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Author Topic: Chuck Season 4 discussion (spoilers!!!)  (Read 50637 times)
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farley2k
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« Reply #520 on: March 16, 2010, 08:19:04 PM »

Perhaps I am doing myself a disservice but I have been rewatching season 1.  When you watch last nights episode and then watch Chuck vs. the Undercover Lover where we meet a woman Casey loved who is really a French spy...well it is like two different shows with the same cast and set. 

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« Reply #521 on: March 16, 2010, 08:29:25 PM »

It does seem like the audience is leaving the show now. 1.9 in ratings last night, 5.78 million viewers; Lost to a How I Met Your Mother re-run. http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/03/16/tv-ratings-chuck-vs-daylight-savings-time-drops-big/45105

I will be really shocked if this is not the last season.  icon_frown
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« Reply #522 on: March 16, 2010, 08:50:53 PM »

I agree it's sad, but I don't understand why NBC agreed to keep the show, and then changed the formula so much.  Doesn't matter if it's budget cuts, or whatever - you can't take a bubble show, cut the budget and change the formula and expect it to succeed.  Even if only half the fans feel the way Farley and I do about this season, then they've sabotaged themselves.  They're certainly not going to be gaining any new fans with the current story lines and show concept.  I'm still watching but mostly out of loyalty for the first couple seasons.  (and because I <heart> Yvonne Strahovski smile )
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« Reply #523 on: March 16, 2010, 10:20:48 PM »

dont give up yet.  I have a feeling since they are wrapping up the 13 episode arc and will be going into the final six which have been stated as being a new story arc that the recent dark tone is soon to change.  I do feel the tone of the show has changed as Chuck become more spyish but Im thinking that its more a set up for a payoff than anything else. 
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« Reply #524 on: March 16, 2010, 10:34:42 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on March 16, 2010, 10:20:48 PM

dont give up yet.  I have a feeling since they are wrapping up the 13 episode arc and will be going into the final six which have been stated as being a new story arc that the recent dark tone is soon to change.  I do feel the tone of the show has changed as Chuck become more spyish but Im thinking that its more a set up for a payoff than anything else.  

Frankly I'm enjoying this season quite a bit (though I wish they could have simply added Kristin Kreuk to the cast), I thought last night's episode was absolutely wonderful.  Of course I am a longtime Adam Baldwin fan and was delighted to see him finally get a decent storyline and screen time.  I'm not sure what the big complaints are - the characters continue to move forward and deal with the "complexities" of spydom vs "life" as well as growing up in general.  I think the writers have floated these ongoing themes since day one, but are now just dealing with them differently.  The characters like the show are evolving - honestly I don't think they could sustain the writing if they left the characters stagnant and just did "spy story/villain of the week" episodes.

It sounds like some folk wanted the show to be a full-on comedy and they have gone a different route.  I guess I never viewed the show as a comedy but more of a fun, light-hearted action-adventure with comedic elements and characters.  I really hope it lasts.
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« Reply #525 on: March 16, 2010, 11:12:01 PM »

I enjoyed the turn towards darker subjects.  I loved the show as it originally was and I love it now. It's very different but I like both.
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« Reply #526 on: March 17, 2010, 02:21:29 PM »

add me to the list of enjoying this season.  there have been some low points (the chuck-sarah will they/won't they is getting old) but I'm still looking forward to each episode.

I do agree that this will probably be the end though since the ratings are falling.
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« Reply #527 on: March 17, 2010, 02:53:07 PM »

I am happy people enjoy the show but like Rowdy said it was a show close to cancellation anyway and I don't think this new setup is going to draw in viewers.   

Has anyone heard people talking about the show as something they just started watching and are loving it?  It doesn't feel that way to me but I don't talk to a ton of people about TV.
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« Reply #528 on: March 17, 2010, 03:56:18 PM »

Exactly... there was tons of buzz about Chuck in S1 and S2, and next to none this year.  It's much more generic as an action lite show and doesn't nearly stand out the way it did.  The gleeful 'geek' tone of the show (the technology, over the top costumes and locations) have been massively reduced, and the action pumped up, probably to try and make it more mainstream... and instead they've simply watered down what made Chuck great to it's fans.  I'm sure this season was some braindead NBC's executive changes made to try and get more viewers while saving money, and as usual, they simply manage to piss off half the viewers they already had.  They'll take the reduced ratings as proof that Chuck can't make it, instead of proof that Chuck shouldn't have been messed with.

