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Author Topic: Case Closed: Illegal Immigration Is a Threat to Homeland Security  (Read 2033 times)
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corruptrelic
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« on: May 08, 2007, 10:44:43 PM »

In response to the plot to attack Fort Dix today (3 of the arrested were illegal aliens):

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"Today we found out once again that our failure to control illegal immigration and our inability to manage the current caseload of people applying for immigration benefits poses a lethal risk to the nation," said Dan Stein, president of FAIR. "After years of denying the obvious -- that terrorists can and will take advantage of the same unenforced immigration policies that have flooded this country with illegal immigrants -- we now have irrefutable proof that the terrorists understand where we are vulnerable. We can be certain that there are many more terrorists who entered the country illegally or overstayed visas, and we may not be as lucky next time."

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,102681.shtml
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2007, 10:57:18 PM »

Honestly I don't see a a problem with that statement.

It *is* a threat. If it's easy to sneak in then it's easy to sneak in for everyone, not just good people.
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2007, 11:44:14 PM »

I think the real threat here is not hiring enough people to do data processing.

BTW... hmm... 3 people attacked Fort Dix... joke in there somewhere...
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2007, 11:44:34 PM »

Illegal immigration is a national security problem, we for whatever reason have not treated it that way, but we need to start doing so.
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2007, 11:46:01 PM »

Well, as long as we engage them in foreign territories they can't follow us home, right?  Right? 
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2007, 12:11:06 AM »

Case closed: Everyone is a threat to homeland security.


Tim McVeigh, Ho Dong Suk or whatever that kid who shot up VT was, Unibomber, etc.

In other news: The sky is blue.


Were the guys who flew into the trade centers here illegally?  Seriously, I'd like to know as I don't.


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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2007, 12:50:12 AM »

I say we irradiate all of the states that are on the border.  It's the only way to be sure.
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2007, 01:00:44 AM »

Or we could just do more to secure the borders (such as funding and building the fence that was already voted in) to stop illegals from entering the country in the first place.
Something like 40,000 illegals were apprehended last month, and the border patrol admits that many more probably got through.

Unfortunately it's going to take more acts of terrorism like this before Bush (and other open borders politicians) realize that amnesty is NOT the answer to the problem.

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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2007, 01:55:23 AM »

Quote from: ATB on May 09, 2007, 12:11:06 AM


Were the guys who flew into the trade centers here illegally?  Seriously, I'd like to know as I don't.

I seem to recall they were all here on student visas.  They all were Arabians, and all through from there.

Let's see... Osama bin Laden was an Arabian as well.  His family has ties to the Saudi royal family.  I'm sensing a theme here, and it isn't Iraq.


Honestly, America has gotten by fine for over two hundred years without building walls around it and tattooing a citizen number on every person.  I think we can make it just fine for another two hundred without it.

Solving immigration is easy.  Enforce the already existing labor laws, and stop the government from continuously destroying labor unions.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 01:58:58 AM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2007, 02:29:04 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on May 09, 2007, 12:50:12 AM

I say we irradiate all of the states that are on the border.  It's the only way to be sure.

Louisiana gets my vote.
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2007, 12:51:05 PM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on May 09, 2007, 02:29:04 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on May 09, 2007, 12:50:12 AM

I say we irradiate all of the states that are on the border.  It's the only way to be sure.

Louisiana gets my vote.

My guess is that Texas gets more votes that Louisiana.
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 12:00:16 AM »

Quote from: corruptrelic on May 08, 2007, 10:44:43 PM

And two were legal aliens, and one was a CITIZEN. It ain't always from outside, and it's not our laws that caused it. Maybe next time they'll listen when it is said that a dignitary has no foriegn policy.
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2007, 12:13:06 AM »

Quote from: Poleaxe on May 09, 2007, 12:51:05 PM

Quote from: whiteboyskim on May 09, 2007, 02:29:04 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on May 09, 2007, 12:50:12 AM

I say we irradiate all of the states that are on the border.  It's the only way to be sure.

Louisiana gets my vote.

