadians had called it "Operation Louis Riel"

Did you read the Wiki article I quoted?  He wasn't a freedom fighter.  The only time he engaged military forces was when they tracked him down.  The operating procedures of the Indians in general was to raid town and outlying farms, killing the men, stealing the women and children, and stealing anything they wanted that wasn't tied down.

Yeah, I only posted about the cave thing.  But impaling children on meat hooks strikes me as a terroristic act, no matter the century. 

There were Native American tribes that weren't out to rape and pillage any outsiders.    If you look at the forces involved in the French and Indian War, you'll see tribes involved as standing forces on both sides of the equation. 
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« Reply #186 on: May 05, 2011, 03:18:14 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on May 05, 2011, 03:15:08 PM

Quote from: Canuck on May 05, 2011, 07:42:50 AM

My thinking is that Osama was a BAD GUY.  Was Geronimo also a BAD GUY?  What is history's decision on that one?  It's not a snarky question-I'd really like to know.  I have no doubt that at the time he was an enemy of the United States. But wasn't the US encroaching on Apache territory? It seems like quite a gray area to me.  I'm not upset about it because I'm not an Indian but I can understand why some people might be upset.  I'm sure the Scots would be upset if it had been the English who went after Bin Laden and called the operation "Operation William Wallace" or if the Canadians had called it "Operation Louis Riel"

Did you read the Wiki article I quoted?  He wasn't a freedom fighter.  The only time he engaged military forces was when they tracked him down.  The operating procedures of the Indians in general was to raid town and outlying farms, killing the men, stealing the women and children, and stealing anything they wanted that wasn't tied down.

Yeah, I only posted about the cave thing.  But impaling children on meat hooks strikes me as a terroristic act, no matter the century. 

There were Native American tribes that weren't out to rape and pillage any outsiders.    If you look at the forces involved in the French and Indian War, you'll see tribes involved as standing forces on both sides of the equation. 

I blame Kevin Costner for the current lax attitude we take towards them injuns.
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« Reply #187 on: May 05, 2011, 03:52:55 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on May 05, 2011, 03:15:08 PM

Quote from: Canuck on May 05, 2011, 07:42:50 AM

My thinking is that Osama was a BAD GUY.  Was Geronimo also a BAD GUY?  What is history's decision on that one?  It's not a snarky question-I'd really like to know.  I have no doubt that at the time he was an enemy of the United States. But wasn't the US encroaching on Apache territory? It seems like quite a gray area to me.  I'm not upset about it because I'm not an Indian but I can understand why some people might be upset.  I'm sure the Scots would be upset if it had been the English who went after Bin Laden and called the operation "Operation William Wallace" or if the Canadians had called it "Operation Louis Riel"

Did you read the Wiki article I quoted?  He wasn't a freedom fighter.  The only time he engaged military forces was when they tracked him down.  The operating procedures of the Indians in general was to raid town and outlying farms, killing the men, stealing the women and children, and stealing anything they wanted that wasn't tied down.

Yeah, I only posted about the cave thing.  But impaling children on meat hooks strikes me as a terroristic act, no matter the century. 

There were Native American tribes that weren't out to rape and pillage any outsiders.    If you look at the forces involved in the French and Indian War, you'll see tribes involved as standing forces on both sides of the equation. 

Im no expert on American history but wasn't America the land of the indians before the english, french and spanish people got there, and took it from them? I also seem to remember atrocities on both sides of that particular piece of history, entire tribes killed and the like?
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« Reply #188 on: May 05, 2011, 04:08:00 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on May 05, 2011, 01:40:13 AM

Geronimo:  He was an military Apache leader.  The Apache were one of the most truculent tribes in the West.  