Anyway, it's still a decent show compared to most.  I also think this season so far has been a setup for a payoff in the last 6 eps... I'm sure they're moving towards some kind of reconciliation as far as the relationship on the show goes.  I don't think, however, they'll change the formula back to the light hearted comedy and locational episodes in S1 and S2 - the reason for straying away from that is far more likely to be because of budget in sets and costumes, etc. and changes in writers.  If it survives to season 4 and they bring in a new show runner to try and figure out what went wrong in S3 maybe they'll get the message and revert back to the original formula.  You can still evolve the characters and stories - just don't change the tenor of the show!
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« Reply #529 on: March 17, 2010, 06:32:25 PM »

Quote from: farley2k on March 17, 2010, 02:53:07 PM

I am happy people enjoy the show but like Rowdy said it was a show close to cancellation anyway and I don't think this new setup is going to draw in viewers.   

Has anyone heard people talking about the show as something they just started watching and are loving it?  It doesn't feel that way to me but I don't talk to a ton of people about TV.

I know quite a few people who started watching for Kristin Kreuk, but now that she's gone...
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« Reply #530 on: March 17, 2010, 06:46:39 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on March 17, 2010, 06:32:25 PM

Quote from: farley2k on March 17, 2010, 02:53:07 PM

I am happy people enjoy the show but like Rowdy said it was a show close to cancellation anyway and I don't think this new setup is going to draw in viewers.   

Has anyone heard people talking about the show as something they just started watching and are loving it?  It doesn't feel that way to me but I don't talk to a ton of people about TV.

I know quite a few people who started watching for Kristin Kreuk, but now that she's gone...

I'm guessing you weren't one of them?  icon_twisted
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« Reply #531 on: March 17, 2010, 08:48:54 PM »

Of course this weeks episode was definitive proof that Jane is a bad ass:
Spoiler for Hiden:
he kills a terminator with his bare hands.
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« Reply #532 on: March 17, 2010, 10:27:28 PM »

Are you guys gonna let Office fans lead Jim & Pam to victory over Chuck and Sarah? (Chuck and Sarah were leading at one point, but I sense a few Office fan sites led their viewers over there to pump up the vote) I think not! smile

Go vote (no registration necessary, you do need to type in a word as part of anti-spam stuff):
TV's Top Couples: Are Your Faves in the Final Four?
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b171595_tvs_top_couples_are_your_faves_in_final.html
I voted once from home and once from work. And I do still enjoy The Office, but I'd like Chuck to win at SOMEthing.  icon_smile
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« Reply #533 on: March 18, 2010, 12:12:16 AM »

This last episode made me feel like it was leading into the end of the show.
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« Reply #534 on: March 18, 2010, 04:01:46 AM »

Quote from: DamageInc on March 18, 2010, 12:12:16 AM

This last episode made me feel like it was leading into the end of the show.

it's all an elaborate ploy.
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« Reply #535 on: March 19, 2010, 11:43:04 AM »

I think that's the problem, about every other episode feels like it's set up to be a "Series Ender."  icon_razz

EW's TV columnist had a couple spoilery Chuck finds:
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/03/17/ask-ausiello-spoilers-true-blood-lost/
Spoiler for Hiden:
Julia Ling will reprise her role in the May 10 episode. Teases Schwartz: “She’s coming back for Morgan.”

Ausiello: I have it on good authority that the season finale will feature at least one significant death.

If you love Jeffster, the season finale (May 24) should be fun:

'Chuck' finale mystery solved: Find out what the [bleep] is going on in this photo!
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/03/18/chuck-finale-jeffster/

The ratings remain pretty bad. Apparently the producer decided it was time to let fans they need to "get organized" again, though I doubt fan-campaigns would bring it back for another season if NBC wanted to cancel it:
http://twitter.com/JoshSchwartz76/status/10574787608

Even if this proves the last season, at least it got a lot more time than Reaper (a show I liked, but that got the axe after an abbreviated 2nd season).
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« Reply #536 on: March 23, 2010, 01:22:18 PM »

So what did people think of last night's episode.  I think you can probably guess that I hated it.  It had one funny bit with the towel and other than that it was dark, dark, dark.  Ok that isn't completely true the stuff with Casey was supposed to be funny but I find Jeff and Lester being gross to be the opposite of funny. 