My guess is that Texas gets more votes that Louisiana.

NVM.
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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2007, 12:24:33 AM »

One thing I found interesting about the case was how at no time were any of the "necessary powers" granted by the Patriot Act required.  I guess an amazing number of cases can be solved simply through good investigating.


In other news, the narcoterrorist Luis Posada Carriles had his case dismissed from court.  He is a free man, so in one case it's proven how little the executive branch cares about either illegal immigration or terrorism.  Heck, the guy is a known terrorist... now living INSIDE the USA... and here illegally.
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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2007, 01:55:19 AM »

Quote from: corruptrelic on May 09, 2007, 01:00:44 AM

Or we could just do more to secure the borders (such as funding and building the fence that was already voted in) to stop illegals from entering the country in the first place.
Something like 40,000 illegals were apprehended last month, and the border patrol admits that many more probably got through.

Unfortunately it's going to take more acts of terrorism like this before Bush (and other open borders politicians) realize that amnesty is NOT the answer to the problem.




I really dont get this fence thing...When I was in high school they built a fence around the campus so we would stop going out to the fast food restaurants, for lunch with in 12 hours of its completion there were hole on every side.
Of course the fence was to really keep up the people that was not to be on campus and to control the pregnancy rate because some people was getting a different kind of filling during lunch time. 
Good ole high school. errr yeah so fence....waste of money and time. unless it is electric.
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« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2007, 03:26:39 AM »

I think doing something about illegal immigration is all talk.

I know illegals get welfare using fake/stolen SS, at least in my state. If the government cared they could easily bust these people since they have their name and address information (address is right since mail gets delivered to the people). Seems like it would be easy to take the peoples' info then send it off for investigation. Maybe there is some strange privacy law that prevents the info from being shared with some enforcement agency, but to me its seems like it should be when the SS and name info don't match and appear to be stolen, which leads one to believe the person is here illegally or at least breaking a law by using someone else's information.
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« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2007, 03:35:22 AM »

Quote from: corruptrelic on May 09, 2007, 01:00:44 AM

Or we could just do more to secure the borders (such as funding and building the fence that was already voted in) to stop illegals from entering the country in the first place.
Something like 40,000 illegals were apprehended last month, and the border patrol admits that many more probably got through.

Ahem.

Quote
Six people have been arrested in a plot to fire grenades and kill scores of soldiers at a New Jersey Army installation, the United States attorney’s office in New Jersey said at a news conference today. Four of them were born in the former Yugoslavia, one was born in Turkey and one in Jordan, said a spokesman for the office, Greg Reinert.

Just a pre-emptive strike in case this was going to turn into a "Mexicans are bad" thread.

But as long as we're talking about borders or fences, how come no one ever talks about building a fence between Canada and the US?
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2007, 03:41:10 AM »

Quote from: noun on May 10, 2007, 03:35:22 AM

But as long as we're talking about borders or fences, how come no one ever talks about building a fence between Canada and the US?

Right - if the concern were truly "international terrorists!!!", then we'd be constructing a massive concrete barrier between Vancouver and Blaine.  They can't seem to stop Hells Angels from bringing BC Bud across the border; what if those same fun-loving Canadians decided that they need to take up arms in guerilla conflicts against their southern neighbor?

I just know Purge is willing to force extra "u"s into my words by force of arms.
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2007, 04:42:17 AM »

Quote from: noun on May 10, 2007, 03:35:22 AM


Just a pre-emptive strike in case this was going to turn into a "Mexicans are bad" thread.

I am humbled by your thoughtfulness!

Quote from: noun on May 10, 2007, 03:35:22 AM

But as long as we're talking about borders or fences, how come no one ever talks about building a fence between Canada and the US?

Because talking about it will draw attention to it. Attention that the people who are currently building said fence don't want.

Oops, nevermind.
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2007, 03:24:49 PM »

Before I get into this, I want to make perfectly clear a few facts.

North is considered "above" south.

The fences can be put in for the wrong reasons, and it will still be effective.
1) Mexicans can't float up into US.
2) US citizens, when the next draft hits, can't float up into Canada.

