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Author Topic: Capt. America back from the dead...  (Read 2870 times)
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Blackjack
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« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2007, 10:40:30 PM »

I think part of the reason the death of Phoenix in X-Men, Gwen Stacey in Spider-Man, and the death of the "real" Flash (Barry Gordon) had some real emotional impact is that they were Really Dead (their demises seemed organic to continuing storylines) and it wasn't a cheap temporary trick to try to drum up sales. Too many other times I've seen the big comic companies do a big "death of" simply as a cheap publicity stunt, or to get rid of a character fans never gained an affinity for (the "2nd" Robin, whose name escapes me) rather than do the hard work necessary to make the character appealing.

As for Cap, I say this as someone who subscribed to the comic for many years in the 1980s and who wanted to name his shield-skills focused character in Titan Quest "Steve Rogers."  ninja2

For me, that was part of my problem with NBC's "Heroes" this season (which even the creator admits is a mess this year), because last year's season ender suggested two characters really had sacrificed their lives to save New York City. I was actually haunted by the ending of season 1. And episode 1 this season it's like, "No! Ha, ha on you! It was just a cheap season ending stunt!" It was like "Bobby in the shower" in Dallas fercrissakes. I stopped watching after that.  icon_evil
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 10:42:44 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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Turtle
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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2007, 12:14:02 AM »

Could be DC testing how well a new batch of heroes would do considering the waning popularity of their core cast.

Well, the thing about Heroes is that we all knew Peter would survive since he could regenerate.

I'm fine with someone else stepping up and taking captain america's place, but please, let them keep Steve Rogers dead.
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« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2007, 12:55:58 AM »

well, I read the first 2 issues of the Batman event I mentioned above.  holy cow I'm lost.  Batman has a son?  WTF happened to Robins costume?  time to look at some wiki's......
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« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2007, 07:20:23 AM »

I think Batman had a son with Talia Al'Ghul (spelling?).  I forget the name, Ibn something, translates to "son of the bat", I believe.  Also, I think she has been "infinity crisis'ed" out, but at one time The Huntress was his daughter by way of, who else?  Selena Kyle, aka Catwoman.

As for Robin, are you talking about his Nightwing outfit?  That's pretty old.  He's been pretty much since the Titans (Teen Titans too, I think).


Also, unless someone is actually reading the comics and seeing how the stories are going, their opinion on whether Cap is "really" dead or not (and whether he should "stay dead") aren't really relevant.  I'm not being insulting, it's just that a story is actually unfolding, and (IMO) his eventual return is already planned out.  I think it's disingenuous to call it simply a stunt, and opinions from non-readers are exactly suggestions from disinterested parties.  After all, stories need to have plot twists, climaxes, etc.  I'd much rather have the stories written for the readers than the non-readers.

If they wanted to just slap it together as a stunt, why have the explanations already there?  They could have just had him get hit by a falling piano, and just magically appear later and explain it away somehow.  Honestly, as much as I liked the whole thing, I found the death of Superman to be kind of a stunt.  It had really good writing, especially in the issues showing how everyone dealt with the emotions of it... but they really didn't plan out how he would come back too well.

Anyway, I think he's NOT dead, and the appearance of his being so is very possibly a betrayal by someone who was once his friend.  That's pretty serious stuff, and IMO a pretty interesting plot-line to follow.

That kind of touches on another reason I like the Civil War storyline so much: it's showing a different side to the characters.  Personally, I really have reasons to dislike a whole bunch of "heroes" now, simply because of things they have done.  So while I used to think Reed Richards was just kind of a weenie before, now I think he's kind of a real dickwad who wants to force his point of view on everyone else.  And even some characters I may have liked, perhaps didn't hold the attitudes I thought they would.

So IMO it's all pretty good writing for an interesting story.  If "killing off" an iconic character draws people in and gets them to read that story, that seems like a good thing, especially if they have plans for his future return already worked out.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 07:36:25 AM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2007, 08:06:19 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on November 13, 2007, 07:20:23 AM

As for Robin, are you talking about his Nightwing outfit?  That's pretty old.  He's been pretty much since the Titans (Teen Titans too, I think).

nah, not Nightwing but Tim's current costume.  Apparently at some point they ditched the classic form and now it's red/gold/black as opposed to the red/yellow/green of old.

New costume:



Old costume:

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« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2007, 03:21:21 PM »

Didn't he have one with Chainmail for a while?

Carrie Kelley is my favorite Robin, though.
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« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2007, 03:35:06 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on November 13, 2007, 03:21:21 PM

Didn't he have one with Chainmail for a while?

I think he did around the time the Robin comic book launched.  man, looking over the DC wiki's there's alot of stuff I missed out on.  A female Robin and Lex Luthor as president?  I think I need to pay a visit to Amazon.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 04:18:58 PM by CeeKay » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2007, 03:47:14 PM »

Carrie Kelley was only Robin in "The Dark Knight Returns" (which is, incidentally, the best Batman story ever).  That's pretty much a Batman must-own.  Two other DC books I highly recommend are JLA One Million and Superman: Red Son.  Somewhat amusing is that all of them are considered non-canonical (while the incredibly stupid story "The Killing Joke" actually was canonical.  Oh well).

The Lex Luthor as president thing has been around for a while.  I'm still not sure whether the "official" story is if he was ever president.  I can't blame DC for wanting to reboot everything- so much of their storylines end up sounding like something created by a bi-polar kid with ADD.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 03:49:44 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2007, 04:25:18 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on November 13, 2007, 03:47:14 PM

Carrie Kelley was only Robin in "The Dark Knight Returns" (which is, incidentally, the best Batman story ever).  That's pretty much a Batman must-own.  Two other DC books I highly recommend are JLA One Million and Superman: Red Son.  Somewhat amusing is that all of them are considered non-canonical (while the incredibly stupid story "The Killing Joke" actually was canonical.  Oh well).

Apparently there was another female robin for awhile.
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