Anyway they certainly are staying on the becoming a spy theme.  I don't understand why Chuck believes that he and Sara will be together if he becomes a real spy since it is likely "real spys" would be assigned to different areas but I guess they want to try to keep that spark going. 

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« Reply #537 on: March 23, 2010, 01:54:44 PM »

I enjoyed it OK, but certainly not as much as last week's. It was directed by Robert Duncan McNeill (Lt. Paris from Star Trek Voyager, but now mostly just directing TV shows).

I had one beef near the end...
Spoiler for Hiden:
It's pretty clear from the lack of a shell casing, smoke, etc. that Chuck didn't fire his gun. You'd think Sarah would pick up on that from her view, or that they'd just ask Chuck for the gun back to confirm the kill.
I'm pretty skeptical the show will get renewed, as the ratings remain flat, and I've read NBC plans to crank out quite a few new pilots for next season. It would probably need to run at least 2 more full seasons before qualifying for full syndication royalties, so I don't know if that would enter in the equation for NBC's decision-making.

I think part of the creators' dilemma is that they probably thought playing up the spy portion would make the show cooler, "more colorful" and attract more viewers. But most early fans probably had more fun with the Buy More stuff, and seeing Chuck use his own wits and clumsiness to survive (rather than "flashing" himself into Bruce Lee).

Chances are, the switch in emphasis probably drove away as many viewers as it attracted, which maybe accounts for ratings not really getting substantially better or worse. Optimists would probably say there's still more people watching via DVR, Hulu and NBC.com.
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« Reply #538 on: March 23, 2010, 02:23:03 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on March 23, 2010, 01:54:44 PM

I had one beef near the end...
Spoiler for Hiden:
It's pretty clear from the lack of a shell casing, smoke, etc. that Chuck didn't fire his gun. You'd think Sarah would pick up on that from her view, or that they'd just ask Chuck for the gun back to confirm the kill.
I'm pretty skeptical the show will get renewed, as the ratings remain flat, and I've read NBC plans to crank out quite a few new pilots for next season. It would probably need to run at least 2 more full seasons before qualifying for full syndication royalties, so I don't know if that would enter in the equation for NBC's decision-making.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Chuck fired his gun earlier - it hit the side of the train. He just didn't shoot the guy.

I REALLY don't like the way this storyline is going. I love the show and I know we're getting set up for one huge reset by the end of it but I really hate the changes that have happened.

I also hate that Morgan was nowhere to be found in last night's episode - nor was Awesome. Chuck really needed someone to talk to.

The subway product placement last night, while extremely excessive, was really well done. I laughed when they played that angelic music while showing the outside of the subway. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get my Tunaroni for lunch.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 02:38:55 PM by DragonFyre » Logged
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« Reply #539 on: March 23, 2010, 02:49:21 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on March 23, 2010, 01:54:44 PM

Chances are, the switch in emphasis probably drove away as many viewers as it attracted, which maybe accounts for ratings not really getting substantially better or worse. Optimists would probably say there's still more people watching via DVR, Hulu and NBC.com.

They are not substantially worse but the have been falling all season which isn't good. 

Quote
Date    Episode     Household Rating/Share    Live+SD 18-49 Rating    Live+SD Viewers (000)    Live+7 18-49  Rating    Live+7 Viewers (000)
January 10, 2010    Chuck vs. the Pink Slip    4.2/6    3.0    7,703       
January 10, 2010    Chuck vs. the Three Words    4.0/7    2.9    7,197       
January 10, 2010    Combined    4.1/7    2.9    7,450       
January 11, 2010    Chuck vs. the Angel de la Muerte    4.3/7    2.6    7,355       
January 18, 2010    Chuck vs. Operation Awesome    3.8/6    2.5    6,650       
January 25, 2010    Chuck vs. First Class    4.1/6    2.50    6,977    3.04    8,137
February 1, 2010    Chuck vs. the Nacho Sampler    3.9/6    2.44    6,732    2.97    7,818
February 8, 2010    Chuck vs. the Mask    3.9/6    2.23    6,596    2.75    7.790
March 1, 2010    Chuck vs. the Fake Name    4.0/6    2.43    6,701    3.00    7,894
March 8, 2010    Chuck vs. the Beard    3.8/6    2.3    6,367       
March 15, 2010    Chuck vs. the Tic Tac    3.6/6    1.9    5,849       