See? it's a Win/Win situation.
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2007, 03:53:46 PM »

Well, we better fence the coastlines in as well.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who finds this ridiculous.
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2007, 03:57:21 PM »

Quote from: noun on May 10, 2007, 03:53:46 PM

Well, we better fence the coastlines in as well.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who finds this ridiculous.

Fencing isn't cost-effective.  Better to use dolphins with radios and stun guns designed for their cute little flippers.

You're not the only one.
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2007, 04:00:22 PM »

We should implant all legal US citizens with a chip that sends out a radio signal, and then unleash an army of robotic drones that eliminates (or captures and detains if we want to be nice) any human that doesn't broadcast the signal.   icon_twisted
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2007, 04:06:43 PM »

I like sharks with lasers.

Or better yet, a bear holding a shark.
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2007, 04:07:50 PM »

Just post a giant picture of Tubgirl on the borders.  That'd keep them out.  Crowley could do it.
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2007, 04:12:36 PM »

Quote from: warning on May 10, 2007, 04:07:50 PM

Just post a giant picture of Tubgirl on the borders.  That'd keep them out.  Crowley could do it.

meh, they got worse in Tijuana.
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2007, 05:35:26 PM »

Quote from: javahead on May 10, 2007, 12:00:16 AM

Quote from: corruptrelic on May 08, 2007, 10:44:43 PM

And two were legal aliens, and one was a CITIZEN.

PWNT.
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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2007, 08:25:15 PM »

Hardly. The article clearly states (as did I) the status of the suspects. Three of them were illegals.
If we had it your way, we mine as well just do away with border security and let everyone in.

Quote
Three of the men arrested in New Jersey today were illegal aliens, while two of their comrades were green card holders, meaning that the government had investigated their backgrounds and failed to identify them as threats to homeland security. The facts of this case demand that Congress end all discussion of an amnesty or a "pathway to legalization" and focus instead on their primary responsibility of protecting the security of the American people, demanded FAIR.
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« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2007, 09:28:16 PM »

Quote from: corruptrelic on May 10, 2007, 08:25:15 PM

Hardly. The article clearly states (as did I) the status of the suspects. Three of them were illegals.
If we had it your way, we mine as well just do away with border security and let everyone in.

Quote
Three of the men arrested in New Jersey today were illegal aliens, while two of their comrades were green card holders, meaning that the government had investigated their backgrounds and failed to identify them as threats to homeland security. The facts of this case demand that Congress end all discussion of an amnesty or a "pathway to legalization" and focus instead on their primary responsibility of protecting the security of the American people, demanded FAIR.


Cause that's what I advocate.
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2007, 09:42:07 PM »

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2007, 09:28:16 PM

Quote from: corruptrelic on May 10, 2007, 08:25:15 PM

Hardly. The article clearly states (as did I) the status of the suspects. Three of them were illegals.
If we had it your way, we mine as well just do away with border security and let everyone in.

Quote
Three of the men arrested in New Jersey today were illegal aliens, while two of their comrades were green card holders, meaning that the government had investigated their backgrounds and failed to identify them as threats to homeland security. The facts of this case demand that Congress end all discussion of an amnesty or a "pathway to legalization" and focus instead on their primary responsibility of protecting the security of the American people, demanded FAIR.




Cause that's what I advocate.



I agree that we have to do whatever is necessary to tighten border security (including machine gun nests and mine fields). But you need to understand that amnesty is coming. The cost and bureaucracy needed to detain and house millions is just prohibitive. The end result would likely be a humanitarian nightmare that we don't want to be associated with. They're here and they are staying- and really we need them here anyway.
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« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2007, 12:41:27 AM »

Quote from: Poleaxe on May 10, 2007, 09:42:07 PM

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2007, 09:28:16 PM

Quote from: corruptrelic on May 10, 2007, 08:25:15 PM

Hardly. The article clearly states (as did I) the status of the suspects. Three of them were illegals.
If we had it your way, we mine as well just do away with border security and let everyone in.