Quote
Though outnumbered, Geronimo fought against both Mexican and United States troops and became famous for his daring exploits and numerous escapes from capture from 1858 to 1886. One such escape, as legend has it, took place in the Robledo Mountains of southwest New Mexico. The legend states that Geronimo and his followers entered a cave, and the U.S. soldiers waited outside the cave entrance for him, but he never came out. Later it was heard that Geronimo was spotted in a nearby area. The second entrance to the cave has yet to be found and the cave is still called Geronimo's Cave. At the end of his military career, he led a small band of 36 men, women, and children. They evaded thousands of Mexican and American troops for over a year, making him the most famous Native American of the time and earning him the title of the "worst Indian who ever lived" among white settlers. According to James L. Haley, "About two weeks after the escape there was a report of a family massacred near Silver City; one girl was taken alive and hanged from a meat hook jammed under the base of her skull." His band was one of the last major forces of independent Native American warriors who refused to acknowledge the United States occupation of the American West.

Yeah, I'd say that the comparison was apt.  Tora Bora, anyone?
To put him into proper historical perspective, you should have included this section of the wiki too:
Quote
After an attack by a company of Mexican soldiers killed many members of his family in 1858, Geronimo joined revenge attacks on the Mexicans and later against the United States. He became known for bravery and daring feats and was revered by the Apaches as a warrior with spiritual powers. In 1886 Geronimo was eventually tracked down by U.S. authorities and surrendered.
If you dig into other Native American rebellions in N.A. you almost always find similar stories. I personally don't feel the details of Geronimo's rebellion shares that much in common with the modern background, tactics and actions of a terrorist group like al-Qaeda. Despite his clever use of caves like Osama, their realities are worlds and historical generations apart.

That said, I think some here may be getting the full sentiment of the use of Geronimo wrong. Geronimo has often been historically used as a military go-code word too, much in the same way Zulu (another formidable indigenous people) has. Using those names is often done out of a respect for the formidable reputation a historical opponent had. Geronimo, like Gabriel Dumont (Red River Rebellion) in Canada, became a celebrity after capture and his reputation became much larger than life:
Quote
He became known for bravery and daring feats and was revered by the Apaches as a warrior with spiritual powers. In 1886 Geronimo was eventually tracked down by U.S. authorities and surrendered. As a prisoner of war in old age he became a celebrity but was never allowed to return to the land of his birth.

In a nutshell - I don't think the use of Geronimo by the Obama Administration was necessarily done out of disrespect.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 04:10:04 PM by kronovan » Logged
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« Reply #189 on: May 05, 2011, 04:13:48 PM »

Yup, pretty much.  The histories I read about the Texas Rangers covered a good chunk of the Texas history.  There were warlike tribes that couldn't be dealt with in any other way.  And there were some that could be.  

This isn't a question about the balance of atrocities between the Native Americans and the U.S. Government.  There's plenty of blood to go around on that one.  It's about the aptness of the use of Geronimo as a codeword.

The man was an outlaw that was wanted for the deaths of many innocent civilians, hid out in a desert land, and was finally run to ground by U.S. government forces.  Even more telling, Geronimo's hatred of the "white man" was caused by an attack by Spanish soldiers that killed his wife, mother, and children.  
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« Reply #190 on: May 05, 2011, 04:23:01 PM »

you left out the best part about Geronimo:

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While Geronimo said he was never a chief, he was a military leader. As a Chiricahua Apache, this meant he was one of many people with special spiritual insights and abilities known to Apache people as "Power". Among these were the ability to walk without leaving tracks; the abilities now known as telekinesis and telepathy; and the ability to survive gunshot (rifle/musket, pistol, and shotgun).

he was a mutant!
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« Reply #191 on: May 05, 2011, 04:26:09 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on May 04, 2011, 09:42:54 PM

wasn't Gernonimo always encouraging war on the US and the subject of a massive years long manhunt involving all kinds of soldiers??


he did in every cowboy movie.......
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« Reply #192 on: May 05, 2011, 04:29:01 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 05, 2011, 03:18:14 PM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on May 05, 2011, 03:15:08 PM

Quote from: Canuck on May 05, 2011, 07:42:50 AM

My thinking is that Osama was a BAD GUY.  Was Geronimo also a BAD GUY?  What is history's decision on that one?  It's not a snarky question-I'd really like to know.  I have no doubt that at the time he was an enemy of the United States. But wasn't the US encroaching on Apache territory? It seems like quite a gray area to me.  I'm not upset about it because I'm not an Indian but I can understand why some people might be upset.  I'm sure the Scots would be upset if it had been the English who went after Bin Laden and called the operation "Operation William Wallace" or if the Canadians had called it "Operation Louis Riel"

Did you read the Wiki article I quoted?  He wasn't a freedom fighter.  The only time he engaged military forces was when they tracked him down.  The operating procedures of the Indians in general was to raid town and outlying farms, killing the men, stealing the women and children, and stealing anything they wanted that wasn't tied down.