Link to actual article
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« Reply #540 on: March 23, 2010, 02:57:38 PM »

Quote from: DragonFyre on March 23, 2010, 02:23:03 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on March 23, 2010, 01:54:44 PM

I had one beef near the end...
Spoiler for Hiden:
It's pretty clear from the lack of a shell casing, smoke, etc. that Chuck didn't fire his gun. You'd think Sarah would pick up on that from her view, or that they'd just ask Chuck for the gun back to confirm the kill.
I'm pretty skeptical the show will get renewed, as the ratings remain flat, and I've read NBC plans to crank out quite a few new pilots for next season. It would probably need to run at least 2 more full seasons before qualifying for full syndication royalties, so I don't know if that would enter in the equation for NBC's decision-making.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Chuck fired his gun earlier - it hit the side of the train. He just didn't shoot the guy.

I REALLY don't like the way this storyline is going. I love the show and I know we're getting set up for one huge reset by the end of it but I really hate the changes that have happened.

I also hate that Morgan was nowhere to be found in last night's episode - nor was Awesome. Chuck really needed someone to talk to.

The subway product placement last night, while extremely excessive, was really well done. I laughed when they played that angelic music while showing the outside of the subway. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get my Tunaroni for lunch.
The little sparkly shine across the Subway sign with the music got me laughing.
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« Reply #541 on: March 23, 2010, 03:50:04 PM »

The episode was very hit and miss for me...  I liked the changes of scenery, changes of costume, shots in the hotel / spa, in the Subway, a *gasp* shot of Sarah working in the yogurt place...  seems they upped the budget for this episode.  I also saw flashes of the old Chuck and Sarah personalities, when they were on the stakeout, etc.  (which I'm sure was intentional).  I liked Chuck acting like a confident, intelligent person for once, that was a refreshing change from his depressing turn this season.  I hope that continues.

The ep felt very disjointed to me though... characters switching from one personality to a totally different one from one scene to the next.  Much of that is likely intentional, to show the coldness and distance of being a 'spy', but it always is very jarring and unrealistic to me.  Also, no Morgan, Ellie or Awesome at all sucked, and the Casey / Jeffster storyline seemed really pointless.  Wasn't so much funny as boring - just a way to eat up some time in the hour.

It was darker than a typical S1 or S2 storyline, but compared to much of this season I actually thought it had a good mix of dark and light heartedness.  Pretty decent episode, I think.  Really didn't like the last 10 minutes though.  Sarah should have noticed the mole was going for a gun, or Casey should have mentioned it to Chuck.  Sarah's reaction to what she thought Chuck did was ridiculous too - one minute you're leaning in for the kiss, next minute you are disgusted by the guy because you think (and didn't confirm) that he basically did the same thing you do regularly?  More inconsistency.  I don't think these writers know how to handle Sarah's emotions in a realistic fashion.
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« Reply #542 on: March 23, 2010, 05:47:14 PM »

Dear Spies:

When handed a secret note that reads "Someone is following us.  Meet in Room 7 immediately!" (or anything to that affect), please do not casually throw that note on the floor and walk away.

Sincerely,

The Bureau of Common Sense
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« Reply #543 on: March 23, 2010, 05:54:17 PM »

Quote from: Rowdy on March 23, 2010, 03:50:04 PM

Sarah's reaction to what she thought Chuck did was ridiculous too - one minute you're leaning in for the kiss, next minute you are disgusted by the guy because you think (and didn't confirm) that he basically did the same thing you do regularly?  More inconsistency.  I don't think these writers know how to handle Sarah's emotions in a realistic fashion.