Quote
Three of the men arrested in New Jersey today were illegal aliens, while two of their comrades were green card holders, meaning that the government had investigated their backgrounds and failed to identify them as threats to homeland security. The facts of this case demand that Congress end all discussion of an amnesty or a "pathway to legalization" and focus instead on their primary responsibility of protecting the security of the American people, demanded FAIR.




Cause that's what I advocate.



I agree that we have to do whatever is necessary to tighten border security (including machine gun nests and mine fields). But you need to understand that amnesty is coming. The cost and bureaucracy needed to detain and house millions is just prohibitive. The end result would likely be a humanitarian nightmare that we don't want to be associated with. They're here and they are staying- and really we need them here anyway.

Its just hard to accept that we will be basically rewarding them for breaking the law, you are most likely right that amnesty is inevitable, but its really hard to accept.    And if we dont do as you said and strengthen border security by a massive amount at the same time, an amnesty will just invite even more illegals, who will then wait for the next amnesty.
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« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2007, 03:28:29 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on May 11, 2007, 12:41:27 AM

Its just hard to accept that we will be basically rewarding them for breaking the law, you are most likely right that amnesty is inevitable, but its really hard to accept.    And if we dont do as you said and strengthen border security by a massive amount at the same time, an amnesty will just invite even more illegals, who will then wait for the next amnesty.

Rewarded?  You have a pretty interesting opinion of their lot in life.  They are hardly going to be anointed the lord and masters of all existence.  Any "reward" will simply gain the same opportunity in life a majority of Americans take for granted.

My great grandparents didn't have to go through any bullshit to get here other than registering at Ellis Island.  Anyone else should be given the same chance, free of bullshit.
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« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2007, 05:06:41 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on May 11, 2007, 03:28:29 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on May 11, 2007, 12:41:27 AM

Its just hard to accept that we will be basically rewarding them for breaking the law, you are most likely right that amnesty is inevitable, but its really hard to accept.    And if we dont do as you said and strengthen border security by a massive amount at the same time, an amnesty will just invite even more illegals, who will then wait for the next amnesty.

Rewarded?  You have a pretty interesting opinion of their lot in life.  They are hardly going to be anointed the lord and masters of all existence.  Any "reward" will simply gain the same opportunity in life a majority of Americans take for granted.

My great grandparents didn't have to go through any bullshit to get here other than registering at Ellis Island.  Anyone else should be given the same chance, free of bullshit.

Yes but they actually followed the immigration laws of their time and DID go through the actual immigration process first.   They didnt knowingly feel the laws shouldnt apply to them and just sneak in.

So yes amnesty is rewarding someone for knowingly breaking the laws.   As a nation we have the right to determine how people should enter our country.   If you dont like those rules DONT COME HERE.   But if you do, dont whine about how those laws you are knowingly breaking affect you in some negative way.
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« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2007, 01:41:23 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on May 11, 2007, 05:06:41 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on May 11, 2007, 03:28:29 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on May 11, 2007, 12:41:27 AM

Its just hard to accept that we will be basically rewarding them for breaking the law, you are most likely right that amnesty is inevitable, but its really hard to accept.    And if we dont do as you said and strengthen border security by a massive amount at the same time, an amnesty will just invite even more illegals, who will then wait for the next amnesty.

Rewarded?  You have a pretty interesting opinion of their lot in life.  They are hardly going to be anointed the lord and masters of all existence.  Any "reward" will simply gain the same opportunity in life a majority of Americans take for granted.

My great grandparents didn't have to go through any bullshit to get here other than registering at Ellis Island.  Anyone else should be given the same chance, free of bullshit.

Yes but they actually followed the immigration laws of their time and DID go through the actual immigration process first.   They didnt knowingly feel the laws shouldnt apply to them and just sneak in.

So yes amnesty is rewarding someone for knowingly breaking the laws.   As a nation we have the right to determine how people should enter our country.   If you dont like those rules DONT COME HERE.   But if you do, dont whine about how those laws you are knowingly breaking affect you in some negative way.

am·nes·ty      noun, plural -ties, verb, -tied, -ty·ing.
–noun 1. a general pardon for offenses, esp. political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction. 
2. Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, esp. to a class of persons as a whole. 
3. a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense. 
–verb (used with object) 4. to grant amnesty to; pardon. 