Yeah, I only posted about the cave thing.  But impaling children on meat hooks strikes me as a terroristic act, no matter the century.  

There were Native American tribes that weren't out to rape and pillage any outsiders.    If you look at the forces involved in the French and Indian War, you'll see tribes involved as standing forces on both sides of the equation.  

I blame Kevin Costner for the current lax attitude we take towards them injuns.

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« Reply #193 on: May 05, 2011, 05:11:56 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on May 05, 2011, 03:52:55 PM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on May 05, 2011, 03:15:08 PM

Quote from: Canuck on May 05, 2011, 07:42:50 AM

My thinking is that Osama was a BAD GUY.  Was Geronimo also a BAD GUY?  What is history's decision on that one?  It's not a snarky question-I'd really like to know.  I have no doubt that at the time he was an enemy of the United States. But wasn't the US encroaching on Apache territory? It seems like quite a gray area to me.  I'm not upset about it because I'm not an Indian but I can understand why some people might be upset.  I'm sure the Scots would be upset if it had been the English who went after Bin Laden and called the operation "Operation William Wallace" or if the Canadians had called it "Operation Louis Riel"

Did you read the Wiki article I quoted?  He wasn't a freedom fighter.  The only time he engaged military forces was when they tracked him down.  The operating procedures of the Indians in general was to raid town and outlying farms, killing the men, stealing the women and children, and stealing anything they wanted that wasn't tied down.

Yeah, I only posted about the cave thing.  But impaling children on meat hooks strikes me as a terroristic act, no matter the century. 

There were Native American tribes that weren't out to rape and pillage any outsiders.    If you look at the forces involved in the French and Indian War, you'll see tribes involved as standing forces on both sides of the equation. 

Im no expert on American history but wasn't America the land of the indians before the english, french and spanish people got there, and took it from them? I also seem to remember atrocities on both sides of that particular piece of history, entire tribes killed and the like?


You are correct.  No one is innocent
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« Reply #194 on: May 05, 2011, 05:22:12 PM »

To find any nation or people on earth that is truly innocent, you need to start tracking their history from right now...

...no...right now...

...no....NOW

....wait....right now!
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« Reply #195 on: May 05, 2011, 07:36:20 PM »

New Details

Quote
He said the raid should be described as a precision, floor-by-floor operation to hunt and find the al Qaeda leader and his protectors.

As the Navy Seals moved into bin Laden's compound, they were fired on by bin Laden's courier, who was in the guesthouse, the official said.

The commandos returned fire, and the courier was killed, along with a woman with him. The official said she was hit in the crossfire.

Quote
The Americans were never fired on again as they encountered and killed a man on the first floor and then bin Laden's son on a staircase, before arriving at bin Laden's room.

Officials had said the al Qaeda boss was killed after he appeared to be reaching for a weapon.

But although he was unarmed, it has also emerged there were two guns in bin Laden's room, a Makarov hand gun and an AK47, which commandos believed he was attempting to get to.
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« Reply #196 on: May 06, 2011, 12:47:51 PM »

Al-Qaida 'confirms' Osama Dead

i put confirms like that because we had already had it confirmed from the White House



EDIT:oh and i love this icon_lol
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« Reply #197 on: May 06, 2011, 01:08:50 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 06, 2011, 12:47:51 PM


They're just in on it too.  He's not really dead.   slywink
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« Reply #198 on: May 06, 2011, 02:08:59 PM »

I understand they had to take down PSN for the op, but can't they put it back up now?
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« Reply #199 on: May 06, 2011, 02:17:42 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on May 06, 2011, 01:08:50 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on May 06, 2011, 12:47:51 PM


They're just in on it too.  He's not really dead.   slywink

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone.

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