Yeah I agree with you on the writing of Sarah's character - and her acting makes it that much more confusing.  Half the time I can't tell if she is humoring him, lying to him, mooning over him, feeling guilty about something or what.  I think the director just says ... look conflicted!  So she spends almost every scene looking that way.  I really love the actress but I'm wondering if the writing and/or directing is just making it really difficult for her.

I do think though that Sarah (the character) wasn't so much disgusted by him at the end as she was disappointed and guilty about really having (what she believed) fundamentally changing the really sweet guy that she presumably fell in love with.  So maybe more disgusted with herself would be more accurate?  I think that part was consistent.



P.S.  Chuck in (and out of) a towel!!!  thumbsup
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« Reply #544 on: March 23, 2010, 09:47:01 PM »

I don't think "realistic" and Chuck go together though.  icon_razz

Yeah, Chuck in a towel, in a steam room battle was fun, but not quite like Viggo Mortensen in Eastern Promises.  ninja2

I think the sad thing about some TV shows is that they just can't seem to keep a large writing staff together long enough to keep a rhythm. Most of my favorite Chuck episodes appear to have been written by people who aren't on the staff anymore. So I think that might have something to do with enjoying one or two episodes a lot, and then finding the next few to not have a good "feel" for the characters.
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« Reply #545 on: March 24, 2010, 12:54:32 AM »

This episode should have been called La Femme Chuck.

Overall, I liked it. Things are in place and pieces are moving. I agree with several of the comments, though - particularly the stuff about Sarah. Yvonne is a surprisingly good actress, but the powers that be don't seem to know quite how to handle things with Sarah right now. It was nice seeing how devastated she was knowing she was going to have to tell Chuck to wack the dude, but then it was pretty awful her reaction when she thought he went through with it. That just made no sense. Or I guess it kinda makes sense but not so quickly and cheaply played.
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« Reply #546 on: March 24, 2010, 01:04:42 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 23, 2010, 05:47:14 PM

Dear Spies:

When handed a secret note that reads "Someone is following us.  Meet in Room 7 immediately!" (or anything to that affect), please do not casually throw that note on the floor and walk away.

Sincerely,

The Bureau of Common Sense

LOL, I thought the same thing (In a roundabout way)
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« Reply #547 on: March 24, 2010, 01:32:44 AM »

i thought last night's episode was great...seems i'm in the minority though...
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« Reply #548 on: March 29, 2010, 07:54:36 PM »

interesting article on on SYFY regarding the direction Chuck has taken with comments from exec producer and co-creator Chirs Fedak.  Heres how he explains the choices Chuck has made  "Fedak likens Chuck's journey to that of Superman. "It is one of those situations where it is the hero's choice. It is like Clark Kent could be just a reporter who has fallen in love with Lois Lane, and they could have a life together. There's nothing stopping him from doing that but the call to be a hero. For Chuck, we've realized from last season that he feels that call in the sense that this is the family business. He father was a great man. He feels like he can actually make a difference in the world, like he can actually change the world, and so that's put him, like, in a natural collision course with all people who have, like, these heroic intentions with their personal life, with the things that just everybody wants out in the regular world," said Fedak."

heres a link to the full article.  http://scifiwire.com/2010/03/big-ass-developments-will.php

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« Reply #549 on: March 30, 2010, 04:11:53 AM »

tonight's episode was absolutely fantastic...a near perfect mix of fun and serious moments.  while there was a ton of plot development around Chuck, Sarah, Shaw, and The Ring, they also managed to work in a lot of really great time with the supporting cast.  personally, i've really enjoyed all of this season's episodes, but i think tonight was one of their best.  as for next week...holy crap what a twist!
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« Reply #550 on: March 30, 2010, 05:14:39 AM »

Great ep! Used the entire cast, lots of scenery, good plot (and totally unexpected twist!), happy Sarah and confident Chuck...  much, much better.  This last mini-arc looks like it might be great!
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« Reply #551 on: March 30, 2010, 01:32:02 PM »

This week's episode was probably the one I have hated the least of this season.  I guess that isn't saying much but it was certainly better than anything else they have done.  Perhaps because characters actually talked to each other instead of just looking hurt and then getting cut off or something.  Also it was the most we have seen of the supporting cast in a long time.  And Jeff and Lester were just weird - not creepy or sleazy like they have been in a couple episodes this season.   