It must be rough, getting your opinion totally pwned by a dictionary passage.  I don't see "reward" anywhere in that definition.

It's also amusing how the same people who go all law & order on immigrants are almost always the same ones saying the president shouldn't really be held accountable to our nation's laws.  It seems following the law is only required for poor and/or brown people.  I have no idea of that is the case with anyone here, it's just a general observation.
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« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2007, 02:14:22 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on May 11, 2007, 01:41:23 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on May 11, 2007, 05:06:41 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on May 11, 2007, 03:28:29 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on May 11, 2007, 12:41:27 AM

Its just hard to accept that we will be basically rewarding them for breaking the law, you are most likely right that amnesty is inevitable, but its really hard to accept.    And if we dont do as you said and strengthen border security by a massive amount at the same time, an amnesty will just invite even more illegals, who will then wait for the next amnesty.

Rewarded?  You have a pretty interesting opinion of their lot in life.  They are hardly going to be anointed the lord and masters of all existence.  Any "reward" will simply gain the same opportunity in life a majority of Americans take for granted.

My great grandparents didn't have to go through any bullshit to get here other than registering at Ellis Island.  Anyone else should be given the same chance, free of bullshit.

Yes but they actually followed the immigration laws of their time and DID go through the actual immigration process first.   They didnt knowingly feel the laws shouldnt apply to them and just sneak in.

So yes amnesty is rewarding someone for knowingly breaking the laws.   As a nation we have the right to determine how people should enter our country.   If you dont like those rules DONT COME HERE.   But if you do, dont whine about how those laws you are knowingly breaking affect you in some negative way.

am·nes·ty      noun, plural -ties, verb, -tied, -ty·ing.
–noun 1. a general pardon for offenses, esp. political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction. 
2. Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, esp. to a class of persons as a whole. 
3. a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense. 
–verb (used with object) 4. to grant amnesty to; pardon. 


It must be rough, getting your opinion totally pwned by a dictionary passage.  I don't see "reward" anywhere in that definition.

It's also amusing how the same people who go all law & order on immigrants are almost always the same ones saying the president shouldn't really be held accountable to our nation's laws.  It seems following the law is only required for poor and/or brown people.  I have no idea of that is the case with anyone here, it's just a general observation.

The amnesty again is a reward in this way, the people who have been better criminals and have managed not to get caught, get the reward of legal status.   Those who were not as good of criminals and got caught, were deported.   Not all that hard to understand.   

And it isnt a race issue, I dont care what race or nationality illegals are.  That has nothing to do with the issue for me.

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« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2007, 08:31:27 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on May 11, 2007, 02:14:22 PM

The amnesty again is a reward in this way, the people who have been better criminals and have managed not to get caught, get the reward of legal status.   Those who were not as good of criminals and got caught, were deported.   Not all that hard to understand.   

And it isnt a race issue, I dont care what race or nationality illegals are.  That has nothing to do with the issue for me.

When you start cracking down just as hard on anyone else breaking the law... since this particular crime isn't even a felony... I'll start considering whether this is a valid point.

But since I'm assuming you aren't starting a crusade against jaywalking, speeding, and littering, I'll just take a pass on the rest of our conversation.
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« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2007, 08:42:38 PM »

http://digg.com/videos/educational/Penn_Teller_Bullshit_on_Immigration
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Kurt Stevens
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« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2007, 06:31:19 PM »

While I agree that border security needs to be better, a fence doesnt seem the best way to do this. The number of border patrol agents that would be required would be insane and people would still get in. I'm more for a better system of granting work visas for people who want to come to the US and work. Streamline the process and make it easier.  After this is done, deport anyone who doesnt go through the process and gets caught.  Of course if we fined the hell out of US companies who were employing illegals, that would probably solve the problem too. Everyone is too scared of the effect on the economy to actually do that though.
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