I still think it is a pretty lame plot/story with Shaw but at least it will be over next week!
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« Reply #552 on: March 30, 2010, 03:53:28 PM »

Excellent episode. There are not many shows out there that can surprise me, but that was a twist I did not see coming!
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« Reply #553 on: March 30, 2010, 04:37:42 PM »

I am still trying to figure out the time line to see if it makes sense.  How long has Sarah been a spy?  I thought Shaw's wife died fairly recently but I thought she had been a spy for awhile...
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cheeba
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« Reply #554 on: March 30, 2010, 06:57:35 PM »

Quote from: farley2k on March 30, 2010, 04:37:42 PM

I am still trying to figure out the time line to see if it makes sense.  How long has Sarah been a spy?  I thought Shaw's wife died fairly recently but I thought she had been a spy for awhile...

Just looked back on it. At the end of the airplane episode, Shaw tells Sarah that his wife died 5 years ago. So Sarah would have been a spy for 2 years before she met with Chuck.
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farley2k
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« Reply #555 on: March 30, 2010, 07:04:53 PM »

That works out pretty evenly then.  Now they just need to explain how his flashing told him exactly which buttons to push on the soda machine to get it to take him down.
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« Reply #556 on: March 30, 2010, 08:03:42 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on March 30, 2010, 03:53:28 PM

Excellent episode. There are not many shows out there that can surprise me, but that was a twist I did not see coming!
Wait until you find out Sarah's a man, baaaaby!

Oh Crap. I Spoiled the Crying Game reveal...  icon_eek

While I enjoyed the episode, I'm a little tired of Brandon Routh-as-Tom Cruise. I do hope his "arc" as guest is over soon. Perhaps he can parlay it into his own show some time (as the actor who played Bryce Larkin was able to over on USA channel).

I sensed that if they had just let Chuck and Sarah run off to Rome, that would've been a nice way to end the series, just running through the airport to their plane. Maybe they should keep that scene in mind if NBC gives them enough advance notice on pulling the plug (they're planning for this year's season ender to be strictly just that, not a series ender), at some point.
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« Reply #557 on: March 30, 2010, 08:50:15 PM »

Quote from: disarm on March 30, 2010, 04:11:53 AM

tonight's episode was absolutely fantastic...a near perfect mix of fun and serious moments.  while there was a ton of plot development around Chuck, Sarah, Shaw, and The Ring, they also managed to work in a lot of really great time with the supporting cast.  personally, i've really enjoyed all of this season's episodes, but i think tonight was one of their best.  as for next week...holy crap what a twist!

Ditto to everything above!!!! 

Comedically, I could not get enough of the "he really fills those slacks" comments!!  And the "it should be lively" comment.  There's got to be a couple of gay writers on the team.  What was the other word they kept using to describe him? 
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Turtle
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« Reply #558 on: March 31, 2010, 07:27:35 AM »

Great episode, and they're slowly slipping back into more comedy.  I also like how the whole gang is more involved in this episode, especially now that more people know.

My predictions for Shaw and the show:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Shaw drags Sarah out into the desert, but doesn't kill her, he'll be pissed off as all heck, but he knows the real people that killed his wife was the Ring who gave the order.  Instead, he'll fake killing Sarah in order to appear he's gone rogue, allowing him to join the ring with less suspicion.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #559 on: March 31, 2010, 02:49:37 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on March 31, 2010, 07:27:35 AM

My predictions for Shaw and the show:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Shaw drags Sarah out into the desert, but doesn't kill her, he'll be pissed off as all heck, but he knows the real people that killed his wife was the Ring who gave the order.  Instead, he'll fake killing Sarah in order to appear he's gone rogue, allowing him to join the ring with less suspicion.

I'd rather see 
Spoiler for Hiden:
Shaw actually get to the point of being about to kill Sarah and have Chuck put a slug in him.  What better way could Chuck truly pass his red test and prove how deep his feelings are for Sarah?
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